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Thread: "A Day Without a Mexican"

  1. #1
    Granted, I haven't seen the movie yet but I think the whole concept, at least as put forth by the movie's website, is a bit misguided. As someone else posted, people don't want illegals here, regardless of their country of origin.

    Is this movie supposed to make us think, "Ooh, wow, I didn't realize they did so much for us. Now that I understand that, I think it's great that they're being so selfless by breaking the law by coming here for us"...? Come on! I'd happily pay more for services which are generally performed by illegals if it kept more of them out of the state. It's not a racist thing. It's a matter of trying to protect our own quality of life. What's wrong with that?

    I'm anxious to see the film. I'm sure we'll be bombarded with images of restaurants with no one washing dishes, fields of crops going unpicked, lawns being untended. I'm wondering if we'll also see shots of teachers in public schools teaching in front of suddenly UN-crowded, reasonably-sized classes. Will we also see emergency rooms handling actual emergency cases instead of being overcrowded with illegals needing non-emergency free services? Somehow I'm betting such scenes were not part of the script!

    Posted by Mike at May 5, 2004 12:48 AM
    When Vicente Fox states that Mexico's second largest income is money sent from illegal Mexican workers in America (the first is from tequila exports), we have a problem. They don't pay taxes, but they send their kids to our schools. They don't pay taxes, but they use our medical facilities. They don't pay taxes, but they want to complain when a "Latino" isn't "given" a position of authority over someone that deserves it.

    We want to be a nation of equality, but the ones screaming the loudest are the ones trying so hard to push us apart. We have organizations such as LULAC and NAACP that promote very racist agendas. For instance, we have a Miss USA pageant that is not allowed to discriminate base on race, color or creed. There are black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. participants in this pageant. So why is there a need for a Miss Black America pageant? I don't think a Miss White USA pageant would go over too well.

    Let's stop trying to divide ourselves. Everyone should be upset about the illegal immigrants in this country. If you are here legally, great. Don't sneak over here, steal from the US and then send it back to Mexico. Try working on fixing Mexico first.

    Posted by Keith at May 5, 2004 01:25 PM
    We are assuming that Mexicans are only laborers. They are also teachers, doctors, lawyers, police officers, judges, CEO's, business owners, federal agents, actors (Anthony Quinn is Mexican), soldiers (How many "illegal" aliens fought in WWI, WWII, The Korean War, Vietnam, Desert Storm and now Iraq?)

    Every person regardless of their legal status that lives in the United States pays taxes one way or another. If you rent an apartment you pay taxes, how? That property owner has to pay property taxes, with income he earns from the rent that is paid by the occupier. Everytime an undocumented worker shops at a grocery store, department store, gasoline station, car dealership, etc., etc., they are required to pay a sales tax. In Chicago that sales tax is 8.75%.

    They are not here for a free ride and the tens of millions of dollars that they pump into our economy is proof of that.


    7 million dollars in taxes alone are collected from these "freeloaders" from the money they send back to their families in Mexico. Where does this money go? Social service agencies.

    I am sure you wouldn't turn down the almighty US dollar regardless of who is handing it to you.

    So if your concern is that Feds do not collect income tax on a $4.00/hour wage, concern yourself that your aunt/uncle does not pay taxes for these workers that they employ. I think even our President's have employed undocumented gardeners.



    Posted by Cristina at May 6, 2004 09:22 AM
    I am very tired of Feds/Politicians using illegal immigration as a blame for their failed economic policies. It seems that every time our economy is struggling, they use them a scapegoat!... People don't realize, illegal immigrants cannot collect SSN and Unemployment benefits just to name a couple!

    Can't wait to see the film!!!

    California has the world's fifth largest economy...you do the math!

    Posted by Jose at May 6, 2004 06:22 PM
    Well, my heart bleeds for you. Let me help you understand the way it works. Mexicans are welcome into the United States, Illegal Immigrants are not! Mexico is a poor country and United States is rich with opportunity. Who says we have the right to come to this land and put up a fence to keep the rest of the world out of our nest egg? Nobody! However, we put up that fence to protect the interest of this great land. When a mexican comes to the United States and becomes a grass-mower, he is taking away that job from a US citizen, so now the US citizen has to turn to the government for welfare so he can survive. Since most lawn mower operators do not pay taxes, you are not helping to replenish the money the US citizen is using. In turn, since they hired you at a lower wage, you turn to the government for welfare so you can survive. Since you are not paying taxes, nor is the US citizen that is receiving the welfare check, other hard working US citizens are having to pay more to cover both of you. And since a portion of the little amount of money you do make gets wired back to Mexico to help out your relatives there get to the US, we are even more screwed. Then, since you like having so many kids, our tax dollars are going to pay for them to be delivered, raised, educated, until they can get jobs mowing grass. You see, its a circle of life right here in the US. My suggestion, get the education you receive for free here in the USA, and return to Mexico and develope a civilization that has a strong economy. If you did this you will be giving future Mexicans a reason to stay in Mexico and not come to the USA and take your job for less money.

    Posted by A White Guy at May 6, 2004 06:51 PM
    THIS RESPONSE IS TO MIKE. YES, MIKE THERE PROBABLY WILL NOT BE SCENCES WHICH YOU REFERRED TO IN YOUR COMMENTS. BUT HOW ABOUT THE HUNDREDS OF MOVIES AND HISTORY BOOKS THAT KEEP MEXICAN AMERICANS OUT OF AMERICAN HISTORY. WE HAVE BEEN HERE 500 HUNDRED YEARS. THERE IS RECORDED HISTORY THAT MEXICANS SERVED WAY BACK TO THE CIVIL WAR. AND LETS NOT MENTION WORLD WAR I, OH AND WORLD WAR II, OH MAYBE KOREAN WAR,VIETNAM WAR, AND I ALMOST FORGOT IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN? WHY IS THAT NEVER MENTIONED AS BEING LEFT OUT. WE HAVE BEEN PRODUCTIVE AMERICANS SINCE WAY BACK AND STILL GET TREATED LIKE 2ND CLASS CITIZENS. JUST TO MENTION I LOST A DEAR FRIEND IN IRAQ. HE WAS THE FIRST CASUALITY FROM ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA. HIS STORY WAS IN THE PAPERS FOR A WEEK OR SO. JUST TO MENTION TO YOU HE WAS AN A SO CALLED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FROM MEXICO WHO GOT HIS LEGAL RESIDENCE AND GAVE HIS LIFE FOR THIS COUNTRY. DID THIS COUNTRY RECOGNIZE HIM AS AN AMERICAN? WELL JUST TO LET YOU KNOW HE WAS GRANTED HIS CITEZENSHIP AFTER HE HAD DIED! HE HAD TO GIVE UP HIS LIFE, TO BECOME AN AMERICAN. WHY DID THEY NOT GIVE HIM CITIZENSHIP WHEN HE CHOSE TO FIGHT FOR THE U.S. IT TOOK HIS DEATH. WELL HE BE RECOGNIZED IN A MOVIE OR HISTORY BOOK ANY TIME SOON????

    Posted by Art at May 6, 2004 07:24 PM
    The problems, just as the solutions, are not simple. Are the illegals the result of capitalism, which encourages competition and therefore forces lower prices only achieveable with extremely low-cost labor? Is is the fault of the companies who willingly hire illegals, but who are forced to in order to remain competitive? Or is it the fault of people who hire companies that use illegals, or who buy fruit knowing that an illegal picked it? Is it the fault of Americans wanting to pay the lowest price for food, lawn service, etc. which therefore requires cheap labor? Is it Mexico's fault for not doing enough to stimulate their own economy? Perhaps the blame lies with the IMF and the World Bank for forcing Structural Adjustment Policies on Mexico and other Central and South American countries that prevent effective economic recovery and therefore force workers to places such as America. Maybe the US is at fault for not enforcing strict immigration laws, not hiring enough staff to monitor the situation, or not closing known holes in the US/Mexican border. The real answer is that it is for all these reasons and more.

    Also, however, illegals do not, as a general rule, take jobs from Americans. To use the lawn mowing example above, I'll bet 'A White Guy' has little desire to mow lawns and do backbreaking landscaping duties for $5/hr. and no benefits for 60 hours/wk.

    Posted by Jason at May 6, 2004 09:07 PM
    This movie is intended to serve as a reality check of who really makes things tick in California. I should make people stop complaining about illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are the one's who get down and dirty doing the jobs other people don't want. It should already be clear the immigrants do pay taxes. They might not get taxes taken away from their check but those taxes go to social security and these people aren't going to be getting a social security check when they turn 65. Not having illegal immigrants in California is not the interest of the land, it is in California's interest to have these easily exploitable people here. The government knows it doesn't want these people to leave because then all kinds of **** will fall apart (As I presume the movie will portray). Illegal immigrants do not take jobs away because they perform jobs that no one else wants to do. For example, California's economy is based greatly on agriculture and there is always a demand for work but only the illegal immigrant are the ones mostly willing to break their back picking the food you and most of the world eats. I don't see just anyone migrating, season by season, region by region, camp by camp, to be able to survive. People take a lot of **** for granted. This film is intended to take away this "white privelaged" mindset. This country was based on immigrants. There is only one group that is native to this so called AMERICAN land. The way this land has been built has not always been in the most legal way. Realize it!

    Posted by Roberto at May 6, 2004 11:34 PM
    Chingenle ... Now some of you have you wanted ... I hope you enjoy it. Haber como le queda el ojo!

    Posted by El Paisa at May 6, 2004 11:40 PM
    "Why can't we all just get along?"

    Posted by Bonnie at May 7, 2004 12:48 AM
    "Why can't we all just get along?"

    Posted by Bonnie at May 7, 2004 12:49 AM
    I think that people miss the point when they say that native born americans won't do the jobs that illegals do. Before the illegals came in large numbers, just who did the unpleasant work? I'm sure that most contracting (drywall, plumbing, carpentry etc) was done by americans. But now the salaries have been driven down so low by the illegals who will work cheaply that americans cannot compete. Another example are fast food workers. When I was a high school kid, these entry jobs were done by kids. Nowadays, you're lucky to find a fast food place where they speak english. I'm sure that much of the items that they buy are non-taxable items (food) and do not compare to what the average american pays. We also do not use as much of the services and expect the government to pay for them.

    Posted by eric at May 7, 2004 02:55 AM
    People don't see the real value in immigrants. It's not about clean houses, clean cars, or even the low price in fruit, it's about people wanting a better life. I think if people see this movie with an open mind, they'll learn a lot. I live in a community with a lot of immigrants and a lot of work in agriculture and thanks to the immigrants we have affordable fruit, vegetables. Granted, a lot of immigrants aren't here legally but they're paying taxes just like the next person therefore they should have the same rights as the next tax payer. Last I checked, nobody else is willing to do "slave labor" for $50 USD/ day. If somebody is interested, please contact any of the local field foreman's and I'm sure they're willing to give you a chance in reclaiming your country legally.

    Posted by at May 7, 2004 11:35 AM
    Ok, morons. Sales tax is local to the city or county (parish for those in Louisiana). That is why it varies among cities. We are talking Federal taxes. This is what gets taken out of your check. Roberto said above, "They might not get taxes taken away from their check but those taxes go to social security..." No, poor Roberto, it doesn't all go to Social Security. Have you ever looked at your check stub? FICA is the Federal tax and the line for Social Security...well that goes to Social Security. It is the Federal programs that get exploited by illegal immigrants. I know we are a nation of immigrants. There is nothing wrong with that. My family migrated from Germany, but they did it legally. Mexico is a poor, dirty country. When the illegal immigrants come over, they treat this country the same as their native land. They trash it up and junk it out. I see it today in my own back yard. There is neighborhood down the street from where I live that used to be a great, beautiful place to live. Now it is one of the worst neighborhoods in town. You can't drive through there without fear of hitting a toddler in diapers playing in street without a parent in site. Oh, that is another thing, they make the older children watch out for the younger ones. I see this all the time. The mother and father are walking around a store, paying no mind to their 2 year old because he is being looked after by his 7 year old sister.

    I am sorry. I got off on a tangent for a moment. Let me get back. Someone who has migrated over here and has their legal residence is not over here illegally. An illegal immigrant cannot serve in the military. They have to have a social security number because that is how everything works in the military. It takes time for a resident to become a citizen. You first have to live here for 10 years or be married to a citizen for 7 years. It is not like in the movies. You are not instantly a citizen because you marry one. You have to apply for citizenship. You have to take a test and be sworn in. This is how it works. I have a friend from Pakistan. He came here legally 12 years ago on a student visa. He then applied for residency and received it. He has been married to a citizen for 10 years. Last year, he finally got off his butt and applied for citizenship. I am happy to report that he is now a US citizen. He will finally get to vote in the presidential election. Just to let you know...he is voting for Bush.

    Posted by Keith at May 7, 2004 12:53 PM
    I mainly decided to post my opinion as a response to a comment by a guy named Mike... You claim that you don't want illegal immigrants because you want to protect your quality of life, protect it from what or whom?
    There are a lot of other people claiming that illegal immigrants are some sort of threat, when in reality a threat doesn't exist. The average American will not work the same jobs that an immigrant would, especially not for the money they get paid. It's not like jobs are being taken, except maybe from the ****y teenager that wants to get a summer job at Mc Donald's.
    Come on!
    And there are also comments about being in the emergency rooms taking free medical services, what king of an argument is that? Every human being deserves the right to medical treatment, even if they're are poor, even in the legal systems, a person who committed a crime has a right to an appointed attorney.
    At first I thought this movie was a joke but I'm glad it's not, it's time we educate people about being tolerant and respectful, after all this country was established from British immigrants and is the most ethnically diverse country on the planet. It's funny that Americans don't want illegal immigrants in their country but they pride themselves in colonizing and establishing businesses and franchises in foreign countries. Raping other cultures and stripping them of their own natural resources and goods, and infecting the people with false notions of materialism.


    Posted by Blanca at May 7, 2004 03:25 PM
    Well... all these people that think that we Illigal Aliens don't pay taxesare full of ****. This country runs because of immigrants not just Mexicans. People from other parts of the world live here as well. Yet, you only hear about Mexicans this Mexicans that. Everyone in this country is an Immigrant. People also forget that the only people that should be here in California are the Indians and guess who else, Mexicans. Because of politics California was taken away from Mexico.

    Posted by Crossed the border at May 7, 2004 07:17 PM
    THIS GOES TO KEITH:
    YOU JUST SAID RIGHT NOW THAT MEXICO IS A POOR AND DIRTY COUNTRY, BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING...YOU'RE SO IGNORANT. I BET YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO MEXICO SO AS TO TAKE YOUR STATEMENT AS AN ARGUMENT. YOU'RE SO WRONG. YES, I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THERE ARE PLACES THAT ARE NOT THE NICEST PLACES TO LIVE, BUT THERE ARE MANY BEAUTIFUL PLACES THAT YOU CAN'T IMAGINE AND THAT YOU CANNOT EVEN COMPARE WITH THOSE HERE IN THE U.S. PERHAPS YOU THINK THAT YOUR WHITE SKIN GIVES YOU SUPERIORITY, BUT IS NOT WORTH IT WHEN YOU'RE BRAIN IS NOTHING BUT IGNORANCE.

    Posted by at May 7, 2004 07:30 PM
    a day without a mexican is gonna totally kick ***. I just went to the website and downloaded a talk show host on the radio saying, "oh in your movie does it talk about how hospitals will be less congested with latin americans and more with US citizens? Or does it have a seen showing the state budget going up because of taxes that they weren't paying?" After hearing this i wanted to **** my pants out of pure anger. This dumb *** has no idea that all these mexicans that are working here for next to nothing, buy clothes and cds and plenty of other products that have taxes built in. This moron obviously doesn't know that many of the workers here work with fake social security numbers, and that taxes ARE being taken out of their checks AND that lots of mexicans that ARE paying these taxes DO NOT even go to hospitals or take advantage of the other state/federally funded programs becuase they are too afraid they'll get deported. You guys seem like you'd be interested in organizing something, like another day where we all don't go to work or school, or to the store, or anywhere to show these *******s how important we are. or even better we go to the movies on one of these days and watch A Day Without a Mexican and buy no popcorn or anything, we just go to the movie and then return home. Something has to happen because if I hear another dumb *** say that the solution to the state's financial crisis is kicking out illegal immigrants, I'm gonna **** my pants.

    Posted by jeff torres at May 8, 2004 06:33 AM
    Could this become a reality, like in Texas?

    Posted by Beth at May 8, 2004 10:58 AM
    I have been to Mexico several times. Yes there are some beautiful beaches. The problem is that you can't step 3 feet without being harrassed by someone trying to sell you some **** or begging for a handout. Why can't Mexico do something about that? Jeff must be a dumbass. Are you telling me that illegal immigrants are getting fake social security cards so that they can pay taxes?!? That is the craziest thing I ever heard. I say, send them all back. I am tired of this country reforming to please the minority. What ever happened to the majority rules? All of you that don't like my comments can kiss my white, American born, hairy ***.

    Posted by Keith at May 8, 2004 11:07 AM
    Keith, you want to see dirty, just drive by your local white-trash trailer park.You'll see dirty!!

    Posted by at May 8, 2004 08:04 PM
    hey keith,

    ever walked down hollywood blvd or stood around times square? the same americans here try to sell me cheap tourist **** and the same homeless people ask me for some change. what's your point? and mexico has "some beautiful beaches"? you've obviously never explored the area outside of the tourist traps, or bothered to learn about the culture.

    oh, and if the majority rules, soon you'll regret saying that. at the rate our latino and asian populations are growing, we'll be complaining about your lazy white ***.

    Posted by at May 8, 2004 10:16 PM
    yeah people do get fake ssn to pay taxes!

    Posted by Mark at May 8, 2004 10:22 PM
    hey keith, you are saying that you are so proud of being white, however, can you explain to me what are you proud off? when you have a history that goes back what three hundred years of racism, discrimination including genocide. I thought that you knew some history. As far as I am concerned all whites, blacks, asians and mexicans we are all immigrants the question here is who came first. those that came first want to claim this country but this country belong to no-one and to everybody that has a dream.

    And if you do not to be near any mexicans because 'we are so dirty' you better go to another planet because we are every where. Why did your family immigrated to the united states, in search of a better life, guess what, we are following the same path the only difference is the color, racist.

    Posted by Anna at May 9, 2004 12:33 AM
    we should all leave? hahahahaha awwww is the majority scared of going under as the minority? hahaha keith that's too bad man, like anna said, we're EVERYWHERE! if you don't like us, then don't go to japanese restraunts or chinese restraunts or just about any restraunt because roughly 90% of them have mexicans or latin americans in the kitchen you lame ***. and the reason they get the ssn isn't to pay taxes you pathetic piece of white trash, it's so that they can work for people who wouldn't hire them if they didn't have some kinda legal document. duh. we should go back? you guys stole our land, and that stupid *** movie The Alamo is horse **** because you guys encroached on out land crossing down the border roughly 3 or 4 miles and then started killing mexican villagers saying they shot first. please educate yourself before you post, jesus, you're so ignorant it hurts. the numbers are pretty **** clear dude, we're the reason for the Californian economy doing so well. we should go back? ahhahah sure then jobs will open right? and just outta curiousity who's going to do those menial jobs? more importantly even if people are willing to, what company is gonna be willing to pay minimum wage for that work? NONE. they couldn't afford to pay that many workers. and don't be jealous because we have culture, that the Mayans invented the number zero and the aztec calendar is more accurate than the calendars used today. we were figuring stuff like this out, while your primate white ancestors were picking the flees off eachother.

    Posted by jeff torres at May 9, 2004 02:55 AM
    If this movie gets you going, I hear there is a disappearing white people movie coming out next here. It's called WHITE OUT. The website is at http://www.whiteout.us


    Posted by passerby at May 9, 2004 08:52 AM
    Keith, Man! You're so lame. Well let me tell you something, once I was driving going in to a freeway, Guess what I saw? I saw a "mexican" selling oranges on one side of the street and a white-crackhead looking man begging me for money. Think about it. Also, if you don't like Mexicans then move out of the west coast because we're everywhere. We where here first and we're staying. And in case you were not aware that Latinos are the largest growing population and soon we would not be the "minority", Youe MORON! Ignorant people like you make me sick.

    Posted by Gilbert at May 10, 2004 02:13 AM
    I came across this page to see what was being said about this movie. I happened to see it on Friday and I enjoyed it very much. After reading the postings here I have to say that this movie will not be enough to educate people on the issues surrounding immigrantion; such as, paying taxes, jobs, # of children, the Mexican economy, history, education, and the military. Most of what I've seen on here from Keith, Mike, and A White Guy are notions of white supremacy and ignorance. Not one of you have a clear argument. This can only reflect your lack of knowledge and the utilization of assumption as fact. There is no argument, everything stated is a fallacy. If there are no jobs it is not because of undocumented immigrants, it's part and parcial to free trade agreements and capital accumalation (check out Michael Partinti's "Democracy for the Few"). Regarding the number of children immigrants have, I feel that you are assuming that immigrants are popping out kids left and right. It's not true; for instance, the increase in population is due to immigrantion, increase in fertility rates, and longer life span. In relative terms Mexican immigrants are having less kids than Mexicans in Mexico (I would suggest a book called "The Burden of Support" by David Hayes-Bautista, Werner O. Schink and Jorge Chapa.). Also, historically the three of you have forgotten that this land was violently robbed from Native Americans (I would suggest a book called "The American Holocost"). Not to forget that this country was build by immigrants and people of color (I would like to suggest "The Peoples History" by Howard Zinn). And as far as Mexico being a dirty country I would like to know where in Mexico have you been? Prior to the Spanish invastion of Mexico, it was more advanced in the Sciences than any other developed nation at that time. We also had song and flower, which is called poetry and the arts (I would suggest any book from Miguel Leon-Portillo). And now it's not the Spanish it's the United States who is taking up all of the wealth in Mexico. Can any of you explain to me why our southern boreders are open to Mexican made products but militerized to keep Mexicans out. It's as though you all want the cheap labor and products but not the people who make them or their families. Overall, those are a few suggestions of issues the three of you should consider when making such strong accusations about immigrants and Mexicans in general. Oh by the way if you think this country is going out of this way to "please minorities" then I would like to challenge you to explain how. If you think that you're spending so much money on our education to mow lawns, then don't you think that demonstrate the lack of quality education. If this country is "trying to please minorities" then its not really doing a good job then (Check out Daniel Solorzano's "Pipeline Through Education" at the UCLA Graduate School of Education and Information Studies) if only 48% of Chicana/os and Latina/os are graduating from high school then I would say this country is not doing enough to "please us". I would like to challenge all of you to back up all of your "facts" with numbers and research done. This issue is too important to use assumptions as fact, and fallacies as a rule of thumb.

    Posted by Crystal at May 10, 2004 03:10 AM
    For all you Mexicans lovers, how would you like 50-75 Mexicans standing on the corner near your home everyday waiting to be picked up for the day? How would you like your kids to pass these herds of men on they way to school every morning? Mexicans have ruined the neighborhood where I live any many others. There are filthy pigs. They have so many children and live off of the system. Build the Berlin Wall dividing the border to stop these pigs!

    Posted by hatemexicans at May 10, 2004 04:00 PM
    Wow, I didn't realize that there still were so many ignorant people in the world. Obviously "I hate Mexicans" is an idiot, and I don't need to comment on what he said. Except for that he should probably move his trailer out of the Home Depot parking lot!

    Keith, just to inform you, Undocumented people do pay federal taxes because the slave owners who higher them often create illegal SS#s to register them. So not only do they pay federal taxes and Social Security, they do not benefit from having social security to retire, they do not benefit from labor laws to protect them from being overworked. Now, I don't agree that people should immigrate illegally, however they way to stop people is to stop providing work for them. Although undocumented people do utilize some, and I reiterate SOME resources they are not here in the US to do so. Keith I don't know what you do for a living, but I doubt you work anywhere near the population who actually does milk the system. I work as a children's social worker for the county and service abused and neglected children and their families. Abuse, poverty, and Dirtiness knows no color line. Obviously either does stupidity. Why don't you take your inbred, hairy *** back to Germany, you don't deserve to be in OUR country, Nazi.


    Posted by traviesa at May 11, 2004 01:59 AM
    Why the outrage? Would these workers who earn really low wages ever actually have to pay income taxes based on what they earn- I mean wouldn't they probably be exempt if they were legal workers? If they were citizens and working for the same wages, they would probably qualify for free medical care. They would probably be to opoor to own property so they **** sure would not pay property taxes!!! I really don't think that they are taking jobs away from all those proud U.S. citizens clamoring to flip burgers, work the fields, clean our houses, and mow our lawns. If anything, these people allow us to have a greater quality of life by providing us with cheap labor and spending their money in our stores, restaurants, etc.

    Posted by abby at May 11, 2004 07:46 PM
    go back to the caucuas mountains

    Posted by droogone at May 12, 2004 01:20 AM
    wow!!! such hate, bitterness, and anger is felt in my soul as i read these comments. what this whole PLANET needs is another catastrophic event, such as, say a meteor to wipe out all of the human race. we are doing a fine job of destroying this planet anyways; pollution, deforestation, WAR, to name a few. maybe this planet may benefit from a new evolution of non-huamnoids. hell, why not? ok, have a nice day!

    Posted by changoman at May 12, 2004 02:28 AM
    All of this dislike of other people is related solely to the love of money and/or the necessity of it. I know that people would not have a problem with the illegals if they would only not use so many of our resources and increase our taxes so much. Calif is an expensive place to live and only gets more so every year. It is frustrating to see the illegals coming over popping out kids everywhere, qualifying for medi-cal, overcrowding the schools, roads etc. I am a single guy with no kids, so I get screwed most of all when it comes tax time. It is frustrating to pay so much in taxes when I get so little in return and see these people appear to get more and pay less proportionately than me.

    Posted by eric at May 12, 2004 04:00 AM
    It saddens my heart to hear all this negativity and friction. I think we ought to unite in this country and put ethnicity aside. God sees us all the same. As far as hating the Mexicans or the Jews or the Irish....we gotta consider that humans are corrupted in the US and ooh..are they corrupted in Mexico! Everybody knows that Mexican politicians are the most corrupted, savy, cruel people! That's why those poor people come to the U.S., because there is NO true democracy in Mexico. I am a Mexican-American born in the U.S. and I love White people, African people, all kinds of people! And yes, I am all against LULAC and NAACP, those orgs just keep dividing our nation.

    Posted by Carlos at May 12, 2004 10:19 AM
    Hello Mexico is California if u look at past history.And if people hate illegal get off your butt and do it your self. And in the past history your family where illegal do the same thing!

    Posted by rob at May 12, 2004 11:44 AM
    My point is not to put down Mexican or any other people. My point is that these people who supposedly, and I stress SUPPOSEDLY, overburden our state's economy by not paying income taxes and obtaining low cost or no cost governmental benefits probably do not do so in a disproportionate number to those CITIZENS who earn comparable wages. Regardless of their citizenship status, people who earn so little money, whether illegal aliens or documented citizens, will need to rely on the government to provide them aid in obtaining certain basic necessities; they probably will not have enough money to buy property and, therefore, will not pay property taxes thereon. I think that these people are important to sustaining our economy as we know it. They are willing to work hard at jobs that other people don't want and will not perform and, as consumers, they put money back into our economy. We need these people, so how can we deny them benefits in the form of govenrmental assistance; don't they deserve what little aid we give them, especially if it helps them to gain a foothold in the U.S. to become regular tax-paying, property-owning documented citizens? This is not about hate or race, it is a question on the interrelationships of economics, government, and immigration in forming society as we know it.

    Posted by abby at May 12, 2004 01:35 PM
    I am tired of reading this bull**** every time about who will clean your house, who will pick up you trash, who will clean your dishes and who will pick the vegetables in the fields we should stop complaining and do something about it. Yes we latinos should all do a major boycott here in Califas kind of similar to what Martin Luther King did for the african americans, We should do it for one whole month or for as long as it takes to get our point accross. We should not buy, work,and send our kids to school. This was done already for one day but that was not enough we should do it for as long as it takes to prove our point. Adios

    Posted by Carlos at May 12, 2004 03:28 PM
    I am an African american woman and all I have to say is leave the Mexicans alone they are really good people!!!

    Posted by glowwy at May 12, 2004 04:03 PM
    Obviously, we've all got some sort of problem in our own diversity. For the Anti-Mexicans, some of your comments are straight out of the worst areas of our country, say like, Queens or Hells Kitchen, East L.A., redneck trailerpark USA-you know those who are of lesser intellect and never learned to read-BY THEIR CHOICE BECAUSE 'THEY'VE BEEN SO VICTIMIZED BY CAPITALIST AMERICA' etc. In illustrating your point, especially if you don't like these Mexicans, you end up in a position beneath what you are claiming them to be. For the Mexicans, many points made about dishonest Mexican acquisition of opportunity are true- i.e. taking advantage of the society for which other Americans, like myself end up paying for. Mexicans can hide all **** day behind, we do jobs that no one wants" but taking it a step further, if we didn't have Mexicans here to do those "undesirable jobs" we'd still figure it out WITHOUT YOU-don't take so much credit. At least perhaps we could give our kids (especially CA kids)their work ethic back the way it was when my own great grandparents did for their kids -so I hardly think there is a credit that can be given out to them (you) for that. I've seen and been on both sides. I have family that has some or are related to someone of Mexican descent. It finally comes down to this, rather than generalize for or against an entire race, let's be more accurate and realize there are **** lazy, no good Mexicans with no honor, respect, or descency for a country or it's people that has come through it's own hard times and triumphed amidst our trials. For those with your embarassing warcry of when and how you are justified in being here because you were here before anyone AND have a more accurate calendar than we do, then why the hell is Mexico still a third world country and has yet be rescued from it's poverty if you're so resourceful (after thousands of years)? Time to step away from your perfect calendar boys and start developing a higher society and standard of living-kinda of the way we did when we finally got our fill of each others fleas that we'd been pickin at and got serious about TRULY giving something back to our family, by building our country. --the calendar? No one cares...I have a lot of Mexican-American friends who do appreciate their heritage but despise Mexicans and their seemingly complacency of their condition of their lives and what the country as a whole makes of itself. Very honestly that while those "offended" Mexicans whine about how much they are "trying to take care of the family back home", take into consideration the example on how this is to be done: SNEAK into a successful country (don't earn it-Steal it, esay!), run from authorities and give no regard for rules or foreign policy (ensure that the rightful citizens of our beloved country are having to blow millions of dollars on you to heighten security to keep your cheating, dishonorable asses on your side of "a proud Mexican" border, then send American money to to Mexico so the rest of the family can tell the kids that Daddy broke into "a bank of a country" to get us out of here. How proud can a Mexican be when you realize the facts and procedure by which these things are done? Eh, vato?
    Of course I know that like my Mexican friends (who happen to be docs, attorneys, traders, as well as landscapers, teachers, etc), many Mexicans are harder workers than anyone I've seen in my life and are humble enough to accept small compensation for the amount of work they do at first. These are the people that deserve immunity from such chastisments of others that don't understand all Mexican people as a whole. That there are those who bust butt trying to achieve not only for the "family" but for themselves (because that requires a higher level of thinking like how not to "steal into" a country-but work honestly) and there are those that deserve LESS than the meager wage they barely EARN here! But then again, we have rednecks, cowpokes and elitists here also...we all have our failures...

    Posted by americanvoice at May 12, 2004 04:54 PM
    Americanvoice, would you please clarify what it is you are trying to say?

    Posted by abby at May 12, 2004 05:05 PM
    Is sad that there is lots of racism in our country, we need the labor and they need the work , what is the big deal people, just imagine if you family would'nt have anything to eat and there was no work here you would also have to leave your own country , we all have to realized that they are here for a reason , more respect to them

    Posted by Kimbery Johnson at May 12, 2004 05:23 PM
    what happend to the racist *******s

    Posted by oscar at May 12, 2004 09:57 PM
    VIVA MEXICO

    Posted by OSCAR at May 12, 2004 09:59 PM
    The comments from some of the "racist *******s" have been removed. I don't censor free speech: they can say what they want here, as long as they actually have something intelligible to articulate. The equivalent of simply screaming racist slurs will not be left up. People who hate have that right, even if I don't agree with it, but I know that even hateful, racist ideas can be eloquently stated without resorting to vulgarities or simple-minded threats.

    Posted by Jason at May 12, 2004 10:01 PM
    PINCHI BOLA DE RACISTAS

    Posted by RICHARD at May 12, 2004 10:05 PM
    WE SHOULD ALL SUPPORT THE MOVIE

    Posted by OSCAR at May 12, 2004 10:07 PM
    As far im concern this country belongs to the anahuac people...who are the real owners of this country?? genocide was perpetrated by the ignorant white hairy asses mentality just like kathy...they killed and genocide a native culture and guess what ? the genocide still keeps going ...There a lot eurocentricity among our people because they are not longer taught their real history their real identity ..Of course only European History is what we learned in this white focus educational system ! and you american voice said that we should stop our argument about "perfect calendars" it's not only that but just for ur information more than 70%of all world the crops are originally from the Anahuac civilization..in the other hand who are the real immigrants to this land? The European descendents who crossed the ocean and who were only interested to steal and never to deal with the native people..hmm . Also,Yes mexico is a poor country thanks to ignorace and the Eurocentricity in the mexican educational systems this happens here and it happens there...Obviously, if knowledge is power then people who are ignorant dont have the power over their land and it resources....And of course the goverment want to keep the power that is why ...we dont get the quality of education that we as anahuac descendent people deserved it. This is one of the reasons why mexico is poor because Mexico has pelnty of natural resources but guess who "buys them" Of course united states. So to conclude i just want to say that mexico is poor because both (mexico and Usa)goverments have been benefitting by the ignorance of these people.
    just check this http://mexica-movement.org
    http://chicanohistory.org and have a good day!

    Posted by Lilian at May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
    oscar,
    the idea of mexico as such a grand country is a huge myth concocted by prideful folk such as yourself. It is an oligarchy ruled by a precious few white families who never intermarried with the native indians. It is not much better equality-wise than this country, in fact even worse since it offers no opportunities to the majority of the population. While i realize that the US is not perfect, it is a country where a person can succeed despite class or race. Mexico however is not such a place. We should stop calling ourselves "mexicans" and insist on being called "americans" cause we will not be going back to that pitiful land of misery.

    Posted by eric at May 13, 2004 02:01 AM
    i have read many comments about how mexicans cross the border to steel job from the americans or how mexicans do jobs that nobody wants. well let me tell you something we should be more ambicious and educate ourself so we can own our own businesses, be proffesionals like doctors, attorneys, governors, congressmans, senators etc. and become a respecfull community like the italians, jews and others. this country what really respect is how big is you bank acount there is an old English saying "tell me how much do you have and i will tell you how much you are worth". is really sad to see in the streets of california full of mexicans gangs killing each other instead of seeing the Universities full of mexicans graduating each year. we as mexicans or mexicans-americans should be more ambicious and open our own busisnesses and then hire the so called "white man" but in this case we will be their Boss who he is going to respect or he is fire.
    well i can only say one thing

    this beautiful country is our new home and we are here to stay.

    Posted by eddy at May 13, 2004 02:52 AM

  2. #2
    Hey American racists. Lets say this great country
    went broke one day, that there was no more Social Security,no more unemployment benefits and the politicians became more corrupted than they are now and stole money from the poor. Lets
    say you were one of those poor white americans that had no money, no job and a couple of starving kids. Lets say Canada was a rich great country with a lot of jobs and you wanted to migrate but had no money to aquire a travel visa or any kind of legal document. What would you do? would you let your kids starve to death or sneak across the canadian border illegally to find work so you could live a better life. Think about it put yourself in our place. You'd never know, the way things are going with this war against terrorism, it could happen. you might end up in canada doing back breakin labor for hardly any money and have canadians telling you go "back to where you came from you **** illegal". How would you feel.

    Posted by friscomex at May 13, 2004 03:22 AM
    erik you're a typical sellout. Don' forget where you come from. I hope you never set foot in our beautiful land.

    Posted by friscomex at May 13, 2004 03:42 AM
    Mike, Keith, Whiteboy AND ALL THE REST of Mexican Haters!! F&*% YOU!! You all are ignorant and full of ****. I am an illegal immigrant and I have been here since I was 7 years old. My parents came to this country because Mexico is a poor country and full of dishonest politicians who steal from their own country. It's sad to say it but it's true, the politicians are the ones who steal from eachother and Mexico's economy. It's not the people's fault and they have no control over that and that's why Mexico is the way it is. That is why my parents immigrated to the United States. Everyone who is a productive person and wants to succed in life looks for other paths and ways in having a better life and if my parents decided that coming to the USA meant a better life for the family...WHY NOT? Mexico denied a permision or a Visa for my parents to come into this state so they had no choice and crossed the border. Since then, my parents have worked very hard. They've payed taxes ever sicne they started working here. I am now 23 and I bet I have achived more in life than you **** heads ever achived at my age. I studied and right after High School started to work. I bought a fake SS# and I have worked with that number ever since. The IRS department gives us a number like a SS# just to use it for taxes. I bought my own house, a bought a new car and I have a very good job. I have worked really hard to achive and get what I want, I DON'T need any legal papers to be a succesdul person in this is country...AND this is the country that I CHOOSE TO STAY IN AND WILL STAY IN FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!!! I will have Mexican children and Mexican grandchildren HERE!! Wether your white harry butts like it or not!!

    Posted by Jazmin at May 13, 2004 12:35 PM
    hey I am very anxious to see this movie. I think is gone be a very interesting film because that will show all of the people the real importance of us in this society what if we were not here who would you pay to clean your house or do all the hard work...if you see on the streets most of the homeless people are white and not mexicansbecause we work for our jobs we came here to work,and thats how we are helping this country...and to all the people that say we dont pay taxes if you dont know we do pay taxes even if you are not legal ...we pay taxes!!! every year cus if we dont the government is in our house takin our things ....so to alll the **** talkers **** you and arriva mexico cabrones

    Posted by luis at May 13, 2004 01:27 PM
    yeah so changoman...i just realized something, what the hell is this? what the hell are all these posts? jesus christ how ****ing far have we come? where are we? the world is on the brink of destruction and we're talking about this, you know what? let those people say what they want but it's up to us, humans in general, but i mean mexicans in this case, to stop the hatred. hating someone back is only gonna lead to something terrible. look what's happening in iraq...the torture of those iraqi soldiers and then they retaliate with cutting the head off an american electrition or whatever. REVENGE for what happened to their own soldiers who got tortured, and now the US is gonna come back with something worse. Bush says "what they did is worse than what our soldiers did" what the **** is that? great idea, someone hits you so kill them, someone kills your friend so kill their entire family and back and forth. so that's great stuff we should do the same, this guy Keith says, "you guys go home" it's not gonna happen, we know that right? what's the point of insulting, yeah i'm well aware that i posted a very racist remark against keith and i realize that was wrong, i was fueled by hatred. and that hatred is the exact same thing this war is being fueled by, hatred that will lead to the end of the world. changoman, good point, maybe we don't deserve to live on this planet, it's too good for us...sometimes stuff like this makes you think that if the world ends, just let it, maybe the world would be better off...but i mean maybe there's still hope somewhere...hope

    Posted by jeff torres at May 13, 2004 02:51 PM
    ok,this reply is to keith,the slack-Jawed yokel. first of all you know how easy it is for a european to get legal immigration papers to come over to the U.S., legally. Its very easy. second, mexicans are indigenous to north america,unlike the pilgrims who migrated here illegally. so who is the real immigrant?tell me. second,who do you think helped settle california,not the gringos. who settled pretty much all of the west. who cleaned your house today,sure wasnt a gringo. as much as you and every gringo deny's it,everything in this country is based on race. this country was built on racism. its all a bunch of false hope is what they give you.

    Posted by el magnifico at May 13, 2004 02:56 PM
    JUST TO LET MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO FORGOT WHAT AMERICA IS,..
    AMERICA IS THIS CONTINENT IN WHICH WE ALL STAND,,, WHCIH INCLUDES NORTH AMERICA (CANADA, UNITED STATES, MEXICO) CENTRAL AMERICA (EL SALVADOR, GUATEMALA, A FEW OTHERS) AND CENTRAL AMERICA... WITH THAT SAID, WHOS TO SAY WHO REALLY DESERVES THIS LAND, WAS IT THE IMMIGRANTS WHO ESTABLISHED THE UNITED STATES, OR THE AMERICANS WHICH WHERE HERE LONG BEFORE. AND NOW WHO REALLY IS AN AMERICAN...????
    CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THE MOVIE... ANYWAY

    Posted by Jonh at May 13, 2004 03:03 PM
    I agree that america is in a decline,labor is so cheap that kids like me cant get a ****ing job. Im mexican-american(born here but of mexican parents) Im 20 yrs old. there are programs that give scholarships to illegals,just because there illegal. Illegals get treated much better than citizens here in the u.s. why do you think most kids are fat now a days cause they cant get a ****ing job and get off there lazy asses,because of all these ****ing immigrants. I agree that mexicans are native north americans(anahuac). But is it really necesary to take jobs from kids,who just want to make money to go to college. Instead of giving jobs so pedrito in guadalajara can eat and buy a new soccer ball. Thats why mexicans cant succeed,cause the same illegals are taking jobs from educated kids who want to go to college. America has lost its morals due to Jew media brainwashing,illegal sympathy and african american biasedness.

    Posted by el magnifico at May 13, 2004 03:17 PM
    Why can't we all get along? We are human beings no matter what we look like. There is good and bad people in this world. Let's try to love one another. Let's try to be better human beings.

    Posted by love at May 13, 2004 04:50 PM
    I think this movie sounds GREAT! I think every GRINGO should watch it and maybe, just maybe appreciate how hard Mexicans work in this country. Its too bad that White people in America think they are too **** good and better than everyone else. Must I remind them that they too are illegals who took the land from the indians. Yeah, but they fail to recognize and remember that. Americans must realize that Mexicans are human beings and have feelings too. There is no shame in crossing over in order to provide their kids with a better future and want to improve themselves. We all want that for our kids and its not Mexicans fault that they are born in a poor country. I want to tell all the Americans to stop being so GOD**** IGNORANT!

    Posted by Hilda at May 13, 2004 04:56 PM
    Um...I clean my own house. I mow my own lawn. I would never think of invading Canada. They seem to be doing just fine on their own. Someone said something about we are all North Americans. Ok, but I don't see them making a movie called, "A day without Canuks". I am not sure what was said in the deleted posts, but I believe Jason stated they posted vulgarities and such. I see a lot of vulgarities in posts aimed towards myself and others. I don't think I ever said I hated anyone. I did say numerous times that I don't have a problem with legal immigrants. I have lots of friends that descended from Mexico. I even hable picito espanol (my apologies for the spelling). I do apologize for calling Mexico a dirty country. I was just a little frustrated. I keep reading posts about how oppressed Mexico is. Why don't you guys that are educated (I have read a lot of educated posts and some not so educated) ban together and go take back your native home. I would love to see Mexico once again become a strong nation. It will never happen if everyone keeps running over here and staying. You have to fight for what you believe in. We have the power to change things in the US simply by going to the ballot box. Unfortunately, many Americas don't care (my wife included) enough to go vote.
    One last comment...just because I am a German descendant and I have strong views, it does not make me a Nazi. Whoever wrote that just ****s.

    Posted by Keith at May 13, 2004 05:52 PM
    Yes, my friends it is closer to what el mag said. I think with the exception of those life haters, and toothless hick American morons that no other American stands behind (other than the KKK), we in the USA do not hate anyone that truly strives to comform to our way of life that we've established here in the greatest country in the world-freedom and WORK for it. We stand for freedom, yes! But to basically flip off The USA and it's citizens by selfishly coming over and for GOD sake, not even being able to speak the freaking language or try to. Very plainly, we don't bias against keeping your culture, but to create another wall between us all (humans) by not speaking a **** of English is simply intolerable. Whose sick of seeing the lowerider idiot gangster wannabe with his headband pulled down over his greasy head saying Essay! as american voice mentioned? I AM! Or the bazillion Mexican kids crying and running around with no manners or respect in the supermarket in a well to do area in San Diego? I AM! I'll admit, I ,in the flesh will easily condemn those who create frustration like this for all of us. But I think this of Asians as well and the pet peeve of seeing Asians (who don't drive well in the first place) on the **** cell phone while in their car or disrupting a restaurant so rudely in their whiny high pitched goobly-jook language. I think it may not be racist but a mere observance of a mass lack of respect that we "hate" about people, not the people as a whole. Try a little humility around those that legally live here maybe, that's all we ask...As far as "what America is" is a HUGE philosophical issue that is simply just too subjective for any of us to have an answer. I personally believe it needs to be better defined as so many radicals have changed it from it's original intention and we've just gone from there. I am happy that jason removed the idiots, both non-Mexican and Mexican as I am sure that some would believe him to be a bit conservative and imposing on one's free speech right--Fact is, is it boils down to manners and respect cuz he doesn't (or probably care) what color they are, it's offensive to him (and others) because he ,like me, has a sense of respect and protection of others so that ALL of us can make a better world. All of us would agree that we shouldn't send Jennifer Lopez, Antonio Bandaras, etc. back to Mexico...because they've tried to make the best of themselves the way we as Americans do (yes I know their Americans-the point is their ethnicity). Every country has it's way of life and adherence to certain standards and if not. has chaos if "tolerance of everything" is agreed to. We are the "United States" not the "Do-what-ever-you-want/ anything-goes-states". We believe in certain ways of life here. To come into a country and expect a warm welcome while stealing, cutting corners, or trying to impose your old way of life on any other country not just us, is simply rude, disrespectful and insolent! I think our "problem" is not Mexicans themselves, it's the people who ride the coattails of others that have paved the way.
    And I agree that the natives were not Europeans, but to those one quip wonders, just as you say you're illegally here to stay, we fought for the land...and won -- get over it!

    Posted by John Kerry at May 13, 2004 06:02 PM
    I think what we all need to realize is that not all Latino's are illegal immigrants, and not all of us are unskilled workers. There are many educated Latino's, like myself, who are participating in other fields like public health, government, education, law, etc. Latino's are so diverse and we are involved in every aspect of this economy.

    I also wanted to let Keith know that I am the daughter of Mexican immigrants who came to this country illegally. I know first hand that my parents paid taxes as undocumented immigrants and contributed greatly to this economy without receiving the benefits the residents enjoy. My parents were never a "burden" to this country, they became citizens, sent 4 children to college, own a home, and vote regularly. All because they work hard and they were willing to sacrifice everything for their children. I cannot thank them enough for all they have done for me.

    As for your question "Why don't you guys that are educated ban together and go take back your native home?" The answer: The same reason you don't go back to Germany. This is our home. I was born here and I have lived here all of my life. As much as I identify with my Mexican culture, I would be an outsider there. It isn't a language barrier; it's just that growing up in the United States, as a person of Mexican decent is such a unique experience. I want to stay here and help my fellow Latinos out of second-class citizenship and demand our rights as Americans.

    Somebody said that they reason that they oppose illegal immigration is because they wanted to protect American's standard of living. Well, I think immigration IS doing just that. I hope everyone watches the film!

    P.S. John Kerry: What you describe is racist and intolerant. I'll change my mind about you the day I see American tourists trying to be respectful and speak the language of the country that they are visiting. In my experience visiting Europe and Latin America, I'm so embarrassed by the rudeness and cultural insensitivity of Americans that I only speak Spanish and pretend I'm not American.



    Posted by Jaqui at May 13, 2004 07:08 PM
    I haven't seen this movie, but i think its about time other people recognize the truth! That there is no America (in this case California) without Mexicans. Mexican's do pay taxes from working in the U.S. The problem is that they don't get any of it back in there social security. People who do have a social security card complain of little amounts of money being sent to them after they retire, imagine if you didn't get any of it back! America, ever since it's beginning has been composed of immigrants. America started based on immigrants and it can't survive without them. Mexican's who send money back to their country have to pay a tax on the money. Every country needs immigrants because they do the dirty work that others don't want to do. But what exactly is an immigrant? Mexican's have always lived in the "New World" They Only crossed a river and not an Ocean. Just as Native Americans didn't appreciate immigrants coming and taking their land, we shouldn't complain!!!

    Posted by BP at May 13, 2004 07:20 PM
    YOU SAY MEXICANS ARE DIRTY, MEXICANS ARE LAZY, MEXICANS STEAL.....
    WE ARE BECOMING THE MAJORITY AND THINGS WILL CHANGE, MAYBE NOT IN YOUR LIFETIME BUT THE TIME WILL COME. KEEP ON HATING... KEEP IT UP....
    THINGS WILL EVENTUALLY CHANGE.

    Posted by CHANGE at May 13, 2004 07:45 PM
    PEACE BE WITH YOU ALL...

    yes even you delusional racist inbreeders

    Posted by THE 2ND COMING at May 13, 2004 09:24 PM
    To John Kerry
    i would like to respond to this qoute.
    "All of us would agree that we shouldn't send Jennifer Lopez, Antonio Bandaras, etc. back to Mexico...because they've tried to make the best of themselves the way we as Americans do (yes I know their Americans-the point is their ethnicity)."
    i do not apreciate you lumping hipanic looking individuals into one category, being Mexican.I appreciate you trying to correct your error by stating "yes I know their Americans-the point is their ethnicity)." which, just made your statement worse. both of these talented individuals are not of Mexican decent. Jennifer Lopez hails from Puerto Rico, Antonio Banderas is from Spain. next time i suggest you eduacate yourself before pasting fallicies.
    sincerely, an observer.


    Posted by magdalena cruz de guadalupe jimenez at May 13, 2004 09:52 PM
    I'm a illegal imigrant from mexico, I have been in this country for 10 years,and they take away 250 dollars from my paycheck every week, tha's money I'm not going to see never in my dirty mexican hands because I don't have a social, so please don't say that we do not pay taxes.

    Posted by juan at May 13, 2004 09:54 PM
    First of all I just want to say how happy I am that finally there will be a movie that shows how important Mexicans are to this country. We are probably the least appreciated people in this country and we do so much. I am the son of two Mexicans that are legal citizens of this great nation. They came here illegally but were honest working people. It makes me sick to read how people label Mexicans as being dishonest, dirty people don't take care of their kids. Well let me tell you something. We let kids run around as they please because that's how it is in Mexico. They all run free and play, as little kids should do.but, not you white folks, white kids are the saddest kids I think in this country. You restrict them on everything. We Mexicans do things way different and why cant you understand that. Our cultures are so different from Americans. As soon as we start living here you want us to take in your culture just so you guys can be happy. No ****ing way, that's what makes us Mexican. Also saying that it's bad for Mexicans to come to this country and work back braking jobs that you white folks would not do. Here you write the Mexicans steal your jobs. HAHAHAHA those are jobs you numb nuts would not take! Stealing jobs, yea right. Yes they do it for cash because they cant get freaken SSN, but they have to survive somehow, and somehow support that families they have in Mexico. We are here to stay and for those who don't like it, A CHINGAR SU MADRE PUTOS!

    Posted by Paul at May 13, 2004 10:50 PM
    Do you know why the United States is a great country? it's not by the size of the weaponry in its arsenal, nor the amount of money in the Federal Reserve, not even in the oil fields of Texas and Alaska. This country is great because of the human capital, the value for each person, no matter what their background or ancestry is. We all are useful in something and the riches of what this country gets everyday it's because of the human capital that is comming this country for free, while immigrants, who are looking for oportunities to progress, are impoverishing their countries by leaving it. What would happen ( And I hope it will never happen!) if all American citizens start migrating to other countries because we are not longer the "light of the world" and we become exploited and humiliated in an strange land just because we are "American" just like in the old colonial times where in England, being an "American" was so despictive as now by saying "Mexican"?. My fellow Americans and Mexicans, We are bounded by a common origin, that is that our ancestors were both the founders of this great continent called "America" that begins from the coldest northern part of Canada and ends to the Patagonia in the tip of South America. Don't you think that there are more important thinks to think about than fighting for stupidities. For those who believe they hate Mexicans, one Message. Please get out of your trailer homes take a trip to Mexico and see it and enjoy it. You'll fall in love with it and you'll think different when you get back, because there is nothing more stupid that being an ignorant and judging based on that ignorance. Ask that to Senator Jesse Helms when he visited Mexico city. And please open your eyes to the new century. Mexicans immigrants are no longer the poor, ignorant and dirty person as shown in the movies, this new generation of immigrants are from a higher social and educational level than their predecesors, who don't come to pick tomatoes in the field, but open businesses, compete in the stock market, and involve in the political arena. We are the new generation that will change that image of the "Mexican" immigrant. As an American citizen of Hispanic ancestry, I'm ashamed of those who are destroying each other while our brothers and sisters of any background are fighting shoulder to shoulder overseas to keep this country free and powerful from the terrorism. Let's grow up mentally and focus in more important things in life. For those who still want to live in the dark by attacking immigrants, then begin by deporting that statue of liberty back to France, since not even that is "Made in America."

    Posted by Bob at May 14, 2004 01:59 AM
    This Forum is filled with very racist comments.

    And one thing to get cleared up if you did not many undocumented immigrants do pay taxes. Have you ever thought about them using somebody else's social security #. **** you must not know the real facts about undocumented immigration. Do you know that they work for sub standard living wages and that most do not go to college because people like you lack the knowledge that is required to understand the struggle this people are going through.

    And please do not say that Americans do not like undocumented immigrants equally.

    Wake up if you are a certain color, you are going to be treated differently.

    I am a U.S. born Mexican attending UC Berkeley and I still get the same **** as an UNdocumented Mexican.

    America is plain racist and it has always been. Accepted.

    Why do you see so many Asians getting accepted into College? Think!!

    Really this time use your brain!!

    Well, racism duhhh!!!

    Asians are no better than Mexicans
    They just happen to adhere to the U.S. system not American because the U.S really just stole that name from the continent.

    A true American from the continent does not talk **** like you do.


    Learn. Go to school and get an education.


    Many educated Mexicans in the University are degraded. And you know why because racist do not like the fact that we are strong people who do not like kissing ***.


    Yes. Thats the reason why you do not see that many Mexicans and other Latinos in the Nation in colleges and Universities.

    The governement always gives us their scraps so please shut up if you do not know the facts.

    Medical and school facilities are used by immigrants. Yes. Well look at your demographics California is 40% latino according to the 2000 Census.
    You know how many more Latinos just sneaked in into the country? Right. So shut up!!!!1Now California I bet is probably almost 60% Latinos.
    That is including everybody who was not included in the Census.

    Another thing if you do not like Latinos get out because Whites are a minority here. I hope you are getting your ship ready because in 2050 or so the U.S. s probably going to be as the population growth says" 50% of the U.S. will be probably Latino"
    Pack your bags and get on the Mayflower.


    That is back to Europe or else where.
    But not the U.S.


    And get all those ****ing corporation out of Mexican and other Latin American countries if you do not want us to come here to our land.

    bECAUSE REMEMBER YOU ARE THE IMMIGRANT WE WERE ALREADY HERE.

    yOU STOLE OUR LAND NOT US.

    READ AND LEARN YOUR HISTORY THEN TALK!!!!!1


    REMEMBER CALI, COLORADO, NEW MEXICO, TEXAS AND PARTS OF UTAH WERE OWNED BY MEXICO AND THE U.S CAME AND STOLE IT. rIGHT YOU REMEMBER NOW.


    B.S. FOO.


    HAVE SOME DIGNITY THAT IS IF YOU HAVE ANY.

    YOU CANNOT LIFE WITHOUT US.

    THUS, SHUT UP.

    OR YOU WILL BE TREATED ACCORDINGLY.

    DON'T WORRY CAPITALISM WILL COME TO AN END!!!!
    I BET THAT THERE WILL COME THE TIME WHEN YOU WILL BE BEGGING TO A MEXICAN TO STAY BECAUSE YOU CANNOT SURVIVE ALONE.

    THUS, CALIFORNIA MIGHT BE ONE OF THE FEW STATES STANDING WHEN THE U.S. ECONOMY COLLAPSES.

    WHY BECAUSE WE HAVE LATINOS1111

    AND LATINOS ARE SOME OF THE MOST HARD WORKING PEOPLE YOU WILL EVER MEET.

    THAT IS IF YOU MEET THEM BECAUSE YOU DO SEEM SACRED OF US.

    CAUTION:
    EDUCATED STUDENT OF COLOR

    EDUCATED LATINO


    LUIS E. SANCHEZ
    UC BERKELEY
    2007

    "EN LA UNION ESTA LA FUERZA"

    "A LIFE IS NOT IMPORTANT EXCEPT IN THE IMPACT IT HAS ON OTHER LIVES"- JACKIE ROBINSON

    SO MAKE YOURS USEFUL

    PEACE AND LOVE TO ALL

    Posted by Luis E. Sanchez at May 14, 2004 03:07 AM
    This is a quiz question for the Nazi-Lover Keith. Do you know which country is the most visited by German tourists? ES IST MEXIKO, Danke Schn!

    Posted by Bob at May 14, 2004 03:20 AM
    Keith, If you're so ignorant that you don't even know the answer to my quiz question, Let me have the joy to translate it from your family's mother language to you. "IT IS MEXICO!" Moron!!

    Posted by at May 14, 2004 03:48 AM
    STILL LOVE YOU!!!YEAH YOU UNEDUCATED HOMIE!!!!

    DON'T THIS COUNTRY BRAIN WASH YOU ANY MORE!!!1
    AND DO NOT TAKE THOSE WORDS PERSONALLY BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST WORDS!!!!

    REMEMBER ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!!!

    I LOVE YOU SO DON'T SCREW IT UP!!!!
    WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND WE ARE HERE TOGETHER IN THIS COUNTRY TO WORK THINGS OUT!!!!!


    SO LETS GET TO WORK.

    PEACE and love to you all,

    Luis

    Posted by at May 14, 2004 03:50 AM

  3. #3
    I go back and forth from angry to appreciative reading all these letters. It is obvious that many who condemn Mexicans and illegals are not educated about state economics, and it is obvious that the educated persons in this group seem to support the rights of everyone to work and make a living, no matter who they are. I agree that no white people seem to be bashing down the door to clean toilets and take care of housecleaning, gardening or especially picking fruit. As to that comment about Mexico being a dirty country, that is just racism speaking. I have been to Europe, and it was so clean that when I came back and saw trash all over the highway out of the Philadelphia airport, I was ashamed of America. And you can be sure it wasn't Mexicans who littered there. That is another issue. We keep saying 'Mexican illegals'. Hate to tell you this folks, but there are Canadian illegals, European illegals, African illegals etc., but since they blend in to white America we don't target them, let alone mention them. We take Salvadoreans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Chileans etc and label them all under the banner of 'Mexicans'. A thin veil for racism if you ask me. The families of virtually all of us living here were immigrants at some point, mostly illegal in the early history of this country. We murdered and stole from the Native American, and now we have the audacity to try and bar others from coming into the country to seek a better life. Most of the southwest was Mexico, and was stolen by the US as part of the land-grabbing Manifest Destiny policies. Let's all try to live peacefully and please get an education before you condemn other groups in a wholesale way.

    Posted by John at May 14, 2004 06:10 AM
    If I am going to spend a few days in a foriegn country, then I will try to learn a few words and phrases to get me by. If I were going to move to that country, then I would take the time and learn the language. I would not expect that Nation to bend over backwords for me. I would not expect to have every piece of literature and signage printed and posted with an English translation.

    So once you guys take over and kick all the white folks out, what are you going to do when turn the US into another Mexico? Are you then going to jump the border into Canada?

    Oh. I want to share something with you guys. A few weeks ago in my fine city there was a scare that the INS were going to conduct some raids. For three days there was not an illegal Mexican in sight. Guess what? We all survived. The economy didn't crash. My house got cleaned. My yard got mowed. My kids learned in school. My wife and I went to work. We contributed to society.

    So go cry in your menudo.

    Posted by Keith at May 14, 2004 09:58 AM
    I am proud of being a Mexican, I am educated, I am a US citizen. So I will give you some advice. Do not pay attention to ignorance. There is good and bad people every where, it has nothing to do with race, color, culture, etc.
    We have no right to judge other people just because we had the opportunity to go to school, or we were born in this country. A nationality does not make us better than anybody else. We are Equal.
    So remember, ignorance is not a sin. And I am talking about "educated" people, who think the're better just because of their legal presence in this country, or because they had the opportunity of going to school.
    Do a favor to yourself and stop being afraid of other people.

    Posted by at May 14, 2004 10:30 AM
    I think there is a Catch-22 here. I sympathize with the fact that many illegals are so motivated to work that they provide a fake SSN knowing that they will never reap the benefits of the taxes taken from their earnings. But on the other hand...If the U.S. did not have a system in place whereby workers' earnings were automatically taxed to fund the system, the benfits enjoyed by all who enter this great country, illegals and citizens, would not exist. (Very few people would have the foresight to pay taxes if not required to do so, this includes US citizens.) Regardless of whether one is eligible to collect social security, taxes taken from a worker's earnings go back to the government and allow more money to be allocated towards improving roads, schools, hospitals, water, etc. These are benefits everybody here enjoys and these are the benefits people come here to enjoy. It ****s that illegals can't get real SS #s and that they have to pay SS to work, but there has to be some kind of bar in place. A government of any country cannot allow every person to come and work there outside the system, otherwise the country would collapse.

    Also, I disagree with the statement that it is harder for Latinos to enter this country and work legally than it is for Europeans and that somehow it is the fault of the US government and its citizens. Is that really the case? It just seems like there are more Latinos wanting to come to this country than there are Europeans. When Europeans do come, a lot of them come on work visas with employment already lined-up, or for school. It is not the fault of the U.S. if European people have more resources than Latinos to come to this country because the U.S. does not provide them with those resources. In any event, I have many friends who came here from Europe for work or school and then had to go back to their countries when their visas expired.

    And what about terrorism? If we lower the bar on who can be here and how long and without proper documentation, we either have to allow some people in (Latinos) and discriminate against others based on their national origin (probably people of Middle Eastern origins), or we can just compromise the security of the entire U.S. and let everyone in with no questions asked and not enforce immigration laws creating an opportunity for more 9-11 disasters. MY POINT IS THAT REQURING DOCUMENTATION ALLOWS THE GOVERNMENT TO KNOW WHO IS IN THE COUNTRY AND WHO MAY POSE A THREAT TO LIFE AS WE ALL WANT IT TO BE.

    Posted by abby at May 14, 2004 01:40 PM
    I think that too many of the comments I have read stem from ignorance. The guy who said he wouldn't mind paying more for services done by a citizen rather than an illegal immigrant is full of it. Does he eat at fast food restaurants? Does he buy fruit at the supermarket? My point is that even if one is not aware of how much illegal immigrants (from everywhere, not just Mexico) are exploited doesn't mean that they aren't. Another thing, even if he is willing to pay more for services performed by a legal resident or citizen, not many other people are. That's why there are so many people living in poverty. Not all of the people in the ghetto are illegal. Not all of the people who work for very low wages are Mexican.
    And to the guy who said that Mexicans are trying to run all of "the white people out": I hope you were joking. If not I feel sorry that you are not more aware of American history. California used to be part of Mexico. That is one of the main reasons there are so many Mexicans here today. It's not some big conspiracy.

    Posted by nancy at May 14, 2004 01:48 PM
    I feel so disgusted with half of what I read in this forum
    At the same time I wonder why I am even responding
    I guess it bothers me to see that in this day and age we are all so divided
    I can not believe that someone living in a country that claims to be the
    land of freedom
    a land that promises gold with hard work and effort
    a united country
    one of opportunities
    a land of equality
    We advertise to the world "hey look at us our cou ntry is so much better then yours"
    "we have it all here, anything you may want to make life easier"
    Making it all sound like a fantasy land
    All I ask is do we not all want to go to Heaven where God has made everything so beautiful and stress free?
    Imagine a child 1- 2 year old digging from a pile of trash to eat
    because there are no jobs or opportunities
    for their parents? or living in a society that the government rules their lives?
    Mexicans are not the only ones that are illegal it irritates me that we irritate anyone from another nationality "mexican" not that there is anything wrong but we have our own identities
    why cant we see passed our shades, colors, shapes and see what is inside
    what does it matter if John has a green card and Kevin doesnt
    if no harm is being caused
    All that is happening is that they are taking jobs that we choose not too because they are such low pay
    If it were your child you would want to move anywhere to take that pain and suffering
    We are given so much and dont take advantage of it
    I suggest you visit
    a outside the country see how these people actually live
    and what they go through before saying we dont want you hear
    Grow up people release your anger on improving the community with something positive
    not something that is reality is not affecting you
    Keep in mind that oru existance makes a difference in marketing and economy of this country
    look at it in all angles not just the negative ones
    I leave you with this
    after all in reality it's not even our land
    we live here because we were allowed to live here
    it's not really your life
    God let you borrow it
    Peace


    Posted by Janet at May 14, 2004 02:00 PM
    Hello Angelica! You are doing a disservice to all Mexicans by making comments like that.

    Posted by abby at May 14, 2004 02:17 PM
    re: Mike's post from 5 May: To say "I'd happily pay more for services which are generally performed by illegals if it kept more of them out of the state" is vacuous. It descends to something below vacuous when you tie it to an issue of "quality of life". Think: when you sum the total of a little more for ALL of the tervices and goods rendered to by undocumented persons, and which you take for granted, the cost would stagger you, and your quality of life would decline. You would no longer be able to afford the CDs, petrol, McDonalds, and GAP clothing you can buy now. In other words, purshasing power (yours) would dwindle, and you would find yourself in the situation in whihc immigrating persons find themselves: Unable to afford to live in your home, and compelled to travel elsewhere to earn money. Some of this money you would spend on yourself, much of it you would return to your family. Engage your brain and your compassion before you engage your mouth or pen. Empty drivel and rhetoric are not acceptable solutions.

    Posted by scott at May 14, 2004 02:41 PM
    42 years before the Pilgrims arrived, Pedro Menendez de Aviles established the first permanent settlement in St. Augustine, FL. In 1598, Santa Fe, New Mexico was settled (which, by the way, contains the first house in the US). In 1848, the United States basically forced Mexico to sell us California, Texas, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Wyoming for $15 million dollars. Then, five years later, we readjusted the boundries. So, now since we have taken away their land, we expect them to do everything we do: speak our language, eat our food, adopt our culture, and live like us? Yeah, that's really fair. When you've got a minute, look up the original definition of the word fair (in a dictionary you can actually pick touch) and you will find that it does not mean that everyone gets the same; but rather that everyone gets what they need. The same arguement made by many of you was the same arguement Benjamin Franklin used to make; saying that the Germans were going to immigrate to this country and eventually take it over. It's the fear of the native losing his home. You know what I say? Who cares? I'm not a racist prejudice ****. I'll help the world any way I can and if that means that I'll have to share my country with others (oh Heaven forbid) that's all right with me. There's plenty of room in the US. Maybe there's not a lot of room in your neighborhood, but it's a free country, you can move. I'm doing it soon. I've done it before. It's not so bad. Home is where you lay your head. Hey, remember this: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...?" That's under the Statue of Liberty, welcoming all the IMMIGRANTS as they arrived at Ellis Island. Come on now, the Statue of Liberty! That's one of the biggest symbols of pride in this country. If you don't agree with that, you need to find some other place to live.

    Posted by Matt at May 14, 2004 03:46 PM
    I started this entry, indeed this entire blog, to address issues of human rights. I had hoped to stimulate rational, intelligent discussion of the perceived problems, issues, solutions, causes, effects, etc. of illegal immigration. Instead, most have reponded with banal threats, insults, obscenities, racist comments, and so on. Truly, it saddens me.

    Now, I do not claim to know the answers. I don't even really know how I feel on the issues. I agree the America was stolen from various peoples throughout its history. But that's true of any land almost to the dawn of time. One theory, for instance, even has Neaderthals fighting it out for parts of Europe tens of thousands of years ago, trying to keep out new immigrants. Even in America, Native Americans had territory disputes and killed each other. Europeans just happened to have, for better or worse, more effective weapons and diseases (see Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel," e.g.).

    Although I do not advocate forgetting the past, what we are curently dealing with is the present and the future. If I illegally went to another country, I don't think I would expect to be able to work for any type of wage, and I certainly would not expect free medical care. Nor would I expect a foreign country to print packages, ATM messages, etc. in English just because a bunch of us live there; I would try and become fluent in the language as quickly as possible and communicate in their native tongue. To say that we should allow anyone to work here because the land used to belong to them is not a valid argument, at least to me. I am sure at some point in the archaeological record, peoples from central and south America came north to stake a claim to many lands traditionally held by Native American tribes such as the Anasazi, Pueblo, etc. And who knows whether *those* inhabitants did not displace yet another older group, perhaps by force...

    Personally, I think many from Mexico and other countries do not try hard enough to effect change in their own countries. Instead of banding together to demand change in Mexico, for instance, which would admittedly be difficult, many just run away where they can work and live under the radar without much struggle. Perhaps I think they take the easy way out, and it's true that many eventually obtain an education and become contributing, effective members of society.

    Causing a shift in Mexico, or anywhere else, would require the People to demand it. Not only would you have to protest against the Mexican government, but you would probably need to protest the IMF and the World Bank also. The struggle would be long and arduous, without question. I understand why coming here is the easier answer.

    I also believe there is some merit in the fear that illigal workers have an adverse impact on local, state, and federal governments. The middle class is dying: all that will be left are the elites and the working poor. People are beginning to demand an egalitarian utopia, where anyone can work, have medical care, food, shelter, education, etc. That's a good plan, and it can work, but it would require the decentralization of virtually all wealth and it would by necessity make everyone equal (and poor, entirely dependent on the government for support). It would look quite a bit like Cuba.

    I do believe that our economy would suffer without illegal workers. The catch-22 is horrible. Please, let's try and address topics in a more effective manner. I really want ideas exchanged here, not hate. Otherwise, I may disable comments, and I don't want to do that. Thanks!

    Posted by Jason at May 14, 2004 04:17 PM
    I don't know if anybody watches California Connected, but on last night's episode there was a debate on this exact subject. Not so oddly, it echoed the same sentiments being expressed on this blog, and the participants came from all strata: teachers, government, lawyers, economists, and every day people, even the occasional racist.

    Posted by abby at May 14, 2004 04:55 PM
    Hey Quetzalcoatl, are such comments really going to further the Mexican cause in the U.S.? When I hear them, it makes me think bad thoughts about the people making them. Second of all, didn't the U.S. win the land from Mexico in a war, and didn't Mexico win it from the Spanish in a war, and didn't the Spanish pilfer it from the indigenous peoples? And didn't the indigenous peoples fight over the lands and didn't the indigenous people come from somewhere else, oh I don't know- maybe they migrated from Mesopotomia through the Bering Strait? My point is that we can't say that land really belongs to any one group and that they were there first with any certainty. Afterall, conquest and acquisition seem to be the dominant force in the history of mankind. The winners, or those who are perceived as the winners, get to write history. Right now the U.S. has won the land and is in control of it, but who knows, maybe in another thousand years the Chinese will control it and they will have kicked the Mexicans and Americans out. NONE OF US OWN THE EARTH BUT WE ALL OCCUPY IT. WE NEED RULES OUR SOCIETY COLLAPSES.

    Quetzalcoatl- why don't you go read some Plato, Kant, or Foucault!

    Posted by abby at May 14, 2004 06:49 PM

  4. #4
    I also thought that the billboard was offensive because California is made of many immigrants that are Latinos and they do the job other people do not want to do. They work in the field and their are a lot of Americans that would not want to go work in the field. I hope this movie would show the government that California does need
    the MEXICANS and other LATINOS. There are many people that treat them bad just because they come to the United States. They do not come here because they want to. They come to this Country the United States because in Mexico they get paid very little for these poor people give everything their family needs. I hope this movie makes the people realize that the Mexicans and the Latinos that come from other Country that they are needed and if something happens this whole Country will be in a lot of trouble because other people that are not Latinos or Mexicans will work in the fields. They do work very hard to be able to survive, but their are people that do not understand they are needed in California and other states in the United States. The people that are here in the country illegally are not here for free and they pay taxes when they pay rent for an apartment or in other things they buy so in my perspective reason these people should not be treated bad with a harsh respect against these poor people that do work very hard to give their family what they think.

    Posted by vanessa at May 14, 2004 07:11 PM
    I have read the comments posted. Some have angered me and some have made me laugh. Mexicans or any other groups of people regardless of legal status are just cogs in this wheel. We all suffer from those who bring down our wages, who take away our jobs, who have it all and we have nothing, who don't have to pay for their education ( legacy students) who sit in houses that we will never have, the POWER ELITE. The transnational corporations are the real problem, hello did everyone forget about ENRON, WORLDCOM, & other American Corporations that robbed employees and cheated the government millions of dollars. Come on people look past color & race and open your eyes. The Wealthy are the one's cheating everyone. Not Mexicans.

    Posted by Angie at May 14, 2004 07:14 PM
    All the racist people here make me sick, get off your ******* computer and go work on the fields to earn your living! after that come back and keep complaining how mexicans are taking your so precious jobs away

    Posted by at May 14, 2004 07:33 PM
    All I see in these comments is ignorance from both sides. The ones who say that this country would be nothing without Mexicans, I highly doubt it. But I do believe that most illegal immigrants pay their way one way or another. Many of them do get taxes taken out of their already pathetic paychecks. Whether they pay federal or local tax,it doesnt matter which one they pay it still goes to services for everyone. And just a bit of information, whites dont lagg far behind in the use of welfare. Yet you see more white people begging on the streets than you see any minority. At least the minority are out there trying to better their lives. For those of you who cant stand illegal immigrants, Sorry, Get used to it!! Its a never ending circle that gets worse because of absent minded people like some of you. You need to learn to live together and work with each other to make this country, OUR COUNTRY A BETTER PLACE!!!

    Posted by Mary at May 14, 2004 07:52 PM
    Quetzalcoatl, your way of thinking makes you just like them. You are as ignorant as they are by expressing such anger. That type of thinking will only make things worse. Abby is right, the land belongs to the people who conquered it...thats how history evolves. For all of you who cant seem to get over the fact that this is not Mexico anymore, you need a reality check. Work with what we have now, not with what happened a long time ago. Be proud of your heritage but also realize that you are evolving into a new society. People need to open their eyes and minds. It is sad to say that Mexicans are the least educated minority in the country. And instead of making unsupported comments, like a lot of you are making, try to educate yourself and others to make those statistics a thing of the past.

    Posted by Mary at May 14, 2004 08:53 PM
    HATE! HATE! HATE! is all I feel here. Before I am Mexican, I am African, European, Asian, Indian. Its time to move on fellow humans, after all half the people you hate don't know it & the other half don't care. Life is way too short to burden yourself. PEACE BE WITH YOU ALL

    Posted by the 2nd coming at May 14, 2004 09:52 PM
    I think americans don't really realize that one they they were immigrants to and this was our land they just took it away from us so strat to think better who is the immigrant who is th one that should be out of california. Also they wouldn't pay more for the products came on they are complaining about the price in the gas. Also they are kind of lazy white people would'n work in the plantations let's be real they love us the mexicas salvadorean uruguaian and any latino or why do they always eat at taco bell or acapulco? why they sing so happy la bamba? why do they celebrate 5 de mayo? Just think every time you eat that an immigrant might be the one who pick that lettuce.

    Posted by A proud mexican at May 14, 2004 11:02 PM
    Anybody that lives in so cal knows that illegals don't just take the " field" jobs that this board talks about so much. they have also taken many construction jobs, factory jobs that used to belong to americans. I can't remember when the last time was that i saw an actual american doing apartment repair (painting, installing floors, etc), yard work, etc. they're always illegalss that are hired. They have successfully destroyed what was profitable for american born people. I don't believe that the people who hire the illegals always pass the savings down to the consumer either. For example, my friend next door owns an apartment building and regularly hires illegals to do the property improvements. He does NOT pass on the savings to his tenants. So how do we as TAXPAYING americans benefit from their being here, not to mention all of the freebies that they tend to get on account of being poor and breeding so many unruly chillun. I believe that the "owners" pocket the savings to make themselves richer than if they had hired american born people to do the work. I personally would love to see proper enforcement of our borders to keep out all of the breeding freeloaders.

    Posted by eric at May 15, 2004 12:46 AM
    Come on people! Do your homework . . . No doubt this is a heated issue, but the real risks don't directly involve, or require, racism. Just look at the data, and see the limited ways it can be interpreted. We have a major fiscal crisis . . . this is bottom line stuff that preempts every other consideration. If we continue to undermine primary economic securities, then all the other fair-minded notions are useless.

    Please read this article carefully. I'd be interested in some exchanges based on its claims.

    http://adnetsolfp2.adnetsol.com/ssl_.../gsp/gsp18.htm

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 02:10 AM
    Eric, first of all your friend next door who owns an apartment building is the cheating ******* who takes the money from his tenants and pays illegal immigrants for cheap labor. Why dont you have a talk with him, since he's your friend? Second of all WE as TAXPAYERS benefit by paying less for our food. And third of all nobody is keeping the white man from getting these jobs. I've seen plenty of Mexican Americans doing these jobs, because you seem to forget that just because you see someone who looks hispanic doesnt mean they are illegal.

    Posted by Mary at May 15, 2004 02:50 AM
    Jeff Torres, I see you got my point. I still see hope as an option but its in a very dim light right now.
    What most have failed to realize is that whenever this country or a state is in a dire deficit, it's time to blame the immigrants. Look at this country's history with the Irish and Chinese and see how they were also used as scapegoats. Who knows maybe when US Mexicans have super-populated, not to mention taken over California, there will be another group of immigrants to blame our problems on. What many have also failed to see is that there are not only Mexican immigrants here. Yes, i agree Mexicans do make up the majority of immigrants but then there are our brothers from ****her south that come here too. And, they have to cross through Mexico as well.
    So whats my point? Im a first generation immigrant that was lucky enough to come here during the early 70's when it was easier to get a "greencard". My parents came to this country for the better of my and my brother's future. I have a University degree now and can say for the most part it's good to be a Chicano in the United States.
    All this hateful replies by some stem from ignorance. I bet if all Americans had the opportunity to have at least a college degree with a diversified campus, all this hate bull**** would diminish eventually. Education is the key to our success.
    But if all else fails, this planet must go through an Evolutionary Makeover.
    Thank you and have a wonderful day!

    Posted by changoman at May 15, 2004 03:11 AM
    Unfortunately, HATE for humanity is extremely prevalent, (as was concluded after reading some of your comments)! As for those of you with the blatant "anti-Mexican & anti-immigrant" view, I suggest you get educated. We need to face the following fact: Minority groups (or groups not in power)in the United States, such as African-Americans, Latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, Jews, Women, people with disabilities,homosexuals, and those of low SES, face hate and discrimination every day. As for White people, men, all those able bodied, AND also those who face any "ism" it is important to understand the concepts of "PRIVILEGE , MARGINALIZATION, DISCRIMINATION, OPPRESSION, SCAPEGOATING,PREJUDICE, RACISM,ANTISEMITISM, CLASSISM, ABLEISM, & SEXISM." These are highly studied concepts you may consider studying prior to stating your comments. We live in a country where slavery dominated for hundreds of years and where the "isms" continue to be a detrimental part of all of our daily lifes (wether you use denial is another). One thing that distinguishes us from animals is our ability to think critically and emote right? Well it would be wonderful to put our brain to use prior to our impulses.WE MAY WANT TO LISTEN TO THE WORDS OF PAIN FROM PEOPLE BEFORE YOU JUDGE! When someone calls you a racist, they want to tell you "I am angry and hurt because I want my feelings and my experiences to be validated, I am invisible in this country, and I want you to understand that you hold White Privilege."

    Posted by viewer of film at May 15, 2004 05:05 AM
    these movie goes out to all the pilgrims that immigrated from england. so who is the real immigrant.california is mexican land that is why its so great, we will never leave, so love it or start swimming. to all you chicano's educate yourselves , because the truth is that if we want change we need to start with ourselves. change comes from the bottom, don't expect anything from this greedy political system.
    all they want us for is to be pleasants, but are history is greater than that. are ancestors were better than all that. we need to demand more from are selves and stop being grateful to this racist white people. we need to stop thinking about labor working, and start looking at a higher education.

    Posted by emiliano zapata at May 15, 2004 06:54 AM
    One of my major problems is validated by many of these messages. While it is unfortunately true that many typical "white" people are ignorant of their own history and take much of what they have for granted, that stereotype certainly doesn't fit for everyone. No group wants to be stereotyped, labeled, or anything similar, nor should they be. Not all "blacks" are lazy and violent, not all Jews are greedy and cheap, not all Southerners are poor trailer trash, and certainly not all illegal immigrants from south of the border are ignorant, uneducated workers who leech off the system and breed twleve children.

    Yet, on my Forum here, I see so much hate from both sides. I see "whites" saying that all imiigrants are bad and should get out, but I also see immigrants saying, essentially, that it is "our turn now, since you stole our land, soon we will be the majority and then watch out!" Both views are sadly naive and do not further the cause of equality and justice.

    I just simply don't like the fear and resentment I see from many of the non-immigrants here, and I don't like the sense of entitlement and revenge I perceive coming from many of the immigrants.

    Posted by Jason at May 15, 2004 10:21 AM
    Someone wanted comments on the following article:

    http://adnetsolfp2.adnetsol.com/ssl_.../gsp/gsp18.htm

    Well, go here and read mine (you may need to "glue" the URL together):

    http://www.jasonsimms.com/archives/2...migration.html

    Posted by Jason at May 15, 2004 10:51 AM
    Hey guys... here's a picture of the controversial billboard... my friend took the picture...


    (if that doesn't work. copy and paste it... http://www.photobucket.com/al***s/10...a/9d672f22.jpg)

    Posted by JON at May 15, 2004 12:53 PM
    Without the mexicans this country won't do anything we are the ones that work all the day just to earn a little money.we can do everything.

    Posted by juan at May 15, 2004 01:24 PM
    mary,
    i know the difference between a mexican american and a mojado (i am mexican american). Why couldn't the fruit and vegetables be picked by LEGAL immigrants? Why is every taxpayers' responsibility to pay to educate the mojados' children? If they come here to work, fine, just leave the wife and kids back home in mexico. We pay more than enough taxes in cali and don't need to support them with free education, healthcare and subsidized housing. the aggressive mexican mafia legislators consistently propose ways to provide them with even more freebies at the expense of the calif taxpayer. It's not just mexicans either. In west hollywood, there is a sizable amount of russian immigrants who are always the first to be rewarded with free/subsidized housing ahead of any citizens who have lived and paid taxes here all of their lives. btw, i'd gladly pay more for my vegetables and fruit in exchange for lower taxes if all of the illegals would leave the state.

    Posted by eric at May 15, 2004 01:47 PM
    I do not know if I made my point clear with my previous message. I said "scapegoating," it is what people are doing to the illegal immigrants. We judge that illegal immigrants are to blame for our economy, which is so false. Study economics, social psychology, sociology & history! Scapegoating is exactly what happened to the Jews in Germany and apparently we do not learn from our history!

    Posted by viewer of film at May 15, 2004 04:07 PM
    How utterly ridiculous to compare the U.S.'s treatment of Mexicans to Germany's abuse of the Jews. Nobody is advocating genocide, or the slightest abuse of Mexicans . . . only that they come and live here legally. The U.S., to my knowledge, is one of the few nations to go soft on its immigration laws. You won't see that in Europe, and nobody's blaming them for cruelty to immigrants.

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 06:01 PM
    I know you guys are right about me being ignorant and all. I wrote all that just to blow off some steam against those two. I fell better now and I agree that the land belongs to those who are willing to fight for it. It just sadens me to see many people, not just my fellow mexicans, but also those from other countries who are willing to give anything to escape from their homelands to find some freedom and are put down by many. What I mean is that this country is founded on different cultures. The American culture is that of a "coctail" of many races. Even people who come seeking the promiseland fight in the wars that America is involved in. Many loose their lives for this country and are merited, yet not accepted by people with the mentality as those two. Yes, I wrote the stuff before with the same mental block but it was because I was blinded by hatred at the time. I trutly believe that everyone should do the best in their will to accdept eachother. Not just live a life of put eachother down for stupid events. I mean that in all sides because either way you look at it, every race has their wrongful thoughts about another race. That is what brings forth the problems. That is what one may desire but reality is different. We are all humans in the end, we humas are selfish no matter what we do right, it is for the sole reason of self appraisal. Sad but true.

    Posted by Quetzalcoatl at May 15, 2004 07:08 PM
    Dear Q:

    I'd wager most with a conservative view of immigration i.e, enforcing the laws on the books, can muster some compassion for the plight of illegals seeking refuge from their deplorable homeland conditions. The problem isn't one of mere compassion, but prudence with respect to those infrastructures which have made immigration in the U.S. a successful venture. Those infrastructures are eroding, and so to save our state hospitals, welfare system, and avoid isolated Mexican communities that see, but don't partake, of a middle class economy, we must slow down and look at the issue in terms of qualitative measures, not simply the longevity of U.S. society, i.e, not just the needs of those who have the right to come here, even legally.


    Posted by at May 15, 2004 07:50 PM
    This movie plays the race card and from reading everybodies responses they have fallen into the captialist trap.

    It is not about racist but social-economic status. This country is based on greed and power. 5% American families control 95% of the American families. I know some latinos that take advantage of other latinos. It is not just whites agianst minorities.

    In this country we either victimize or demonize people. The argument is not about race but about how humans take advantage of other humans. Captialisn is a divide and conquer philosphy. Race is just on tactic that the power that be use so that we stay divided.

    In God's eyes there are no illegal immigrants

    Posted by Tom at May 15, 2004 08:03 PM
    Tom:

    I guess we should get God to run the country, but then we'd end up like the Arabs, who can't make up their minds as to whether or not human beings should have individual sovereignty or not.

    You won't find a form of government throughout human history that wasn't dependent on power gambits and subversive ploys to gain and maintain pragmatic alliances. The weaker countries do it too, and would cherish the day they can take the role of superpower. Not a single one of them would behave in the altruistic fashion you're suggesting. Geopolitical relations aren't managed like a good marriage.

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 08:18 PM
    These responses also remind me how Martin Luther King had to deal with spiritual leaders of this so call Judo-Christian country.

    The Black Clergy came against King because they said King is using a Hindu tactic of noviolence. King responded that the best christian that ever lived in his live time was Gandi.

    The White Clergy also came against King. King repsonded that he would rather deal with the KKK than the White Clery because at least the KKK were up front and would say, "Let's hang these negros." While the the white clergy said don't worry it would all be OK in God's timing.

    King stated he could not wait for the white clergy because his people were dying.

    I say all this because America needs another moral awakening of how we treat others in this country.

    Race is a touchy subject for people who are dogmatic in their beliefs.

    This movie is just a movie and should be use as a tool of debate not ignorance.

    Remember ones persons liberator is ones persons dictator.

    Posted by Tom at May 15, 2004 08:30 PM
    I believe the people should run the country. Our constitutions has kept us from being like the Arab nations. Thank God.

    My comments are not about God, but how we as a people would compromise are morals and ethics and exploit others for material gain.

    This movie poke fun at the exploitation of Mexicans and is it this exploitation touch our moral consciousness to have this debate.

    Posted by tom at May 15, 2004 08:48 PM
    EVER SINCE THE CONQUEST..MEXICO HAS BEEN SPIT ON,
    STEPPED ON, RAPED BY THE SAME IMPERIALISTS WHO ARE STILL OUT CONQUERING NATIONS. THAT DIRTY
    MEXICO YOU PEOPLE SPEAK OF ONLY GOT TO BE THAT
    WAY AFTER THE SPANIARD,GERMAN,FRENCH,DAVY CROCKETS OF THE WORLD STOLE IT. REALIZE IT IS
    THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TURNED THE WORLD UPSIDE
    DOWN. IN ORDER TO HAVE A VERY POOR GUY, THERE
    HAS TO BE A VERY RICH ONE. HE IS THE ONE WHO
    CREATS POVERTY. PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO PLACE TO LIVE
    MUST BECOME WANDERERS IN ORDER TO FEED THEIR
    FAMILIES AND SELVES. FOR EXAMPLE: DID YOU KNOW
    THAT CABO SAN LUCAS IS NOW 75PERCENT AMERICAN
    AND THE MEXICAN WORKERS ARE BROUGHT IN FROM
    ALL PARTS OF MEXICO TO WORK IN THE RESTAURANTS
    AND HOTELS..AND CLEAN THE HOUSES OF THE RICH?
    DID YOU KNOW THAT MORE AMERICAN MIGRATE TO
    MEXICO EVERY YEAR THAN MEXICANS TO THE U.S.
    I SUGGEST SOME OF YOU FOLKS REALLY READ SOME
    HISTORY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT BRINGS MEXICANS
    TO THE U.S.(AND IT ISN'T BECAUSE IT IS THEIR
    HOME ANYWAY.)
    FLO


    Posted by Flo at May 15, 2004 10:14 PM

  5. #5
    oh and one more thing...THOSE LARGE CORPORATIONS
    THAT ARE LEAVING THE U.S. END UP GOING TO PLACES LIKE MEXICO BECAUSE THEY CAN GET TAX BREAKS (NO TAXES). THEY PAY $4.00 A DAY AND THEN RAISE THE RENTS IN TOWN. (SO WE ARE LOSING JOBS TO MEXICAN
    PEOPLE MORE THAN YOU KNOW)WHY DOESN'T ANYONE
    COMPLAIN TO THE CORPORATIONS???DO THEY CARE IF
    AMERICAN PEOPLE WITH EDUCATIONS HAVE BEEN LOSING
    THEIR JOBS IN THE LAST FEW YEARS BECAUSE THEY
    HAVE ABANDONED THE AMERICANS?
    THE MEXICAN PEOPLE HAVE TO GO LIVE OUTSIDE OF
    TOWN WHERE THEY HAVE NO PLUMBING. THEY HAVE TO
    LIVE IN SHACKS. WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH $4.00
    A DAY?

    Posted by Flo at May 15, 2004 10:22 PM
    I just want to say two things:

    1- Keith is just an ignorant idiot who is mad because he has all the benefits an American citizen has but yet an illegal Mexican is driving a better car and living in a better place than him. Get over it.

    2- Mexico is the greatest country in the world.
    It has everything gold, silver, exotic animals, some of the best beaches in the world, petroleum.
    And on top of all of that it has amazing culture. Too bad US has no culture at all they don't even have traditional dishes ohh! Wait they do sloppy joes. Tell me something what are you so proud? You like most Americans are mutts you don't even know where you come from. Mexico might not be a rich country but we are rich in family values. We don't go and stuff our elderly in some nursing home till they die. Even though we struggle we live a happier life because we are better people. I hope you rot of cancer in some nursing home Keith.

    VIVA MEXICO!!!!!!!!!


    Posted by MEXICO#1 at May 15, 2004 10:47 PM
    I said scapegoating is what happened to the Jews in Germany NOT that illegal Mexicans are being involved in genocide.

    Scapegoating is exactly what is occuring with illegal immigrants. If you would understand the various processes of genocide, you would see that scapegoating is at the inception of the process. Being perceived as sub-human is another. Like I said, earlier, educate yourself before stating your ignorant comments.

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 11:23 PM
    You guys who bark so loudly about immigrants being legal or illegal.
    Granted illegal workers come to seek work, break the law by entering undocumented. What about those anglo employers who break the law when hiring illegal workers to increase their bottom line profits? What happens to the employer when INS officials come to a place of work and find illegals? Who prosecutes the employer? Are they fined? Are they put in jail? THEY BROKE THE LAW AS MUCH AS THE WORKERS THEMSELVES !!!!
    But noooooo, We don't want to disturb them. The truth is that our government DOES NOT WANT TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION because this would **** up the economy, and by the way, most of illegal workers who get jobs with fake documents and fake social security cards are deducted their taxes with each paycheck, and for fear of being caught, they never apply for tax refunds!!! So who is the winner in this game? You tell me.


    Posted by El mocorrol at May 16, 2004 12:07 AM
    Eric,
    I'm sure u know the difference between a Mexican American and a mojado but do you know how to tell them apart? Cause I dont. How sure are you that none of those people working the fields are legal? I do. Cause I have family members who are legal and do that, only because they havent learned the language or obtained the skills,(sadly). I agree there are way too many illegals in this country that benefit from my taxes. But I see it everyday, working in the medical field, a middle to upper class person carry their medi-cal card while flashing their Mercedes,BMW, etc. car key. And that really pisses me off. These are the people who really cheat the taxpayer. If all of you who complain of illegals hate it so much, why dont you do something about instead of complaining?

    and i dr gramlich agree with mary 100%...

    Posted by Mary at May 16, 2004 01:01 AM
    To clarify the last comment. Dr. Gramlich is my husband and he's a white boy from Germany.

    Posted by Mary at May 16, 2004 01:03 AM
    I JUST GOT BACK FROM WATCHING THE MOVIE ABOUT 5 MINUTES AGO. I GOT TO THE THEATHER EXTRA EARLY SO I CAN OBSERVE THE DEMOGRAPHIC MAKE-UP OF THE POPULATION.

    THIS IS WHAT I OBSERVED. NO AFRCAN AMERICAN, 6 ASIANS, 3 WHITE MALES WITH THEIR LATINA GIRLFRIENS AND THE REST WERE LATINOS.

    THIS MOVIE CAN BE CORRELATED WITH THE MOVIE "PASSION" THE MAJORITY OF CHRSTIANS WATHCED THE MOVIE WHILE OTHER PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS CRITIZED IT AND DID NOT WATCH THE MOVIE

    I GUESS THAT OPEN MINDED PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE A RARETY.

    WE NEED TO VIEW THE SIMILARITIES IN PEOPLE AND HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THAT.

    Posted by TOM at May 16, 2004 01:34 AM
    I KNOW THAT AFTER WATCHING THIS MOVIE. WHITE CORPORATE AMERICA CAN REPLACE LATINOS WITH OTHER 3RD WORLD PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPRESSED. FOR EXAMPLE AMERICA TELECOMMUNICATIONS HIRE INDIANS FROM INDIA. CHINA HAS AN ARMY OF PEOPLE THAT WHITE CORPORATE AMERICA WANT TO EXPLOIT.

    Posted by TOM at May 16, 2004 01:48 AM
    Many "illegal" immigrants have in the past and are currently serving the war. The U.S. has promised to give them citizenship if they fight the war. Accept this everyone: illegal immigrants are marginalized and are objectified. They are thus are blamed for the economic troubles in the U.S. although there is no data to support this notion. It is a result of one's biases and stereotypes, and a function of one's inability to critique the media. The media does not tell the truth, it tells a story, so do some research and find substantial evidence that inidicates why the U.S. has economic troubles, I can assure you that immigration is not on the list.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 03:14 AM
    We CAN NOT say that this land belongs to those who conquered it. That is insensitive & cruel. Have you people not heard of Native Americans!!!! This is their land, but they are seen as invisible (just like other minorities) in many of your eyes. I'd like someone to respond to this and to the true notion that you attacking illegal immigrants is nothing but a scapegoat! Be responsible & know your history.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 04:06 AM
    After reading so many different comments, I have come to the conclusion that there is a lot of ignorant people out there that like to hate just because they have nothing better to do. My parents came to the United States when I was only 10 yrs old, withouth knowing the language or anything else about this country. My mother started taking ESOL (English as a second language) courses back in 1990, she now has a masters degree in Social Psychology and has a very high position at a local Psych hospital here in TX. I am now 22 yrs old and am only a semester away from obtaining my B.A in Psychology. My point here is that not all the Mexicans are dirty, thiefs, prostitutes or bad people, there's good and there's bad just like in any other race. My parents have worked really hard to provide my two sisters and me with a better life. I am extremely proud of all they have accomplished. Because of Mexicans such as my parents I now have a better future. I am proud to be a Mexican just as I am proud to be an American.
    People, don't hate..be realistic and accept the fact that Mexicans are pretty much everywhere. By giving negative statements you will not fix anything instead you will just degrade yourself as a person.

    Something to think about: Last summer I visited England and France...I learnt being American is not the best thing!!! Many people treated rahter rude only because of my American English... After that sad experience I opted to speak only Spanish and to say I was Mexican...The treatment that I received was fantastic...

    To every American living in this country wheather you're from Europe, Asia,Central or South America or anywhere else let's focus on being people rather than "arrogant americans" as a French woman called me.. lol
    GOD BLESS AMERICA and VIVA MEXICO!

    Posted by David Soto at May 16, 2004 07:48 AM
    DAVID SOTO

    YOU ARE A BREATHE OF FRESH AIR. IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT SOME GOT AWAY FROM US AGAINST THEM MENTALLITY. I JUST WANT TO CONGRATULATE YOU FOR ACADENIC ACHIEVEMENTS.

    I GRADUATED FROM PITZER COLLEGE WITH A PSYCHOLOGY DEGREE IN 1999. I HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR A LAW FIRM EVER SINCE. I ALSO HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH A PROFESSOR FROM UCLA AND PITZER STUDING BICULTURAL CONFLCT AMONG LATINOS.

    AS A LATINO, I BEEN ACTIVE IN MY COMMUNTIY NOT FIGHTING THE SYSTEM BUT EDUCATING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATES ABOUT THE SYSTEM. WE HAVE HAD IMMIGRANT RIGHTS WORKSHOPS, HAD WORKSHOPS FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TO OBTAIN THEIR GREEN CARD, AND FOR THEM TO EVEN GET A HIGH SCHOOL DIPOLMA.

    IN THE BIBLE IN THE BOOK OF 2 TIMOTHY 2;23 IT STATES "BUT AVOID FOOLISH AND IGNORANT DISPUTES KNOWING THAT THEY GENERATE STRIFE."

    I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS FREAK BUT I HAVE LEARNED THAT WHEN YOU ARE AM IGNORANT PEOPLE YOU HIT THEM WITH LOVE.

    Posted by TOM at May 16, 2004 11:58 AM
    I teach kindergarten in public school, and ESL in adult school at night. 100% of my students are either from Mexico or another country in Central America. Obviously, without students, I would be working in another profession. My life is better because people come here from Mexico. I am a white person who appreciates the contributions made by "Latinos". I hope that everyone realizes that most Americans do not share the racist opinions that some people have expressed in this forum. Please don't judge us based on the outdated notions that a minority of people have. My students are bright, hard working, and are an asset to our nation. My adult students work all day, and then come to class at night to learn English. My Kindergarten pupils can read, write and do math. To be honest with you, I'm sick and tired of all the race hate that goes on between adults. If you were in my Kindergarten class, I'd give you recess detention! The wonderful children in my class don't even know that I'm white. I'm their teacher! So, can we please remember what our parents and teachers have taught us about being nice to each other? We all live here together. No one is leaving, and every group contributes to our great nation. We're in this together, so let's put aside the ancient hatreds, and learn to live together in peace.

    Posted by Ben at May 16, 2004 12:21 PM
    ...unfortunately some Mexican people still need to distinguish themselves from "dirty Mexicans."
    My father was a dirty Mexican because he did hard labor out in the fields. He also managed a
    large Ranch for many years and many times came
    home with dirt rings around his eyes. The Spanish
    word for dirt is "Tierra." It is our MOTHER and
    that which yealds the bounty that we all live off
    of..."Dirt..Tierra is sacred"
    MY FATHER came here in the 40's to fill a void
    when American men went to war. It was our own
    government that welcomed people like my father.
    FYI...if you read history you will also note
    that Mexican Immigrants were drafted into the 1st
    world war. My uncle was one of those.
    I have education and have traveled much in my
    life time and I hate to admit that when in Europe
    I had to speak Spanish to get better service.
    There are so many people in this country that
    haven't been treated right by the conquerors.
    Mexican, Japanese, Africans, Chinese...the list
    goes on. Now unfortunately we have a President
    who is putting some final touches on our bad
    reputation.
    Flo

    Posted by Flo at May 16, 2004 03:37 PM
    TO David & all of the other Latinos who have struggled through oppression & still managed to receive an education, Congratulations! Unfortunately we are still not immune from racism because of the country we live in. I think what the film failed to recognize was that educated Latinos also make the economy work. Being a doctoral student in a psychology program, the stereotypical & racist comments in this forum have driven me to find the subject for my doctoral project & thesis. I am proud to say that I came from a traditional Mexican family & that my father worked in the fields for 12 years.

    I am proud of my culture but I am also proud that I have been learning about many different cultures. There is so much to learn out there and one of the best ways to do it is to educate yourself and immerse yourself in activities within cultures (i.e. through an AME church or an Indian temple). I would also suggest reading books from different cultures.

    For the purpose of this forum, here are some books I know from the Latino culture:

    One Hundred Year of Solitude, by Nobel Prize winner, Gabriel Garcia Marquez

    The Labyrinth of Solititude, by Nobel Prize winner, Octavio Paz

    Selected Poems of Gabriela Mistral, by Nobel Prize winning author Gabriela Mistral


    As for Ben's comment, yes it is true, not all white people are racist and I admire when the majority culture comprehends the struggles of the minority cultures. There are those of us humans who hold PRIVILEGE because we are White or Men or those from upper class or hetereosexual or those who are able bodied (that is we don't have a disability) or all of the above.

    Then there are the oppressed groups such as all ethnic minorities (i.e. Mexican men), women, Jews,
    Native Americans, those with a disability,the poor, and the GLBT populations.
    Also, here is a book that can serve to teach us something about multicultural issues, oppression etc.:

    Readings for Diversity & Social Justice by Adams et.al.

    Have fun!


    Posted by viewer of film at May 16, 2004 03:51 PM
    FLO
    I agree with you! It is quite cruel to say that humans are "dirty"!!! Dirty is an object not a person!!!

    Posted by viewer of film at May 16, 2004 03:54 PM
    Is it racist to expect illegals to undergo legalization and live as citizens in this country? Expecting so is no form of scapegoating. And it is hardly scapegoating to point out the travesty being inflicted on our state hospital systems, education and welfare systems every day. But this both a socio-economic and a human rights issue. The dilemma is that you can't treat the former with the ideals of the latter, which seems to be lost in many of the comments previously made.

    There isn't a single nation on the planet, including Mexico, that doesn't thrive on scapegoating. This isn't a comment about individual intelligence or integrity in any way, but a realistic view of geopolitics. The more power you have, the more you exploit; it is human nature. When we extrapolate from individual moral precepts to collective socio-economic functioning, we can easily confuse the national machinery for racism and other inequites. This stuff has been going on for millenia, and if it were really a matter of individual moral terpitude, then we would have solved it centuries ago. What we criticize as the dysfunctional relationship between national, state and local planning and individual freedoms is a deeply embedded tendency in all ideologies. There are virtuous aspects to many of them, including communism, socialism and capitalism. But each flounders when you expect moral correctness.

    A case in point, which I saw some months ago. A city council has taken decades to relocate poor black and hispanic citizens from a flood zone to areas of town that are free of this seasonal threat. It was a travesty that it took so long, and many have been quick to point out that had the the wealthier part of town suffered this threat action would have been swifter. I agree. But the action taken, or not taken, is driven by fiscal possibilities, where "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." It is, from an individual standpoint, selfish and destructive, but from an urban-economic point-of-view mostly a matter of funding. The rich area of town brings in a thousand-fold more in city revenue, and this alone compels city councils to maintain such an imbalance. But it would be equally wrong to say that most of the coucil members were selfish or mean-spirited. In fact, many are non-whites, but recognize the economic pitfalls in urban planning that appear as cruelty at the individual level.


    Posted by at May 16, 2004 07:54 PM
    And to continue . . . . the comment made by Ben re: his ESL students. I taught ESL too, for several years. I never felt racist toward my students, but at the same time could see the problems being created by illegal immigration, especially in the south. Maybe it seems so much more like racism down here because of white southern history. But it isn't racist to point out some of the very real problems. One such problem was with ESL itself. At the primary and secondary levels, I no longer believe it should even be taught on an ongoing basis. When children are immersed into the english language cirriculum, with only a few years of language classes to facilitate the process, they are in a much better position to transcend the largely lower-socio-economic restraints of their mostly Spanish speaking parents. A problem with this, of course, is that it begins a process of strain between generations, but that much is inevitable if the ensuing generations are going to surpass the limited success of their parents in this country.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 08:03 PM
    Those of you who trash the U.S. wouldn't be doing so if it didn't give Mexicans an opportunity out of their native plight. We wouldn't even be having these exchanges. Anybody see any illegal immigrant flooding of the Canadian/U.S. border? If your going to criticize the U.S., at least be more than blindly loyal to Mexico.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 08:09 PM
    And for those that have the stomach to study the data behind the concern with illegals, here's a web link:

    http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back903coverage.html

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 08:19 PM
    I just posted a new message announcing this compilation of articles:

    http://www.jasonsimms.com/archives/2..._articles.html

    I know the author, Victor Davis Hanson. He is a well-respected author and fellow classicist. His research on this subject is fairly exhaustive. Bottom line: he seems to feel that immigration is destroying the infrastructure of California, but anybody who opens up the topic for discussion is labeled, as he puts is, a "racist."

    Just from the comments on this topic, I can understand what he means...

    Posted by Jason at May 16, 2004 08:56 PM
    Has there been scientific research that has validated the economic effects of immigration with an amount of "concensus"? With reliability & validity taken into account? I don't know but I found this in an article from that website that was just posted:

    Fiscal Effects

    The report does not contain any new research on the fiscal impact of immigration; instead, the chapter on the public sector summarizes the authors' previous study of the issue (Vernez and McCarthy, 1996), which explored the relevant questions and reviewed findings from a number of different studies. As in their earlier work, the authors conclude that there is NO consensus regarding the budgetary consequences of immigration in California, as different studies have produced a wide range of estimates. The reason for the divergent findings stems from a number of factors: In many cases there is no agreement on how to estimate immigrant and native tax revenue and public service use from existing administrative and survey data. There is also a disagreement on whether to count public services, such as welfare, used by the U.S.-born minor children of immigrants as a cost attributable to immigration.

    -------
    Why do you think the INS doesn't deport every illegal immigrant in the U.S? They have the means to do it.

    As for "trashing the U.S," it is not a matter of trashing, it is a matter of REALITY of the prevalence of racism & oppression in the U.S. It is a matter of understanding the social problems that exist.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 09:19 PM
    I agree that teaching primary and secondary classes in English to students who speak another language is the best way to assimilate them into our society. When I teach ESL to adult students, I rarely use translation as a teaching strategy. The best way to learn English is to speak it. Also, I agree that pointing out problems that may exist in our communities isn't racist. We need to have reasonable dialogues between groups of people to address problems. What I don't agree with are the mean spirited generalizations that some people use to advance their particular agenda. Every group has "good, bad and the ugly". I'm surprised that after all this time we need to keep repeating this statement. It seems that educators need to redouble their efforts to teach the values of tolerance and justice to our students. Then MAYBE, we can take steps to have the kind of society that reflects the values put forth so eloquently in documents such as the Decleration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

    Posted by Ben at May 16, 2004 10:22 PM
    sa a chicano i'm proud of my mexican history and also proud of the future that me and my future family will have in this country. I don't even worry about ssn because by the time i.m at least 50 that program will be over and not because of us latinos but because of baby boomers, wich white people that means that you.re parent.s are in totall a greater # that what you.re grandparent put into ssn while they wore young. By the way, if all you 20-30 old white guys are worried that you.re dream job can't be fullfield because an immigrant that never finish 3rd grade "stoled" you.re job, please just shut up and do something about it in school. Stop acting like you wish you wore black or latino. Soon, not only would we dominate labor work, but we will also take over all the other jobs. Later,you will be pumping my son.s car.

    Posted by victor at May 17, 2004 04:59 AM
    **** all the sellouts, **** my big mexican ***** you ****en pochitos.

    Posted by pochokiller at May 17, 2004 06:00 AM
    Eric

    You are one stupid mexican-american
    Noone take anybody's job you get what you fight for. i am an illegal alien and were i work the people that work the hardest are the ones that recieve the best money and treatment from their employerrs. And guess what there is not one white person in the store i work in. I think i am the only illegal alien. And they all treat me with respect.

    One more thing i am going to college and the government does not pay a penny for my tution. While my girlfriend a mexican american with the same GPA as me gets two grand a year for school when she only spends about 1,300 a year. Immigrants are not to blame for the US poor economy. Stupid mistakes the government makes are the cause

    Posted by oscar at May 17, 2004 12:21 PM
    In order to better understand and solve the problems associated with immigration and racism, we really need to focus on economic policy and government. The majority of the postings are really caught up in expressing opinions on equality, superiority and inferiority of race and culture, and pointing fingers. Does it really matter who is to blame for our shortcomings if we are not going to examine their cause and find a solution to the problem? Receiving words of validation of one's cultural, ethinic, or racial identity feels great but does not address the problem. Social problems are often driven by economic problems which are most expeditiously cured through changes in government. Like it or not, the government is the machine which controls our destiny as a nation; if you don't like something, become active and seek political change. Please let's stop our *****ing and moaning and realize that placing blame accomplishes nothing without actual change. Let's examine the hard facts; speculation is meaningless until it is substantiated with fact.

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 01:29 PM
    LUIS SANCHEZ, SAYS:

    "This Forum is filled with very racist comments."

    Then he goes on to say:

    "America is plain racist and it has always been. Accepted. "(nice generalization there buddy)

    AND...

    "Another thing if you do not like Latinos get out because Whites are a minority here. I hope you are getting your ship ready because in 2050 or so the U.S. s probably going to be as the population growth says" 50% of the U.S. will be probably Latino
    Pack your bags and get on the Mayflower.
    That is back to Europe or else where.
    But not the U.S."(and he bellows about Americans being racist)

    AND...


    "YOU CANNOT LIFE WITHOUT US.

    THUS, SHUT UP.

    OR YOU WILL BE TREATED ACCORDINGLY." (thinly veiled threats to "non-latinos". Again, a racist comment/threat).

    Then LUIS says:

    "And please do not say that Americans do not like undocumented immigrants equally.

    Wake up if you are a certain color, you are going to be treated differently."

    MY RESPONSE: HAHAHAHAHA. This is funny. Listen LUIS, you mestizo ****. Mestizos and criollos back in Mexico treat full blooded Mexican indians like dogs. Admit it. They are treated like second class citizens in Mexico. They get no affirmative action, no "assistance for the underrepresented, etc." If you say they do, then you are a LIAR LUIS!!!!

    Then LUIS says:

    "I am a U.S. born Mexican attending UC Berkeley and I still get the same **** as an UNdocumented Mexican.

    Why do you see so many Asians getting accepted into College? Think!!

    Really this time use your brain!!

    Well, racism duhhh!!!

    Asians are no better than Mexicans
    They just happen to adhere to the U.S. system not American because the U.S really just stole that name from the continent.

    Learn. Go to school and get an education.

    Many educated Mexicans in the University are degraded. And you know why because racist do not like the fact that we are strong people who do not like kissing ***.

    Yes. Thats the reason why you do not see that many Mexicans and other Latinos in the Nation in colleges and Universities."

    MY RESPONSE: The reason you don't see so many Mexicans in college is because they don't emphasize education the way that whites and Asians generally do. Mexicans emphasize breeding like rats, not education. I read a story about a Mexican girl in Oregon recently (15 years old). She had to quit school temporarily to help support her family. Was her family 2 children? Was her family 3 children? Hell no, she had 16 brothers and sisters. Her parents were sacrificing her EDUCATION in order to support the herd of children they had. Asians and whites generally have 2 kids a piece. Thats why they are able to provide for a better future.

    I also read a story about a Korean family that came to America. The mother and father had 2 children. They sacrificed working long hours at menial jobs so their kids could succeed. Eventually, there son attended and graduated from Harvard Medical school with honors. So there you have it. Generally speaking:

    Successful whites and Asians sacrifice for their children to provide for their education and future.

    Mexicans sacrifice their children's future by having too many kids. They don't emphasize education. Why do Mexicans have so many kids??? They do this not to help their kids, but to help themselves. Mexicans breed like rats because they think that if they have many kids, the kids will support them when they get old.

    Listen LUIS, if Mexicans want a better standard of living, start using birth control and emphasizing education. The reason you are in college is most likely because of affirmative action. I would bet my left pinky finger that there was a more qualified white or Asian applicant that didn't get accepted because they needed to make room for your stupid ***. So stop biting the hand that feeds you MORON!!!!


    NOW LUIS BRINGS UP SOME WORN OUT "LA RAZA" PROPOGANDA BULLSHIITE. HE SAYS:

    "bECAUSE REMEMBER YOU ARE THE IMMIGRANT WE WERE ALREADY HERE.

    yOU STOLE OUR LAND NOT US.

    REMEMBER CALI, COLORADO, NEW MEXICO, TEXAS AND PARTS OF UTAH WERE OWNED BY MEXICO AND THE U.S CAME AND STOLE IT. rIGHT YOU REMEMBER NOW.

    MY RESPONSE: LUIS, you are obviously not a history major. First of all, the land was not "stolen". The US PURCHASED the southwest from Mexico. They paid Mexico more for the southwest than they paid to France for the Louisianna Purchase.

    Additionally, Spain STOLE the southwest from the native americans. Spain did not pay one peso to the indians that lived (and still do) in California, Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, etc. When Mexico won it's independence from Spain, it felt it should have "rightful" ownership of the southwest. Well guess what LUIS, Spain, nor Mexico was or were ever the rightful owner of the southwest. The native americans that live there are the rightful owners. If you say that the US "stole" the southwest from Mexico, then I say it was stealing from a thief!!! Mexico (via Spain) stole the land from the indians. And don't try to say that the Aztecs, Maya, etc are the same as the native tribes of the southwest, because they are NOT!!!!

    SECONDLY, there were only 80,000 Mexicans in Texas, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, and Utah when the US PURCHASED the Southwest. Eighty thousand is nothing.

    Mexicans like LUIS make me laugh. They think that the southwest would be better off if it was part of Mexico. Do you really think that LUIS??? Do you really think that the southwest would be some sort of utopia if it was still controlled by Mexico??? I believe it would be a run-down, impoverished, corrupt, craphole just like most of Mexico. Blame the character of your people LUIS, don't blame Americans. What would happen if the US were to sell the southwest back to Mexico??? Well, in fifty years or so, the Mexicans would have screwed the place up so badly, that Mexicans would have to flee again to "white/asian" areas just to find work. Again LUIS, blame the character of your people, not whites or asians.

    NOW LUIS SAYS:

    "DON'T WORRY CAPITALISM WILL COME TO AN END!!!!
    I BET THAT THERE WILL COME THE TIME WHEN YOU WILL BE BEGGING TO A MEXICAN TO STAY BECAUSE YOU CANNOT SURVIVE ALONE.

    THUS, CALIFORNIA MIGHT BE ONE OF THE FEW STATES STANDING WHEN THE U.S. ECONOMY COLLAPSES."


    MY RESPONSE: This is just more propaganda pawned off by the pro-illegal immigration lobby. Dont believe it. Go to Missouri. Check it out. White and black americans clean hotel rooms, mow lawns, wash dishes, act as nannies, etc. All the jobs that the pro-illegal immigration lobby claims Americans won't do. The truth is that Americans don't want to work for slave wages. To a Mexican, $5 per hour is riches. It is like paying an American $40 per hour. Mexicans will gladly work for $5 per hour or less and then live like pigs. They are used to it. Americans would prefer to be paid a fair wage. Big business just wants cheap labor, so they claim that americans won't do these jobs. My grandfather was a migrant farm worker in the midwest - he was white. Americans have always done these jobs, its just that in the past, the wages were better, because there wasn't the flood of excess workers from Mexico driving down wages. It's simple supply and demand. Too many workers= low wages.

    Unfortunately most ignorant Mexicans just don't get it. That's why they continue to breed like rats. Eventually, when their kids grow up, there will be too many workers and not enough jobs. Face it, they are going to create the same situation here that they created in Mexico.

    To any Mexican out there, I have a couple of questions:

    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico?

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages?

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc).

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks?

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?

    Posted by FeckLuisSanchez at May 17, 2004 02:03 PM

  6. #6
    There are so many ignorant people out there hating on us, I don't know what their problem is. But I do know that Mexicans (as well as all Hispanics) are hardworkers who have what they have because of their strenght to do so. One day they'll see that we're worth so much more what they think. Those who cross the border are so courageous in risking their lives to help their families. Thanks to our parents we have the opportunity to be educated and speak out and prove those ignorant wrong. A teacher has told me it is rare to see hispanic students in honors classes and here where I am I see it. I'm one in two mexicans in my classes that have thirty kids. And I'm gonna make something of it to prove them wrong. We don't just work in fields, there are so many of us who are what they consider "successful", but don't get recognized.
    It's really awesome to see our people here trying to make better but sad to see discrimination out of pure ignorance. You know what I hope to see too? Us getting our education and major then going back to Mexico and help out and improve it there, make it as strong as the US. Because like someone here said it is a beautiful country that has everything.
    (sorry if I ran off)

    Posted by Mexicangrl at May 17, 2004 03:04 PM
    mexicangrl says:

    "But I do know that Mexicans (as well as all Hispanics) are hardworkers"

    Oh, is that right?? ALL Hispanics are hardworkers? Is that any less of a stereotype than saying "all Jews are cheap", or "all whites are rich".

    What a load of **** mexicangrl. I have never met such a self-congratulating race of people in my life. Let a Mexican wash dishes and they will end up telling you that the world would not function without their efforts. What a bunch of arrogant, self-important, braggarts.

    Posted by feckLuisSanchez at May 17, 2004 05:22 PM
    I am starting to become concerned about the spelling, grammar, sentence structure, and general writing skills of those writing the opinions expressed here. I don't want to knock anybody but it seems really obvious that our schools are failing us. If honors students and college graduates are writing at this level, we are doomed.

    Posted by at May 17, 2004 05:52 PM
    oscar,
    I applaud you that you are going to college and that you have good computer and writing skills. Are you paying in-state tuition, out of state tuition or international tuition? If you're paying less than international tuition rates, I'd say that you are a drain on our economy by taking away tax dollars that should go to american born citizens.

    Posted by eric at May 17, 2004 06:14 PM
    I am sorry that you fell this way.
    I apologize if the truth offends you but its true. I cannot erase the truth. However, I do respect your opinion. Because without it I cannot prove myslef to this world.
    That is because I need challenges to overcome.


    For your info: Joe "American."

    A true American would not use the word "Ignorant" to put another person down.
    But I guess you do not believe in the true principles and ethics of the word "liberty."


    Affirmative Action does not exist in California.
    It was banned in the 90s.
    Michigan does have Affirmative Action.

    Segregation still exists read.
    Even the SF Chronicle now acknowledges the fact that Brown v. Board of Ed did not do anything to desegregate public schools.

    I went to a low performing school in the Mission and I am still doing better in UC Berkeley than a student who went to Lowell.

    Also better than students from Orange county and LA.


    Currently, I have a 3.33 GPA at UC Berkeley.

    How can you explain the fact that my Mexican American friend who does not even speak Spanish at all, failed his college writing class at UC Berkeley. That is while an asian passed and can barely speak English or write it. Some of my asian friends passed but I do not even understand their writing.

    Their sentences are very confusing and grammatically incorrect.

    I see this currently happening in the CA University system. How do you think I feel when whites and asians ignore me because of my skin color?

    How do you think I feel when the police does not do anything to solve my case but just write a report?

    How do you think I feel when at a restaurant or store I am told to leave?

    How do you think I feel when someone like your self tells me that I do not deserve to be at CAL?

    Currently, at Cal I have been working with Boalt school of Law and you know what they think? They think that if I keep it up and **** it up and don't quit that I will get very far.


    Far as in achieving a high degree of education.

    I would want to see you graduate from Cal and get a Ph.D and write books to encourage your people.

    Well, that's what I am going to do and I will not stop there.

    How many people have you helped gain their self esteem?

    Right! You just tried to put me down.

    It did not work!!!!

    I dealt with people like yourself throughout my life and found out that your inside is empty.

    I find no Heart!

    You throw out 60 yr stereotypes.

    You Plaigiariser!

    Wheres your original work. It seems as if you really can't think. At least your email is telling me this.

    you generalize too much.

    Thus, you steal others arguments. That is since you did not "cite" the tons of Republicans and few dems that perpetuated all the stereotypes you mentioned.


    How can you even argue, if you do not even speak for yourself.

    Come on you are human right! Then use the analytical skills that you have for good.

    Stop making remarks! Stop perpetuating the lack of knowledge that some Whites have.


    and about Mexicans not emphasizing education:

    you are wrong.

    That is because I bet there isn't anybody brighter than Mexicans, other Latinos, AFrican Americans, and other poor Ethnic groups (inculding poor Whites) in the U.S.

    We are capable of surviving by barely making ends meet.

    Can you live with 17,000 annually in a family of 8?

    If you can congrats.


    We are tired of learning eurocentric ideals and history.

    That is why many of us do not like U.S. public schools.

    Let us learn our history and culture.

    Plus we cannot afford expensive Univeristies.



    I currently have a full scholarship at UC Berkeley.

    You see.

    Many Latinos are at community colleges and CSU's. (17-30% or so)

    But not in the UC's were like 10 or less.


    Many college students of middle class and upper class background would not be able to survive in the inner city with just a few dollars.


    And for Capitalism:

    Read: Karl Marx's book and learn.


    About Latin American governments

    Most Mexican Presidents have graduated from Ivy league Universities such as Harvard.

    Don't you think this is funny. How can the country be so screwed up. Maybe they are sell outs to the U.S. gov


    Are you aware of what is going on in Afghanistan and Iraq?

    Did you know that the U.S. is planting and maintaining oppium in Afghanistan.

    Oppium is Afghanistans greatest economic interest.

    What about the U.S. War on Drugs?

    The gov. has not done anything to stop drug traffiking.


    There are so many drugs that are easily accessed.


    Sorry, about generalizing about the U.S.. I meant to speak about California.

    Because the reality is that the gov. has the ability of educating its people but it rather builds prisons and imprisons them.

    In the past decade there has been more prisons built than schools.



    So on what side are you on?



    Are you ready to fulfill America's promise.

    "No Child Left Behind"


    Why does the rest of world dislike the U.S.?

    Good question. Think. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste"

    "Where's our Country"-Michael Moore

    Bowling for Columbine.

    Now, there is a man I give credit to.


    Peace,

    Luis E. Sanchez
    UC Berkeley
    Undergrad
    "The Golden Rule:"
    "Treat others like you want to be treated"

    Read and educate yourself.
    Put some Heart into your writing.



    "A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives"
    -Jackie Robinson



    Posted by Luis E. Sanchez at May 17, 2004 06:36 PM
    for all you haters out there, Mexicans are here to stay, like it or not.

    We have much deeper roots in these lands than all of you, so stop whining!!!

    Compatriotas no les hagan caso a estos gringos they don't know any better.

    Posted by Adelita at May 17, 2004 06:56 PM
    Are we really going to solve any problems with a "who has deeper roots in this land (Mexicans or white people) contest"? Does it matter who has deeper roots? Isn't racism and social injustice what we are trying to eradicate? For all you white people who are racist towards Latinos, I have no respect for you. And guess what!!!! Hey all you Latinos who are throwing the racist comments right back, I have no respect for you either.

    People, realize that Latinos are here. Some are documented and legal, some are not. Either way, they are a fast-growing population and are not going away.

    Latinos, educate yourselves!!!! Don't live up to the stereotypes, do something to change them!!!!

    It is cool to remember and honor your culture, but you are in the U.S.! It makes me mad to read comments about reading and learning "our" language, history, and culture. We all live in the same nation and share a national identity- we are Americans, our national language is English. We should learn English and American history and learn about American government in school BECAUSE WE LIVE IN AMERICA!!!!

    That's not to say that we shouldn't learn about other cultures too or study other languages. To receive an education is a privilege. DON'T USE EDUCATION TO BUILD A WALL AROUND YOURSELVES. You are living in the U.S. so learn its language, learn about its history, learn about its government- make an effort!!!! You don't have to forget your past. A lot of us have parents who are immigrants but we still think of ourselves as AMERICANS.

    It just saddens me to read these ethnocentric comments (meaning those comments that seem to put down anyone or anything that isn't Mexican). I feel bad for those people who really want to be in the U.S. but unfortunately are represented by a bunch of haters. THIS IS NOT MEXICO. THIS IS NOT CHINA. THIS IS NOT ENGLAND. THIS IS NOT GERMANY. THIS IS NOT ANY PLACE BUT THE U.S. SO LET'S TRY TO EMBRACE IT!

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 07:46 PM
    We forget who california, texas, and arizonas true Native Americans were, Mexicans. We are a native people who have been rapped and robbed of our heritage and name by white society. We find ourselves looking for this so called foriegn American dream working backbreaking work for below minimum wage. Doing the jobs that many whites would shun and consider " a mexicans job". We live in slums along the borders, working for big businesses who love to exploit us. Our women are used as sexual stereotypes in your hollywood, our mothers watch your anglo children then return home to raise there own in substandard housing and send our children to substandard schools. You exploit us for the very dollar we spend on your goods! Yet still we advance! Sending our youth to college, becoming doctors, lawyers, police, teachers! This is what they fear! Not the fact that we crowd our own impoverished schools and clinics! We are soon to be the majority, no longer minorities! We are natives in this country filled with Eruopean immigrants! We cross no border, but try our hardest to survive in this, Old Mexico! Survive against the gready, selfish society that sees the need to exploit the poor, ravish our natural resources, drive polluting SUV's, spead disease, promote violence and wars! Remember, we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!

    Posted by lisa at May 17, 2004 08:30 PM
    LETS STOP PLANNING THE BLAME GAME AND THINK OF SOLUTION TO HELP ILLEGALS BECOME LEGALIZED.

    AS I STATED EARLIER, I AM LATINO. I BEEN ACTIVE IN MY COMMUNTIY NOT FIGHTING THE SYSTEM BUT EDUCATING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATES ABOUT THE SYSTEM. WE HAVE HAD IMMIGRANT RIGHTS WORKSHOPS, HAD WORKSHOPS FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TO OBTAIN THEIR GREEN CARD, AND OBTANING A HIGH SCHOOL DIPOLMA.

    TODAY, I AM IN A HIGH SCHOOL DOING A STUDY ON LATINO ADOLESCENTS AND ACCULTURATION. MY CONCERN IS TO STOP THE HIGH DROP OUT RATE OF LATINOS.

    YOU COULD ARGUE ALL YOU WANT. AS FOR ME I DON'T HAVE TIME TO ARGUE, I AM TO BUSY WITH MY COMMUNITY TO EDUCATE AND COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS.

    Posted by TOM at May 17, 2004 09:11 PM
    I JUST WANT TO APOLOGIZE ABOUT MY WRITTING SKILLS. HOWEVER, IF I CAN GET MY CONCEPT OUT THERE I KNOW PEOPLE ARE EDUATED ENOUGH TO MAKE SENSE OF IT.


    Posted by TOM at May 17, 2004 09:16 PM
    Has everyone forgotten that Mexico was colonized by the Spanish before any Anglos ever had anything to do with the southwestern U.S.? There was only a very brief period of time between when the Mexicans won their independence from Spain before they sold their land to the U.S.

    Aside, from that, what I am hearing in a lot of the postings is that this whole conflict has everything to do with wealth and poverty, a class struggle: people with little or no money hating those with money. Guess what? These sentiments are not specific to Latinos. Poor white people resent and hate wealthy white people. Poor Mexicans resent and hate wealthy Mexicans. It is human nature to have disdain for the people who have what you want.

    Further, I applaud all Americans, including Latino-Americans, who are hard workers and are trying to educate their children so they can live better lives. But, guess what? Latinos are not the only immigrants who have ever come to America and worked hard. Latinos are not the only people who have been discriminated against. My own parents and grandparents left communist countries and came here without any money, without speaking English, and without any friends or family. My grandmothers worked in factories, alongside my grandfathers,- they did not have the luxury of staying home. They sent their kids to school and made them work hard so they could become doctors and lawyers.

    I am not asking for special sympathy or recognition. I just think that a lot of people have overcome conditions that seemed insurmountable. We can all do it if we try hard enough. We are our own oppressors.

    Finally, I must say that I do not agree with this idea that white people and the American government fear the rising power of Latinos and use the so-called fiction of overcrowded, impoverished schools as a scapegoat. I really think that the government is concerned about impoverishment: not having enough resources to provide adequate education, roads, sewers, clean water, police/fire/safety and public assistance, in the form of healthcare and food to the truly destitute, to the legal citizens of this country. No government does or could ever purport to guarantee these benefits to people illegally wihtin its borders. It is a tough choice to make and one that is not made easily, but this truly is not land of endless resources. It only makes sense that the government wants to provide for the people who obey its laws.

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 09:30 PM
    Keep up the good work Tom!!!!!

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 09:31 PM
    I understand how the topic of illegal immigration can trigger extreme responses, but many of your arguments are destroyed by irrational outbursts (not to mention terrible spelling and usage). Hasn't there been irrefutable proof that the indigenous people of the Americas migrated here from Asia over the previously-frozen Bering Straits? Really, everybody just needs to get over who's on first.
    Can I understand why people come here illegally (from everywhere)?. Of course. Is this unchecked illegal migration going to overload, and subsequently sink, our tax/benefit structure? Of course. Arguing about the superiority of ANY group is an exercise in futility. Everyone is to blame. Stop bragging about who picks whose vegetables, or who invented a calendar, or atomic bombs! Who gives a ****?

    Posted by CG at May 17, 2004 09:47 PM
    In response to Abbys comments:
    "U.S. win the land from Mexico in a war, and didn't Mexico win it from the Spanish in a war, and didn't the Spanish pilfer it from the indigenous peoples? And didn't the indigenous peoples fight over the lands and didn't the indigenous people come from somewhere else, oh I don't know- maybe they migrated from Mesopotomia through the Bering Strait?"
    Dear Abby, I don't mean to be rude, or to insult you for that matter. This just needed to be said. I really don't think you have the insight, nor the right to make such comments. Your comments might make sense for someone looking for a general, simple, yet nevertheless slightly ignorant answer. I assure you it's no panacea for this controversy as you might lead one to believe. To truly understand the impact of this war one must understand, even if only slightly, the Mexican mind set. One must first take into consideration the mixed heritage that comes with being Mexican. As a Mexican, I know that I am Spanish, Indian, and even of those who crossed the bearing straight to come here. I am of all those nationalities, including African, and many more. I share my heritage and traditions from many people. You need to understand that even though we've come from a country of seemingly endless wars and takeovers, there is one huge difference from those wars prior, and the Mexican American war. The prior wars ended with assimilation, they made an attempt to assimilate, (even Indian wars usually ended with the conqueror marring into the defeated leaders family) and it was so successful (especially with the Spanish and Indians) that the majority of Mexicans today are mestizo (of mixed heritage). This was wide spread, not only in a few cases. On the other hand, the Americans, for the most part, had in mind to extinguish the Mexicans all together. They had no desire to assimilate, join, cultures, languages, traditions, they had there own ways of life which they considered superior, even when they were gusts, or squatters in former Mexico. To this day people are still weary of Mexican culture penetrating the "all holy" American culture. The United States may have won the land in war, but it did so in a way that is reminiscent of a police officer beating a confession out of a suspect. But this little explanation is still insufficient in describing how we Mexicans truly feel, how we perceive injustice, and pride, at least that's true for me. I hope know you better understand, even if tinged with ignorance, why some Mexicans are so angry over the American takeover, thank you.


    Posted by magdalena cruz de guadalupe jimenez at May 17, 2004 10:17 PM
    First of all, the United States wouldn't be what it is today w/o illegal immigrants, whether you're Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, Irish, or African etc etc etc. Bottom line is immigrants have made the United States what it is today. If you look back at our countrie's history immigrants shaped the United States.To be quite honest with all of you we're all immigrants to this country, not one of us is a native. Somewhere down your family tree your family immigrated from another country whether they were one of the first colonists on this continent, an African forcefully brought to America on a slave ship, or one of the Mexican's trying to cross as we speak in hopes of a better life. Even the Indians came from Asia as they followed game across the Bering Strait (when it had frozen over) into the North American Continent. So we all need to realize where we came from before we critisize others for hopes of a better life. Somewhere in all of our families our family struggled and worked hard to make this country what it is today and making a good life for their family to come. All I know is I'm glad to be an American and I'm sure as hell even happier that my family came to the United States, otherwise who knows where I would be or what I would be.

    Posted by Someone at May 17, 2004 10:45 PM
    HEY GREAT DEBATE.

    BUT I THANK GOD MY PARENTS WHO CAME TO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALY DID NOT HAVE THE EDUCATION THAT WE HAVE. SOME TIME AT LEAST IN MY EXPERIENCE IN COLLEGE, WE GET TOO ANALYTICAL AND TOO PHILISOPHICAL BUT NOT PRATICAL.

    I AM SURE GLAD MY PARENTS TOOK THE PRACTICAL APPROACH AND HAD ENOUGH SENSE TO TELL ME TO LIVE LIFE AND HELP ONE OTHER WITH THEIR BASIC NEEDS.

    ABBY WE ARE DEALING WITH THE SOCIOECONOMIC CARD NOT THE RACE CARD.

    IT SO HAPPENS THAT WE BLAME THE WHITE MAN IN THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE MONEY. BUT ARE NOT MEXICANS OPPRESSING MEXICANS IN MEXICO BASED ON SOCIOECONOMICS.

    Posted by TOM at May 17, 2004 11:09 PM
    At least all that Mexican's had to cross was a river or a desert. We didn't have to cross a whole ocean like the rest of you and you call us the "wet backs" I think all of you are the wet backs, none of you are native to this coutry somewhere along the line your family had to have crossed that ocean. I've never heard of a Mexican cross an entire ocean.

    Posted by none of your business at May 17, 2004 11:57 PM
    Putting aside all the discussion about who was here first and who has greater claim to the lands comprising the United States, what does everyone want? I don't think anyone has made that clear yet. Mexican-Americans, realistically, what can be done to make all the wrongs right: greater awareness and deference of the history of Mexican-Americans in our schools, additional efforts to combat discrimination by law enforcement, opening the borders to all who seek entry, etc.? I am not trying to make light of this debate. I really want to hear some ideas so we can discuss potential solutions.

    P.S. Did anyone read that article by Steve Lopez in the LA Times on Sunday on illegal immigrants and Rohrabacher's legislation? I think that you can check it out at www.LAtimes.com/Lopez.

    Posted by abby at May 18, 2004 02:32 PM

  7. #7
    noneofyourbusiness in typical Mexican hypocritical fashion says:

    "At least all that Mexican's had to cross was a river or a desert. We didn't have to cross a whole ocean like the rest of you and you call us the "wet backs" I think all of you are the wet backs, none of you are native to this coutry somewhere along the line your family had to have crossed that ocean. I've never heard of a Mexican cross an entire ocean."

    Response: You have never heard of a Mexican crossing an entire ocean huh? Well, I didn't cross an entire ocean either, I was born here you dolt. My family have been in Southern California for longer than probably 85% of the Mexicans that are here now. You say that "some where along the line your family had to have crossed that ocean".

    Now listen, you thick, hypocritical wench. You say that Americans had ancestors that came from over an ocean, so we are all foreigners? Aren't you forgetting something? Yes, approximately 70% of Mexicans are at least partially of Spanish descent!! Get it you hypocritical beast? No? Well, it goes like this. You see Spain is in whats called Europe. Since 70% of Mexicans have Spanish blood, that means that 70% of Mexicans had, as you said an ancestor that "crossed that ocean".

    God Mexicans are hypocrites.

    WHY IS IT THAT NO MEXICANS HAVE YET ADDRESSED ANY OF THE 5 QUESTIONS I POSTED? A LITTLE TOO TOUGH TO ANSWER MAYBE?????

    FORGOT WHAT THEY WERE? LET ME POST THEM AGAIN:

    To any Mexican out there, I have a couple of questions:

    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico?

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages?

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc).

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks?

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?

    Posted by feckLuisSanchez at May 18, 2004 10:21 PM
    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico? NO

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages? YES

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc). US

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks? I DON'T KNOW

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US? US


    MY PARENTS CAME HERE FOR A BETTER FUTURE. AS ILLEGALS THEY LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM. I ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD GO BACK AND LIVE IN MEXICO AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD NOT BECAUSE THEY INVESTED TOO MUCH HERE AND ARE COMFORTABLE.

    Posted by TOM at May 18, 2004 11:36 PM
    Hey guys lets respect ourselves and each other. Don't be afraid of the unknown and love each other!

    Posted by las vegas at May 19, 2004 03:44 AM
    ****, this is getting more stupid everyday!!!! Why do we have to justify ourselves? Im sorry i got involved with this ****. But it is entertaining none the less. Jajajajaja. RAZA, GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS AND SUCCEED> EDUCATION IS THE KEY. INFILTRATE FROM THE TOP.

    Posted by changoman at May 19, 2004 04:06 AM
    feckluis sanchez or who ever the hell you are.
    If we don't speak up and defend our selves from racists and sellouts like you, you'll just keep on putting us down, discriminating and using us as scapegoats. So take those five questions and shove them where the sun don't shine you ****in
    sellout racist.

    Posted by friscomex at May 19, 2004 04:18 AM
    I am out of here. This is so stupid. I thought the purpose was to discuss immigration reform. I didn't know it was a dumping ground for people to let out all their complaints and gripes about discrimination, racism, etc. I DON'T THINK ANYONE HERE IS PREPARED TO ENGAGE IN A MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION ON IMMIGRATION POLICY AND REFORM.

    Posted by abby at May 19, 2004 12:27 PM
    I have read all this small bits of each and everyones mind and how they feel about this subject of the movie " A day without a Mexican".
    Its funny to see how many of this people are feeling like "illegals" are the enemy.. " oh they take jobs away" " oh they use our medical facilyties" all i have read is complain after complain. I havent hear no one giving a real good point on how or why the goverment keeps on letting "illegals" or so u called them like that, keep commin in. Tell me why doesnt the USA tell the cubans u know what u came here now u got to go back. Its different then since they are afraid of going back to cuba cuz they get killed. fine. i can understand that, and no im not hating on them, i say this cuz i have hear cubans come and talk bad about USA and they are born here and they are american. now u tell me what makes then n e better then illegals? Yes alot of people come here from Mexico. I did and i am not afraid of sayig i came as and illegal and i am trying to fix my status here. I do pay taxes. I follow the laws u have here in USA. I live in California and i see alot of people that are born here in USA, and they spend their time in a gang or doing some stupid **** with their lifes. How come American borns dont try and make somethign out them self. I tell u why cuz USA has made them weak. I have never seen an American in a sweat shot i havent seen an American clean a toilet. I havent seen and American do a day of work in the fiels strawberry picking i havent seen and American do manual lavor. I feel sorry for American borns talk bad about illegals and stuff with that issue. All u do is complain. Why dont u do something about it? Do something possitibe. Im not perfect i have been paying dues. I havent been in any gang related issues. I have focus my life in my education. But if u really think about it American came to this land and u didnt ask for it u took the land. Indians were here before you. Americans are in a way invating in their own land. I belive california and some other state as far as Texas was mexico and it still is. I stand that we can all come to a point where all can be happy we all need to do is communicate. Communication if the first step of resolving this proble is u think it is. All people that have come here i bet have never work out in the corn fiels and havent done n e hard work with their hands? maybe im wrong but the way u talk give me that point of view. If you feel like u want to get my attention and telling me something i am not scared to hear you out.. this is my email ( x_ecuti0ner_style@yahoo.com,) screen name over at yahoo. ( x_ecuti0ner_style ) aim ( roscografxs ) if u want to say something to me get at me in does ways. yall have a good day.

    Posted by Eric at May 20, 2004 12:38 AM
    Abby,
    I agree with you 100%. THis is nothing more than a chaotic circus act.

    Posted by changoman at May 20, 2004 01:50 AM
    The movie shows what happens when American citizens don't want to see a movie. This movie bombed at the box office. We are told that the economic force of illegal aliens is mighty. Yet when the American citizens demonstrate their economic choices, this movie didn't even make it into the top 50 movies when it opened. I'll never see it.

    Posted by Ann Olson at May 20, 2004 09:41 AM
    I feel more American then most Americans feel about themselves. I'm a Mexican. The very idea of freedom of speech and open discussion allows me the opportunity to make my ideas be heard. My life has been a great ride because I have been a Mexican student in Mexico and a Mexican student in the United States.
    I have been a university student and eventhough when my family came to the U.S. I didn't speak English, I got a double major: History and English. There is so much to learn out there, but we must first learn the language, get an education and I don't mean just a high school diploma I mean a university BA, MA, or PhD. Nobody has ever built their dream home from laboring in the fields or holding some menial job. So move out of the fields and relocate your self in a classroom where you or your children can begin to built your American Dream.
    There's plenty of dissention:STOP. Look around you. There are people out there who are feeding us all this garbage: racism & discrimination. We Mexicans should be more attentive to what is being published "Who Are We" by Samuel P. Huntington just out this week in hardback. Read it. This is my challange to all the Mexicans. Read the book first and the we can have a real discussion about Mexicans and Anglos.
    We don't need to justify ourselves to anyone. We are a proud people with a rich past. Let's build on that and make our children benefit from the struggle we are currently facing.
    Nativism is on the rise. All the people who are fooled by what is being discussed on the forum should really consider looking at the BIGGER picture. Are WE in it or Are WE the frame?

    Posted by Carlos Valtierra at May 20, 2004 10:45 AM
    I think this movie is giving Americans a great insight on what Mexicans, and even all latinos do. People can be so misguided. That bit about illegal aliens not paying taxes is bull****. Their papers may not be real, but they are still paying taxes under that name. And you know what? They don't see a dime of it back. Countless "illegal aliens" are in the United States Military, and when they are killed in action, the government refuses to help pay for thier funeral. How is it possible for them to be accepted to die for this country, but not to be accepted as a key role in America today? I am a legal U.S. citizen and a soldier in the Army. I am glad to serve this country, because it is the land of opportunity. It is also as it says, "The Land of the free and the home of the brave." It takes a hell of a lot for someone to sacrifice as much as those people who come trying to better themselves and their families than most people know. Please don't look down on us. We only want to be treated with kindness and respect, as would any other race. We may be different colors on the outside, but on the inside, we all bleed the same. I hope this movie shows our role in the way that it REALLY is, not the typical stereo-type.

    Posted by Jessica Rangel at May 20, 2004 12:41 PM
    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico? We'll never know my friend.

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages? No.

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc). Neither.

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks? Not that I know.

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?
    I would rather live in a place where people respect eachother. A place where I will not be discriminated or looked down on because of the color of my skin, my accent, my ethnicity, etc. Unfortunately that place does not exist!

    Posted by at May 20, 2004 02:27 PM
    anonymous writes:

    "1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico? We'll never know my friend."

    Response: Come on, just answer the question. Based on where the US is NOW and where Mexico is NOW, who do you think does a better job in guiding an economy? I know, many bleeding heart liberals and non-whites like to think that all wealth in the hands of whites was because of slave labor, etc etc etc. Hello!!!! Switzerland never had slaves. Sweden never had slaves. Canada never had slaves. Norway never had slaves..... Why are all of these countries successful???? Is some bleeding heart gonna come on here and say those countries got wealthy by "oppressing" non-whites? Yeah right! Mexico is a craphole because of it's culture and because of the character of it's people. Period!!! No excuses please. I love how Mexicans think that Mexico would be some wealthy, global powerhouse if they had just had the southwest US. Hahahaha. What a joke. Mexico would still be a craphole.

    "2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages? No."

    Response: You are ignorant then. I suggest you take an entry level course in economics. It is undeniable that an overabundance of workers drives down wages. Again, you are either ignorant, or in denial.


    "3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc). Neither."


    Response: Try again. Mexico jails and then deports illegals when they are caught. Yet Mexicans cry like stuck pigs when they illegally come to the US and are denied in state college tuition, drivers licenses, etc. I say we should be more like Mexico, and treat illegals the way Mexico does.


    "4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks? Not that I know."

    Response: They don't! Try doing some research before you spout off.

    "5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?
    I would rather live in a place where people respect eachother. A place where I will not be discriminated or looked down on because of the color of my skin, my accent, my ethnicity, etc. Unfortunately that place does not exist! "

    Response: Obviously, you are here now! If you don't like it, you are FREE to leave.

    Posted by feckLuisSanchez at May 20, 2004 09:15 PM
    ATT: FECKLUIS SANCHEZ
    here are some answers.
    1.The southwest wouldn't be better of if it was
    MEXICO. Because the Mexican government is so corrupt, they steal and they discriminate against
    poor Mexicans just like yourself.
    2.Yes it's true, but that's only because your beloved rich white man would rather pay an undocumented Mexican less money than pay a U.S. citizen more money so he can have more money. And don't forget the U.S.lets undocumented Mexicans
    cross the border to do the jobs people as yourself won't do. Who do you think is gonna pick the veggetables you eat, is it the white *** in the street corner or is it an educated racist like you gonna do it.
    3.The U.S. treats the undocumented better or they'll get sued, and remember the Mexican government is corrupt and racist like you. And
    don't compare the Mexican government with the average mexican or the culture, you probably don't know what culture is because you don't have one.
    4.Don't forget what I said about the Mexican government.And the only reason why there's affirmative action here is because racist pigs like yourself won't give non-white people equal opportunities.
    5.I rather live here because I grew up here,
    because all my family is here and some of it goes back to many generations and they fought for this country in the military so your ungrateful *** could be free.
    I also love this country because of it's diversity. And I do like white people because fortunately not all of them are like you.
    And yes the white man did benefit from slave labor or are you in denial. And don't compare Sweeden or Norway to the U.S., this is a much richer country and more powerful than those two combined.
    So next time you eat veggetables remember who picked them. And if you have so much hatred towards Mexicans why are you going by the name of feckluis sanchez are'nt you worried ignorant racists might confuse you with a Mexican even though not only Mexicans have spanish names.
    Or is it that your a coward and you don't wanna show your real name.
    So be afraid racist pig, be very afraid because Mexicans are here to stay and more and more are crossing the border right now and some are arriving legally. And we are coming up in this country. We're everywhere, maybe you should move to where there's no Mexicans like Norway or Sweeden.

    Posted by FRISCOMEX at May 21, 2004 02:30 AM
    ABBY

    IT IS SAD TO SEE THERE IS NO PROGRESS IN THIS DIALOGUE. WE HAVE TO MANY DOGMATIC PEOPLE. IF I DO NOT HERE ANY ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION OUT THERE I WILL HAVE TO DROP OUT AS WELL.

    I WOULD RATHER SPEND MY TIME WITH COMMON SENSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS RATHER THAN WASTE MY TIME WITH SO CALL EDUCATED INDIVIDUALS TRYING TO JUSTIFY THEIR RHETORIC.


    Posted by TOM at May 21, 2004 07:57 PM
    FECK IS NOT A RACIST AS SO MANY OF YOU CLAIM HIM TO BE. hE IS JUST ASKING SIMPLE QUESTIONS DEMANDING TO BE ANSWERED, BUT EVERYODY JUST GIVES THE DUDE BACK TALK AND WON'T EVEN ANSWER HIS QUESTIONS. THE ONLY REASON WHY THE US IS SUPERIOR TO MEXICO IS BECAUSE OF THE US CONSTITUTION. WHENEVER THERE IS INJUSTICE IN THIS COUNTRY, WRONGED PEOPLE ALWAYS TURN TO THE ENSHRINED WORDS OF THE CONSTITUTION WHICH EVENTUALLY MAKES US A FREER SOCIETY. MEXICO HAS NO SUCH DOCUMENT WHICH ALWAYS RESULTS IN THE OLIGARCHS CONTROLLING ALL ASPECTS OF MEXICAN LIFE. I AM APPALLED AT ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO SAY HOW ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE SUCH A BENEFIT TO OUR COUNTRY! THE MOVIE NEEDS TO POINT OUT HOW MUCH CHEAPER IT MIGHT BE TO LIVE IN CALI IF TAXPAYERS WEREN'T ALWAYS FORKING OUT TAX DOLLARS TO PAY FOR ALL OF THE SERVICES THAT THE ILLEGALS USE. THEY PAY VERY LITTLE, LET'S BE HONEST. THE LAWN PEOPLE GET PAID IN CASH. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THEY DECLARE THEIR WAGES? I'M TIRED OF AMERICANS OF MEXICAN DESCENT REFERRING TO THEMSELVES AS "MEXICANS". WE ARE AMERICANS WITH A MEXICAN IDENTITY, BUT SHOULDN'T BE LUMPED IN WITH THE ILLEGALS. WHENEVER THE IGNORANT WHITIES ASK "WHAT NATIONALITY ARE YOU?", WE SHOULD PROUDLY REFER TO OURSELVES AS "AMERICANS". THIS WOULD SURELY BAFFLE THEM AS THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS THE ONLY "TRUE" AMERICANS. BUT I FEEL THAT OUR DISCRIMINATED ANTECEDENTS PAID THE HIDEOUS PRICE FOR THE RIGHT TO BE CALLED AMERICANS, AND NOT CITIZENS OF THAT ****HOLE COUNTRY TO THE SOUTH, FOR IT IS DOOMED BY THE RACIST CRIOLLOS THAT RUN THE SHOW DOWN THERE. LET'S BE HONEST. IF YOU AS A 3RD,4TH OR 5TH GENERATION MEXICAN AMERICAN WERE TO GO LIVE THERE, DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT YOU WOULD BE ACCEPTED MUCH LESS REAP ALL OF THE FREE SERVICES THAT THE WETBACKS GET OVER HERE? BE THANKFUL THAT YOU LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY (RELATIVELY FREE AT LEAST) AND THAT WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS NO MATTER WHAT WHITEY THINKS. MOST OF ALL DEMAND TO BE CALLED "AMERICAN". THIS WILL DRIVE WHITIE CRAZY!

    Posted by ERIC at May 21, 2004 09:32 PM
    Ann Olson,
    this movie wasnt made to be a box office hit. It was made to make a point. Of course you wouldnt see it because you think its obsurd to picture a California without Mexicans. Right? The movie is just meant to put a thought in your head and make you wonder "What if?" I can almost guarantee that we wont see this happening in our lifetime but makes some people put things into perspective.


    Posted by Mary at May 23, 2004 04:48 PM
    Hello...mary i totally agree with u..this movie was made to make a point...however,i wish the point was little bit different...The whole point of this movie is to say "look how gringos really need us" and " stay there doing all these jobs" instead of something like " look mexican how hard workers you are, you can get educated and have a greater impact in this country"...I just did not like this movie because i feel like the message is stay in ur knees because they need us like this.....

    Posted by Lilian at May 23, 2004 08:38 PM
    ..AGAIN I SAY READ SOME HISTORY AND YOU WILL SEE
    THAT MEXICO GOT SOLD OUT TO EUROPEANS A LONG
    TIME AGO. IS MEXICO CORRUPT...YEAH...BUT LOOK WHO'S BEEN IN CHARGE FOR THE LAST 400 YEARS.
    IT WAS TAKEN OVER BY SPANIARDS, FRENCH, GERMANS,
    IRISH, BELGIANS, ITALIANS ETC.
    I HAVE BEEN TO THE COASTAL RESORT TOWNS AND CITIES ON BOTH SIDES AS WELL AS THE INTERIOR.
    THE LIVELYHOOD OF THE NATIVE MEXICAN IS LONG
    GONE...IT IS NOW HOTELS, DISCOS, CRUISE PORTS OF CALL,CHAIN STORES....CHAIN RESTAURANTS BLAH
    BLAH BLAH..MEXICO IS AS CORRUPT AS THOSE WHO
    CONTINUE TO INVADE IT.
    ...AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE
    REAL NATIVE..

    Posted by Flo at May 24, 2004 11:37 AM
    CONT:...NATIVE OF MEXICO

    Posted by Flo at May 24, 2004 11:39 AM
    Stop! This B.S. act like reasonable humans. We all need each other. The Mexican needs Whites. Whites Need the Mexican. Ok!!!!!!!!

    Can't you see it.

    Without them Mexicans would not be the same. Vice versa.

    This movie would not exist if it was not for Whites.

    And all of you stop talking about Capitalist Mexico, which was indeed created and is controlled by Europeans.

    Cancun and Puerto Vallarta are the worst of beaches.

    You know why?
    Because it is a tourist area.

    In Mexico tourists are never going to be treated good as Mexicans are. Why Because you tourist do not care about us.

    Thats why.


    If you cared a bit about the culture and at least tried to speak Spanish then you will be respected.

    **** its all logic.

    ..........Think...

    you know how many Cal Republicans I hear all the time saying the same **** !!!!!!!!!! Many.

    They can't think for some reason.

    Go to Veracruz or Yucatan if you want a real beach.


    And you know what before Europeans came indigenous people did not have so much hatred in their hearts.

    We did not even know about racism until the White man came to America.

    And you so called "Americans."

    Stop it.

    You aren't. and you know why because most of you have never have shown heart and love for this country or its brothers (Latin America and Canada).

    So you are not trully an American.

    Find another name for this country.

    You do not deserve the name American. OK.

    When you get to that point then call yourself an American.

    And Mexicans are more Americans than Whites technically speaking. We have been here longer and have fought longer for this continent[America]. More Mexicans have died for this land so please stop trying to put us down.

    we learned to be corrupt, racist, alcoholics, etc. from Europeans. So please stop putting yourself down and have some dignity.

    I barely was admitted at UC Berkeley. Because racists ****s always keep us down. And no its not that we do not try hard enough to make it in school.

    It's about U.S. Americans not giving us our rights as humans.

    We always are obtaining their scraps and a sub-standard education along with them.

    Most Mexicans and other Latinos although we compose about 40% of California are not treated accordingly.

    Mexicans in college are always look down in college.

    It ****s.

    We get racism out of college but in college we get even more.

    But I do not care the U.S. Constitution protects us.

    I love it.

    Looking at Mexico's natural resources. Yes, it can become a great succesful country. Latin America can be the greatest power but racist ****s always have to exploit us.

    Get out ****s and you will see great changes.

    Look at Argentina: perdomintaly White. It's the Latin American nation that is in the worst state currenlty.

    Why?

    Because wealthy ****s take everything.

    The U.S. and other European countries always abuse our beautiful nations.

    Taking all the wealth like the Spanish Conquistadores did back to Europe, figuratively speaking.


    If U.S. corporations live Latin America it will be just fine and better economically.

    The U.S. is like a Vampire, but instead of ****ing blood its ****ing oil like in the Middle East, esp, Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Stop it alright!!!!!!!!1

    We can barely hang and you coming in ****s us up even worst and thus we have to immigrate to your supposed owned nation "U.S."

    Mexicans migration is incresed once corporations invade.

    Read. Get Educated homies.

    Live in rural Mexico and you'll learn that being Mexican is actually being human. a peaceful happy one that is.

    We are one of the few nations in the world were people actually come and visit because they want to. Not because they need to in order to make enough money to survive. That is as Mexicans come to the U.S. to become economically superior but it turns out to many of us that we were better in Mexican or other Latin AMerican nations.

    We can speak Spanish, dance to banda, merengue, salsa, etc. in Latin America.

    Another thing do not try to say that Mexicans treat indegenous and other minorities bad because its not Mexicans its mostly the White ****s running the Government.


    Most Latin American governments were put there by the U.S.

    remember most Mexican Presidents went to Harvard.

    So they actually know how to run the nation but they are greedy like you.

    Individual.

    It was until I got to the U.S. that I learned to be an individual in my small pueblo in Mexico I was always treated as a real human being with love.

    This is the only nation that has all the hatred of the world fools.

    Think.

    Watch "Bowling for Columbine" maybe that will help you.

    Marry a Mexican and lets see how your people will react to your act.

    have brown kids with Spanish surnames then tell me what it means to be Mexican.

    More importantly ask your 1/2 Mexican kids.

    A Mexican is not only a Meztizo
    but also really someone who loves the culture and loves his brothers and sisters.

    Thats a true Mexican its all about human kindness fools.

    Live in rural Mexico without your credit cards or American money. Without your desk job. Work in the fields and then tell me how it feels to be liberated of those chains that these country keeps you in.

    I feel Mexican you'll say.


    I bet or "Human really"

    Mexico has Blacks and you know what we love our black brothers.

    Even my black friends have told me that Mexico is so much better. Why?

    Because they are not discriminated nor put down as much.

    Love your brother and thank your mother that you are here.

    peace and love to you all,

    and stop labeling people, we are one[humans] ok.

    Unless some of you ****s are animals. Very smart animals capable of typing and thinking and speaking, you know the rest.


    "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives."- Jackie Robinson


    Con amor y respeto,

    Luis E. Sanchez
    Uc Berkeley Undergrad for life
    "Unity creates Power"


    Posted by Luis E. Sanchez at May 25, 2004 04:35 AM

  8. #8
    Posted by Beth at May 8, 2004 10:58 AM
    I have been to Mexico several times. Yes there are some beautiful beaches. The problem is that you can't step 3 feet without being harrassed by someone trying to sell you some **** or begging for a handout. Why can't Mexico do something about that? Jeff must be a dumbass. Are you telling me that illegal immigrants are getting fake social security cards so that they can pay taxes?!? That is the craziest thing I ever heard. I say, send them all back. I am tired of this country reforming to please the minority. What ever happened to the majority rules? All of you that don't like my comments can kiss my white, American born, hairy ***.

    First thing I want to say about this statement above posted by Beth is that us mexicans, dont like "white, American born, hairy ***" ******, sorry, they are just not our type, so I doubt any desperate mexican would have harrassed you Beth, I really do. Next, you piece of **** cracker! let me just tell you, we might be considered a minority, but we are the majority you dumbass! Now, I'm a U.S. citizen, but that **** that you crackers say is just inhumane, mother*******. I'm doing a project on how the US is dealing with illegal immigration and I just happened to come across this website and find this cracker named Beth talking **** about mexcicans, I was like "oh, no she didn't!" So Beth, you can kiss your own white, fat, hairy *** cuz we are just not going to, **** you! Mexicans are the ****! Hell yah!

  9. #9
    'Punisher',

    The OP is copy-pasted from WWW.FAIRUS.ORG website ( belongs to organisation* founded by John Tanton - notorious immigrant hater with various links to Neo-Nazis).

    _______________________

    * organisation is called FAIR

  10. #10
    Oh... Mr Penetrator.. oops I mean Punisher

    Tell me something.. you just happened to find this thread while being new to the forum and searching topics right. This worthy thread from last year and just now decided to pull it up to answer... hmmmmmmmmmm


    What do you think folks... can we all say



    hmmmmmmmmm



    Penetrator.. Please dont start doing this c r a p again. We dont need x-ray vision glasses to see what is going on.

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