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Thread: Question for the anti-illegal

  1. #1
    So as I have been researching more and more, and reading many posts on here and reading about how people are for legal immigration and that there are avenues for people to come legally and stay. So from what i read, the only way people can come are for, work, marriage/family, school, the visa lottery and visiting. Work may not always been there for you, I know people who were deported because there jobs closed, not everyone has family here, school is temporary and the visa lottery says
    "Program makes 55,000 immigrant visas available through a lottery to people who come from countries with low rates of immigration to the United States."
    Which not everyone qualifies for. And visiting is temp.
    Now If someone comes from lets say mexico (since thats the biggest amount of illegals), and they can get maybe a temp visa but they can't get a visa for the long term because they aren't skilled, that means they couldn't become a naturalized citizen through continous years here legally because the visa would expire, and lets say they have no family here but would like to move here for their family to have a better life and their kids to not grow up in poverty, and they're not in school, and don't qualify for the lottery. What are their other choices to become residents or citizens?

  2. #2
    Mandee3911: Well, in the first instance, America ISN'T responsible for providing for every single person in the world.

    As you point out, there are many ways in which a person can request entry to America, and it is solely the American government's responsibility to establish the rules for such entries. It seems to me that you're advocating that a person break the law if they decide themselves too important to follow the rules for entry to the United States, and at least 12,000,000 law-breakers have followed your advice.

    It is becoming ever-more difficult to remain illegally in America, as both the individual States and the Federal government crack down on illegal aliens.

    One last point: if parents in Mexico, to use your example, don't want their kids to grow up in poverty, then perhaps they should consider limiting the size of their families...and educating their kids. Smaller families and education are the best resources for combating poverty. It ISN'T America's responsibility to ease poverty in Mexico...that is Mexico's responsibility.

  3. #3
    Welcome to the board Mandee3911.

    DevilDoll, I've not read any other of Mandee3911's posts and as far as this question, your response was totally uncalled for but then again it's typical of your responses.

    You didn't want to answer the question and it wasn't necessary for you to tell the person that 'you think' they deem themselves too important to follow the rules of entry.

    You're not a pschic and even if the person wanted to find an illegal way to enter - he did't ask that. You could've left that out.

    Many people that go to the U.S. have also experienced levels of poverty that they hoped to get out of. There is nothing wrong for want of a better life irregardless of what a person's home country is like.

    It's well known you have a profound disliking for Mexico and that's why you gave this person the response you did.

    If you can't welcome a newer member any better than that then maybe it's best to say nothing at all.

    This is the reason people leave this discussion board because of unfriendly responses such as yours. This is a board to offer friendly advice - not to berate somebody and especially by providing your own personal judgement statements.

    A really nice way to make newcomers feel welcome here. NOT.

  4. #4
    Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
    Mandee3911: Well, in the first instance, America ISN'T responsible for providing for every single person in the world.

    As you point out, there are many ways in which a person can request entry to America, and it is solely the American government's responsibility to establish the rules for such entries. It seems to me that you're advocating that a person break the law if they decide themselves too important to follow the rules for entry to the United States, and at least 12,000,000 law-breakers have followed your advice.

    It is becoming ever-more difficult to remain illegally in America, as both the individual States and the Federal government crack down on illegal aliens.

    One last point: if parents in Mexico, to use your example, don't want their kids to grow up in poverty, then perhaps they should consider limiting the size of their families...and educating their kids. Smaller families and education are the best resources for combating poverty. It ISN'T America's responsibility to ease poverty in Mexico...that is Mexico's responsibility.
    AMEN TO ALL THAT YOU HAVE SAID. Immigration is a PRIVILEGE not a RIGHT despite the rhetoric spouted by Calderon, LaRaza and the rest of those desperate to import Mexico's poverty to the US by the zillions.

    The reason why the MAJORITY OF ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THE US ARE MEXICANS AND SOUTH AMERICANS is because THE MAJORITY OF THEIR PEOPLE ARE FUNCTIONAL ILLITERATES WHO DO NOT HAVE THE SKILLS OR THE EDUCATION TO QUALIFY FOR PERMISSION TO LEGALLY IMMIGRATE TO THE U.S.

    Their governments does not value education or its people as exhibited by the maps drawn up directing them to the safest points to cross AMERICAN borders ILLEGALLY. There are no social systems in place for the ginormous birth rates born to their poverty stricken masses and now that the party is over and the crackdown is in full swing with no amnesty in sight Calderon is whining and complaining and trying to build Mexican consulates all over the US and distributing Matricular cards to keep his poverty stricken masses from coming home.
    Wolves Travel In Packs
    ____________________

  5. #5
    Originally posted by Beverly:

    IT's time for the US to cut off all aid to Mexico until they GROW UP AND ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR POVERTY STRICKEN UN EDUCATED MASSES/
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but Mexico does not receive direct aid from the USA. I see that you don't have any idea of what you are talking about. Get a clue.

  6. #6
    I would not say Mexico was a typical thirld world county, I have been to far worse.

    So if that is to be the basis of legitamy, most of Africa would be well ahead.

    Fact of lifeis that the majoity of people from ALL countries, Mexico or Sweden, hae no basis for legally immigrating to the US.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by hjv:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beverly:

    IT's time for the US to cut off all aid to Mexico until they GROW UP AND ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR POVERTY STRICKEN UN EDUCATED MASSES/
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but Mexico does not receive direct aid from the USA. I see that you don't have any idea of what you are talking about. Get a clue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hmm . . .I like your new name but your attack is still old and tired . . . . Sorry but you are apparently the one Living in the Bubble of MISINFORMATION. The US allocates foreign aid through the UN of which Mexico is a recipient. Additionally, if necessary like now, we also consider/provide emergency aid here ya go MS. UNINFORMED:

    U.S. may send Mexico $1.4 billion in drug war

    Money in Pentagon budget targets training, high-tech tools


    12:00 AM CDT on Tuesday, October 2, 2007
    By ALFREDO CORCHADO / The Dallas Morning News
    acorchado@dallasnews.com

    MEXICO CITY – Tucked in the Pentagon's massive budget request is at least $1.4 billion in U.S. aid to Mexico for its fight against increasingly violent drug kingpins – including better training and high-tech tools.

    Negotiators for the two countries have agreed on the package now awaiting U.S. congressional approval, officials familiar with the proposal said Monday.

    Both U.S. and Mexican officials have said the package is needed to fight a common threat – one that has leeched over the border and into North Texas.

    "We either win together or we lose together," said Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora in interviews with The News in September.

    But some have criticized the package as money down the drain until Mexico weeds out endemic police corruption.

    It was unclear whether the Mexican aid package is contained in the $460 billion 2008 defense authorization bill, which the U.S. Senate approved 92-3 Monday night, or in a pending $193 billion supplemental Iraq war budget.

    One Senate Republican aide familiar with details of the bill said the money is in the measure approved Monday night, but neither U.S. nor Mexican officials could confirm that.

    In any case, the defense bill still needs to be finalized by House and Senate negotiators before going to President Bush for his signature – and the legislative process is still weeks from completion.

    A U.S. official familiar with the aid package said it probably will come up for debate in the coming days and weeks as details of the bill become public. The official requested anonymity.

    Beyond the two-year duration of the aid arrangement, the governments would probably form a permanent cooperation agreement that must be agreed upon by the next U.S. administration following the 2008 presidential election, officials said.

    In general, the plan calls for the U.S. to take on a bigger role in the fight against Mexican drug traffickers – and it represents a significant increase from the estimated $40 million Mexico currently receives annually from the U.S. government.

    Though details remain murky, Mexican officials stressed in interviews with The News last month that the agreement does not call for the U.S. military to play any role in Mexico – unlike Plan Colombia. Under that plan, the South American nation has received about $5 billion in U.S. assistance over the last six years to fight rebel groups and the illicit drug trade. That plan also included U.S. training of Colombian military in that country.

    Mr. Medina Mora stressed in interviews with The News that the initiative is aimed at bolstering Mexico's telecommunications capabilities – and its ability to monitor its airspace and coastal waters, where about 85 percent of all smuggling takes place.

    Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa said any agreement with the United States would require approval by the Mexican Congress, which is unlikely to put up much resistance given the breakdown in Mexican security and the increasing violence of drug cartels.

    With more than 2,000 execution-style killings this year, Mexico is on pace to set a record for drug murders, surpassing the 1,900 last year.


    Plan given chance

    The proposed aid package is likely to generate much criticism among some members of the U.S. Congress.

    But analysts in Washington said that given the clamor in the U.S. for increased border security, the plan stands a chance.

    "There's a willingness to look at cooperative efforts between the United States, Mexico and Central America, especially if it involves training, judicial reform, police reform," said Andrew Seele, director of the Woodrow Wilson Center's Mexico Institute.

    "That is likely to get a better reception than if it's strictly a counternarcotics proposal," he said.


    Some said the proposal underscores Washington's concerns about Mexico's war with the powerful drug cartels whose reach has been felt in U.S. cities like Laredo and McAllen and as far north as Dallas.

    Local and federal authorities in North Texas have documented crimes committed by elements of the Zetas – drug enforcers for the Gulf cartel.

    Nonetheless, analysts cautioned that final congressional approval remains an uphill battle.

    "The odds are good, given Washington's preoccupation with border security," said Armand Peschard-Sverdrup, president of a firm dedicated to U.S.-Mexico issues – the newly formed Peschard-Sverdrup & Associates. "There is a strong interest in curtailing the drug flow into the U.S. and ... supporting President [Felipe] CalderĂłn's bold leadership on the issue. But this is still a difficult process."

    Phil Jordan, former head of the regional Drug Enforcement Administration office in Dallas, is skeptical.

    "Until you reduce U.S. demand for drugs and weed out the immense corruption among Mexico's law enforcement, pouring more U.S. money into Mexico won't necessarily solve the problem," he said.


    Tackling corruption

    The increased financial assistance is designed to enable Mexican law enforcement to take on drug traffickers who possess advanced weapons, electronic monitoring systems and aircraft, Mr. Medina Mora and Public Security Minister Genaro GarcĂ*a Luna told The News last month.

    The aid package may also strengthen programs aimed at training Mexico's police and periodically testing them to weed out corrupt elements.

    For now, both sides continue to stress the importance of increased cooperation on issues such as drug demand and gun control in the United States and terrorist cells and transnational criminal organizations such as the paramilitary cartel enforcers the Zetas and the Central American gang the Mara Salvatruchas.

    "The U.S government needs to do more in reducing the drug consumption, and it needs to do its part in the equation of stopping the flow of cash and weapons," said Mr. Medina Mora in a recent interview. "The U.S. law is too flexible, too permissive when it comes to gun possession, and unfortunately many of those guns, particularly high-power assault weapons, too often end up in the hands of ruthless drug cartels."
    Wolves Travel In Packs
    ____________________

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Theone:
    I would not say Mexico was a typical thirld world county, I have been to far worse.

    So if that is to be the basis of legitamy, most of Africa would be well ahead.

    Fact of lifeis that the majoity of people from ALL countries, Mexico or Sweden, hae no basis for legally immigrating to the US.
    Your post? Dead on. There are people in 3rd world countries much worse off than the poverty stricken masses from Mexico who despite the abundance of foreign aid and decades of co-dependancy upon financial aid are still poverty stricken, uneducated, crime ridden, massively reproducing and perpetually whining instead of trying to change the homeland they claim to love so much *rolls eyes*.

    They are just a country of JEALOUS, mentally incapacitated, non-self-sufficient whining cowards who want what we have and if they can't get it they are determined to destroy America by any means necessary. I'd rather share a border with Communist China. At least they aren't pretending to be our friends; the people are intelligent, educated, self sufficient and productive.
    Wolves Travel In Packs
    ____________________

  9. #9
    Again, Mexico DOES NOT receive direct aid from the USA. I have done extensive research on this on the past. The aid you are talking about is going to be provided because it is in the best interest of the USA, as the main consumer of the drugs that come from South America through Mexico, and the ones produced in Mexico as well. I don't think it will work, though, since the USA is a MAJOR producer of marijuana, beating even wheat, corn and other crops. Please get your facts together.

  10. #10
    I still don't believe anyone is understanding my question. All these people who adovacate legal immigration and say anyone in any race of nationality has some form of legally entering. I mentioned the ways people can come, A lot can't even qualify to apply for these forms. How are people suppose to go about coming if they can't qualify for any of those forms. And if there are no forms, why doesn't the government stop saying that there is a way for everyone to come in legally. And also, I feel like people can't help where they were born. I'm sure no one asked to be born in a poverty stricken country. And if the parents aren't educated, I'm sure they can't educate their children any better. You act like its so easy to get your country out of being in poverty. If they don't have the resources, money and education, how can they do anything for their country.

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