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Lurker Well, I for one agree completely with Vera - and there are many others who do as well. We cannot relax as long as the Bush family continues to use their money, connections and family name to steamroll over democracy and the Constitution. If w

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  • #16
    Lurker
    If you really like to have decent conversation I am open to learn, I ask you take the time to go though this post and go to these places and give me your thoughts on what is happening in this country. Read with an open mind, you said I like factual articles, that's a must to make up a fair and just opinion , based on FACTS not emotion. Anybody else that wants to really look at this stuff and have a decent conversation I am open, but attack and then it just gets nasty. I am an activist on this issue, that's the way it works in this country, that's how you make change here, not forcing you will upon others when you have no legal standing to do so, that will only make hard feeling and when we see you trying to beat the system you are beating every citizens in this country that some day you hope to be here legal, well then the shoe will be on your foot and your Childs foot, think about that, if you bend our laws now you have no right to complain later when it is done to you. When does it end????.


    you cannot buy the tolerance, understanding, empathy, openmindedness and compassion our city kids learn along with their ABCs.

    .
    How can you be any of these when what you have spent 105 years combined( between Dad and Son) and these values have been taken from you by those that do not think of these values, nor were raised with them, they didn't have time to learn these values, Mexico is very corrupt, you take when you can or you go with out, this is not slam to them it is just a fact , you do not know the HATE that comes with SOME of these folks, if any one you know is honest about it they will tell you of the Radical Element that thinks we stole this land (Calif) and they are here to take it back, Why else would they come to just the western states and crowd in here like this? Read these and tell me what you think I am open minded But????


    http://americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html
    From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny

    http://americanpatrol.com/MALDEF/FOR...ITZMALDEF.html
    We are sued at every step of the way here, do you think this is the right thing to do?is this what legal folks do that want to help build this nation so we all have a better life??? Is this the immigration that built this country? They spend billions trying to disrupt this country ,why not spend it helping their people, it looks as that is our job to pay for this, what do you think???


    What did you think of the car sticker ?Did you look at that picture ? Why would any one put that on there car here? What good could come of it ?.What kind of person would do that, how about some pointy head idiot like the KKK, but you accused me/us citizens of being Raciest, I / we are just trying to survive this??? Strong tone, well back an animal into a corner what do you except?105 years is down the toilet, why? because folks decide for me , I didn˜t decide for them in Mexico , we have no say their, they decide my fate against our laws , our Constitution and our proud immigration history, but it was not this kind of immigration that built what you see today, they send the money made here to other countries further hurting our country, are they here to make this country great, don't think so , actions speak louder then words.

    California has become much more ethnically diverse than the United States as
    a whole.
    In 1970, minorities made up roughly 20 percent of the population in both Cali-fornia
    and the United States as a whole (see Figure 3.4). In 1990, minorities
    were around 25 percent of the U.S. population but were approaching 50 percent
    of California's. Hispanics alone constituted about the same percentage of Cali-fornia's
    population that all minorities constituted for the entire nation: 25 per-cent.
    And about half of California's increase in Hispanics and most of its in-crease
    in Asians was the direct result of immigration.
    The Short Story
    Immigration has made Californians much different from what they were in the
    1960s and much different from what they would have become had there been
    no immigrants. Indeed, even if immigration into California were to stop, its
    impact would continue to be felt for many generations.

    I do not disagree that issues of poverty and overcrowdedness are a challenge for any community that is burdened with them. I do not want to make light of your issues. It is the sweeping generalizations and strong tone of hate in most of your posts that cause others here to want to argue with you.

    There is no sweeping generalization, I can back everything with the facts, you do not understand what is going on out west here, you see very little of the impact, imagine 50% of your Minneapolis invaded not by legal immigrates, but illegal folks, big defiance in the way they act, a legal immigrate can be deported for spitting on the side walk, those that come illegal have northing to loose, they are deportable the minute they enter this country, HA HA right, but suppose to be any way. Read the above statement again, (California has become much more ethnically diverse than the United States as
    a whole).
    diversity, that came and went long ago here.

    If I come and break into your house with my 4 kids and expect you to pay for my illegal presence, Medical care, food stamps schools ETC..., what would you do ? Welcome me ????or call the cops?


    This is a good site for issues and intelligent views on them Pro/Con
    ["Immigration: Is Exclusion Just?" this was a live link , you can search the site for it. it's a good article, I understand where some of this thinking comes from when they say there are no borders, but that is not reality for the world nor can it be...
    http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publicatio...rs_editor.html
    Issues in Ethics - V. 7, N. 3 Fall 1996

    In this issue
    Letters to the Editor
    Immigration Threatens California
    I cannot let the commentary on immigration ethics and policy ["Immigration: Is Exclusion Just?" by Manuel Velasquez, Spring 1996] go unaddressed. As a demographer and second-generation Californian, I have found myself professionally enmeshed in this area as an offshoot of my interest in environmental protection and sustainability and a commitment to a certain quality of life for this and successive generations.
    Such prominent ecologists as David Pimentel of Cornell University and Paul Ehrlich of Stanford University argue that the maximum sustainable population for the United States is 150 million and for California, 10 million -- levels last seen in 1950.
    Births in a low-mortality, stationary population of 10 million would be about 140,000 a year. In 1970, California had 360,000 births -- 325,000 to native-born women. In 1992, it had 600,000 births -- 334,000 to native-born women and 161,000 to Mexican-born women. Half the latter had not gone beyond grade school, which (according to a large number of well-designed studies) presages low educational achievement for their children, the antithesis of the requirements of a postindustrial society.
    Within a few years, as the baby boomers complete childbearing, the sole source of U.S. population growth will be post-1970 immigrants and, demographically more important, their offspring. Given the vastly disproportionate resource consumption per American, I argue that reducing, not adding to, the U.S. population should be a prime concern for everyone in the world, including the citizens of third world countries.
    B. Meredith Burke
    Palo Alto, Calif.
    #
    Close the Back Door
    I am writing as a descendant of legal immigrants and the husband of a woman whose parents were legal immigrants from Ireland. I do not oppose immigration; I am a product of it. But it is important to distinguish between legal and illegal immigration, which Velasquez fails to do.
    Theodore Hesburgh, CSC, former president of the University of Notre Dame, was a member of a national commission to reform U.S. immigration policy. He said the United States must "close the back door" to illegal immigration if it wants to keep the "front door" open to legal immigrants. Over the years, this country has developed what is probably the most generous, compassionate, and humane immigration policy of any major nation. Martin Cook's quotation ["Martin Cook Replies," Spring 1996] that the United States is a "nation with the soul of a church" is to the point.
    But even churches require their members to conform to certain beliefs and rules to remain in good standing. There is every justification for nations to expect the same of immigrants.
    Watt B. Clinch
    Roseville, Calif.



    Calif has been mis-managed for sure, that's why the recall, we sure did not need the finial coffin nails hammered in by illegals, I have posted the facts, its not all the fault of illegals never said it was, but think about this 40% of the budget just like in most states is for education

    Twenty-eight percent of all workers in Los Angeles County are paid in cash as part of an underground economy that's costing various governmental agencies and estimated $1.1 billion annually in safety net funding? There are approximately 5 million illegal aliens in California. Of the 6 million K-12 students in our public schools, 1.5 are illegal aliens, -each costing taxpayers $7,092 annually, or $16 billion annually. There are approximately 96,000 illegal alien births in California county hospitals annually, - all paid for by taxpayers. The average cost is $3,800, or $365 million annually.

    16 BILLION, JUST SHORT OF HALF OF THE 38 BILLION WE ARE IN THE HOLE, NOT CAUSED BY TAX CHEATS OR ????I CANNOT CHANGE THE FACTS OF WHAT THIS HAS DONE TO THIS STATE AND ITS PEOPLE, I WISH I COULD, WISH IT AWAY BUT???

    These new citizen infants are eligible for TANF (welfare) benefits, and most of the illegal moms gladly cash their welfare checks month after month after month. The average monthly TANF payment is $479. Although no one in the Department of Social Services seems to know how many illegal moms are involved in this scam, just the first year's batch of 96,000, not counting multiple births in previous or succeeding years, totals out at $552 million annually. And it's a good bet that if all the illegal moms' check cashing activity from all the years of rip-offs were added-up, just for the above three items, we'd be way over $5 billion annually. Then add another $557 million annually to incarcerate 25,000 illegal aliens in California prisons and we're well on the way to $6 billion annually.

    .He could not help himself I guess, when does pandering and selling out your citizens for votes (maybe )stop, never will any of us be safe from this if it does not stop, you all (from where ever) may be next, no you will be next on the chopping block, this corruption of morals and values will be blind to race and care not who the victims are. An injustice done to one is an injustice done to all (eventually my friends)

    The date on this was Jan 2003, state is bankrupt but spend away????
    Calif. Gov. Davis Allocates Millions for Immigration Museum
    By Melissa Clary, The Daily Aztec
    SAN DIEGO – While Gov. Gray Davis proposed $ 60 million cuts to higher education this year, he hasn't deprived the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service of funds.
    Davis announced a $ 2.5 million grant for the Immigration Museum of New Americans in San Diego in November. This comes after a March release of $ 2.9 million in state funds for naturalization services to assist legal California permanent residents in becoming U.S. citizens. A total of 57 contracts were awarded to non-profit organizations to provide naturalization services throughout California. "With foreign-born residents and their children making up more than 20 percent of our nation's population, the work of this unique museum is especially relevant," Davis said when announcing the allocation in a press release.
    The $ 2.5 million is in local assistance funds from Proposition 40, a $ 2.6 billion bond measure for environmental, parks and cultural projects approved by California voters last March.
    The museum will address recent studies' findings that, while a significant number of first-generation students perform well in school, by the second and third generation, immigrant children are among the least successful students in this country, according to the release.
    The museum's goals are to address the problems of these immigrant children through a variety of programs designed to help immigrants' children connect with the cultural values of their family's homelands, to inspire individuals to discover and understand the reasons behind their ancestor's arduous journeys to this country and to empower immigrant groups to secure their rights as Americans.
    The facility features a "virtual museum," focusing on post-World War II immigration that uses interactive technology to allow visitors to explore the world's many cultures and their histories, according to the release.
    "It is something that we need in our society," San Diego State University marketing senior Mauricio Romero said. "(The museum) will help the city's diversity to form a community and promote the acceptance of other cultures in our society."
    Romero said he would definitely visit the museum to see what cultures are represented and how that representation is achieved.
    Pre-business junior Hideko Nakayama, an international exchange student from Brazil, said she feels that if the state has money to give to immigration programs like the museum, then it would be a great idea to contribute money to educate students about their cultural heritage.
    Nakayama said it would also be a good idea to offer programs in schools that have a large concentration of immigrant children.
    Davis also awarded money to other naturalization programs this past March. Catholic Charities of San Diego was awarded $ 88,630, the Korean American Coalition was awarded $ 25,360 and the International Rescue Committee of San Diego was awarded $ 84,138.

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