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Thread: Open Doors and Secure Borders

  1. #1
    Hi all.

    I have been following "Security Clearance/Name Check" thread. In my opinion the input by the three M's (Mus, Mo, and Mira) is very useful. I also share the same predicament as many that have replied in that thread.

    My name starts with Muhammed, I live in Pakistan, Applied for a B1/B2 visa at the Islamabad consulate. I was told that administrative processing is required which would take 3 to 4 weeks. This happened on the 1st of June. Today it's 25th October. I still have no word on what has happened to my Visa/Passport, and yes I did try to contact them No response at all.

    I have a few questions, Not about the legal procedures or connotations of security clearance name checks but rather about the objective of all this.

    1. In a country with utmost customer care, where you are bombarded with announcements of "Watch Your Step" while riding a train in Disney world, How can it happen that they show such utter complacency when dealing with foreign nationals who are not all terrorists, At the very least they can have a website where you can check your name check status.

    2. Secondly if your name generates a hit, what does that mean? if your surname, middle or last name matches a terrorist's name it does not indicate that you are related? No terrorist or his children would travel to the US with a passport that reveals his or her ident.

    3. Thirdly people whose travel plans get ruined, husbands who cant meet their wives, Children stuck off shore, relatives yearning to see their loved ones, what compensation do they get, if their name is cleared after a prolonged period of time (18 to 36 months)?

    4. The names on the database, whose names are these? Are these just the known terrorists, or criminals, or law offenders or terrorists in the making or presumed terrorists. If it's the later then how do they collect sufficient information on people to determine that they can or will commit a terrorist act?


    For starters that's some of the questions?

  2. #2
    Hi all.

    I have been following "Security Clearance/Name Check" thread. In my opinion the input by the three M's (Mus, Mo, and Mira) is very useful. I also share the same predicament as many that have replied in that thread.

    My name starts with Muhammed, I live in Pakistan, Applied for a B1/B2 visa at the Islamabad consulate. I was told that administrative processing is required which would take 3 to 4 weeks. This happened on the 1st of June. Today it's 25th October. I still have no word on what has happened to my Visa/Passport, and yes I did try to contact them No response at all.

    I have a few questions, Not about the legal procedures or connotations of security clearance name checks but rather about the objective of all this.

    1. In a country with utmost customer care, where you are bombarded with announcements of "Watch Your Step" while riding a train in Disney world, How can it happen that they show such utter complacency when dealing with foreign nationals who are not all terrorists, At the very least they can have a website where you can check your name check status.

    2. Secondly if your name generates a hit, what does that mean? if your surname, middle or last name matches a terrorist's name it does not indicate that you are related? No terrorist or his children would travel to the US with a passport that reveals his or her ident.

    3. Thirdly people whose travel plans get ruined, husbands who cant meet their wives, Children stuck off shore, relatives yearning to see their loved ones, what compensation do they get, if their name is cleared after a prolonged period of time (18 to 36 months)?

    4. The names on the database, whose names are these? Are these just the known terrorists, or criminals, or law offenders or terrorists in the making or presumed terrorists. If it's the later then how do they collect sufficient information on people to determine that they can or will commit a terrorist act?


    For starters that's some of the questions?

  3. #3
    So no one has answers here , silly me ! to register on such a site.

  4. #4
    Someone12
    Guest
    gosh <sniffle sniffle> let me get a Kleenex to dry up my tears <sniffle sniffle>...remember the events of Sept 11? Too bad if your visa isn't given to you at the speed of light....perhaps you should whine to allah, see if he can pony up a visa...

  5. #5
    Mr someone12

    At this point in time I will refrain from any comments on religion / caste or creed , Although I firmly believe that bigotry should be replied in kind.

    I just wanted to visit the beautiful United States and meet its people. Thank your lucky stars that I don't stereotype, there are loonies in every country who would give out derogatory remarks to any foreign visitors. I was naive in thinking that USA would have none, but by the looks of it there are exceptions every where.

    Yes I know what happened on September 11th, It was an awful incident, But one thing that you should remember is that "I WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT" and nor were the rest of the 2.2 billion Muslims around the world. Blaming us for that is a little paranoid , but telling you about paranoia would be like telling Jesus about Christianity.

    I sincerely hope that when I do visit USA I do not meet retards like you.

  6. #6
    Bet you didn't know Muhammad Atta travels with his real name don't you?

    For starter, how can we know for sure that you're really whom you said and not an Al-Qaida operative anyway? Last I checked, Bin Laden was hiding in the mountain of your border, and he has plenty of support among lots of Pakis (how many times have your own people try to assasinate Musharaf?). Many of young moslem man that went to Afghan for jihad return to recruit relatives or fellow clansmen or ppl from the same village for this so-called cause.
    So can you really blame the US govt for exercising the most extreme caution? Afterall they've already got 2 strikes so far in term of moslem terrorist attack in US soil. If you want to see stringent security really looks like, visit Israel and see it for your own eyes.

    And you expect someone to answer after throwing insults first? I guess you don't understand the concept of courtesy. This is a free board, noone here is obligated to provide you with any such answer.

  7. #7
    First of all its not "Moslem" its "Muslim"

    Muhammed Atta must have traveled with his original name but was he related to any al-qaeda operative YES/NO. If the same system would have been in place it probably would have cleared his name then also. The whole point being that the system is not that potent , It is just causing unnecessary delays in legitimate business and family travel.

    About Pakistan ...Humm where should I start, Its not a country that you perceive so wrongly, quoting from Saturday night live show..I quote "Pakistan is a country of a 140 million terrorists run by a sane and a great leader (Musharraf)"

    No , That's not true at all , Pakistan is an extremely diverse country. There are all kinds and sets of people in Pakistan As I have lived and worked abroad I am in a very good position to make a true comparison, I think there is nothing that I can't do in Pakistan that I could do in USA. There are private parties every Saturday; I can get the best liquor dropped off right at my doorstep. Se*, booze, and parties are as native to Pakistan as any where in the world. Yes I agree it happens behind closed doors but the majority of the educated people have this freedom if they so wish to exercise it.

    I wont disagree that there is a band of people whom, to some extent fit your definition of Pakistanis but they are like a drop in the ocean. They are the ones whom out of illiteracy, poverty, despair, and concocted socio-traditional laws would believe in any theory OR those who have been affected by the American foreign policy directly or indirectly.
    These are the people that you should look out for, not the educated, city dwelling, affluent Pakistani's , who admire USA's resilience in the path of prosperity, Who just want to visit America to meet friends and family or have a medical check up.

    In essence persecuting everyone and putting their names through the security check/ system ( which constitutes long delays) just because they are "Muslims", is defining the law too loosely, This would ultimately do more harm than good as it disillusions people who have great faith in USA system.

  8. #8
    For your record its not only "Muslims" that are subjected to the name check. Every visitors to USA undergoes the same security check system.

    And do you have significant reputable experience in counter-terrorism intelligence to say that the system does not work? Who knows how many terrorist has been denied entry since the system is put in place. Just because the govt doesn't release statistic or tout it every other days doesn't mean it doesn't work. Let me give you a little hint, the system not only checks your name for and treat it as your real name, it also compares it with the millions of different aliases than know terrorist has used in the past. Now you see the complexity of such tasks? Not only you checking whether Muhammad Yusuf Al-Kamal is not the Al-Kamal in the list of Al-Qaida operative, but whether he's really not Ahmed Ibrahim Al-Libi using one of his many alisases.
    Is it perfect? Most definitely NO. Could the system be improved? I pretty dang sure it can, and it undergoes continuous work to achieve that.

    And where's my so-called wrong perception of Pakistan? Most people in the world believes Bin-Laden is hiding in your mountaineous border. Are you disputing that many Pakis join ranks with the Taliban and Al-Qaida? Are you denying that Bin-Laden has achieved some sort of cult-hero status among many Pakis? Even your govt has strong ties with the Taliban before, whether via ISI or other non-indigenous means.

    If you're making the correlation between educated, city dweller are not the one to look out for, you'll be making a big mistakes. Afterall we can't just say all Pakis supporter of Bin-Laden are Pashtuns, just because they support and have strong ties with him and/or Taliban in the past.

  9. #9
    wow, usually i wouldnt respond like this but i had too. How could you possibly blame our government for protecting its people. there needs to be extensive investigations for any illegal that comes here. we cannot start handing out green cards to terrorists. did you forget about all the american lives lost as a result of 9-11. i am trying to get my husbands papers now, but i am not complaining about the process. if my husbands name gets a "hit", oh well. i guess we will see just how strong our mairrage is. just remember, the safety of the american people comes first. I feel bad for what you and your family are going through. but for someone who wants to become an american, you should understand.

  10. #10
    this would ultimately do more harm than good as it disillusions people who have great faith in USA system? The Americans once had great faith that we would not be attacked on our own soil. so keep your faith, but remember, we are only trying to protect ourselves.

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