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Thread: F1 to labor certificate

  1. #1
    hi,,
    i am really confused about a lot of things,
    i am an accountant came to US with Visitor visa and changed it F1 student status,,,

    i am willing that after sometime i will get the H1-B visa but i heard that there is a good option for me is to get the labor certificate instead of the H1 and it`s permanent and can get it any time but it`s little bit complex and need a good attorney ...

    is this true or not? and if it`s a good chance for me , can i change the F1 to Labor certificate ?

  2. #2
    It's a bit hard from where or how to start to help you understand the whole thing, Kid (no offense meant please). I mean you're like a kid who listens to other sweet, innocent kids.

    You don't "change" your F1 status to Alien Employment Certification (Labor Certification or PERM as it's called nowadays).

    You said you came in with a B1/B2 visa then changed it to F1. You may eventually "change" it to H1B. Ok, indeed, that's called a "change" of status from one nonimmigrant visa class to another.

    But PERM is not an "event" like changing of status discussed above, but rather it's a "process." And yes, you're right, it's a little bit complex process. But, very important, it doesn't give a nonimmigrant alien like you any immigration status by itself. Instead, the nonimmigrant status that you hold now (F1) should "remain valid" in the whole duration of the PERM process and beyond.

    Basically, in PERM, a US employer initiates this process with the Department of Labor documenting the fact that he/she has a vacancy but no willing, able, qualified or available US worker could be found, after conducting various recruitment methods, to fill up the job. But one alien worker (it's you) possesses the qualification to meet the job requirements and who is willing to accept the job offer. If everything is satisfied, then the DOL issues the certification.

    The certified PERM serves as the main supporting document for the Form I-140 (Immigrant Petition for Alien Worker) that the same employer files on your behalf to the USCIS (under the DHS). And if you're lucky enough that an immigrant visa is available for your job category at that time, you may concurrently file Forms I-485 (green card), I-131 (advance parole), and I-765 (work permit).

    But I repeat, very important, your F1 status should remain valid all through out this whole process. So your kid friend is right. Any question?

  3. #3
    you right, i am a kid with everything concerns about the U.S. law and documents cause it has lots of process and ways to go that`s confuse me..

    thanks for the information. i need to know can i apply for it anytime of it has to be like H1B at specific month? after i get the PERM i have to stick with my F1 cause its my status, right? how long it takes until i can get the green card and get free of F1. also the PERM itself , how long it takes to get it?...

  4. #4
    Originally posted by samste:
    you right, i am a kid with everything concerns about the U.S. law and documents cause it has lots of process and ways to go that`s confuse me..

    thanks for the information. i need to know can i apply for it anytime of it has to be like H1B at specific month? after i get the PERM i have to stick with my F1 cause its my status, right? how long it takes until i can get the green card and get free of F1. also the PERM itself , how long it takes to get it?...
    Employement based GC takes years to get approved. Having F1 and trying to apply through Employement based GC has more risks involved in it.

    Unlike H1 /L1 based visas, F1 is not duel intent in nature. Filing a immigration petition (PERM, I-140, I-485) is going to raise questions about your intent behind having an F1.

    First even to get a PERM, your company has to demonstrate that there is no competent American available for the job you are seeking. Then they have to apply for I-140 for you. If your Priority Date is current during that time based on your country of origin, you may apply for I-485.

    Though PERM is getting approved much faster now, there is a huge backlog during I-485 stage.

    It is safer for you to apply for H1B and then continue this process.

    This is just an advice and please consult with an immigration attorney.

  5. #5
    Retro: you're right, risky, yet possible - which one isn't (nahhh, just kidding). The Dual Intent Doctrine issue was raised multiple times in various seminars, (tele)conferences, liaisons (with DOL/USCIS), etc. that I know of especially in the early stages of PERM implementation in March of 2005. I'm personally not clear on how the dilemma was resolved, but senior mentors from the back doors were too insistent on pushing younger b utts to say go, go, try, try.... I mean PERM for aliens who have B1/B2's, F1's, M1's, TN's, etc. (even EWI's)! And believe you me, some of them do slide successfully, mind you, even under EB-2. But beware, violations of the rule involving immigrant intent within the 30-60 day window is not yet tolerated nor forgiven. So, what I'm saying is that, amidst the tempestuous employment-based immigration processing climate, our government (sometimes) takes up some lessons and learns from them to the letters. The classic example is the Traditional Laborcert national backlog that the DOL (Dallas/Philadelphia Backlog Elimination Centers) successfully cleared just a few days ago. In the present PERM day and age, the DOL/USCIS tandem (with the ghost of the backlog of old behind) probably says: no, not again, just raise up the iron curtain!

  6. #6
    i am really grateful for all the help here..

    i am on F1 student status and i need to go back to my country to get married. so i want to take from 3-5 months vacation. is it possible to go and come back and keeping my same student status. like any kind of process that give me permission to do so without starting the F1 all over again when i come back..

  7. #7
    It depends whether an F-1 visa is currently stamped on your passport or not. You said you initially came in as a tourist. Did you change your status within the US or did you consular process it back in your home country? If you have it in your passport you can go and come back during validity. If not you have to apply for an F-1 visa at the US consulate in your country. You could even bring your future spouse with you on an F-2 visa. But the shorter your absence from school would be, the better. Remember, you're a student.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
    Retro: you're right, risky, yet possible - which one isn't (nahhh, just kidding). The Dual Intent Doctrine issue was raised multiple times in various seminars, (tele)conferences, liaisons (with DOL/USCIS), etc. that I know of especially in the early stages of PERM implementation in March of 2005. I'm personally not clear on how the dilemma was resolved, but senior mentors from the back doors were too insistent on pushing younger b utts to say go, go, try, try.... I mean PERM for aliens who have B1/B2's, F1's, M1's, TN's, etc. (even EWI's)! And believe you me, some of them do slide successfully, mind you, even under EB-2. But beware, violations of the rule involving immigrant intent within the 30-60 day window is not yet tolerated nor forgiven. So, what I'm saying is that, amidst the tempestuous employment-based immigration processing climate, our government (sometimes) takes up some lessons and learns from them to the letters. The classic example is the Traditional Laborcert national backlog that the DOL (Dallas/Philadelphia Backlog Elimination Centers) successfully cleared just a few days ago. In the present PERM day and age, the DOL/USCIS tandem (with the ghost of the backlog of old behind) probably says: no, not again, just raise up the iron curtain!
    I do agree that there are many applied for PERM from other categories and successfully completed the process. GC is basically for the future job and it may be possible for them to argue it that way to get a successful verdict. The only issue is traveling outside and their ability to come back to US.

    Based on my knowledge, if you do not travel till you get AP after I-485 there is no issue. If you start a PERM and left US on a F1, B1/B2 visas and trying to enter based on the old stamping, you may encounter issues at POE. Is that not a violation of the original intent those visa's provided?

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
    The classic example is the Traditional Laborcert national backlog that the DOL (Dallas/Philadelphia Backlog Elimination Centers) successfully cleared just a few days ago. In the present PERM day and age, the DOL/USCIS tandem (with the ghost of the backlog of old behind) probably says: no, not again, just raise up the iron curtain!
    DOL created these backlog elimination centers only to create more mess in the EB immigration process. Some of them are:

    1. No receipt of 45 day letter
    2. Closing of valid Labors stating that no return of 45 days letters followed by litigations
    3. Little or no information regarding status.
    4. Flooding of old labor leading to labor substitution rackets
    5. Due to heavy backlog and processing time, many who applied either moved to other processes (like RIR / PERM) or no longer interested, resulting in wrong projection of demand leading to heavy retrogression.

    [Please look in to the July visa bulletin fiasco]

    All EB immigrants are really happy to see the closure of this elimination center. All it did was to create more headache than resolving it.

    All in all, EB immigration is still a mess. Unfortunately this is only 3% of the entire immigration and does not have the clout for much lobby and always bundled with illegal immigration

    Thanks

  10. #10
    Originally posted by Retro-affect:

    I do agree that there are many applied for PERM from other categories and successfully completed the process. GC is basically for the future job and it may be possible for them to argue it that way to get a successful verdict. The only issue is traveling outside and their ability to come back to US.

    Based on my knowledge, if you do not travel till you get AP after I-485 there is no issue. If you start a PERM and left US on a F1, B1/B2 visas and trying to enter based on the old stamping, you may encounter issues at POE. Is that not a violation of the original intent those visa's provided?

    Thanks
    Now you raised another sticky issue, which is foreign travel while the immigrant visa process (PERM/AOS) is ongoing. Let's take the OP's case for example. It smacks of poor judgment on his part if he would get into the PERM process before marrying his girlfriend back home and coming back for his studies. It should be one after the other. And that, I think, is what he intends to do. That's based on his implied plans of going, coming, and staying.

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