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Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Little reality check for acelaw.......

  1. #1
    Acelaw- Hate to break it to you buddy.........but maybe this will open your eyes to what is REALLY going on..........

    You stated this about the Immigrant workers' rides a few weeks ago:

    "We are going to be on the route in my city ,they come here on the 23/24 , we have called BICE and filled complaint with them, highway patrol ETC...we are set to file action with attorney general of the state and Federal attorney general if buses are not sized for transpiration of illegal aliens, interstate flight ETC...You might do the same in your state????We have folks tracking the bus to this area.We are set to do the same in every state out west here, don't know past the mid west , but have the big guns in N.Y. area ready to go.You can always just call the hiway patrol and report a speeding bus driving to endanger others on cell phone , pay phone ETC... your name will not come up!!!!."

    Well, how did it go!!!

    You tell me, how many of the immigrants were detained and deported??

    Good for you, you exercised you right of free speech and protested the rides.


    I usually don't like to rub things in, but you friend deserve it.


    And for those of you who were so "disgusted" about the immigrants comparing themselves to the original Freedom Riders, read this. Because
    it is reality. Here is an excerpt from AN ORIGINAL FREEDOM RIDER OF THE 1960'S:

    "Saturday's event featured U.S. Rep. John Lewis (D-Georgia), an original participant in those rides, and his congressional colleague Charles Rangel (D-Astoria), who compared the crowd to those who marched on for civil rights.

    "Forty years ago we marched, we prayed and we asked for a more just America," Rangel said. "We had no idea the history that we were making with the late and the great Dr. Martin Luther King. My brothers and my sisters, today you are making history. You are making our country better."

    READ THAT AGAIN ACELAW, THIS IS COMING FROM AN ORIGINAL FREEDOM RIDER,
    http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=506458&rfi=6

    So, what happened?? Why didn't the BCIS round up the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants in NY?? WHY?? They were all there, ready to get arrested. We probably aren't going to get that many immigrants together again for some time, so WHY DIDN'T WE ROUND THEM ALL UP?????!!!!

    It's ok, I'll tell you.............Promise not to tell though ok?? SSSSHHHHHH, it will be our little secret...........................

    because it ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. Fact not opinion.

    This has got to open your eyes a little.....


    More good reading

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...imentel07.html

    www.iwfr.org

    [This message was edited by SKS on October 10, 2003 at 06:27 PM.]

  2. #2
    Acelaw- Hate to break it to you buddy.........but maybe this will open your eyes to what is REALLY going on..........

    You stated this about the Immigrant workers' rides a few weeks ago:

    "We are going to be on the route in my city ,they come here on the 23/24 , we have called BICE and filled complaint with them, highway patrol ETC...we are set to file action with attorney general of the state and Federal attorney general if buses are not sized for transpiration of illegal aliens, interstate flight ETC...You might do the same in your state????We have folks tracking the bus to this area.We are set to do the same in every state out west here, don't know past the mid west , but have the big guns in N.Y. area ready to go.You can always just call the hiway patrol and report a speeding bus driving to endanger others on cell phone , pay phone ETC... your name will not come up!!!!."

    Well, how did it go!!!

    You tell me, how many of the immigrants were detained and deported??

    Good for you, you exercised you right of free speech and protested the rides.


    I usually don't like to rub things in, but you friend deserve it.


    And for those of you who were so "disgusted" about the immigrants comparing themselves to the original Freedom Riders, read this. Because
    it is reality. Here is an excerpt from AN ORIGINAL FREEDOM RIDER OF THE 1960'S:

    "Saturday's event featured U.S. Rep. John Lewis (D-Georgia), an original participant in those rides, and his congressional colleague Charles Rangel (D-Astoria), who compared the crowd to those who marched on for civil rights.

    "Forty years ago we marched, we prayed and we asked for a more just America," Rangel said. "We had no idea the history that we were making with the late and the great Dr. Martin Luther King. My brothers and my sisters, today you are making history. You are making our country better."

    READ THAT AGAIN ACELAW, THIS IS COMING FROM AN ORIGINAL FREEDOM RIDER,
    http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=506458&rfi=6

    So, what happened?? Why didn't the BCIS round up the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants in NY?? WHY?? They were all there, ready to get arrested. We probably aren't going to get that many immigrants together again for some time, so WHY DIDN'T WE ROUND THEM ALL UP?????!!!!

    It's ok, I'll tell you.............Promise not to tell though ok?? SSSSHHHHHH, it will be our little secret...........................

    because it ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. Fact not opinion.

    This has got to open your eyes a little.....


    More good reading

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...imentel07.html

    www.iwfr.org

    [This message was edited by SKS on October 10, 2003 at 06:27 PM.]

  3. #3
    SKS, You are so mean. I've been thinking about you and acelaw's little back and forth for a couple of days.And one thing I kept coming back to was the way you are so CERTAIN in your comments about illegals being here to stay and no one was really going to do anything about it ect. And I realized that most of ace's post's are about what SHOULD happen, and the reasons why .I started reading on this site as research for a college paper in Poly Sci., on the effects of illegal immigration in the US concerning the economy, culture, ect.So I had done a lot of fact finding and number crunching. I've been going over all of it ,and I have come to some strange conclusions and am curious to know what you think.Or actually, I would like your answer to the big question I kept asking myself. First my conclusions of facts (as I see them). I have come to think that you have hit the nail on the head in so far as what the government should be doing, isn't doing ,and most likley WON"T be doing to stop illegal immigration.I agree that if that is true, then your suggestions for dealing with it are also the most logical way to go. That being said: Acelaw is correct in his statements about how illegal immigration is harming the country. And I am only speaking of ILLEGAL immigration.Looking at the census data of the last 10 years you would have to say that the estimate of how many illegals are here is laughable.The numbers suggest closer to 14 million on the low end.That is from counting how many immigrants are here now,how many were here then, how many could legally enter from each country of origin factoring in births,deaths margin of error ect.All but one or two groups that study these things(and they were both ethnic research groups)say that illegal immigration is a VERY large drain on the economy in general, and in some states it could have devastating effects on certain state and federal services(schools, hospitals, prisons ect)Because 85% of recent LEGAL immigration has been from third world countrys, that has had a negative impact on the economy also. It generaly takes three generations or longer for immigrants from third world countries to pull themselves out of poverty. It is also believed that almost all illegal immigrants excluding visa overstayers ect.,are from third world countries.The number of people living in poverty has increased the most in the states with the largest numbers of illegals. As poverty has increased, test scores and literacy are falling. The dropout rate for Hispanics is close to 50%. This fact alone means years more in poverty.And contrary to what some advocate groups are reporting, these recent immigrants (both legal and illegal) are NOT asimilating. They are creating enclaves in cities where they can spend entire lives and never even need to speak English.They also seem indifferent to becoming citizens. While wishing to be legal, only 20% of those granted amnstey in 1986 bothered to become citizens.Sociologists say this trend will begin to Balkanize the country and create a two tier society.They are more prone than legal immigrants to break the law and end up in prisons. Illegals account for 33%of new prisoners in some states.In some states they account for as much as 75% of emergency room traffic and 100% of that cost is absorbed by the hospitals causing fiscal crisis at many of them. There has also been a sharp increase in TB and other diseases that the AMA is attributing directly to the illegal population....... OK ,so those are some of the facts as I found them. I think I have even seen you agree with some of them in some of your posts. Now add to those facts: polls regularly show that anywhere from 75-100% of citizens want the military on the borders, a moratorium on ALL immigration, illegals rounded up and deported, services denied or some combination of those. AZ.is even going to have their own version of prop.187 on their next ballot. So to sum up, illegal immigration is very bad for the country. You would be hard pressed to find any benefit to the country. It may benefit unscrupulios employers, but that in turn hurts the country, which is forced to subsidize the cost of those employees...........So heres my question.....Given all the facts above, and for the sake of argument lets assume they are true(which I think to be the case)Why do all those in government from the President on down to county supervisors, continue almost without exception, to IGNORE the wishes of the citizens they are sworn to represent,and disregard the fiscal and cultural damage that is being done to the country, which they have sworn to protect from "ALL ENEMIES BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC"???I mean it makes noooo sense. It can't be for votes. They are ticking off the majority of the people who vote for them. It can't be money. There IS NO MONEY here. It is COSTING money. It can't be because they condone law breaking.(can it?)I can't believe they think the country will be better off the more uneducated ,non English speaking highschool dropouts they can lure into the country. They have to KNOW what's going on. I've heard of time after time when a congresperson's web site crashed from the volume of angry e-mail they get concerning this. So WHAT IS IT??I have to tell you, I don't have a clue. So I'm counting on that logical teachers mind that you have to ENLIGHTEN ME PLEASE.

  4. #4
    Well, how did it go!!!

    You tell me, how many of the immigrants were detained and deported??

    Good for you, you exercised you right of free speech and protested the rides.


    I usually don't like to rub things in, but you friend deserve it.


    It went well SKS, they were met by 200 or so pissed off citizens, we had the buses escorted in by a couple hundred bikers with flags flying, we happened to have 80,000 of them in town for an event. They did not have a very good rally at INS, hard to hear speaker when bikes are running LOLOLOL. They gave up about an half hour in to there hour and a half event.There were about 20 Federal Protection Officers that are being brought in to each stop to protect federal property, just another cost to us citizens .We called , Email the H.E.L.L. out of our homeland security , our boys at INS told us they were LEGAL or in the process, this was a big lie PROMOTED BY AFL-CIO,MOTELS AND FOOD WORKERS UNION ,they were stopped at El Paso port of entry and detained for 4 hours, none were arrested because they were legal,. So it was just more costs to the USA by people who have no respect for us or our country, THEY MUST LIE, CHEAT , STEAL FROM US TO MAKE THERE POINT????WHICH IS ,WE WANT PROTECTION UNDER YOUR LAWS, BUT WE ONLY WANT TO OBAY THE ONES THAT FIT OUR PURPOSE., THE ONES WE BREAK ARE NO GOOD TO US.

  5. #5
    acelaw- You must be completely out of touch with reality........

    "It went well SKS, they were met by 200 or so pissed off citizens,"

    Wow, a whopping 200 huh?? Geez, you sure made a big difference. Did they make it to NY or not??

    "They did not have a very good rally at INS, hard to hear speaker when bikes are running LOLOLOL."

    Not when there's @75,000 in NY!!


    "There were about 20 Federal Protection Officers that are being brought in to each stop to protect federal property, just another cost to us citizens."

    Lets not contradict ourselves ok??

    I like how you NOW conveniently say the riders were legal!! Idiotic. But if you say they are now, then you can't complain if they are US Citizens and legal immigrants. "Another cost to US Citizens" you say?? But if they were LEGAL immigrants as you say, then that is a moot point to your argument about illegal immigrants costing us taxpayers!!! Silly logic......

    "We called , Email the H.E.L.L. out of our homeland security , our boys at INS told us they were LEGAL or in the process,"

    And how did they determine that?? When the busses were stopped in El Paso, they had no PROBABLE CAUSE to search and detain anybody on the busses, because no laws were being broken.

    Come on acelaw, you know what happened, stop trying to spin things to fit your argument........

    The BP agents were met with people who remained silent and did not answer their questions...........you tell me, how did those BP agents determine they were in the "process" and were legal??? Silly.....

    "....this was a big lie PROMOTED BY AFL-CIO,MOTELS AND FOOD WORKERS UNION,"

    AHA, So instead of protesting the immigrants.......protest these good ol' AMERICAN institutions!!!! Again, you'd probably get nowhere, so lets pick on the immigrants right. Much more fun and easier.........

    "they were stopped at El Paso port of entry and detained for 4 hours, none were arrested because they were legal,."

    How did they determine that acelaw?? IF the riders on the bus did not answer any questions and only stated they were riders on a bus, HOW DID THE BP AGENTS DETERMINE THEIR STATUS?? Are you now telling me NONE of the freedom riders where illegal??

    Search this site, iwfr.org and let me know........

    "So it was just more costs to the USA by people who have no respect for us or our country, THEY MUST LIE, CHEAT , STEAL FROM US TO MAKE THERE POINT????"

    "People who have no respect for the country," you say??? What people would that be??? According to you, the people on the bus were legal!!!! So, now you're against legal immigrants!!!???

    You're contradicting yourself, and you know it. If the people on the bus were citizens or legal, then they have every right to exercise the rights they are entitled to (ie: Free speech). What, you are now against people's free speech, who are in this country legally!!?? Get your story straight...........

    "WHICH IS ,WE WANT PROTECTION UNDER YOUR LAWS, BUT WE ONLY WANT TO OBAY THE ONES THAT FIT OUR PURPOSE., THE ONES WE BREAK ARE NO GOOD TO US."

    Which is it, were the freedom riders legal or illegal?? At first you stated they were illegal, now you're conveniently saying they were legal because you know nothing was done to detain them..................I like how your logic works.

    There were THOUSANDS of ILLEGAL immigrants in NY. Read here for the many stories, iwfr.org.



    In typical fashion acelaw does not answer my direct questions: WHY WEREN'T THE THOUSANDS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN N.Y. DETAINED AND DEPORTED???WHY?? WHY WEREN'T THEY ALL ROUNDED UP, QUESTIONED, AND THEN RELEASED OR DETAINED WHEN IT WAS DETERMINED THEY WERE EITHER LEGAL OR ILLEGAL?? WHY?? ACELAW, YOU TELL ME?? (Don't give me this BS now, that, "Well none of the 75,000 were illegal," that is pure BS and you know it..)

  6. #6
    janiss- Another good week ahead of us!


    "And one thing I kept coming back to was the way you are so CERTAIN in your comments about illegals being here to stay and no one was really going to do anything about it ect."

    My opinion is based on reality....The proof is in the pudding. All one has to do (acelaw) is ask themselves if the government has used all of its resources in dealing with this issue? And if not, why??


    "That being said: Acelaw is correct in his statements about how illegal immigration is harming the country."

    I have agreed with him that illegal immigration poses some serious issues, and must be dealt with..........Again, contrary to popular opinion, I'm not some staunch "PRO-illegal immigrant" lobbyist.........


    "The numbers suggest closer to 14 million on the low end."

    Yeah, again, like I said before, it all depends on who you believe............I've heard anywhere from 8-16 million...

    "All but one or two groups that study these things(and they were both ethnic research groups)say that illegal immigration is a VERY large drain on the economy in general,"

    I haven't disagreed with that entirely. Immigrants DO need to be allowed to contribute to our society more so, by allowing them auto and medical insurance, it would be a great start.....


    "Because 85% of recent LEGAL immigration has been from third world countrys, that has had a negative impact on the economy also."

    Moot point in regards to illegal immigration....

    "It generaly takes three generations or longer for immigrants from third world countries to pull themselves out of poverty."

    Exactly. Which is why I don't understand the idiotic idea that we should kick them out of school. That would only hurt us more in the long run.......


    "As poverty has increased, test scores and literacy are falling."

    Again, there are many more factors as to our test scores being the way they are............I've went over this already! I don't think it would be sound logic to blame US citizen children's test scores on illegal immigrants!! That would be idiotic. Again, I've NEVER had a student fail because they were sitting next to an illegal immigrant. NEVER.


    "The dropout rate for Hispanics is close to 50%. This fact alone means years more in poverty."

    Isn't it important to find out why, and ways we can fix the situation??

    "They also seem indifferent to becoming citizens. While wishing to be legal, only 20% of those granted amnstey in 1986 bothered to become citizens."

    But, did they get permanent residency??


    "In some states they account for as much as 75% of emergency room traffic and 100% of that cost is absorbed by the hospitals causing fiscal crisis at many of them."

    Ever more reason to allow them insurance.....


    "There has also been a sharp increase in TB and other diseases that the AMA is attributing directly to the illegal population.."

    So, I haven't heard that, but I'll take your word for it. This is exactly one of my points in regards to ideas like Prop. 187. The immigrants are here to stay, correct?? Well, if we deny them any health services, how ignorant would that be. Wouldn't overall diseases, TB and such, increase?? Wouldn't we have people with diseases running around without any way to treat them?? Seems very counterproductive to deny services to immigrants, because that would only hurt us in the long run, again.

    "I think I have even seen you agree with some of them in some of your posts."

    Yes.

    "Now add to those facts: polls regularly show that anywhere from 75-100% of citizens want the military on the borders, a moratorium on ALL immigration, illegals rounded up and deported, services denied or some combination of those."

    Perhaps, but most Americans, if polled, would agree that the government should work for the people. Yet, there is reality that we must face.....

    Did those polls also ask if the citizens actually believed the government was going to round up the illegals, or just if that is what they wanted??


    "So heres my question.....Why do all those in government from the President on down to county supervisors, continue almost without exception, to IGNORE the wishes of the citizens they are sworn to represent,"

    Why do politicians ignore the citizens?? I honestly don't know; that has been the question people have asked for so many years........


    "It can't be for votes."

    Not necessarily. Hispanics are a growing minority. Most people realize that. As more Hispanics are born here and become citizens, they will be a large voice.

    "So WHAT IS IT??I have to tell you, I don't have a clue."

    Neither do I. Why are we going to give 89 billion to Iraq, with all of the problems we have in the US? Why, I just don't know.........

    I wish I could give you a definitive reason as to why our government does the things they do, but I can't................

    I can only speculate. It would be one hell of a task to reorganize the INS/BCIS from the top to the bottom. Hiring thousands more BP Agents and workers, tracking down visa overstayers, etc. Moreover, I don't believe the US will have internment camps like the we did the Japanese, because, in our day and age, that wouldn't be "politically correct." Right??

    Land of the free home of the brave, I don't believe the US will conduct house to house raids because that would mirror KGB and gestapo tactics as well. Could it be that our politicians are afraid of being labled racists?? Is "political correctness" running amock?? Again, this is speculation...........

    [This message was edited by SKS on October 13, 2003 at 11:45 AM.]

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