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Thread: Aguila HAVE YOU EVER FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH ILLEGAL ALIENS PDRODUCE IN A YEAR? I ASSURE IS MUCH MUCH MO

  1. #1
    Aguila
    HAVE YOU EVER FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH ILLEGAL ALIENS PDRODUCE IN A YEAR? I ASSURE IS MUCH MUCH MORE THAN 70 BILLION.

    Agulia
    Your ignorance is only out done with a stupid unsupported statement like this.The avg. amnestied illegal alien after 10 years here has a 7th grade education, makes $9000 a year and send $500 to Mexico per month, 35.7 percent are on welfare, where is the benefit. LOLOLOLOLOL



    The current wave of mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall. "All of the available estimates suggest the annual net gain is astoundingly small," writes Professor Borjas, "... less than 0.1 percent of the Gross Domestic Product." Roughly: less than $10 billion in a $7 trillion economy.

    Note carefully what Professor Borjas is saying here. Sure, those immigrants who work do raise overall GDP. But the bulk of that increase goes to the immigrants themselves, in the form of wages. The benefit to native-born Americans, after everything is taken into account, is infinitesimally small.

    Current mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall -- but it is transforming their country. For nothing.

    Here, rescued by VDARE.COM, are the NRC's key findings (1996 dollars):
     Native-born Californian households paid $1,174 annually in federal, state and local taxes in a net subsidy to the immigrant presence in their state.


     Just in state taxes alone, excluding federal and local taxes, native-born California native-born households paid $895 annually in a net subsidy to the immigrant presence.


     California immigrant households received a net subsidy from combined Federal, state, and local programs averaging $6,145 in 1996. Immigrant households received an average $24,507 in combined Federal, state, and local spending. They paid an average of $18,362 in taxes.


     California immigrant households received a net subsidy of $2,632 from California state taxpayers. They received an average $4,973 in state spending and paid an average $2,341 in state taxes.

    Adjusting for inflation and growth in the immigrant population since the NRC report, we estimate California immigrants now receive about $9.3 billion more in state expenditures than they pay in state taxes. (See table)
    Conclusion: nearly one-quarter (24.5%) of California's current $38 billion state budget deficit stems directly from immigration.
    Including federal and local spending, after adjusting again for inflation and foreign population growth, the total net subsidy to California's immigrants amounts to $21.7 billion per year.
    Or, to put it another way, that $21.7 billion is equivalent to 6.6% of the combined Federal, state, and local taxes paid by California natives.
    In effect, native-born Californians face a 6.6% surcharge on their Federal, state, and local taxes to pay for California's immigrants.
    California is in an extraordinarily deep fiscal hole. Its budget deficit of $38 billion was an astonishing one-third of the state's annual spending.
    There's plenty of blame to go around. For example, as Peter Brimelow points out in his recent book The Worm In The Apple, the state's $40+ billion-yearly public school industry has been captured by a money-****ing parasite, the California Teachers Association. It has tightened its grip by claiming various key legal privileges, such as mandatory agency fee laws. Steve Camarota, director of research for the CIS, dismissed many of the economic theories used to support an open-border policy.

    While some argue that Mexican immigration - legal or otherwise - is crucial to the economy, Camarota introduced statistical data showing that Mexican immigrants comprise nearly one-third of California's population but account for approximately 3 percent of the state's economic output.

    According to Camarota, California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans, 70 percent of who are in the state illegally and 65 percent of who have less than a high school education.

    "The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false," Camarota said.

    Next, Camarota noted that Mexican immigrants pay significantly less in taxes compared with native Californians but use disproportionately more welfare benefits than those born in the state.

    Camarota's data showed that the average taxes paid by Mexican immigrants in California amount to about $1,535 per year, while native-born Californians pay $5,600 in taxes.

    While Mexican immigrants pay one-third the taxes of native Californians on average, they also consume roughly three times more welfare, Camarota said.

    The CIS data showed that 41.5 percent of Mexican immigrants used "major welfare programs" like Medicaid and food stamps, while those same welfare programs were used by only 14.2 percent of native Californians.

    "There's a very big difference between what Mexican immigrants are supposed to pay in taxes and what natives are supposed to pay," said Camarota. "This fact, coupled with their extremely high use of public services, means that there's a very high cost for cheap labor."

    While the panelists illustrated the encroaching problems and their causes, few detailed solutions were offered.

    "What should we do? I think most people support immigration, we want immigration, and it always enriches the culture. But we want it in California under legal auspices," said Hanson.

    Hanson said it would require "legal, measured immigration." However, he emphasized that "something" must be done to protect the borders.

  2. #2
    Aguila
    HAVE YOU EVER FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH ILLEGAL ALIENS PDRODUCE IN A YEAR? I ASSURE IS MUCH MUCH MORE THAN 70 BILLION.

    Agulia
    Your ignorance is only out done with a stupid unsupported statement like this.The avg. amnestied illegal alien after 10 years here has a 7th grade education, makes $9000 a year and send $500 to Mexico per month, 35.7 percent are on welfare, where is the benefit. LOLOLOLOLOL



    The current wave of mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall. "All of the available estimates suggest the annual net gain is astoundingly small," writes Professor Borjas, "... less than 0.1 percent of the Gross Domestic Product." Roughly: less than $10 billion in a $7 trillion economy.

    Note carefully what Professor Borjas is saying here. Sure, those immigrants who work do raise overall GDP. But the bulk of that increase goes to the immigrants themselves, in the form of wages. The benefit to native-born Americans, after everything is taken into account, is infinitesimally small.

    Current mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall -- but it is transforming their country. For nothing.

    Here, rescued by VDARE.COM, are the NRC's key findings (1996 dollars):
     Native-born Californian households paid $1,174 annually in federal, state and local taxes in a net subsidy to the immigrant presence in their state.


     Just in state taxes alone, excluding federal and local taxes, native-born California native-born households paid $895 annually in a net subsidy to the immigrant presence.


     California immigrant households received a net subsidy from combined Federal, state, and local programs averaging $6,145 in 1996. Immigrant households received an average $24,507 in combined Federal, state, and local spending. They paid an average of $18,362 in taxes.


     California immigrant households received a net subsidy of $2,632 from California state taxpayers. They received an average $4,973 in state spending and paid an average $2,341 in state taxes.

    Adjusting for inflation and growth in the immigrant population since the NRC report, we estimate California immigrants now receive about $9.3 billion more in state expenditures than they pay in state taxes. (See table)
    Conclusion: nearly one-quarter (24.5%) of California's current $38 billion state budget deficit stems directly from immigration.
    Including federal and local spending, after adjusting again for inflation and foreign population growth, the total net subsidy to California's immigrants amounts to $21.7 billion per year.
    Or, to put it another way, that $21.7 billion is equivalent to 6.6% of the combined Federal, state, and local taxes paid by California natives.
    In effect, native-born Californians face a 6.6% surcharge on their Federal, state, and local taxes to pay for California's immigrants.
    California is in an extraordinarily deep fiscal hole. Its budget deficit of $38 billion was an astonishing one-third of the state's annual spending.
    There's plenty of blame to go around. For example, as Peter Brimelow points out in his recent book The Worm In The Apple, the state's $40+ billion-yearly public school industry has been captured by a money-****ing parasite, the California Teachers Association. It has tightened its grip by claiming various key legal privileges, such as mandatory agency fee laws. Steve Camarota, director of research for the CIS, dismissed many of the economic theories used to support an open-border policy.

    While some argue that Mexican immigration - legal or otherwise - is crucial to the economy, Camarota introduced statistical data showing that Mexican immigrants comprise nearly one-third of California's population but account for approximately 3 percent of the state's economic output.

    According to Camarota, California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans, 70 percent of who are in the state illegally and 65 percent of who have less than a high school education.

    "The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false," Camarota said.

    Next, Camarota noted that Mexican immigrants pay significantly less in taxes compared with native Californians but use disproportionately more welfare benefits than those born in the state.

    Camarota's data showed that the average taxes paid by Mexican immigrants in California amount to about $1,535 per year, while native-born Californians pay $5,600 in taxes.

    While Mexican immigrants pay one-third the taxes of native Californians on average, they also consume roughly three times more welfare, Camarota said.

    The CIS data showed that 41.5 percent of Mexican immigrants used "major welfare programs" like Medicaid and food stamps, while those same welfare programs were used by only 14.2 percent of native Californians.

    "There's a very big difference between what Mexican immigrants are supposed to pay in taxes and what natives are supposed to pay," said Camarota. "This fact, coupled with their extremely high use of public services, means that there's a very high cost for cheap labor."

    While the panelists illustrated the encroaching problems and their causes, few detailed solutions were offered.

    "What should we do? I think most people support immigration, we want immigration, and it always enriches the culture. But we want it in California under legal auspices," said Hanson.

    Hanson said it would require "legal, measured immigration." However, he emphasized that "something" must be done to protect the borders.

  3. #3
    ACELAW YOU ARE THE IGNORANT, WHEN I SAID THEY PRODUCE I DID NOT MEAN WHAT THEY MAKE AS INCOME, INSTEAD WHAY THEY PRODUCE FOR THEIR EMPLOYERS.

  4. #4
    WE ALL PRODUCE FOR OUR EMPLOYERS,WHY WOULD YOU THINK ONLY THEY DO? They are only responsible for 3% of Calif. Economic output WOW that means us lazy fat Americans do 97% of the work in Calif yet there is 3 million illegals here,so you believe all the lies told to you .
    +
    While some argue that Mexican immigration - legal or otherwise - is crucial to the economy, Camarota introduced statistical data showing that Mexican immigrants comprise nearly one-third of California's population but account for approximately 3 percent of the state's economic output.

    According to Camarota, California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans, 70 percent of who are in the state illegally and 65 percent of who have less than a high school education.

    "The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false," Camarota said.

    This is not helping anyone but employers who profit off your back, get smart, don't work for nothing, instead of attacking our citizens and continue to spread these lies, try working with us. Saying these things only creates tension and bad feeling just as it would if we came to your country and did this to you. Who do you think built what you see today? Hard working Americans from all walks of life, we did not act as you all do,no one group of people can take anymore credit for this then the next .Illegals do not work any harder then the next guy, we all did those jobs at one time in our life's, it how you get started here, then work your way up to better jobs,so why continue to attack folks with lies??? That is the biggest thing that will make citizens mad,if I was in your shoes I would not be demanding anything, if you just fit in and be quit you would not get the attention you all are, then things would pass our government and you all would get amnesty, but with the constant attacks on us you will only rile up the natives. Not a wise thing to do.

  5. #5
    acelaw- get your story straight.


    "Camarota introduced statistical data showing that Mexican immigrants comprise nearly one-third of California's population.."

    Mexican Immigrants??? What is this?? There are 10 million Mexican immigrants in CA.?? I though it was 3 million, uh-oh, not more spin to fit the argument.............

    ".... but account for approximately 3 percent of the state's economic output."

    Is this skewed or what!!?? I thought it was the 3 million illegal immigrants who account for the 3 percent, and not the 10 million.

    So, if there are 35.5 million people in CA, and 10 million are Mexican immigrants, how many Mexican Americans are there then??? How many Hispanic people are in CA who aren't immigrants??

    I hope whoever did this study didn't count everybody with brown skin as a Mexican Immigrant!!!

    "According to Camarota, California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans,"

    There are 10 million "Mexicans" in CA?? How many Mexican-Americans are there?? Uh-oh, not another one of these guys who lumps all people with brown skin together and calls them all Mexican. How many non-Mexican hispanics are in CA???


    "The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false," Camarota said."

    YAAAAWN, same old stuff. I know, they aren't vital to CA agricultural economy.


    "This is not helping anyone but employers who profit off your back,"

    AMERICAN employers, who are creeps and just as "disgusting" and very un-patriotic.....They are to blame as well, no??

    "Who do you think built what you see today?"

    Many previous immigrants!!!

    "Illegals do not work any harder then the next guy,"

    Well..............I guess you're right, they just do it for much cheaper because they can be exploited easier by AMERICAN businesses!!


    "...we all did those jobs at one time in our life's, it how you get started here, then work your way up to better jobs,so why continue to attack folks with lies???"

    Yeah, ok. How can immigrants work their way up with people like you?? Much more difficult to work your way up when you don't have the opportunity.......


    ".......if I was in your shoes I would not be demanding anything,"

    Except to be treated like a human I bet......

    "...if you just fit in and be quit you would not get the attention you all are,"

    What attention??


    ".... then things would pass our government and you all would get amnesty,"

    Wow, acelaw, I didn't know you were in favor of an amnesty!!! That is news to me!!

    Did you have a change of heart acelaw!!??

  6. #6
    AMERICAN employers, who are creeps and just as "disgusting" and very un-patriotic.....They are to blame as well, no??
    OF COURSE IT ALWAYS SOMEONES ELSE FAULT, GUESS WHAT IF YOU WERE NOT HERE YOU WOULD NOT BE A VICTIM huh?
    "Who do you think built what you see today?"

    Many previous immigrants!!!

    "Illegals do not work any harder then the next guy,"

    Well..............I guess you're right, they just do it for much cheaper because they can be exploited easier by AMERICAN businesses!!
    Many previous immigrants!!!
    Well since we had only replacement immigration for thirty plus years I guess your wrong again, tell us who does these jobs in city's across this country that do not have illegals ???

    "Illegals do not work any harder then the next guy,"

    Well..............I guess you're right, they just do it for much cheaper because they can be exploited easier by AMERICAN businesses!!

    You can only be exploited if you let yourself be exploited, enough of the victim *** story, go home if its that bad....yOU ARE YOUR OWN VICTIMS, THEN CRY ABOUT IT!!!

    The current BROWN COLLAR" JOBS

    Hispanic immigrants piling into the labor market are weighing
    down the wages of all workers in a broad range of blue-collar
    occupations in big cities across the country, according to a new
    study by Lisa Catanzarite, a sociologist at the University of
    California - Los Angeles.

    According to the study:

    o Occupations in which new Hispanic immigrants account for a
    quarter of the work-force pay as much as 11 percent less
    than those where there are no new Latino immigrant men.

    o Toward the lower end of the wage ladder, where average
    annual earnings are about $21,600, jobs in which new
    Hispanic immigrant men account for 10 percent of the labor
    force pay $950 less per year than similar jobs with no new
    Latino arrivals.

    o Where new Latino male immigrants account for a quarter of
    the labor pool, the wage penalty is almost $2,400.

    These new immigrants have concentrated in what Catanzarite calls
    "brown collar" jobs, ranging from construction to gardening to
    washing dishes, in such metropolitan areas as Los Angeles, New
    York and Chicago.

    o The new immigrant males from Latin America -- defined as
    those who have been in the United States for less than
    five years -- aren't more than 5 percent of the total
    labor force in any metropolitan area.

    o But in some cities they represent as much as 29 percent in
    a specific employment category, like janitors and roofers.

    While the study shows the link between Latin immigrant labor and
    the pressure on wages, Catanzarite notes that some industries in
    which new Latino immigrants work -- such as textile production --
    might not even exist in the United States if it weren't for cheap
    immigrant labor.

    Source: Eduardo Porter, "Hispanic Newcomers Damp Wages: Study
    Calls for More Workplace Rules And Amnesty for Illegal
    Immigrants," Wall Street Journal, August 19, 2003; Lisa
    Catanzarite, ""Wage Penalties in Brown-Collar Occupations,"
    August 18, 2003, University of California, Los Angeles.

    For text
    http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1...502700,00.html

    For study information
    http://newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?id=4445

    For more on the Effects of Immigration
    http://www.ncpa.org/pd/immigrateffects.html

    Wave of mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall. "All of the available estimates suggest the annual net gain is astoundingly small," writes Professor Borjas, "... less than 0.1 percent of the Gross Domestic Product." Roughly: less than $10 billion in a $7 trillion economy.

    Note carefully what Professor Borjas is saying here. Sure, those immigrants who work do raise overall GDP. But the bulk of that increase goes to the immigrants themselves, in the form of wages. The benefit to native-born Americans, after everything is taken into account, is infinitesimally small.

    Current mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall -- but it is transforming their country. For nothing.

  7. #7
    acelaw-

    "Well since we had only replacement immigration for thirty plus years I guess your wrong again,"

    How so??

    "... tell us who does these jobs in city's across this country that do not have illegals ???"

    What city has zero illegal immigrants?? Maybe some town out in God's country somewhere, but all major metropolitan areas have illegal immigrants.........


    "You can only be exploited if you let yourself be exploited, enough of the victim *** story, go home if its that bad....yOU ARE YOUR OWN VICTIMS, THEN CRY ABOUT IT!!!"

    And you call yourself a TRUE American?? With that attitude?? Uh, yea, ok.

    So, once illegals are in the US, are you saying it is ok to exploit them? Yes or No?? If yes then you condone lawbreaking, if no, then what you just posted contradicts that. Surely, acelaw, you go on and on with your "I don't condone lawbreaking" routine, yet, you condone laws being broken against illegal immigrants??

    Yet another contradiction in your silly argument.......

    Who is responsible for the exploitation, the immigrants, or the employers!!?? Illegal immigrants exploit themselves??



    "Hispanic immigrants piling into the labor market are weighing
    down the wages of all workers in a broad range of blue-collar occupations in big cities across the country,"

    Legal or illegal?? What culpability do the businesses have in hiring them?? Is there a gun to their head?? Can immigrants hire themselves??

    "According to the study:
    o Occupations in which new Hispanic immigrants account for a quarter of the work-force pay as much as 11 percent less than those where there are no new Latino immigrant men."

    Legal or illegal?? What culpability do the businesses have in hiring them?? Is there a gun to their head?? Can immigrants hire themselves?? Are AMERICAN businesses doing this??


    "o Toward the lower end of the wage ladder, where average annual earnings are about $21,600, jobs in which new Hispanic immigrant men account for 10 percent of the labor
    force pay $950 less per year than similar jobs with no new Latino arrivals."

    What culpability do the businesses have in hiring them?? Is there a gun to their head?? Can immigrants hire themselves??


    "o Where new Latino male immigrants account for a quarter of the labor pool, the wage penalty is almost $2,400."

    What culpability do the businesses have in hiring them?? Is there a gun to their head?? Can immigrants hire themselves??

    "These new immigrants have concentrated in what Catanzarite calls "brown collar" jobs, ranging from construction to gardening to washing dishes, in such metropolitan areas as Los Angeles, New York and Chicago."


    What culpability do the businesses have in hiring them?? Is there a gun to their head?? Can immigrants hire themselves??



    "o The new immigrant males from Latin America -- defined as
    those who have been in the United States for less than
    five years -- aren't more than 5 percent of the total
    labor force in any metropolitan area."

    What about their immigration status?? legal or illegal??

    "While the study shows the link between Latin immigrant labor and
    the pressure on wages, Catanzarite notes that some industries in
    which new Latino immigrants work -- such as textile production --
    might not even exist in the United States if it weren't for cheap
    immigrant labor."

    Are these American busineses?? So what I mean acelaw, the businesses are only here to exploit the cheap labor, otherwise they would have fled the country like so many other AMERICAN businesses......

    "Calls for More Workplace Rules And Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants,"

    I love this title don't you acelaw, maybe I'll read it to see what you left out...


    "Wave of mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall. "All of the available estimates suggest the annual net gain is astoundingly small," writes Professor Borjas, "... less than 0.1 percent of the Gross Domestic Product." Roughly: less than $10 billion in a $7 trillion economy.Note carefully what Professor Borjas is saying here. Sure, those immigrants who work do raise overall GDP. But the bulk of that increase goes to the immigrants themselves, in the form of wages. The benefit to native-born Americans, after everything is taken into account, is infinitesimally small.
    Current mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall -- but it is transforming....."




    HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO POST THIS!!?? I like how you conveniently leave out certain parts..................I know, I know, they'll only make you look silly, but you should post them anyway.

    WAIT A MINUTE, another day gone by with no massive deportations ordered. That's ok acelaw, you maintain your hope and wishful thinking, there is nothing wrong with that!!!

    Typical acelaw. Isn't this what you have been saying for some time now. You made a point, (again arguing with yourself), but wait where is your solution!!!!???.

    Crux of the matter:

    "Evil? Or stupid? Either way, immigration policy is broke. And it needs fixing. Now."

    You can post cute numbers all you want, but is not going to sovle anything..............

    Take a look outside, the many neighborhoods, like it or not, the immigrants are now a part of OUR society...............not opinion but fact.

    You can only complain for so long.........

  8. #8
    HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO POST THIS!!?? I like how you conveniently leave out certain parts..................I know, I know, they'll only make you look silly, but you should post them anyway.


    SKS
    Here is the whole article,make up you minds as to posting long posts, you all cry about cut/paste, I do not have to leave anything out, just as you know there is NO GOOD NEWS about this invasion, cut/paste untill your blue in the face, but you can't find any FACTS to cut/paste. THE TRUTH HURTS.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20030820a.html
    Illegal Immigration Turning Calif. Into 'Apartheid State,' Expert Warns
    By Steve Brown
    CNSNews.com Staff Writer
    August 20, 2003

    (CNSNews.com) - California may evolve into an "apartheid state" unless major changes are made in immigration policy, a panel of immigration experts warned Tuesday.

    The problems are fueled primarily by illegal immigration to California, resulting in a growing segment of the population that pays a disproportionately low percentage in taxes; uses a similarly disproportionate amount of welfare services; and increasingly lives in virtually segregated communities while working in more affluent areas of the state, the panelists said.

    California State University, Fresno professor Victor Davis Hanson, a member of the panel hosted by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) in Washington, D.C., described some central California cities that are composed entirely of recent Mexican immigrants and their families, many of whom live in "a shadow community" because of their illegal status.

    "Where I live, there are towns such as Orange Cove, Mendota or Parlier, Calif., which are 100 percent composed of either people who are the first generation from Mexico and are illegal aliens, or second generation where third- and fourth-generation Mexican citizens have left," said Hanson, author of the recently published book Mexifornia: A State of Becoming.

    "These are like test tube cases of what not to do," said Hanson. "You reject American integration and diversity, and you allow apartheid societies of people who basically serve more affluent people in a shadow community without legality."

    Hanson predicted the issue of illegal immigration from Mexico will be raised either in the current California recall campaign or in the 2004 presidential election, saying he expects the debate will be "demagogued in a way that's going to be quite infamous before the actual elections come around."

    Part of the reason the issue of illegal immigration is such a highly charged political issue is because relatively few Americans have first-hand experience with it, according to San Diego Union-Tribune columnist Joseph Perkins, who was also on the panel.

    Another facet of the debate centers on the supply of cheap labor, which favors an "open-border" mindset in some business quarters.

    "Most of these folks have not actually seen the consequences of that policy," said Perkins. "The fact is California, the nation's most populous state, has been transformed by immigration, particularly illegal immigration."

    According to Perkins, who opposes open-border policies after having supported them as an editorial writer for the Wall Street Journal. "If my friends in New York who continue to advocate open borders were to have 100,000 Chinese immigrants heading into New York harbor year by year and suddenly becoming part of New York State's population... then they might feel differently."

    Steve Camarota, director of research for the CIS, dismissed many of the economic theories used to support an open-border policy.

    While some argue that Mexican immigration - legal or otherwise - is crucial to the economy, Camarota introduced statistical data showing that Mexican immigrants comprise nearly one-third of California's population but account for approximately 3 percent of the state's economic output.

    According to Camarota, California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans, 70 percent of who are in the state illegally and 65 percent of who have less than a high school education.

    "The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false," Camarota said.

    Next, Camarota noted that Mexican immigrants pay significantly less in taxes compared with native Californians but use disproportionately more welfare benefits than those born in the state.

    Camarota's data showed that the average taxes paid by Mexican immigrants in California amount to about $1,535 per year, while native-born Californians pay $5,600 in taxes.

    While Mexican immigrants pay one-third the taxes of native Californians on average, they also consume roughly three times more welfare, Camarota said.

    The CIS data showed that 41.5 percent of Mexican immigrants used "major welfare programs" like Medicaid and food stamps, while those same welfare programs were used by only 14.2 percent of native Californians.

    "There's a very big difference between what Mexican immigrants are supposed to pay in taxes and what natives are supposed to pay," said Camarota. "This fact, coupled with their extremely high use of public services, means that there's a very high cost for cheap labor."

    While the panelists illustrated the encroaching problems and their causes, few detailed solutions were offered.

    "What should we do? I think most people support immigration, we want immigration, and it always enriches the culture. But we want it in California under legal auspices," said Hanson.

    Hanson said it would require "legal, measured immigration." However, he emphasized that "something" must be done to protect the borders.


    What city has zero illegal immigrants?? Maybe some town out in God's country somewhere, but all major metropolitan areas have illegal immigrants.........
    WELL NOW SO THEY ALL HAVE SOME, BUT ENOUGH TO DO ALL THESE JOBS WE WON'T, TRY THE 10 MILLION UNDERSKILLED AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THESE JOBS FOR YEARS, WHO NOW ARE OUT OF WORK.


    "You can only be exploited if you let yourself be exploited, enough of the victim *** story, go home if its that bad....yOU ARE YOUR OWN VICTIMS, THEN CRY ABOUT IT!!!"

    And you call yourself a TRUE American?? With that attitude?? Uh, yea, ok.
    WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH BEING AN AMERICAN?YOU SURE FALL BACK ON US WHEN YOU NEED TOO, REST OF THE TIME YOUR ALL LA RAZA.

    So, once illegals are in the US, are you saying it is ok to exploit them? Yes or No?? If yes then you condone lawbreaking, if no, then what you just posted contradicts that. Surely, acelaw, you go on and on with your "I don't condone lawbreaking" routine, yet, you condone laws being broken against illegal immigrants??

    Yet another contradiction in your silly argument.......

    Who is responsible for the exploitation, the immigrants, or the employers!!?? Illegal immigrants exploit themselves??

    IF THE SHOE FITS WEAR IT,NO BODY MADE THEM COME HERE, TAKE A LOW PAYING JOB, THEY BROKE OUR LAWS OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL,IF THEY DO NOT LIKE THE JOBS THEY TAKE ,GO HOME, IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

    Unemployment Hispanic Immigrants Gain, American Workers Lose
    By Ed Rubenstein

    After 7 down months, employment finally went up in September. But the 57,000 job increase was not enough to reduce the unemployment rate. It held steady at 6.1%.

    Why the disconnect? Needless to say, the Establishment media didn't mention immigration. But, as in reporting the poverty rate announcement a few days earlier, one Big Foot newspaper inadvertently stubbed its toe on the real story:

    "But the increase in jobs was not large enough to match the growth in the population, and the percentage of adults with jobs fell to the lowest level in 10 years... Employment must grow by roughly 150,000 to 200,000 jobs each month to keep pace with the population." [VDARE.COM emphasis] [David Leonhardt, "Employment Rises for the First Time in Seven Months," New York Times, October 4, 2003.]

    Is keeping pace with the population such a problem? Absolutely. The working-age population (16 years and older) expanded by 7.9 million between 2000 and 2002. Immigrants accounted for nearly half (48%) of that growth. The foreign-born working age population grew by 13.5% in this two-year period - about 6-times faster than the U.S.-born working-age population (2.3% growth).

    There are no monthly figures on immigrant employment. But Hispanics are a good proxy. About 40% of Hispanics are immigrants. That contrasts with just 4% of non-Hispanic Whites and 6% of Blacks. In recent years nearly three-quarters of immigrant population growth was Hispanic.

    Immigration has helped push the number of working-age Hispanics up by 3.0% in just the first three months of this year. By comparison, the number of working-age Whites increased by less than one-quarter the Hispanic growth rate (by 0.7%). Blacks increased by less than half the Hispanic rate (by 1.2%).

    So how do these population growth factors play out in a generally bleak labor market?

    The answer is stark: Hispanics are crowding out the traditional American racial groups. The number of employed Hispanics rose 293,000, or 1.7% in the first nine months of 2003 their propensity to get work exceeded their rapid population growth. Black employment also rose, but not fast enough to absorb new Black entrants into the labor force. White employment actually fell.

    As a result, between January and September 2003 (dates chosen to ensure consistent categories):

    The Hispanic unemployment rate FELL by 0.3 percentage points, to 7.5%

    The Black unemployment rate ROSE by 0.9 percentage points, to 11.2%

    The White unemployment rate ROSE by 0.2 percentage points, to 5.3%


    Overall the unemployment rate rose 0.4 % percentage points, from 5.7% to 6.1%, during that time.

    The obvious reason Hispanics crowd out the traditional American racial groups: they work for less. Recent research shows that occupations in which new Hispanic immigrants account for a quarter of the workforce pay as much as 11% less than those where there are no new Latino men. [Source: Eduardo Porter, "Hispanic Newcomers Damp Wages," Wall Street Journal, August 19, 2003]

    In effect, it appears that the government has decided to use immigration policy to attack American workers on behalf of employers. And in the process, of course, it is electing a new people.

    Whatever the politics of this, the economic conclusion is inescapable: Hispanic immigrants are displacing low-skilled Blacks and Whites.

    For a table of Employment Data by Race and Hispanic Origin, January-September 2003, click here.

    Ed Rubenstein (email him) is President of ESR Research Economic Consultants in Indianapolis.

  9. #9
    AAAAHHHH- Another beautiful day!!

    "......... cut/paste untill your blue in the face, but you can't find any FACTS to cut/paste. THE TRUTH HURTS."

    Ok, I can't post any facts?? How about this one, they are here to stay. Clear enough. Here's another one, they are a part of OUR country, that's right, the good ol' US of A. How about those facts?? I know, I know, the truth hurts right?


    "California may evolve into an "apartheid state" unless major changes are made in immigration policy, a panel of immigration experts warned Tuesday."

    Unless what?? What was that?? Oh yeah, unless changes are made in our immigration policy.............sounds kinda familiar.


    "California State University, Fresno professor Victor Davis Hanson, a member of the panel hosted by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) in Washington, D.C., described some central California cities that are composed entirely of recent Mexican immigrants and their families, many of whom live in "a shadow community" because of their illegal status."


    Exactly my point. Nobody enjoys living like this, contrary to popular opinion.......


    "Where I live, there are towns such as Orange Cove, Mendota or Parlier, Calif., which are 100 percent composed of either people who are the first generation from Mexico and are illegal aliens, or second generation where third- and fourth-generation Mexican citizens have left,"

    Only proving my point more and more that immigrants are becoming a part of OUR country as the days go by.........................This is reality right acelaw?? Thanks for posting this.


    "You reject American integration and diversity, and you allow apartheid societies of people who basically serve more affluent people in a shadow community without legality."

    AAAAHHHH yes. Rich folks exploiting the immigrants. And as long as they live in that "shadow" the employers can force them to work in any condition, out of fear of deportation............

    "Hanson predicted the issue of illegal immigration from Mexico will be raised either in the current California recall campaign.."

    Well, not really. Kinda lousy prediction. The only thing really discussed was the drivers license bill, and Arnold did mention he was in favor of healthcare for illegal children......go figure.

    "Part of the reason the issue of illegal immigration is such a highly charged political issue is because relatively few Americans have first-hand experience with it, according to San Diego Union-Tribune columnist Joseph Perkins, who was also on the panel."

    Not necessarily. Maybe they interact with illegal immigrants and just don't know it. What does an illegal immigrant look like anyway??


    "The fact is California, the nation's most populous state, has been transformed by immigration, particularly illegal immigration."


    Transformed how??

    "If my friends in New York who continue to advocate open borders were to have 100,000 Chinese immigrants heading into New York harbor year by year and suddenly becoming part of New York State's population... then they might feel differently."

    Who is in favor and advocating open borders??


    "While some argue that Mexican immigration - legal or otherwise - is crucial to the economy, Camarota introduced statistical data showing that Mexican immigrants comprise nearly one-third of California's population but account for approximately 3 percent of the state's economic output."

    Again, clarify, there are @10-11 million Mexican immigrants in CA?? How many Mexican-Americans, Central, and Southern American Hispanics are there??


    "According to Camarota, California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans, 70 percent of who are in the state illegally and 65 percent of who have less than a high school education."

    What proportion of the CAs population are Mexican-American, Central American, South American, and other non-Mexican Hispanic?? Again, is this guy counting everybody with brown skin as Mexican??


    "The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false," Camarota said."

    Here we go again.........


    "Next, Camarota noted that Mexican immigrants pay significantly less in taxes compared with native Californians but use disproportionately more welfare benefits than those born in the state."

    Mexican immigrants?? Legal or illegal?? Is this guy also counting Mexican immigrants from that "10 million he got"??

    "The CIS data showed that 41.5 percent of Mexican immigrants used "major welfare programs" like Medicaid and food stamps, while those same welfare programs were used by only 14.2 percent of native Californians."

    How much of that welfare is for US CITIZEN children?? If so moot point.................

    Mexican immigrants, what percentage are legal as opposed to illegal.


    "While the panelists illustrated the encroaching problems and their causes, few detailed solutions were offered."

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEEEESSSSSSS. Why am I not shocked to read this?? Like I've said a million times, it's very easy to b!tch, moan, and point out problems. (Some of which I may agree with on certain levels) But, after addressing them, what do we do???????? Typical. Guys like this and acelaw will give you cute numbers make some sort of point and try to sound smart, but don't offer any viable solutions..............except the ol' round'em up an deport'em schtick. Gets old.

    "Hanson said it would require "legal, measured immigration." However, he emphasized that "something" must be done to protect the borders."

    What?? How?? Who?? When?? Anybody can say that. "Legal measured" immigration, what does that mean?? Explain, what is your plan, don't stop there!!



    Now for acelaw's BS.......



    "WELL NOW SO THEY ALL HAVE SOME, BUT ENOUGH TO DO ALL THESE JOBS WE WON'T, TRY THE 10 MILLION UNDERSKILLED AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THESE JOBS FOR YEARS, WHO NOW ARE OUT OF WORK."

    Thank you for ceding the point that all cities have illegals!!

    Out of work from the "unskilled jobs"?? Almost EVERY fast food restaurant in and around LA is always hiring, why don't they work there?? Pride?? Embarrassed?? You tell me........

    Plenty of jobs out there............



    "WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH BEING AN AMERICAN?YOU SURE FALL BACK ON US WHEN YOU NEED TOO, REST OF THE TIME YOUR ALL LA RAZA."

    It has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BEING AN AMERICAN.. AMERICANS STAND FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE FOR ALL PEOPLE. REPEAT ALL PEOPLE. IT IS AGAINST OUR LAWS TO EXPLOIT PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY. PERIOD. AGAINST THE LAW. PERIOD. Correct?? Is it legal to own a sweatshop in the US?? Yes or No??

    "La Raza" you post?? What does that mean?? What are you referring to?? Silly racism.........



    "IF THE SHOE FITS WEAR IT,NO BODY MADE THEM COME HERE, TAKE A LOW PAYING JOB, THEY BROKE OUR LAWS OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL,IF THEY DO NOT LIKE THE JOBS THEY TAKE ,GO HOME, IT'S THAT SIMPLE."


    ANSWER THE QUESTION DIRECTLY!!!!!! ANSWER THE QUESTION DIRECTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES OR NO, IS IT LEGAL TO EXPLOIT PEOPLE AND TO OPERATE A SWEATSHOP, YES OR NO??

    DO YOU CONDONE LAWBREAKING ACELAW?? IF YOU DON'T, THEN YOU WOULD BE AGAINST AMERICAN BUSINESSES EXPLOITING IMMIGRANTS. IF YOU DO, THEN YOUR TRUE COLORS SHINE THROUGH AND ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A HYPOCRITE.


    "Immigrants accounted for nearly half (48%) of that growth."

    Legal or illegal??


    "The foreign-born working age population grew by 13.5% in this two-year period - about 6-times faster than the U.S.-born working-age population (2.3% growth)."

    Foreign-Born?? Legal or illegal immigrants??

    "But Hispanics are a good proxy. About 40% of Hispanics are immigrants."

    Legal or illegal???........Geez, who is doing this lousy research.........

    "In recent years nearly three-quarters of immigrant population growth was Hispanic."

    Legal or illegal?? Born here or not??

    "Immigration has helped push the number of working-age Hispanics up by 3.0% in just the first three months of this year."

    Legal or illegal??

    "The answer is stark: Hispanics are crowding out the traditional American racial groups."

    "Traditional" American racial groups?? Who are they?? Haven't Hispanics been in this country for many years?? I'm sure the Native Americans felt the same way. They probably didn't like the way the Europeans changed the traditional racial groups!

    Again, when the person says "Hispanics" is that legal immigrants, citizens, illegal immigrants, or is he doing the same thing and lumping them all together to fit his argument?? Great research


    "The number of employed Hispanics rose 293,000, or 1.7% in the first nine months of 2003 their propensity to get work exceeded their rapid population growth."

    And the problem is what??



    "The obvious reason Hispanics crowd out the traditional American racial groups: they work for less."

    Again, "Hispanics". Legal, illegal, or citizens?? Or is this another lump together??

    I know, immigrants hire themselves right?? They FORCE businesses to hire them right?? Businesses have no choice but to hire them right?? There are innocent little souls right?? Come on, acelaw you don't really believe this do you??


    "Recent research shows that occupations in which new Hispanic immigrants account for a quarter of the workforce pay as much as 11% less than those where there are no new Latino men."

    Legal or illegal??

    "In effect, it appears that the government has decided to use immigration policy to attack American workers on behalf of employers. And in the process, of course, it is electing a new people."

    WHO IS DOING THAT, OUR GOVERNMENT?? AH, THAT'S FUNNY. SEE HERE OL'ACELAW....... OUR GOVERNMENT IS TO BLAME FOR THIS RIGHT?? REMIND ME AGAIN, HOW MANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE IN OUR LEGISLATURE?? I know I know, much easier to scapegoat the illegals, much more fun too..

    "Whatever the politics of this, the economic conclusion is inescapable: Hispanic immigrants are displacing low-skilled Blacks and Whites."

    Hispanic immigrants?? Legal or illegal??

    And this silly job displacement, who is responsible?? You tell me acelaw, do immigrants hire themselves?? Answer that directly..... AMERICAN businesses can hire whoever they want, right?? They make a CHOICE to hire immigrants, a CHOICE, their own free will........... They ARE NOT forced to hire people. I know I know, much easier to pick on the immigrants, more fun too..

  10. #10
    Is it legal to exploit folks from another country ???Use our rights, freedom against us, break into our country and become a finical burden to others. And you COMPLAIN.lololol

    SKS ALL YOU GOT IS BAD SPIN, NO FACTS.


    Immigrants passing out pink slips

    STEVE GILL October 14, 2003




    The U.S. unemployment rate today is at the highest level in 20 years.
    Millions of hard-working Americans who are desperate for jobs can't find them, and both the short term and long term prospects do not bode well for many American workers.

    The economic problems we face would be bad enough if all we had to contend with were a recovering economy, the continued threat of terrorism, and increased competition from foreign companies.

    But a Congress that should be looking for ways to help unemployed Americans is busy opening the floodgates to millions of new immigrants who take jobs away from Americans - and also helping companies take the remaining jobs offshore.

    It almost appears that our government is committed to making sure everybody in the world has a job - except Americans.

    Historically, the U.S. admitted around 300,000 legal immigrants per year, but Congress changed our immigration policies back around 1965 and opened the floodgates. We now allow more than a MILLION legal immigrants into the country each year. A small number of these are refugees; some have special skills not easily found here. But an increasingly large percentage of those pouring through our borders are undereducated, unskilled workers who threaten the income of blue-collar workers, the backbone of America. Millions more come here each year ILLEGALLY, and the government does nothing to stop that either.

    It's no secret that most immigrants - legal and illegal - come to the United States for a single reason: money. They know that no matter what a job pays here, it will be far more than they could ever hope to earn in their own country. A job in America is a ticket to what appears to them to be a fortune, letting them live better than they could have imagined at home.

    It's also no secret that those same immigrants will underbid any American for any job. Their arrival by the thousands corresponds directly with thousands of Americans being pushed out of a job. In effect, every visa given to an unskilled foreigner is really a pink slip handed to a hard-working American. Worse yet, the pink slips are being handed to Americans by their own government, paid for with their own tax money!

    And the cost of this flood of immigration is not just being borne by those who lose their jobs. American taxpayers are increasingly funding the health, education and welfare of millions of immigrants at a cost of tens of billions of dollars per year. The Federation for American Immigration Reform recently released a report that detailed the fact that educating illegal alien children is costing the U.S. over $7 billion a year - enough to buy a computer for every middle school child in America. Health care for the two million illegals in California runs in the billions of dollars a year; and it is estimated that the annual health care costs of delivering illegal alien children in Denver, Colorado alone is in excess of ten million dollars. All of these costs are borne by American taxpayers.

    Clearly, we have a broken system, one that lets hundreds of thousands of unskilled immigrants - legal and illegal - into the United States at random to take American jobs, stifle the American economy, and put little or nothing back into strained local, state and federal tax coffers.

    This has to end. Congress needs to immediately enforce our immigration laws to stop the flood of illegal immigration and change our outdated laws to reduce legal immigration back to more manageable numbers. A step in the right direction is a bill introduced by Rep. Bob Goodlatte of Virginia, H.R. 775, which would end the totally unnecessary visa lottery program. It would help give us a "time out" while we assess other ways to manage immigration into this country.

    America has always been a land of opportunity and a nation of immigrants. But when the opportunity is for today's flood of immigrants to put Americans on the unemployment line, our system is out of whack. Instead of maintaining policies that hand out pink slips to America, Congress needs to get serious about stopping illegal immigration and reduce legal immigration to reasonable levels that will allow the millions who have flooded into this country in recent years to assimilate. Every day of delay is another stack of pink slips for Americans.

    (EDITOR'S NOTE: Steve Gill is a morning radio and television talk host in Nashville.)

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