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Thread: Sanctuary Cities?

  1. #1
    This puts lie to the claim by many on ILW that there is no such thing as sanctuary cities.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...03/26/BAN216NNQO.DTL

  2. #2
    This puts lie to the claim by many on ILW that there is no such thing as sanctuary cities.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...03/26/BAN216NNQO.DTL

  3. #3
    Not sure who on ilw claimed sanctuary cities don't exist, but I don't think it's of utmost concern right now. Our economy is in jeopardy and we need to fix it first and worry about minor things later. Illegal immigrants are the least of our concerns right now.

  4. #4
    See the following:

    http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

    and

    http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

    That is an old and not very clever debating strategy. Ignore the facts and claim to move beyond the issue.

    Let us just address the facts here and the fact is ILW supports denying that sanctuary cities even exist, while at the same time supporting sanctuary cities.

  5. #5
    Sorry ProudUSC I like you and have no personal grudge against immigrants.

    However I do have strong opinions about the illegals who are:
    1. free health care
    2. College assistance
    3. have great rights to privacy and protection then USC,

    I could go on and but you see the point.

    Criminals regardless of USC born or naturlaized, legal immigrants, and illegals all have to obide by the laws.

    Without laws we become much like the 3rd world countries they are trying to flee from.

    Were almost there now.

    Furthermore it does harm those who have played by the rules to enter legally when those who enter illegally place such burden on our government to detect fraud.

    I'd like to see the U.S. remain a safe lawful place for everyone, including immigrants who wish to come here and contribute to our nation.

    But we must put a stop to those who are robbing us blind, rob, cheat, steal, break our laws and expect to be granted some waiver.

    Are such waivers available to USC? Man/Woman goes to jail short of a pardon from the governor if it is a state crime or a pardon from the President if Federal they don't have waivers and thousands of free organizations to assist them.

    Again I realize that immigration law is complex and I'm only starting to learn myself. So continue to assist those who have made innocnet mistakes becuase that is easy to do.

    But do know that all are not innocent mistakes, many are well calculate risks, cleverly planned actions of deceit and we as a nation must find a way to weed them out.

  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robin Horton:
    Sorry ProudUSC I like you and have no personal grudge against immigrants.

    However I do have strong opinions about the illegals who are:
    1. free health care
    2. College assistance
    3. have great rights to privacy and protection then USC,

    I could go on and but you see the point.

    Criminals regardless of USC born or naturlaized, legal immigrants, and illegals all have to obide by the laws.

    Without laws we become much like the 3rd world countries they are trying to flee from.

    Were almost there now.

    Furthermore it does harm those who have played by the rules to enter legally when those who enter illegally place such burden on our government to detect fraud.

    I'd like to see the U.S. remain a safe lawful place for everyone, including immigrants who wish to come here and contribute to our nation.

    But we must put a stop to those who are robbing us blind, rob, cheat, steal, break our laws and expect to be granted some waiver.

    Are such waivers available to USC? Man/Woman goes to jail short of a pardon from the governor if it is a state crime or a pardon from the President if Federal they don't have waivers and thousands of free organizations to assist them.

    Again I realize that immigration law is complex and I'm only starting to learn myself. So continue to assist those who have made innocnet mistakes becuase that is easy to do.

    But do know that all are not innocent mistakes, many are well calculate risks, cleverly planned actions of deceit and we as a nation must find a way to weed them out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't try to help people who are trying to bypass our laws either, Robin. But, I do give immigrants a break and try to see all sides before I make a determination whether or not I think they scammed their way into the country.

    As far as obtaining free health care, college assistance and greater rights to privacy, that is not true. Immigrants' Amercian born children are afforded these privileges, not illegal immigrants.

    I do agree regarding criminals. I would be more than happy to see all criminals, without regard to status, deported from this country. I have no use for any of them, nor any sympathy for their well being.

    I enjoy helping people with legitimate immigraton questions.

    I guess I don't live close to a Sancturary City and maybe don't understand like I should.

  7. #7
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by federale86:
    See the following:

    http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

    and

    http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

    That is an old and not very clever debating strategy. Ignore the facts and claim to move beyond the issue.

    Let us just address the facts here and the fact is ILW supports denying that sanctuary cities even exist, while at the same time supporting sanctuary cities. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Your links did not prove one thing federale. You cited one, count one, blog post in a search that yielded none on posters here.

    The term sanctuary city is a term used by anti immigrant groups to incite fear and hatred. And those same groups use a very broad term for illegal, which applied would also include about 95% of the US born citizens.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

  8. #8
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robin Horton:
    Sorry ProudUSC I like you and have no personal grudge against immigrants.

    However I do have strong opinions about the illegals who are:
    1. free health care
    2. College assistance
    3. have great rights to privacy and protection then USC,

    I could go on and but you see the point.

    Criminals regardless of USC born or naturlaized, legal immigrants, and illegals all have to obide by the laws.

    Without laws we become much like the 3rd world countries they are trying to flee from.

    Were almost there now.

    Furthermore it does harm those who have played by the rules to enter legally when those who enter illegally place such burden on our government to detect fraud.

    I'd like to see the U.S. remain a safe lawful place for everyone, including immigrants who wish to come here and contribute to our nation.

    But we must put a stop to those who are robbing us blind, rob, cheat, steal, break our laws and expect to be granted some waiver.

    Are such waivers available to USC? Man/Woman goes to jail short of a pardon from the governor if it is a state crime or a pardon from the President if Federal they don't have waivers and thousands of free organizations to assist them.

    Again I realize that immigration law is complex and I'm only starting to learn myself. So continue to assist those who have made innocnet mistakes becuase that is easy to do.

    But do know that all are not innocent mistakes, many are well calculate risks, cleverly planned actions of deceit and we as a nation must find a way to weed them out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Ms. Horton,
    You need to stop generalizing about "illegals." for starters, illegal aliens generally do not receive free medical care. They are allowed however, access to emergency room services, but are still charged. In fact, Phyler vs Doe, a US Supreme Court ruling, stipulates what can and cannot be used for immigration status for such services as education, housing, or other services unless specified by law. Generally, illegal aliens do not receive free medical care, but their U.S.C. children do. Are they illegal? or are the parent?

    As for USC, most do obey the laws, like most immigrants; however, immigrants have a higher threshold to pass before becoming citizens. For most USC, they cannot pass the citizenship test, much less the process for the N-400 because they have a DUI or two, maybe not dotted all the "i's" or cross all the "t's."

    Finally, the law. There is a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Following the letter of the law is what Germany did in 1930's and 40's. In fact, most of the henchman used that excuse when they executed millions of eastern Europeans, Jews, and other "undesireables" that the Nazi party wanted. Is that the same thing you want for the U.S. Ms. Horton?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

  9. #9
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That comment you made about USC's not obeying the law is beyond offensive. Where do you get off saying something so slanderous? If the majority of people did not obey the law this country would be no better than any other 3rd world cesspool. Which is what makes this country what it is. We have rules that are followed. Which gives rise to everything else. And no. Most USC's do not have even one DUI let alone two. Are these idiotic comments personal reflection? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    1. I said illegals were charged for their services Davdah, You really need to reread the post again. What I did not say is whether illegals are more financial responsible for their medical bills than USC. there is no clear evidence of that, one way or ther other. However, one of the biggest reasons to file bankruptcy is because of unpaid medical bills. You might want to think about that Davdah.

    2. The point was the higher threshold that immigrants have to pass to obtain citizenship. Having a DUI or even two DUI's will not prohibit most USC's in obtaining work or other benefits, but it does for immigrants. That was the point Davdah.
    \
    Note: 70% of high school students fail to pass civics in a recent study. In another study, more than half of USC adults failed to pass civic questions.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

  10. #10
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Your comment concerning bankruptcy proves my point. When was the last time an illegal filed bankruptcy? Most Americans, the real ones that is, do make an effort to be honest. Which is why some get themselves into financial predicaments. At least they try to cover their costs. Your average kangaroo with a BJ visa (border jumper) does not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Davdah,
    Think about your logic here. You state that Americans are responsible for paying their bills; that is they are making payments. However, bankruptcy does not do that. It wipes the debt as unpaid. That is not being responsible Davdah, is it? Or is this the do as i say, not as i do mantra.

    And although it might be intriguing to see whether an illegal can file bankruptcy, bankruptcy is usually an indication of one is not being responsible. After all, if they were and had the foresight as you, there would be no need of bankruptcy, would there?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To say there is no evidence to say illegals don't pay their bills is lunacy! The hospitals themselves document it. Show one article that says different. Just one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Davdah, you really need to stop putting words in other people's mouths and read the post as is. You have a really bad comprehension problem here.

    I said there is no evidence one way or the other that illegals are more or less responsible for paying medical bills. The reason is that independent studies do not identify legal status. When you go to the hospital for emergency room care or when you fill out the paperwork when you visit the doctor for the first time, nothing about your legal status is mentioned. If you need assistance in paying, then most state and all federal programs ask for this, but if you have some form of medical insurance, indemnity, ppo, pos, hmo, hsa, etc., the question does not come up.

    But as for the study, this study is one of the most comprehensive in analyzing unpaid medical bills and how it affects insurance costs.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And concerning your civics tests. I bet most immigrants would fail the same tests. Or are you going to overlook the fact that the USC test has all the questions and answers published on-line at 50,000 different web sites virtually guaranteeing a passing score. Take that away and I bet the failure rate would skyrocket. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Again, you missed the point Davdah. Don't you think that USC, who are required to know civics from high school and/or college, would have a better understanding of how their own government works than one who is not a USC? The failure rate, no matter how you look at it, is appalling and there should be no excuse. it is one reason why we have the problems today. Piss poor secondary educational standards are ruining this country Davdah. But that is a different topic altogether.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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