ILW.COM - the immigration portal Immigration Daily

Home Page


Immigration Daily

Archives

Processing times

Immigration forms

Discussion board

Resources

Blogs

Twitter feed

Immigrant Nation

Attorney2Attorney

CLE Workshops

Immigration books

Advertise on ILW

VIP Network

EB-5

移民日报

About ILW.COM

Connect to us

Make us Homepage

Questions/Comments


SUBSCRIBE



The leading
immigration law
publisher - over
50000 pages of
free information!
Copyright
1995-
ILW.COM,
American
Immigration LLC.

Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: By what "right" are these folks illegal

  1. #1
    I think this guy/gal has hit the nail on the head.

    .... our individual rights exist by the very fact of our existance as thinking human beings, and that these rights are not the gift of kings or congressmen.

    Rights do not flow to us from government, but in fact governments are formed by men as an artificial construct to help us protect those rights, and well-constructed governments, like ours, are carefully limited in their powers to avoid stifling the rights we have inherently as human beings.

    Do you see where this is going? The individual rights we hold dear are our rights as human beings, NOT as citizens. They flow from our very existence, not from our government. As human beings, we have the right to assemble with whomever we want and to speak our minds. We have the right to live free of force or physical coercion from other men. We have the right to make mutually beneficial arrangements with other men, arrangements that might involve exchanging goods, purchasing shelter, or paying another man an agreed upon rate for his work. We have these rights and more in nature, and have therefore chosen to form governments not to be the source of these rights (for they already existed in advance of governments) but to provide protection of these rights against other men who might try to violate these rights through force or fraud.

    These rights of speech and assembly and commerce and property shouldn't, therefore, be contingent on "citizenship". I should be able, equally, to contract for service from David in New Jersey or Lars in Sweden. David or Lars, who are equally human beings, have the equal right to buy my property, if we can agree to terms. If he wants to get away from cold winters in Sweden, Lars can contract with a private airline to fly here, contract with another person to rent an apartment or buy housing, contract with a third person to provide his services in exchange for wages. But Lars can't do all these things today, and is excluded from these transactions just because he was born over some geographic line? To say that Lars or any other "foreign" resident has less of a right to engage in these decisions, behaviors, and transactions than a person born in the US is to imply that the US government is somehow the source of the right to pursue these activities, WHICH IT IS NOT.

    http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/04/immigration_and.html

  2. #2
    I think this guy/gal has hit the nail on the head.

    .... our individual rights exist by the very fact of our existance as thinking human beings, and that these rights are not the gift of kings or congressmen.

    Rights do not flow to us from government, but in fact governments are formed by men as an artificial construct to help us protect those rights, and well-constructed governments, like ours, are carefully limited in their powers to avoid stifling the rights we have inherently as human beings.

    Do you see where this is going? The individual rights we hold dear are our rights as human beings, NOT as citizens. They flow from our very existence, not from our government. As human beings, we have the right to assemble with whomever we want and to speak our minds. We have the right to live free of force or physical coercion from other men. We have the right to make mutually beneficial arrangements with other men, arrangements that might involve exchanging goods, purchasing shelter, or paying another man an agreed upon rate for his work. We have these rights and more in nature, and have therefore chosen to form governments not to be the source of these rights (for they already existed in advance of governments) but to provide protection of these rights against other men who might try to violate these rights through force or fraud.

    These rights of speech and assembly and commerce and property shouldn't, therefore, be contingent on "citizenship". I should be able, equally, to contract for service from David in New Jersey or Lars in Sweden. David or Lars, who are equally human beings, have the equal right to buy my property, if we can agree to terms. If he wants to get away from cold winters in Sweden, Lars can contract with a private airline to fly here, contract with another person to rent an apartment or buy housing, contract with a third person to provide his services in exchange for wages. But Lars can't do all these things today, and is excluded from these transactions just because he was born over some geographic line? To say that Lars or any other "foreign" resident has less of a right to engage in these decisions, behaviors, and transactions than a person born in the US is to imply that the US government is somehow the source of the right to pursue these activities, WHICH IT IS NOT.

    http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/04/immigration_and.html
    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  3. #3
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
    I fully agree. You've got my 100% support on this. It is the belief that I have been holding onto steadfastly for years, and you could have even called me an anarchist. Which is fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Anarchist? Maybe strict Constitutionalist, Federalist, or Libertarian.
    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  4. #4
    Someone12
    Guest
    however, not everyone has the 'right' to enter, live and work in the US of A....there is NO such right.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Someone12:
    however, not everyone has the 'right' to enter, live and work in the US of A....there is NO such right.[/QUO

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter ; abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Declaration of Independence as originally written by Thomas Jefferson, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers


    I guess this concept if a bit difficult for the average couch potatoe to digest... HUMAN RIGHTS given not by the government but by the creator

    The "inherent and inalienable rights;" LIFE or the right of a human being to "self sustain" is basically why we have any discussion of ECONOMIC MIGRATION at all.

    The RIGHT TO BE ALIVE, is not a right derived by ths state and should not be interfered with by the state.

    Trying to force people to starve to death because we want soverienty over our borders is why we cannot get a "handle" on migration at our Southern Border. It is like harnessing the wind, or bottling lightening. Make a law against Wind, Fire and Lightning.. see how that works out.

    The other CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION is does the Government have the "right" or authority in the Constitution to interfere with the FREE ASSOCIATION rights of American Citizens?

    Be it Free Market Association, whom I can hire as an employer, Free Association in Relationships, Whom Americans can Marry etc.
    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
    I would definitely say Libertarian about myself.

    Is this you Houston? I have a feeling republicanwriter and Houston might be the same person.




    Republicanwriter- are you sure you are a republican? You sound like a democrat to me. Just curious because I mostly agree with you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    NO I am not Hudson.

    Nope I am "former GOP" very recently. Actually the response of the "compassionate conservatives" is what drove me out of the party.

    I like "thinkers" not whiners. I think the last 8 years have been brutal for the country. The difference between democrat and Republican in terms of Federal Spending is non-exisitant, in fact the Bush administration topped any previous Democratic government on "growing the government".

    Maybe its maturity and mellowing, but I don't give a pumpkin patch what someone else is doing, and I want the government out of my garden. I looked around the party one day, actually it was at a GOP function and I said to myself....

    "is this room a reflection of what Heaven will look like? Will EVERYONE IN HEAVEN BE WHITE, and Old and Angry?" Will all these nasty comments people are making about Hispanics be something that will sit well with God?

    And I answered myself.. no probably Heaven will be ethnically diverse because People are ethnically diverse. God made all people so its reasonable to assume he will invite those of other races to his Heaven.

    I figured if the Party doesn't represent what PEOPLE really are in real life not the white-washed country club version.. maybe its not what God wants for me.

    Unfortunately when I changed my registration I had already picked my screen name.

    I think I am very libertarian leaning.
    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  7. #7
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
    If all countries were as ours where those implied rights are given there would not be a need for borders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    These are not "given" rights. That is the point. These rights are Natural Rights. The government does not "give rights"&gt;
    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  8. #8
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
    I guess I should have clarified. God given rights that our country recognizes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    "right our country Recognizes?" The problem I see with the Immigration debate is the people involved in the debate cannot distinguish facts of nature from man made concepts. ie: "rule of law"

    Immigration / Migration is as old as Man. You cannot control it any more than you can outlaw gravity, stop the Ocean tides, or any other natural phenomena. It is NATURE.

    You cannot "control" nature. You can manage it intelligently (deal with it) but you cannot STOP it.
    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  9. #9
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
    Sure, it is one that our founding fathers chose to accept. They could just have easily said no. Then we would be in league with everyone else out there. Further, it doesn't seem to stop every other country from controlling their tides. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What country is "controlling" its tide? correct that....what country that anyone wants to get in is "controlling" its tide of illegal immigrants?
    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

Similar Threads

  1. COME ON FOLKS HELP ME!
    By dude in forum Immigration Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-16-2004, 04:57 AM
  2. PLESE HELP ME FOLKS!
    By dude in forum Immigration Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-13-2004, 02:54 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-20-2003, 08:54 AM
  4. Come on folks I need some ideas here!!
    By in forum Immigration Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-16-2002, 10:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Put Free Immigration Law Headlines On Your Website

Immigration Daily: the news source for legal professionals. Free! Join 35000+ readers Enter your email address here: