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  • Bush immigration proposal

    Does anybody know when President Bush immigration proposal will be on the table in congress?
    how can we check on that? thank you

  • #2
    In the end, it probably won't matter because the Bush administration probably doesn't really plan on getting the proposal enacted this year.

    Given the controversy surrounding the issue, it is unclear that such legislation could even gain congressional approval.

    Although Senate Majority leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., has indicated that he will push for passage of the plan, congressional aides from both parties are privately dismissive of its chances given that it is an election year and the contentiousness a floor debate would engender.



    Real Cost of Bush's Immigration Plan Staggering
    By CHRISTIAN BOURGE
    Jan 12, 2004, 06:12
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    The massive cost of President Bush's proposed changes to the nation's immigration system is an important aspect of the debate over recognizing illegal workers that has been largely ignored in the debate over the proposal this week.
    The U.S. General Accounting Office released findings Thursday that show the federal agency that oversees immigration applications has a massive backlog and is inadequately funded to meet existing, much less increased demand.

    Although it is widely known that the Immigration and Naturalization Service long had problems processing immigration applications in a timely manner, when the agency was split up and application processing resources redirected into the Department of Homeland Security's Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, the problem was supposed to be addressed.

    Bush's proposal is aimed squarely at illegal aliens from Mexico working and living in the United States.

    It would allow existing illegal workers to apply for a three-year work visa that can be renewed to six years with the possibility to apply for permanent residency status. In addition, foreign workers will be able to apply for visas to take jobs in the United States that would be posted on a government-run database.

    The news that the CIS is having significant problems meeting demand is important because it underscores a major problem with Bush's proposed reforms beyond the debate over the efficacy of the plan.

    It remains unclear how the massive costs of implementation and monitoring will be paid for as the federal budget deficit promises to reach a record of more than half a trillion dollars in 2004.

    In a Jan. 5 letter to the top members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, GAO reports that from fiscal 2001 through 2003, the agency's operating costs exceeded the fees collected from applicants by almost $460 million.

    The GAO review of immigration application fees and processing was required by law under the Homeland Security Act of 2002.

    The audit agency also reports that CIA has not met the goal, set in March 2002, of a 6-month processing time for immigration applications and that the agency has no system to track the status of individual applications as they move through the process.

    CIS has not even performed an analysis of the steps needed to reduce processing times.

    But most important is the fact that despite a funding increase of $80 million annually starting in 2002, the number of pending applications had increased by 59 percent, or more than more than 2.3 million to around 6.2 million by Sept. 30, 2003, the end of the fiscal year.

    In addition, the full costs of the agency's operations cannot be determined because analyses of the costs to process incoming and pending applications as well as administrative and overhead costs have yet to be completed.

    Although Bush has proposed that immigration recognition include a fee and a penalty, this makes it impossible to see if those fees will cover the increased costs to the agency.

    Some critics contend the program would not result in a massive influx of applications from illegal workers or Mexicans seeking work north of their border, they can already, after all, get jobs here without paying a federal penalty.

    But imagine the problems an influx of new applications would create in a system incapable of handling the current flow of applications.

    The Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday that the federal budget deficit reached $126 billion in the first three months of fiscal 2004, placing the deficit on track to top $500 billion this year.

    This along with promises made by Bush this week to increase federal spending on education and promises by congressional Republicans for more tax breaks for industry, just how would a new immigration program fit into the mix?

    I surely don't know and I doubt the Bush administration's Office of Management and Budget or GOP political Svengali Karl Rove knows either and doubt at this point they really care.

    In the end, it probably won't matter because the Bush administration probably doesn't really plan on getting the proposal enacted this year.

    Given the controversy surrounding the issue, it is unclear that such legislation could even gain congressional approval.

    Although Senate Majority leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., has indicated that he will push for passage of the plan, congressional aides from both parties are privately dismissive of its chances given that it is an election year and the contentiousness a floor debate would engender.

    It is estimated that around 60 percent of the 8 million to 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States come from Mexico, making the issue very important to the Latino electorate.

    With the announcement coming as election year politicking goes into full swing, the Bush proposal is clearly an attempt to appeal to this demographic.

    They are seen as key to winning several top states like Arizona and Florida, both of which Bush barely won in 2000.

    However, there are some risks. Bush's move could alienate some in his conservative base who would be opposed to the idea and keep them home Election Day, but this is not likely if the plan fails to move forward.

    Even if the bill fails and does not give the White House the help it clearly hopes for with Hispanics, polls are already showing Bush performing well with Latinos.

    In a poll of 500 Hispanics conducted for the Pew Hispanic Center in early January and released Thursday, more than half of the Hispanic respondents said they think Bush is doing a good job with 37 percent indicating they would like to see the president re-elected.

    Bush received 35 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2000, compared to 62 percent for the Democratic candidate for president, Vice President Al Gore.

    Latinos traditionally skew Democratic in their voting, but only 47 percent of those polled said they would prefer a Democrat win the election. The margin of error in the polls was 4 percent.

    The capture of Saddam Hussein is seen as having given Bush a boost among Hispanics.

    In polls taken for Pew in early December, less than half of those polled said Bush was doing a good job with a fourth indicating they would vote for in him November.

    Whether Bush is successful in creating a new class of legal immigrant workers or not, so far the president seems already on the way to getting the votes he needs among this portion of the electorate.

    If Hispanics by his sincerity about implementing immigration reforms he can't pay for without taking budget moves that will likely plunging the country deeper into debt, then he surely will.

    Comment


    • #3
      Is that acelaw?? Aww shucks, I hate to admit it, but we all missed you lately.........uhh, on second thought.
      I thought maybe you got deported....

      Comment


      • #4
        We got word on the "Program "a week or so before it hit the news ,so we had work to do, plus getting house ready to sell . I am going to renounce my citizenship , benefits are better on the other side, no taxes, free medical, ETC... I will be back in L.A. in a couple months as a new illegal, got to get me some of those Ids so I can get three or four of them Social Security checks they are going to send south ,going to bankrupt an already bankrupt system .I'll deport myself by way of sailboat, if I have to live in a third world country it will be one of my choice and I sure won't pay 28% of my money in taxes for the privilege. I have to work a couple more years then I can take off to where ever I point the boat.
        Since I will be illegal I will fit right in down their in L.A. , thinking I might fire up a painting business to keep me out of trouble ,of course I will not need a contractors lic. now which is a lot of headache and money , I like this better all the time. I will give you a really "Special" deal on painting your house , I get to pick the color LOLOL

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey Acelaw ,

          Whats up friend? Haven't seen you in a while... Have you been busy with deportation of illegal? What do ya think about new plan of our Resp. President ? I though you would write something in that thread we were talking last.... Well I m glad to see you on this board...how have u been by the way?

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm with acelaw.

            I'm gonna max out my credit, then become an illegal -- get a new SSN, new identity and start living off the land with government benefits. Who needs to get up at 9am.

            -= nav =-

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah deport acelaw and moondin!

              Comment


              • #8
                Acelaw- Nothing like good garbage after a long break...

                Ditto to you moonie....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pasha,
                  Wow looks like you got a promotion when I was gone, did they put you on a poll and have you dully elected? I was really upset that I did not get the most votes to get booted off, I will strive to do better.



                  I was working the phones, setting up data base alerts for all our members to have the info on who to call on Bushes folly here on immigration, we hashed out this joke of Bushes, with some added stipulations thought it was a good deal ,LOLOLOL. No need to deport, they must leave after 6 years RIGHT and we know the upstanding law abiding folks they are ,they would do just that !!RIGHT?? This thing does not have a snow***** chance in H.E.@# of passing this year, it was pandering plain and simple. But we stood silent on the first of 7 amnesties, never again , every time they send up the trail balloon to see how many holes get shot in it , we are ready with the big guns. One of the stipulations was get the tracking program back on track and complete , then we have a method to find them and/or when they have any contact with any law enforcement here there name will come up if BICE is looking for them or who ever is wanting to talk with them, all branches of law , government etc..will have a centralized data base to work from.You will not be able to hide so easy as you can now, once you get the number (Soc. Sec) they can track you in a lot of ways ,plus guest worker tag(#) ,will be part of that too.. a lot of services you want you will have to show these and they will come up fraudulent quicker, still not 100% of what we need ,but we are making progress and of course spending billions .But there was not even a thought of amnesty as there never will been again for such a large group, maybe smaller AG adjustments but we have had enough of those boondoggles,we also realize that there is no such thing as a temporary program that did not in the end roll over and they become permanent, so the fight will go on for years here, but we are well heeled with money and the support of 80% of the USC...Have a nice day !!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Europe which imposed severe sanctions against illegal employment is AGING and thir unemployemnt is well above 7%.
                    US unemployment despite spending bilion of dollars in Iraq each month is only 5.7% as per DOL what is NOTHING.
                    Americans should give the last chance for illegals.
                    In every country there is an amnesty from time to time for somebody who has been living for a while not causing any problems.
                    In USA there should be such the law for senior illegal aliens to let them stay here. Not for the newcomers for for those senior ones.
                    There should be the way to change the status from illegal to legal.
                    Four days ago I was speeding in the school zone 45mph. The police trooper waived me points and the court and gave me just a 'dirty plates ticket' worth $47.
                    Americans forgive themselves their violations. Why not to forgive to illegal aliens?
                    Read the Bible!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      acelaw

                      "I was working the phones, setting up data base alerts for all our members to have the info on who to call on Bushes folly here on immigration,"

                      I find it amusing that in all your garbage, you still fail to realize that the talk going on in the White House isn't how to round anybody up, but to give them legal status! Whether it gets passed or not isn't really the point....what is important to note is that OUR president is looking to do something to legalize those here, not the other way around.


                      "we hashed out this joke of Bushs, with some added stipulations thought it was a good deal ,LOLOLOL."

                      Joke is on you dear friend. If it doesn't get passed, and there is no plan for deporation, status quo yet again.



                      "This thing does not have a snow***** chance in H.E.@# of passing this year, it was pandering plain and simple."

                      That may be the case, but it is a far cry from deporting anybody. And if it doesn't get passed, status quo!



                      "But we stood silent on the first of 7 amnesties, never again ,"

                      The last amnesty I can think of was in 1986, what are the other six??


                      "...every time they send up the trail balloon to see how many holes get shot in it , we are ready with the big guns."

                      Shoot down every proposal, that is ok!! But by doing so, and without Congress advocating massive deportations, nothing will get done. Just don't complain to me.....


                      "One of the stipulations was get the tracking program back on track and complete , then we have a method to find them and/or when they have any contact with any law enforcement here there name will come up if BICE is looking for them or who ever is wanting to talk with them,"

                      Now, doesn't that make more sense to legalize them then??

                      "....all branches of law , government etc..will have a centralized data base to work from.You will not be able to hide so easy as you can now,"

                      So, you are in favor of legalization now??


                      "But there was not even a thought of amnesty as there never will been again for such a large group,"

                      On the other hand, there isn't any talk of house-to-house raids and massive deporatations either....


                      "..maybe smaller AG adjustments but we(The Citizens) have had enough of those boondoggles,"

                      Cute.

                      In any case, the millions here will be here whether this gets passed or not. Fact. Moreove, more enter, overstay, drive, and go to school as we stand idly by and shoot down every solution. brilliant.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Promotion???? hahahahahaha....

                        Well if you thinking is true then good for you .... May be quite possible .... No argument... but you know this game is kinda mud ... once you go in it ... u cant get out from that...so kinda risky too....lets first survive next 6 yrs after passing this bill and we will see what happens ....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We did and how were we paid back for what no other country had EVER DONE and name me one now that does?, well we got 12 million plus more , that amnesty has cost the US native taxpayer 241 billion and still counting, read the full repot here I only posted the start, when does end, how many are on this board just waiting for another 245I?

                          http://www.cis.org/articles/1997/back197.htm

                          Summary

                          The federal government began legalizing almost three million illegal aliens 10 years ago, on May 5, 1987, wary of the fiscal liabilities of opening more public assistance programs to a population with high needs and low taxpaying power.

                          To ease the burden on the states, Washington closed some programs to the newly legalized for five years and reimbursed the states nearly $3.5 billion for some of their aid costs.

                          Was the concern of Congress, the White House, and many state and local leaders justified? A review of the evidence a decade later confirms that legalization indeed carried a high fiscal price tag ÷ a total 10-year cost of $78.7 billion ÷ with the indirect and downstream costs still accumulating. In the ten-year period ending in 1996, the amnestied population:

                          Accounted for an estimated $102.1 billion costs in current dollars in twenty federal, state, and local assistance programs and services.


                          Paid total taxes of $78 billion, for a ten-year fiscal deficit of $24 billion in the public assistance and services portion of the budget.

                          These are estimates of the direct costs only. There were, and will continue to be, significant indirect costs associated with the legalization of 2.7 million persons:

                          Job Displacement: About 1.66 million legalized workers, 70 percent of them unskilled, displaced an average of 187,000 citizen and settled immigrant workers from jobs each year. Costs of public assistance to those displaced totaled $9.9 billion for the decade.


                          Citizen Children: Women in the legalized population had an estimated 1.25 million U.S. citizen children between 1970 and 1996. Public education and three major public assistance programs to citizen children 18 and under amounted to $36.1 billion in the decade since amnesty.

                          School Costs of Undocumented Children: Remaining in the households of legalized population, or joining them subsequently were some 400,000 illegal immigrants by 1996, up from 177,000 in 1987. Costs of providing public schooling for them was $8.56 billion.


                          Five-Year Prospective Education Costs: Public education costs for U.S. citizen children of legalized aliens are projected to claim an additional $29.4 billion in the five years from 1997 to 2001, mostly from state and local budgets.


                          Total direct and associated indirect costs of the legalized population after taxes reached $78.7 billion in current dollars for the decade.

                          Large numbers of the legalized began to naturalize starting in 1995. According to the U.S. commission on Immigration Reform, 1.4 million spouses, children, and parents of amnestied aliens now on immigration waiting lists, will gain immediate entry as relatives of citizens. The costs of public education for the young people of this population and medical care and income support for the 900,000 aging parents is expected to be formidable.



                          Measuring the Fallout: The Cost of the IRCA Amnesty After 10 Years

                          The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 set the stage for the country's first and so far only experiment with offering amnesty to a mass population of illegal aliens. The paperwork ÷ the actual adjudication of more than three million applications for legalization began a decade ago, on May 5, 1987.

                          The choice of "Cinco de Mayo," an important Mexican holiday, as the starting date was a recognition that the amnesty would be a predominantly Latino affair. More than 85 percent of the 2.7 million ultimately legalized were from Latin American countries. Mexico and Central America alone supplied nearly 84 percent of all legalizations.

                          Fears of Red Ink Justified

                          What Lessons, If Any?

                          In ten years the United States has paid out $156.7 for the! direct and indirect costs of the legalized population, but has received a little more than half that back in taxes ÷ $78 billion. That figure would be substantially higher if expressed in 1996 dollars. The total fiscal deficit of $78.7 billion amounts to a government subsidy to each member of the 1987 legalized population of $29,148. A subsidy of that amount would have enabled most amnesty seekers to establish a farm or business and remain in their home countries.

                          Since the legalization, the pool of illegal immigrants in the country has continued to grow and now exceeds five million (now 13 million and growing) ; the INS estimates that 420,000 new long-term illegal aliens arrive each year. The churches remain the most outspoken interest group now demanding a new amnesty. So far Congress and the Executive have shown little warmth toward the idea. This new realism is encouraging.

                          In the debates leading up to the 1986 IRCA, a sizable minority in Congress opposed any amnesty until the border was under control. They were overridden. The results were that the amnesty gave legal status to some 300,000 to 400,000 who had entered the U.S. illegally and claimed it fraudulently.

                          With weak border controls, legalization itself became a magnet for additional family reunifications, some of them encouraged by the more secure legal status of the anchor immigrant. Others came, and still come, because they saw the amnesty as a precedent and were convinced that the United States will eventually do it again.

                          Measuring the Fallout: The Cost of the IRCA Amnesty After 10 Years

                          The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 set the stage for the country's first and so far only experiment with offering amnesty to a mass population of illegal aliens. The paperwork ÷ the actual adjudication of more than three million applications for legalization began a decade ago, on May 5, 1987.

                          The choice of "Cinco de Mayo," an important Mexican holiday, as the starting date was a recognition that the amnesty would be a predominantly Latino affair. More than 85 percent of the 2.7 million ultimately legalized were from Latin American countries. Mexico and Central America alone supplied nearly 84 percent of all legalizations.

                          Fears of Red Ink Justified

                          What Lessons, If Any?

                          In ten years the United States has paid out $156.7 for the! direct and indirect costs of the legalized population, but has received a little more than half that back in taxes ÷ $78 billion. That figure would be substantially higher if expressed in 1996 dollars. The total fiscal deficit of $78.7 billion amounts to a government subsidy to each member of the 1987 legalized population of $29,148. A subsidy of that amount would have enabled most amnesty seekers to establish a farm or business and remain in their home countries.

                          Since the legalization, the pool of illegal immigrants in the country has continued to grow and now exceeds five million (now 13 million and growing) ; the INS estimates that 420,000 new long-term illegal aliens arrive each year. The churches remain the most outspoken interest group now demanding a new amnesty. So far Congress and the Executive have shown little warmth toward the idea. This new realism is encouraging.

                          In the debates leading up to the 1986 IRCA, a sizable minority in Congress opposed any amnesty until the border was under control. They were overridden. The results were that the amnesty gave legal status to some 300,000 to 400,000 who had entered the U.S. illegally and claimed it fraudulently.

                          With weak border controls, legalization itself became a magnet for additional family reunifications, some of them encouraged by the more secure legal status of the anchor immigrant. Others came, and still come, because they saw the amnesty as a precedent and were convinced that the United States will eventually do it again.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Acelaw...

                            U r giving me headache right now... sorry but I am in a very good mood...and don't want to read that long post right now...may be I will get back to you sometime later today... I m not interested even a bit in knowing about problem with same points ... we all are well aware of this...talk about solution.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Acelaw,
                              In spite of all these data, people like Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico (and former energy secretary, still want illegal immigrants legalized, even though New Mexico has a high influx of illegals from across the boarder. Also including Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. Are they ignorant?

                              Comment

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