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Thread: NATIONAL ID CARD FOR US CITIZENS

  1. #1
    Guest
    New York Senator and former First Lady Hillary Clinton announced this week that she would support a national identification card for US citizens if other measures to keep illegals out of the country failed. Clinton said she would support it as part of an overall effort to improve national security.

    "Clearly, we have to make some tough decisions as a country," Clinton warned. "And one of them ought to be coming up with a much better entry and exit system so that if we're going to let people in for the work that otherwise would not be done, let's have a system that keeps track of them."

  2. #2
    Guest
    New York Senator and former First Lady Hillary Clinton announced this week that she would support a national identification card for US citizens if other measures to keep illegals out of the country failed. Clinton said she would support it as part of an overall effort to improve national security.

    "Clearly, we have to make some tough decisions as a country," Clinton warned. "And one of them ought to be coming up with a much better entry and exit system so that if we're going to let people in for the work that otherwise would not be done, let's have a system that keeps track of them."

  3. #3
    Guest
    This is really a good idea to issue some special IDs to USCs. People who have Green Card or EAD they can keep them in their pockets to show their legal status in the country. But people who are naturalized citizen have no such proof with them to carry. Just Drivers' License etc. which anybody can get.
    God Bless America.

  4. #4
    Guest
    ONE:IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. YOU JUST CAN'T STOP PEOPLE IN THE STREET AND ASK FOR THEIR ID'S. THE GUESTAPO DID THAT AND NO ONE LIKED IT.
    WHY: IT'S CALLED INVASION OF PRIVACY.

    HOW: ASSINING ID'S WOULD REQUIRE COLLECTING INFO ABOUT CITIZENS. FINE. THE PROBLEM IS: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THAT INFO FALLS IN THE WRONG HANDS? AND YOU KNOW IT WOULD :-)

  5. #5
    Guest
    I agree with Umesh - that's a perfect move to be made these days.

  6. #6
    Guest
    To Vortex:
    In America all information is public, you can get anybody's information through public records or through different private agencies.
    I am a Naturalized USC. If somebody asks me, what is my status, I have no proof at hand. I can to walk with my Naturalization Certificate or Passport all time every where. A person born in the United States can not walk with his Birth Certificate all time. Before law enforecement agencies only words are not sufficient, unless they check either public records (a time consuming process) or your ID.
    God Bless America.

  7. #7
    Guest
    Let's add status on the driver's licence. That will solve the problem.

  8. #8
    Guest
    Not everybody has a Driver's License and afford vehicles. Moreover, Driver's license is a State ID whereas that would be a countrywide ID like GC and EAD.
    Good luck.

  9. #9
    Guest
    Actually, many other countries have an ID card system in place. It really isn't all that ridiculous unless we have to renew them frequently (then of course it is a pain in the butt!) but it is basically like having a drivers license, except it is an id card. Practically speaking people could not be stopped all the time to check their ID cards or there would be huge protests... however they might be used for identification purposes rather than a drivers license... for example when you write a check, are stopped for speeding or other...

    So I really don't care if they issue these or not... it is as difficult as having a driver's license... however simulataneously I don't think it will do much about illegal immigration as those immigrants who have checking accounts or drive cars are either here legally or have some sort of documentation, whereas people who are here illegally, etc. are not in positions where they are asked for their identification cards on a regular basis.

    However, it might be helpful in identifying terrorists, assuming that the fingerprinting system becomes more cohesive, and fingerprinting is required when you obtain your ID card. If a person obtains an ID card with a fingerprint that matches another identity, that person can be idenified and possibly even tracked to some degree.

    If numbers other than social security numbers are issued, perhaps we could also use that number to reduce cases of identity theft, by offering that number as our common identification number to places like health insurance, identification at school, etc, and reserving the social security number for things more financially oriented areas.

    of course there are annoyances as well, first off the fingerprinting system is not in a condition where a system like this would be beneficial at this time, secondly we would have to have a card that would have to be renewed at certian intervals, and we would have to carry two cards with us (my husband has to carry about 5 cards with him for various reasons, and I can't even imagine trying to do that) and finally I don't know enough about this to know whether or not they are considering other areas such as security.

    And if the only idea is illegal immigration... well frankly it isn't going to help much

  10. #10
    Guest
    Many different national identification schemes (NIDS) have been proposed. A key feature in all of them is that people in a particular country would be required, or at least expected, to present an officially issued ID card in order to obtain particular services or pass security checkpoints. Traditionally, NIDS have been used or proposed for handling routine administrative transactions between government agencies and citizens, with benefits claimed in the areas of convenience, cost savings or fraud reduction. NIDS could combine the functions of a driver's license, social security registration, immigration documents, and other government-issued identification. Until recently, NIDS have not been suggested as a way to protect against terrorist attacks, partly because of inherent difficulties in achieving the required levels of security. Suddenly, in the wake of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, preventing terrorism is being touted as a possible use of NIDS.

    NIDS can either be mandatory or voluntary. In a mandatory scheme, everyone is required to carry and present a card when asked; not doing so is an offense. In a voluntary scheme, those who do not have a card will be subjected to additional background checks while those with a card can more easily obtain services or pass security checkpoints. There are at least two distinct processes in a functioning NIDS.

    First is a one-time registration process in which everyone is required to present themselves to the authorities along with their existing identification documentation, such as birth certificate or citizenship papers. If the authorities believe the documentation is valid, they create an individually identified entry in a database and issue the person a card which, in most systems, would be linked to this entry. In recently proposed schemes, this would be a "smart" card containing a micro-chip that stores and accesses information and possibly biometric data about the person, such as finger prints or retina scans. The second process is authentication. This occurs whenever the cardholder is required to show the card to verify his or her identity. A first check is made to ensure that the card actually belongs to the person presenting it. This is done by comparing the information on the card with the person, for example by visual comparison of the cardholder with the photograph on the card, or by digital comparison of a live finger scan with the finger print recorded on the card. If there is a satisfactory match, the card is used as a link to a database. A second check then determines whether there is anything on file that raises suspicion about the cardholder. If not, the person can proceed. There can also be a third process, data-matching. This occurs whenever authorities analyze and compare information in the NIDS databases to determine whether information about a person is present in more than one database, in order to augment what is known about that person.

    The overwhelming majority of the hijackers were in the US legally and had no record with the FBI or other security agency. In other words, they could have obtained a legitimate ID card and the authentication checks prior to boarding the plane would have not have revealed anything that would have aroused the suspicions of authorities. A NIDS offers no security against terrorists who have no record of prior misconduct and are not worried about being identified after the attack (possibly because they will be dead).

    Using biometric data such as fingerprints and retina scans can help in verifying that the card actually belongs to the cardholder. However, this is not 100% reliable. There is always a margin of variation between the original sample obtained during registration and any subsequent sample used at the point of authentication. To ensure that no one slips through by pretending to be the cardholder, the range of tolerance must be set so narrow that there will be significant numbers of people who will not appear to be legitimate cardholders when in fact they are.

    More fundamentally, however, biometric identification is just one step in the overall NIDS process. The security provided by the overall system is governed by its weakest link. The issuance of a high-security ID card is based on the presentation of low-security documents. Anyone with a convincing passport or birth certificate would be able to obtain an ID card. All biometrics help to do is to make sure that the cardholder is really the person identified by the card and, if they are checked against a central database, then biometrics can ensure that a person does not hold more than one card. However, biometric data cannot ensure that the information the person presents when obtaining the card is correct. This depends widely on the specifics of the system, but no system can ever be 100% secure. While smart cards are among the most secure technologies available, virtually all existing smart card systems have been compromised. Leading security experts point out that as more and more smart cards are put into operation, more and more people know how to break them. If the card is used to check the information against a central database, then the security of this database becomes crucial. It must be accessible nationwide in order to support security checkpoints all over the country. Therefore it will have to be on some network, probably the Internet or telephone system. The security necessary to prevent people from breaking into such a sensitive networked system would be nearly impossible to achieve. For this reason, a NIDS creates security risks that would otherwise not exist. Furthermore, if high-tech security cards can be compromised, it becomes impossible to distinguish a fake card from a legitimate one. A smart card system might be more difficult to forge, but if successful, forgeries would be perfect. Last but not least, a system as complex and comprehensive as a NIDS relies on the cooperation of a thousands of people, hundreds of organizations and dozens technologies. Each of these elements introduces a specific set of vulnerabilities. Securing the entire system against attacks and abuses will be close to impossible.

    NIDS would allow individuals to be easily tracked. However, knowing the identity of people will not prevent crime. If the identity of the person who will commit the next crime were known then prevention would be trivial: simply find the person and stop them from acting. However, since crime and acts of terror cannot be predicted, being able to track individuals will not increase security. A NIDS would make everyone vulnerable to the problem of incorrect data in the database. If the data on the card or in the database is incorrect, then innocent people will be victimized through no fault of their own. If other government databases are any indication, a system as large as a NIDS would contain a significant amount of incorrect data. NIDS, then, do not provide additional security against terrorism. With NIDS we compromise civil liberties without increasing security.

    Given that the systemic weakness of an NIDS are somewhat hidden, such a highly visible system might well produce a false sense of security. By relying on a security measure that is inadequate, we might end up compromising our security through a NIDS. Two groups have been pushing for NIDS for a long time and are now using the war against terrorism to advance their agenda. The law enforcement community would like a tool to make it easier to identify people on routine checks and to link their databases by using the national ID card as a unique identifier. This has little do with the fight against terrorism but a lot with expansion of police powers. Smart-card identification schemes have also been promoted by large information technology vendors. For them, a multi-billion system would be a great business opportunity. The most prominent promoters of the current wave of NIDS in the US have been Scott McNealy, CEO of Sun Microsystems, and Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle. Both have been peddling their company's products as the basis for the NIDS. While they offered their products for free, the ensuing service contracts would make their "gifts" highly profitable. Both of these groups stand to benefit from a NIDS even if it does not improve our security against terrorists. So far, failures of proposed smart card NIDS greatly exceed successful implementations.

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