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Thread: Are illegals drain on social services or convenient scapegoats ?

  1. #1
    Two Cents on Illegal Immigration

    Jim Bacon comments :

    <span class="ev_code_RED">illegal immigration is a unavoidably a state/local problem when illegal immigrants apply for food stamps, seek medical care and attend overcrowded, fiscally stressed schools. These problems cannot be fobbed onto the federal government. The problems are inherently local, and they're real. </span>


    Do we hear that? Republicans. Arguing that people should be shooed off because they are adversely impacting our socialized safety net of food stamps, medical care, and public schools.

    Does anyone else see the problem here?

    Let's be brutally honest. The reason why these programs are failing isn't because of the impact of illegal immigration. They're failing because they are traditionally societal roles that are being hijacked by a government bent on stressing socialism rather than individualism.

    To fork over the failure of these institutions upon a convenient class of people isn't exactly what I would call just, though it certainly is a predictable repetition of history with respects to human nature.

    Setting aside the contradiction conservatives offer defending liberally-imposed social agendas, what we have here is an appeal to that old American fear of "the other". That when something doesn't go well, we find some group of people to blame. At first it was the British, then the French, then Indians, next the Irish, extending to Catholics, then to Slavs, then to African-Americans, and currently with anyone of Arab descent. History does indeed repeat.

    Now in an age where our open borders and socialized government system have been under threat, we are presented with illegal immigration. And it's not a stretch to say that when people speak of "illegal immigration," it's shorthand for Latin Americans crossing the Mexican border, and not grandma from the Ukraine stuffed into a duffle bag on the next Delta flight.

    Here is where the rubber meets the road. Conservativism in my mind (and a slight deviation from the definition Ken Cuccinelli gave this morning) operates on the principles of free markets, free people, and a free society. That comes with a price tag, starting with the rules necessary to make socieities free.

    If the concerns from the Howell bench stem from the impact illegal aliens have on our social programs, then what precisely is the problem then? As a conservative, I might suggest that the problem isn't so much the presence of illegal immigrants per se, but rather the presence of government, a presence conservatives are supposed to be fighting against.

    Seeing this, let's argue in hypotheticals. If the social programs these illegal aliens are supposedly straining to the breaking point ceased to exist tomorrow, would the opposition be so strong?

    Now one might argue yes, and I'll offer two generalized scenarios:

    (1) Yes Shaun, they should still be removed because they are here in the United States illegally.

    Then remove them, as is the federal governments responsibility to do so.

    (2) Yes Shaun, they should still be removed because they are filthy Mexicans.

    Then I say you're a racist, and deserve to be beaten to a d*amn pulp.

    So the argument boils down accordingly. The argument against illegal immigration is either (1) a decision policy makers in Washington - not Richmond - need to develop and enforce, or (2) one motivated purely on the fear of "the other" and based on race. Propping up decaying social programs and using illegal immigrants as the scapegoat is only making a bad situation terribly worse.
    ___________________________________

    [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

    One day it will have to be officially admitted that

  2. #2
    Two Cents on Illegal Immigration

    Jim Bacon comments :

    <span class="ev_code_RED">illegal immigration is a unavoidably a state/local problem when illegal immigrants apply for food stamps, seek medical care and attend overcrowded, fiscally stressed schools. These problems cannot be fobbed onto the federal government. The problems are inherently local, and they're real. </span>


    Do we hear that? Republicans. Arguing that people should be shooed off because they are adversely impacting our socialized safety net of food stamps, medical care, and public schools.

    Does anyone else see the problem here?

    Let's be brutally honest. The reason why these programs are failing isn't because of the impact of illegal immigration. They're failing because they are traditionally societal roles that are being hijacked by a government bent on stressing socialism rather than individualism.

    To fork over the failure of these institutions upon a convenient class of people isn't exactly what I would call just, though it certainly is a predictable repetition of history with respects to human nature.

    Setting aside the contradiction conservatives offer defending liberally-imposed social agendas, what we have here is an appeal to that old American fear of "the other". That when something doesn't go well, we find some group of people to blame. At first it was the British, then the French, then Indians, next the Irish, extending to Catholics, then to Slavs, then to African-Americans, and currently with anyone of Arab descent. History does indeed repeat.

    Now in an age where our open borders and socialized government system have been under threat, we are presented with illegal immigration. And it's not a stretch to say that when people speak of "illegal immigration," it's shorthand for Latin Americans crossing the Mexican border, and not grandma from the Ukraine stuffed into a duffle bag on the next Delta flight.

    Here is where the rubber meets the road. Conservativism in my mind (and a slight deviation from the definition Ken Cuccinelli gave this morning) operates on the principles of free markets, free people, and a free society. That comes with a price tag, starting with the rules necessary to make socieities free.

    If the concerns from the Howell bench stem from the impact illegal aliens have on our social programs, then what precisely is the problem then? As a conservative, I might suggest that the problem isn't so much the presence of illegal immigrants per se, but rather the presence of government, a presence conservatives are supposed to be fighting against.

    Seeing this, let's argue in hypotheticals. If the social programs these illegal aliens are supposedly straining to the breaking point ceased to exist tomorrow, would the opposition be so strong?

    Now one might argue yes, and I'll offer two generalized scenarios:

    (1) Yes Shaun, they should still be removed because they are here in the United States illegally.

    Then remove them, as is the federal governments responsibility to do so.

    (2) Yes Shaun, they should still be removed because they are filthy Mexicans.

    Then I say you're a racist, and deserve to be beaten to a d*amn pulp.

    So the argument boils down accordingly. The argument against illegal immigration is either (1) a decision policy makers in Washington - not Richmond - need to develop and enforce, or (2) one motivated purely on the fear of "the other" and based on race. Propping up decaying social programs and using illegal immigrants as the scapegoat is only making a bad situation terribly worse.
    ___________________________________

    [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

    One day it will have to be officially admitted that

  3. #3
    Any comments?
    ___________________________________

    [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

    One day it will have to be officially admitted that

  4. #4
    Someone12
    Guest
    illegals are a DRAIN and a disease on the US economy.

  5. #5
    Any comment related to the TOPIC is welcomed
    ___________________________________

    [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

    One day it will have to be officially admitted that

  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
    illegals are a DRAIN and a disease on the US economy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If illegals are a disease, than you too are a disease to them as well. What source do you have that gives you the right to comment? Even though everyone have the right of Free Speech. You are shut a ********!
    Try to put your self in their shoe. Than see how you feel about all of this. calling then=m dirtbag, than so are you!

  7. #7
    Someone12
    Guest
    I am an American citzen, a taxpayer, who is sick and tired of watching my $$$ go down the sewer supporting illegal aliens and their brats, listening to them and their equally braindead supporters whine about their "rights"-- sorry, they have NO right to even be in the US...and so far, not a single one has ever been able to challenge that fact!
    Ain't Freedom of Speech wonderful?

  8. #8
    Question of the thread is NOT "how would you feel in another's shoes",
    but the question IS:

    Are illegals drain on social services or convenient scapegoats ?

    ___________________________________

    [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

    One day it will have to be officially admitted that

  9. #9
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They're failing because they are traditionally societal roles that are being hijacked by a government bent on stressing socialism rather than individualism </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In a capitalist society in which 5% of the people own 95% of everything I am ALL FOR socialism.

    Until we live in a truly fair society in which EVERYONE can prosper and earn a decent wage and buy affordable health care I think the government should provide the poor with things they need.

    And some people just don't have the mental capacity to get into this nasty rat race in America and get one of those few high paying jobs to function and survive in society.

  10. #10
    I must reiterate the question, because apparently there are number of posters who come here 24/7/365 with the single purpose to distract and confuse readers.

    So, here is what needs to be figured out:

    Are illegals drain on social services or convenient scapegoats ?

    Read the copy-pasted article by Conservative Republican author, Shaun Kenney, and share your opinion on question asked.
    ___________________________________

    [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

    One day it will have to be officially admitted that

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