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Thread: Lets hear it from both sides...

  1. #1
    Interesting BBC interview with both a former Gitmo National Guard member and ex-detainee:

    Judge halts 9/11 Guantanamo trial

    The other interview with Lieutenant Colonel Darrel Vandeveld on 'Why I quit Guantanamo' is also very interesting to watch.
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

  2. #2
    Interesting BBC interview with both a former Gitmo National Guard member and ex-detainee:

    Judge halts 9/11 Guantanamo trial

    The other interview with Lieutenant Colonel Darrel Vandeveld on 'Why I quit Guantanamo' is also very interesting to watch.
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

  3. #3
    More stolen valor, like Jesse MacBeth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009...ying-mental-patient/

    Any anti-war soldier story is usually fake. Just look at their photos and the way they wear their uniforms. It shows that they never served a day.

    Shame on you for promoting stolen valor.

  4. #4
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The second guy is a lawyer who is asking religious leaders for advice in how to prosecute terrorist suspects </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No he was asking for guidance on how to handle his conscience.
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

  5. #5
    But not if he or she feels what he or she is doing is wrong. Which is why he left and spoke out.
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brit4064:
    Interesting BBC interview with both a former Gitmo National Guard member and ex-detainee:

    Judge halts 9/11 Guantanamo trial

    The other interview with Lieutenant Colonel Darrel Vandeveld on 'Why I quit Guantanamo' is also very interesting to watch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Notice the ex soldier stated that no water boarding was there and the fact that President Obama appears to be upholding some of the Bush policies on the war on terror.

    Another note, this interview was more of a political advertisement than it was on the report on Gitmo. And it would be interesting to have a soldier from the same unit who served with Mr. Arendt share his view. If different, how quickly wold the argument go from a civil dispute to name calling.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

  7. #7
    That might be true but the fact that both were together at the same interview means they both shared roughly the same view, ie. Gitmo needs to be closed down.
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

  8. #8
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brit4064:
    That might be true but the fact that both were together at the same interview means they both shared roughly the same view, ie. Gitmo needs to be closed down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    They were both together because of a common political issue they agree on, no more, no less.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

  9. #9
    The reason is davdah, in the eyes of the rest of the world, Gitmo stands out as a symbol of everything that was wrong about the War on Terror. You can't keep 650 prisoners in jail without bringing charges or a trial and then claim you have the moral high ground.

    Yes I know they have had military trials but those are a bit different to a civil one. Bush wasn't going to allow them access to a lawyer even. That only happened when the high court ruled they had to be allowed access and had a right to defend themselves. How do you defend yourself when you have no access to a lawyer or the evidence against you? What happened to the Rule of Law hmmm?

    About 400 of those 650 prisoners have since been released to their home countries. If they were the hardened terrorists as Bush claimed, why release them?

    If they are terrorists, lets see it in open court. The Government doesn't have to reveal secret information on them necessarily, but it should make a convincing case. Not hiding behind secret military trials.

    As for the argument about justifying torture, we've been through this before. In my opinion, all you'll get is wrong information from those who were not involved and nothing from those who were involved. Why did they waterboard one prisoner 183 times? Did they not get the answer they wanted the other 182 times? If torture is so effective as you claim, it sure didn't work too well on him!
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

  10. #10
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brit4064:
    The reason is davdah, in the eyes of the rest of the world, Gitmo stands out as a symbol of everything that was wrong about the War on Terror. You can't keep 650 prisoners in jail without bringing charges or a trial and then claim you have the moral high ground.

    Yes I know they have had military trials but those are a bit different to a civil one. Bush wasn't going to allow them access to a lawyer even. That only happened when the high court ruled they had to be allowed access and had a right to defend themselves. How do you defend yourself when you have no access to a lawyer or the evidence against you? What happened to the Rule of Law hmmm?

    About 400 of those 650 prisoners have since been released to their home countries. If they were the hardened terrorists as Bush claimed, why release them?

    If they are terrorists, lets see it in open court. The Government doesn't have to reveal secret information on them necessarily, but it should make a convincing case. Not hiding behind secret military trials .

    As for the argument about justifying torture, we've been through this before. In my opinion, all you'll get is wrong information from those who were not involved and nothing from those who were involved. Why did they waterboard one prisoner 183 times? Did they not get the answer they wanted the other 182 times? If torture is so effective as you claim, it sure didn't work too well on him! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Brit,
    In these times, information on terrorists is generally gathered through clandestine operations that could be revealed in open court. And if they were, it puts operatives, even by not using torture or revealing photos, at more risk than you can imagine. It is why traditional courts have never been the optimal. However, what should have been done was use a systme more closely resembling to the WWII tribunals when unlawful combatants were tried. But I don't think that the people on BBC would even agree to that.

    What made Gitmo worse was the U.S. armed forces got caught in tribal retribution in Afghanistan and Iraq. That is what clouds whether Gitmo should be opened or closed.

    What you have is a catch 22. No governor wants the remaining detainees for fear of public pressure of allowing perceived violent individuals within the border (health issue) and a horde of human rights activists if the 15 Chinese detainees are returned to China and imprisoned there.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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