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Thread: Driver's licenses for migrants? Not in Mexico

  1. #1
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...enses1115.html


    Driver's licenses for migrants? Not in Mexico
    Chris Hawley
    Republic Mexico City Bureau
    Nov. 15, 2007 12:00 AM

    MEXICO CITY - The question of whether to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants ignited a national debate in the United States. But in Mexico, the largest source of U.S. immigrants, there's no question: Here, you must be a legal resident to get a driver's license.

    All of Mexico's 31 states, along with Mexico City, require foreigners to present a valid visa if they want a driver's license, according to a survey of states by The Arizona Republic.

    "When it comes to foreigners, we're a little more strict here," said Alejandro RuĆ*z, director of education at the Mexican Automobile Association.

    Immigrant drivers zoomed into the national spotlight after presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton said a move by the New York governor to give licenses to illegal immigrants "makes a lot of sense" during an Oct. 30 debate.

    On Wednesday, Clinton backed off that plan.

    Proponents said the plan would have made the roads safer by ensuring that drivers are trained and insured, but the ensuing public outcry forced Gov. Eliot Spitzer to abandon the effort Wednesday.

    U.S. Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., planned to file a bill this week that would bar states from any future attempts to give licenses to illegal immigrants.

    Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington allow drivers to get licenses without proving they are legal residents, according to the National Immigration Law Center. Most other states, including Arizona, require applicants to prove they are citizens or legal residents.

    Mexicans make up the bulk of illegal immigrants in the United States, accounting for an estimated 6 million of the 11.5 million undocumented residents as of March 2005, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.

    Mexico's Foreign Relations Secretariat declined to comment on the controversy this week, but the Mexican government has fought U.S. restrictions on licenses in the past.

    In 2004, the former Mexican consul in New York, Arturo Sarukhan, called such rules "a policy without a purpose" during a hearing in the New York State Assembly.

    Sarukhan is now the Mexican ambassador in Washington.

    Yet, licensing offices in all of Mexico's 31 states, along with the Federal District, where Mexico City is located, said they require applicants to prove their citizenship, preferably by showing a federal voter-registration card issued by the Federal Elections Institute.

    Of those, 28 states and the Federal District said they would issue licenses to foreigners only if they present valid FM-2 or FM-3 residency visas.

    The central Mexican states of Morelos, Puebla and Guerrero are more lenient. Foreigners there can get a driver's license with a valid tourist visa, or FMT.

    Tourist visas are issued by federal immigration agents at airports and border crossing points.

    Foreign tourists who are in Mexico temporarily can also drive using their foreign licenses, states said. Most U.S. states, including Arizona, have a similar exemption for temporary visitors.

    Mexican officials said the application rules are strictly enforced, especially in southern states that have a problem with illegal immigrants from Central America.

    "Last week a man came here (with a tourist visa) and said he was working as a deliveryman," said Denia Gurgua, manager of the driver's license office in Tuxtla GutiƩrrez, the capital of the southern state of Chiapas.

    She said she denied him a license because he did not have a visa to work in Mexico.

    "Our constitution has certain restrictions for foreigners," she said.

    U.S. proponents of tougher restrictions worry that having a driver's license helps legitimize illegal immigrants, making it harder to detect and remove them.

    "The fact that all 31 states in Mexico would have such a common-sense position . . . shows to me a certain hypocrisy on the part of the Mexican government, because they are constantly criticizing those of us in Congress who want immigration laws to be tougher up here," said King of New York.

    But immigrant advocates says the two countries don't compare. U.S. states are trying to protect other motorists from millions of illegal immigrants who are already driving, said Tyler Moran, an expert on driver's licenses at the National Immigration Law Center.

    Mexico's pool of foreign residents is much smaller, about 492,000 people in a country of 105 million, according to the 2000 census.

    "It may be a bit like comparing apples and oranges," Moran said. "The (U.S. states) are dealing in reality, and it's better public policy to have people actually have licenses, have identification, have insurance than not."

  2. #2
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...enses1115.html


    Driver's licenses for migrants? Not in Mexico
    Chris Hawley
    Republic Mexico City Bureau
    Nov. 15, 2007 12:00 AM

    MEXICO CITY - The question of whether to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants ignited a national debate in the United States. But in Mexico, the largest source of U.S. immigrants, there's no question: Here, you must be a legal resident to get a driver's license.

    All of Mexico's 31 states, along with Mexico City, require foreigners to present a valid visa if they want a driver's license, according to a survey of states by The Arizona Republic.

    "When it comes to foreigners, we're a little more strict here," said Alejandro RuĆ*z, director of education at the Mexican Automobile Association.

    Immigrant drivers zoomed into the national spotlight after presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton said a move by the New York governor to give licenses to illegal immigrants "makes a lot of sense" during an Oct. 30 debate.

    On Wednesday, Clinton backed off that plan.

    Proponents said the plan would have made the roads safer by ensuring that drivers are trained and insured, but the ensuing public outcry forced Gov. Eliot Spitzer to abandon the effort Wednesday.

    U.S. Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., planned to file a bill this week that would bar states from any future attempts to give licenses to illegal immigrants.

    Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington allow drivers to get licenses without proving they are legal residents, according to the National Immigration Law Center. Most other states, including Arizona, require applicants to prove they are citizens or legal residents.

    Mexicans make up the bulk of illegal immigrants in the United States, accounting for an estimated 6 million of the 11.5 million undocumented residents as of March 2005, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.

    Mexico's Foreign Relations Secretariat declined to comment on the controversy this week, but the Mexican government has fought U.S. restrictions on licenses in the past.

    In 2004, the former Mexican consul in New York, Arturo Sarukhan, called such rules "a policy without a purpose" during a hearing in the New York State Assembly.

    Sarukhan is now the Mexican ambassador in Washington.

    Yet, licensing offices in all of Mexico's 31 states, along with the Federal District, where Mexico City is located, said they require applicants to prove their citizenship, preferably by showing a federal voter-registration card issued by the Federal Elections Institute.

    Of those, 28 states and the Federal District said they would issue licenses to foreigners only if they present valid FM-2 or FM-3 residency visas.

    The central Mexican states of Morelos, Puebla and Guerrero are more lenient. Foreigners there can get a driver's license with a valid tourist visa, or FMT.

    Tourist visas are issued by federal immigration agents at airports and border crossing points.

    Foreign tourists who are in Mexico temporarily can also drive using their foreign licenses, states said. Most U.S. states, including Arizona, have a similar exemption for temporary visitors.

    Mexican officials said the application rules are strictly enforced, especially in southern states that have a problem with illegal immigrants from Central America.

    "Last week a man came here (with a tourist visa) and said he was working as a deliveryman," said Denia Gurgua, manager of the driver's license office in Tuxtla GutiƩrrez, the capital of the southern state of Chiapas.

    She said she denied him a license because he did not have a visa to work in Mexico.

    "Our constitution has certain restrictions for foreigners," she said.

    U.S. proponents of tougher restrictions worry that having a driver's license helps legitimize illegal immigrants, making it harder to detect and remove them.

    "The fact that all 31 states in Mexico would have such a common-sense position . . . shows to me a certain hypocrisy on the part of the Mexican government, because they are constantly criticizing those of us in Congress who want immigration laws to be tougher up here," said King of New York.

    But immigrant advocates says the two countries don't compare. U.S. states are trying to protect other motorists from millions of illegal immigrants who are already driving, said Tyler Moran, an expert on driver's licenses at the National Immigration Law Center.

    Mexico's pool of foreign residents is much smaller, about 492,000 people in a country of 105 million, according to the 2000 census.

    "It may be a bit like comparing apples and oranges," Moran said. "The (U.S. states) are dealing in reality, and it's better public policy to have people actually have licenses, have identification, have insurance than not."

  3. #3
    So..... basically the policy is good for Mexico, but not the US......sad !

  4. #4
    I totally agree,some of the U.S. laws are pathetic and least to say,pure stupid.

    No one in the United States that is here illegally should ever receive a U.S. drivers license,never.Unless U are here legally,aka student visa,work visa,permanent resident...

    But if you are here illegally,You should NEVER EVER get a drivers license.

    Thats why I still do not understand how some states don't min giving out licenses to people who are not in this country legally,and are illegally and broke the federal law.

    Many dummies out there also misunderstand things and say "whats the big deal,if an illegal gets a drivers license"

    Let me educate you high school drop-outs about the law and how things work in the United States.

    A U.S. state issued drivers license in the United States is ALSO your legal I.D. card for traveling by plane and basic identification for government buildings etc.

    Now if an Illegall person,is allowed to have a drivers license which he or she can use as I.D. to enter an airplane,and everyhting else...and it turns out something bad happens or what not.What happens then???

    The whole issue with drivers license is,in the United States a drivers license is also an official I.D. thats the whole issue and thats why I am against giving people who do not belong here and broke the law in this country demand to have a drivers license,so they can go to work and work illegally lol.

    Uusually this works if u live in a dumb country that has dumb laws. Any other nations thinks "these idiots in the U.S. just went through 9/11 and what not" and still argue,if people who do not belong in there country and broke the law to be in their country illegally,weather or not to give a drivers license aka legal I.D. card.

    Its making me sick...maybe we the US should take examples from other countries like mexico and other european countries.

    But lets not forget,its not all states in the US do that.

    I know In OHIO U have to be legally here and proof it,in order to even be considered to have a drivers license...but alot of states do not care.Shame on them!!!

  5. #5
    the point u don't get isthere are 12 millions persons whatever u like it or not it is a fact not only that but 1 out of 4 workers in the us is illegal so you need them to work, mr.HBKHBK called them dummies i personally don't think american are like that, they had the strongest economy by being smart and facilitate the issuence of driver licenses to illegals so they can work, to summaries if u prevent them from work you will feel it, think about it everything will be higher prices, not to mention some items will not exist like fresh veggies all the time and so forth

  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This country needs immigrants but we don't need 10 million uneducated irresponsible lettuce pickers. That quota was filled long ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I see S12 is rubbing off on you. This isn't the former, helpful Davdah I knew a few months back. I'd find another role model if I were you. All 10 million aren't lettuce pickers, but they are doing the jobs that you probably look down on and thumb your nose at.

  7. #7
    davdah, u r rt. but i am talking about a problem that we can convert to a solution, u can take a lot of tax money from them-illegal- also not all of them are lettuce pickers as proudusc said, most of them work in construction, and as far as i know if very few of them hit and run-i mean very few- they run cause guess what ........they have no status give it to them they will help u pay ur bills of the hospital, and u can get as many stitches as u want even for a little prices, don't forget that hospital are expensive cause of the few americans like to spend their life studing and works as doctors so we got shortage of nurses and doctors the price goes up and the cycle goes on, as much as i agree that breaking the law is wrong but u have to be realstic and use the pain coming from illegals to produce happiness getting it from them beig legal and use their tax money cause they work hard.

  8. #8
    Comment to davdah, you admitted you were in a hurry to get to the airport. I think you said one of them spoke english? Maybe not. When did you become a mind reader to think they didn't care about your vehicle? Come on, davdah!

    BTW, how did your flying lessons go that day? If you buy a helicopter you could use it to cross over the city and keep yourself safe.

  9. #9
    I think that if every other country other than the U.S requires proof of legal residency to get a license than the U.S. should too. right?

  10. #10
    Comment to davdah, you didn't say anything about colorful language! You said you guys exchanged insurance information. davdah, you must be thinking about another accident you had.

    BTW, I'm glad you haven't crashed into any SUVs!

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