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Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Question regarding Denaturalization!! - Where are all the pundits?

  1. #1
    Hi! This is my first post here. Decided to do some research before contacting the BICE or an immigration lawyer.
    I became a US citizen in Dec 2001, got my certificate and US pasport. Then in 2003 I was served with a search warrant and my pasport and IDs seized. It says in the warrant that I was investigated by the JTTF for a period of six months prior to that. I was threatened with the revocation of my citizenship and removal or deportation. After a while, some of my documents were returned and I was able to get a drivers license again. I had just undergone a stressfull seperation from my wife and basically went into a depression for almost 2 years. With no job or assistance I survived on one meal a day and was in terrible shape. Needless to say I became broke paying all my outgoing without any income. I was under pressure from the authorities to provide information - they thought I was involved in some hanky panky. After some initial corresponding, I stopped completely as I felt I was going to have a total breakdown and that would not benifit anyone.
    Anyway, it has been years now and I have not heard from anyone!! I dont know if I have been denaturalized (either through administrative proceedings or through a court) without any notice or documentation sent to me.
    Any suggestions before I contact the authorities or speak to a lawyer? How can I find out if I am still a US citizen? I dont want to have to face removal as I am basically alone and not ready for that as yet. Your help will be appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Frank32825

  2. #2
    Hi! This is my first post here. Decided to do some research before contacting the BICE or an immigration lawyer.
    I became a US citizen in Dec 2001, got my certificate and US pasport. Then in 2003 I was served with a search warrant and my pasport and IDs seized. It says in the warrant that I was investigated by the JTTF for a period of six months prior to that. I was threatened with the revocation of my citizenship and removal or deportation. After a while, some of my documents were returned and I was able to get a drivers license again. I had just undergone a stressfull seperation from my wife and basically went into a depression for almost 2 years. With no job or assistance I survived on one meal a day and was in terrible shape. Needless to say I became broke paying all my outgoing without any income. I was under pressure from the authorities to provide information - they thought I was involved in some hanky panky. After some initial corresponding, I stopped completely as I felt I was going to have a total breakdown and that would not benifit anyone.
    Anyway, it has been years now and I have not heard from anyone!! I dont know if I have been denaturalized (either through administrative proceedings or through a court) without any notice or documentation sent to me.
    Any suggestions before I contact the authorities or speak to a lawyer? How can I find out if I am still a US citizen? I dont want to have to face removal as I am basically alone and not ready for that as yet. Your help will be appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Frank32825

  3. #3
    It is not possible for any branch of the Immigration departments (however they're called now, they change names like every few months these days) to administratively revoke your U.S. citizenship. Only a federal court judge can do that after sufficient evidence is presented and after you had a lawfull trial. Where you homeless during that time? If not, I would assume that the court can't revoke your citizenship in absentee. Talk to an immigration attoreny and my guess is that you should apply for a copy of "Certificate of Naturalization" (the one that you should have received during your naturalization. Good luck!

  4. #4
    Thanks Layton2000!
    I have my certificate, its my passport that they have retained!! I just missed a family reunion in October and since I am the only child, it kinda ****ed. No I was not homeless and have lived at the same address for 10 years. I went back to college to get my mind straight and finished my program - paid my fees and rent and other expences all without a penny in unemployment or food stamps!! Its my pride that has prevented me from asking for my documents back. But, after all, it does not bother them - only me!!

    Thanks,

    Frank32825

  5. #5
    wow, the infamous FBI JTTF, act of terrorism....... what crowd you been hanging out man?

    Were you ever been tried? Case dismissed? Or they simply interrogate?

    I'm willing to bet that your citizenship hasn't been revoked. Otherwise, a deportation order will be served to you by now, since your residence has always remained the same.

  6. #6
    Pretty exciting dont you think!! Marmaduk, the best part is I am Zoroastrian with a Hindu mother and Bene Israeli (Jewish) step father. Born in a Catholic hospital, with a private school education up to 7th grade, then Jesuit from 8th to 10th grade and then Protestant from 11th to 12th grade. One would imagine I would be the last person to affiliate myself with Islam, let alone muslim terrorists. But, the fact is most people here might not be able to differentiate between a Pathan, a Sikh, and an Arab. To top it all, there are white Americans wanting to overthrow or harm our fedral system/government too. So, in defence of the authorities - they are only trying to do their job.
    In any case, I found this on a US citizenship website:

    Denaturalization

    1. Denaturalization means the revocation of naturalization that was improperly granted for one or more statutory reasons. It can be initiated by a U.S. Attorney (when the INS brings facts to his attention) by filing proceedings in an appropriate U.S. District Court, or it can be initiated by the INS and decided in administrative proceedings. Although procedures vary, the statutory grounds for denaturalization are similar.

    2. The grounds for denaturalization

    a. Under Sec. 340(a) of the INA, summarized as follows:

    1) Illegal Procurement of Naturalization

    "A naturalization is illegally procured when it fails to satisfy a statutory prerequisite before and including the time of application for naturalization (e.g., misrepresentation or concealment on original visa application, without which residence status in the U.S. as a prerequisite for naturalization would not have possible)." It should be noted that the Supreme Court upheld denaturalization in Fedorenko v. United States on the finding that he had been illegally naturalized because he had not been lawfully admitted to the U.S. for permanent residence.

    2) Procured by Concealment of a Material Fact or by Willful Misrepresentation

    a) In Kungys v. United States a deeply divided Court stated that in a naturalization context a misrepresentation or concealment could be regarded as material if it "was predictably capable of affecting, i.e. had a natural tendency to affect, the official decision." Since Kungys's misrepresentations about his date and place of birth were not relevant to his eligibility for citizenship and did not meet the materiality test, they were not as a matter of law "material." There remained, however, whether his misstatements would support a finding of lack of good moral character by "one who has given false testimony for the purpose of obtaining any benefits under [the INA]." The Court remanded the case for a determination on whether the misrepresentation amounted to testimony.

    b) Cases have held that silence does not amount to "concealment of a material fact," especially where a question was ambiguous or misunderstood.

    b. Sec. 340(h) of the INA is much broader than Sec. 340(a) in that it allows the Attorney General "to correct, reopen, alter, modify, or vacate an order" naturalizing a person. Regulations provide the grounds for administrative denaturalization if the Service obtains evidence which:

    1) Shows the Service granted the application by mistake, or

    2) Was not known to the Service Officer during the naturalization proceeding, and

    a) Would have had a material effect on the outcome of the original application, and

    b) Would have proven that the application was based on fraud or misrepresentation or concealment of a material fact, or that the applicant was not, in fact, eligible for naturalization.


    3. Procedure

    a. The burden of proof on the government in judicial proceedings for denaturalization is proof by evidence that is clear, unequivocal, and
    convincing, and which does not leave the issue at doubt. The burden of proof on the INS in administrative proceedings for denaturalization is proof by evidence that is clear, convincing, and unequivocal.

    b. There is no statute of limitations for the U.S. Attorney's filing a suit in U.S. District Court. There is a two-year limit from the date of the order admitting a person to citizenship for administrative denaturalization.

    c. Procedures for denaturalization:

    1) Administrative: A written notice of intent to reopen the naturalization proceedings is prepared which states the grounds for reopening, all evidence that warrants reopening, and the "applicant's" right to respond and request a hearing. Personal service is made upon the "applicant" under 8 CFR 103.5(a)(2), which in practice is by U.S. mail, certified, with return receipt requested. The "applicant" has 60 days to respond in writing to request a hearing (or to request to withdraw the "application"), and the response can include any statements or additional evidence the respondent wishes to submit. A written decision on the reopened naturalization proceedings is to be rendered within 180 days of service of the notice of intent to revoke naturalization, where practical, and it shall be served on the "applicant". Alternatively, after receiving a response requesting a hearing, the District Director may terminate administrative proceedings and refer the matter to the U.S. Attorney for judicial proceedings if the "applicant" raises a "genuine factual issue...so that resolution of the factual issue will depend on the credibility of witnesses testifying under oath and subject to cross-examination."

    2) Judicial: The naturalized person is given 60 days after personal notice to answer the government's complaint. If he is absent from the U.S. or the judicial district where he last resided, then service is made by publication or by the laws of the State where the suit is brought. The case proceeds under normal federal procedural law.

    d. Appeal from a District Court judgement revoking naturalization is to the appropriate federal circuit court of appeals and then by review to the U.S. Supreme Court. Appeal from an administrative order revoking naturalization is to the Administrative Appeals Unit ("AAU") and must be filed within 30 days on INS Form I-290B with a fee of $110.00. Appeal from an adverse AAU decision is to the Federal District Court, and the hearing is de novo.

    e. The obvious consequence of denaturalization is that the once-citizen is now again an alien, effective (retroactively, if an appeal were taken) to the date of the original order of naturalization. Depending upon the grounds for naturalization, the once-citizen may be subject to deportation proceedings. Where the denaturalization was based upon actual concealment or misrepresentation, derivative rights are extinguished. Where it was based upon "presumptive fraud" derivative rights are extinguished, unless the derivative is residing in the U.S. at the time of denaturalization. Where it was based upon "illegality," derivative rights are not affected.

  7. #7
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by marmaduk:
    wow, the infamous FBI JTTF, act of terrorism....... what crowd you been hanging out man?

    Were you ever been tried? Case dismissed? Or they simply interrogate?

    I'm willing to bet that your citizenship hasn't been revoked. Otherwise, a deportation order will be served to you by now, since your residence has always remained the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    More than likely, someone reported to the FBI or some other governmental agency, that the OP was a terrorist. My bet is the ex-wife. Of course they had to investigate, give the bad cop impression, return the documents, and then leave the "person of interest" hanging. Best advise is to contact a lawyer ASAP to either have the FBI conclude the investigation or charge with a crime.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

  8. #8
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by frank32825:
    Hi! This is my first post here. Decided to do some research before contacting the BICE or an immigration lawyer.
    I became a US citizen in Dec 2001, got my certificate and US pasport. Then in 2003 I was served with a search warrant and my pasport and IDs seized. It says in the warrant that I was investigated by the JTTF for a period of six months prior to that. I was threatened with the revocation of my citizenship and removal or deportation. After a while, some of my documents were returned and I was able to get a drivers license again. I had just undergone a stressfull seperation from my wife and basically went into a depression for almost 2 years. With no job or assistance I survived on one meal a day and was in terrible shape. Needless to say I became broke paying all my outgoing without any income. I was under pressure from the authorities to provide information - they thought I was involved in some hanky panky. After some initial corresponding, I stopped completely as I felt I was going to have a total breakdown and that would not benifit anyone.
    Anyway, it has been years now and I have not heard from anyone!! I dont know if I have been denaturalized (either through administrative proceedings or through a court) without any notice or documentation sent to me.
    Any suggestions before I contact the authorities or speak to a lawyer? How can I find out if I am still a US citizen? I dont want to have to face removal as I am basically alone and not ready for that as yet. Your help will be appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Frank32825 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Best advice is to get a lawyer if the incident is more than a year or two old. Even it is fairly recent, I would still get a lawyer to have the FBI either make a conclusion or charge with a crime.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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