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Thread: DREAM Act to get one Last Push During Lame Duck Session

  1. #21
    I would support the Dream Act if the legislation included provision to stop the situation re occurring, otherwise I see no point.

    As far as the other comments made:

    The only country they have known, well the same can be said about their parents but that did not stop them leaving the only country they knew.

    No choice as a child, the law recognizes that and illegal presence does not start incurring until the age of 18.

    I have a major problem with those undocumented being given in state tuition rates when USC's do not all qualify. They should have to at least pay International rates.

  2. #22
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then they would not qualify for the program, the same as citizen would not qualify for the military. So it is not a solution for them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Then there should be an alternate path to a green card for the kids who don't qualify for military service.

    Similar to what Houston said, I don't think the people who are against Dream Act need to lose any sleep. It has little chance of passing anytime soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as?

    Remember, Dream act only will cover some , not all to get greencards. It was not intended to make all illegal kids legal. Only some.

    So are you asking that Dream act make All kids brought here legal regardless? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as requiring them to get a four-year degree so they have a better chance at succeeding in the future. I'm not in favor of being punitive toward the kids who had no say in coming to the US; however, I understand that to make it palatable to the 'anti' side of the house, provisions need to be met in order for the kids to qualify for a green card. Military service or a four-year education (with a diploma) sound like two viable options to me.

  3. #23
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Houston:
    This is not about finding a standard or about crafting some solution based on difficult economic realities. What's going on here is plain and obvious.

    People want somebody to blame. You (in general) blame the illegals, easy target, they can't even understand what you're saying, they can't defend themselves, they can't take action.



    <span class="ev_code_RED">What a cro.ck. They understand just fine. The problem is that they feel entitlement to free and freebies. They want zero effort with maximum return. They are partly to blame for depressed wages and crimes, and scams, identity theft etc. big problems here in this country. oppressed my arse.</span>

    You want to feel superior. Again, easy. Take the illegals, have them oppressed, no matter how hard they work or what they do, they'll never be as good as you. So you can throw your life away drinking and doing speed***** but rest assured, you'll never hit rock bottom, they do that for you.

    <span class="ev_code_RED">Illegals opressed. what a joke. They shouldnt be here. They broke into the country and then proceeded to set up their own rules of work and living. Plotted to take jobs and work for cheap in order to secure and keep those jobs. It was voluntary</span>

    You want to cleanse your neighborhood and make it all while without a lawsuit? Easy, use immigration as you excuse, then when you lose in court, you'll blame the illegals for the court costs.


    <span class="ev_code_RED">Wow. you have issues, and unfounded ones I may add. I agree that rentals should be available to us citizens on a first basis, then legal residents. Illegals should not be in the mix, as it is taking away from them. I dont ever want to be in a situation where housing is not availble to us or legal person because it is rented out to people that should not even be here. </span>

    You want to eliminate the effect of Brown v. Board? Kick illegals out of the school, that'll make you feel better...
    <span class="ev_code_red">
    Their presence should not become a detriment to our education system with the associated costs. and the free lunches being picked up by the taxpayer. Parents should be made to fork out $$</span>

    And the saddest and most ridiculous of them all... immigrants against immigrants... Legal immigrants and those who took amnesty in 86, for them, this is a club, a personal victory... they don't want others to have that because then, they themselves wouldn't be so "special"....

    <span class="ev_code_RED">What is so sad about immigrants against illegals? Now I am with you on the 86 amnesty illegal folks who took advantage. I probably understand where they are coming from though, I suppose it is about the numbers that would become legal. I guess. I did not know that the 86 crew was against another amnesty.</span>

    Just hypocrisy, racism, ignorance and hate all combined into one little package that's DESTROYING this country.


    <span class="ev_code_RED">Back this statement up with facts that it is destroying this country. I see our government not enforcing laws (hypocrisy)and letting foreigners make their own rules to gain control of this country as the real path to destruction. It has nothing to do with racism. WE as americans are the ignorant ones if we cannot see this.</span>
    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

  4. #24
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then they would not qualify for the program, the same as citizen would not qualify for the military. So it is not a solution for them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Then there should be an alternate path to a green card for the kids who don't qualify for military service.

    Similar to what Houston said, I don't think the people who are against Dream Act need to lose any sleep. It has little chance of passing anytime soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as?

    Remember, Dream act only will cover some , not all to get greencards. It was not intended to make all illegal kids legal. Only some.

    So are you asking that Dream act make All kids brought here legal regardless? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as requiring them to get a four-year degree so they have a better chance at succeeding in the future. I'm not in favor of being punitive toward the kids who had no say in coming to the US; however, I understand that to make it palatable to the 'anti' side of the house, provisions need to be met in order for the kids to qualify for a green card. Military service or a four-year education (with a diploma) sound like two viable options to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



    Are you saying that the 4 year military active service that I proposed is punitive?

    Also, I may be open to 4 year degree program but only at international tuition like Theone. No pell grants, no financial aid should be available. Parents have to pay for tuition. No social security issued so kids can work illegal, and no work study programs available in this instance. Completion of degree necessary and community service hours completion in order to qualify for greencard.

    What are your feelings on this?

  5. #25
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then they would not qualify for the program, the same as citizen would not qualify for the military. So it is not a solution for them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Then there should be an alternate path to a green card for the kids who don't qualify for military service.

    Similar to what Houston said, I don't think the people who are against Dream Act need to lose any sleep. It has little chance of passing anytime soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as?

    Remember, Dream act only will cover some , not all to get greencards. It was not intended to make all illegal kids legal. Only some.

    So are you asking that Dream act make All kids brought here legal regardless? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as requiring them to get a four-year degree so they have a better chance at succeeding in the future. I'm not in favor of being punitive toward the kids who had no say in coming to the US; however, I understand that to make it palatable to the 'anti' side of the house, provisions need to be met in order for the kids to qualify for a green card. Military service or a four-year education (with a diploma) sound like two viable options to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



    Are you saying that the 4 year military active service that I proposed is punitive?

    Also, I may be open to 4 year degree program but only at international tuition like Theone. No pell grants, no financial aid should be available. Parents have to pay for tuition. No social security issued so kids can work illegal, and no work study programs available in this instance. Completion of degree necessary and community service hours completion in order to qualify for greencard.

    What are your feelings on this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Nobody's talking here about giving grants or checks or money or some sort of advantage. Just a FAIR chance that recognizes who's REALLY to blame for what those kids are going through.

  6. #26
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then they would not qualify for the program, the same as citizen would not qualify for the military. So it is not a solution for them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Then there should be an alternate path to a green card for the kids who don't qualify for military service.

    Similar to what Houston said, I don't think the people who are against Dream Act need to lose any sleep. It has little chance of passing anytime soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as?

    Remember, Dream act only will cover some , not all to get greencards. It was not intended to make all illegal kids legal. Only some.

    So are you asking that Dream act make All kids brought here legal regardless? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Such as requiring them to get a four-year degree so they have a better chance at succeeding in the future. I'm not in favor of being punitive toward the kids who had no say in coming to the US; however, I understand that to make it palatable to the 'anti' side of the house, provisions need to be met in order for the kids to qualify for a green card. Military service or a four-year education (with a diploma) sound like two viable options to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



    Are you saying that the 4 year military active service that I proposed is punitive?

    Also, I may be open to 4 year degree program but only at international tuition like Theone. No pell grants, no financial aid should be available. Parents have to pay for tuition. No social security issued so kids can work illegal, and no work study programs available in this instance. Completion of degree necessary and community service hours completion in order to qualify for greencard.

    What are your feelings on this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, I do not think military service is punitive. It should be considered an honor to serve one's country, but it's not for everyone.

    As far as tuition, I believe it would be punitive to make a Dream Act kid pay out-of-state tuition if he or she attended college in his or her home state. However, I do agree they shouldn't qualify for any special grants, scholarships or other monies that should be reserved for legal residents. So, maybe we meet halfway on this point?

  7. #27
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No, I do not think military service is punitive. It should be considered an honor to serve one's country, but it's not for everyone.

    As far as tuition, I believe it would be punitive to make a Dream Act kid pay out-of-state tuition if he or she attended college in his or her home state. However, I do agree they shouldn't qualify for any special grants, scholarships or other monies that should be reserved for legal residents. So, maybe we meet halfway on this point? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am happy we are compromising here. However, I would like you to consider that "in state tuition " is only available to LEGAL residents. The illegal students should not under any circumstance be in competiton with legal resident seats in the college. In state tuition would have them taking seats that would normally be available to legal residents. This would be unfair to americans. Once they complete their 4 year degree and obtain greencard, then and only then should they have that priv.

    These illegal students( who are basically being able to become F1 students with out leaving ethe country and getting a ten year bar) are being exempted from most uscis standards.

    Should they also have to show financial responsibilty to afford tutition like other f1 students, yes I think so. what do you think?

  8. #28
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
    This discussion is so absurd that Salvador Dali would be proud of you.

    In order for a law to be consistent, all encompassing, effective, timeless and practically workable, it cannot contain provisions that don't apply uniformly across the board.

    Let me substantiate. If you want to require mandatory military service, it won't apply to all kids.


    <span class="ev_code_RED">I wish your reading comprehension skills would improve iperson. My Dream act as proposed is a voluntary program available for illegal kids of illegal parents. It would be 4 years active miltiary service , after completion they would receive a greencard and a path to citizenship. In addition they would have GI benefit avaialable for them to go to college if they desire. free i might add. </span>


    Not those under 18 years of age. Not those handicapped, not those with mental issues, etc. Not to all female kids who are not suitable to serve in the military by nature. The list can be expanded into a myriad of circumstances.
    If you still insist on this solution, propose how to consistently deal with those circumstances without running into absurdities and slippery slopes. What kind of a legal status do you propose for the kids ages 0-18 before they are eligible to start the military service?


    <span class="ev_code_RED">None of course. same as now.

    18 is when they are subject to removal and that is when the relief is available</span>


    You would have to create an intermediary status, which would create a legal limbo nothing short of 'detention' currently enjoyed by terrorist suspects and 'enemy combatants'. Mark the unconstitutionality of it- absence of due process.

    <span class="ev_code_RED">Nope. NO intermediate status is needed. 18 is eligible for military. plain and simple</span>

    You want to 'punish' the kids, somehow, some way. Okay, send them to death is your prima choice.

    <span class="ev_code_RED">Serving in the military is an honor according to american standards. It is not punishment as you imply. You do not have allegience to this country and if joining the military is "sending kids to their death" truly, you are one of the ones that give that "lip service " oath allegience mentality.</span>
    Then why not create special detention facilities. It's been done in the past. They called them gas chambers one time before.
    Nothing will please the likes of 4now short of a final solution.

    <span class="ev_code_RED">This is amazing. 4 years miltiary to fight for this country is too much to ask for a greencard? Now the miliary is a detention center and gas chamber?


    You see Solaris, I give you a solution, and you dont want to accept a reasonable and realistic one as I have proposed. You just want to give away a greencard with no basis.
    </span>



    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

  9. #29
    I asked you before, 4now, what about the parents?

    First, you want kids to apply, KNOWING they'll have to reveal information about the parents that will get them deported.

    You want kids to go fight for a country that will deport their parents? You want them to fight for a country that thinks innocent kids are to blame? I know we all like the 2x1 deals specially now during the holidays, but this is 2 pay for what one did, kids and parents both pay for what the parents did.

    Yeah right, would you?

    Back in the day, some people were "SENTENCED" to join and serve. But beyond that, what happens to the handicapped? What happens to those who can't serve because of a physical impediment? Is this a nazi thing that will "pardon" only the physically fit?

    Don't give the kids in-state tuition. Ok, how's that not punitive? Why do you insist on blaming a kid for what he didn't do? I agree, don't cut them a check and don't give them a grant, but basic help, is that too much?

    Again, this is about creating a system that's so tough only a handful will benefit from it, this is not about solving the problem, it's about creating some difficult process so we can all sit down and watch them suffer, that way we'll feel good about throwing them a visa at the end of the process. Sweet.

  10. #30
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No, I do not think military service is punitive. It should be considered an honor to serve one's country, but it's not for everyone.

    As far as tuition, I believe it would be punitive to make a Dream Act kid pay out-of-state tuition if he or she attended college in his or her home state. However, I do agree they shouldn't qualify for any special grants, scholarships or other monies that should be reserved for legal residents. So, maybe we meet halfway on this point? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am happy we are compromising here. However, I would like you to consider that "in state tuition " is only available to LEGAL residents. The illegal students should not under any circumstance be in competiton with legal resident seats in the college. In state tuition would have them taking seats that would normally be available to legal residents. This would be unfair to americans. Once they complete their 4 year degree and obtain greencard, then and only then should they have that priv.

    These illegal students( who are basically being able to become F1 students with out leaving ethe country and getting a ten year bar) are being exempted from most uscis standards.

    Should they also have to show financial responsibilty to afford tutition like other f1 students, yes I think so. what do you think? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am of the opinion that most illegals are paying state and property taxes in some form. That being said, most of these kids should be able to reap the benefits of in-state tuition rates. Perhaps proof of tax payments should be added into the equation? Also, length of time in the US should be considered as well. In-state rates should be reserved for those kids who completed their primary education in the US as well. Does this sound fair?

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