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  • Employer seeking advice

    There are two very skilled workers that are currently working for one of our competitors. They have expressed interest in leaving there and coming to work for us due to the fact that their current employer takes advantage of the fact that they are here illegally and pays them poorly and treats them badly. We have been working with them to apply for an employer sponsored visa, but ran into a snag because they all aply to immigrants who are here legally. We went to a lawyer and he spoke of a 245-10 clause that was similar to the 245(i) clause, I have searched all over the internet but have yet been able to find anything about that. So any advice anyone can give us for steps to sponser these guys would be great.
    And my second question is what should we do in the meantime? Should we pay them under the table until we can pay them legally? Should we pay them normally but use their ITIN as their SSN? Or should we use their current SSN (which is most likely false)? Any advice anyone can give us would be great.

  • #2
    There are two very skilled workers that are currently working for one of our competitors. They have expressed interest in leaving there and coming to work for us due to the fact that their current employer takes advantage of the fact that they are here illegally and pays them poorly and treats them badly. We have been working with them to apply for an employer sponsored visa, but ran into a snag because they all aply to immigrants who are here legally. We went to a lawyer and he spoke of a 245-10 clause that was similar to the 245(i) clause, I have searched all over the internet but have yet been able to find anything about that. So any advice anyone can give us for steps to sponser these guys would be great.
    And my second question is what should we do in the meantime? Should we pay them under the table until we can pay them legally? Should we pay them normally but use their ITIN as their SSN? Or should we use their current SSN (which is most likely false)? Any advice anyone can give us would be great.

    Comment


    • #3
      It is illegal for employers to employ a foreign national who is not authorized to work here. (Not all legal aliens may work either).

      Though, most of the time the aliens are the only ones punished for working illegally, employers can (and by law, should be) punished, too. You may see that this law may be enforced some day and it may be just the day you started employing people who are not authorized!

      Take for instance child employement laws; will you employ 11 yrs. old in your mine, just because you found a way around it?

      Comment


      • #4
        Although I appreciate your advise I don't quite relate your metaphor as being viable. If I was to use your "11 year old" metaphor I would have to put it in this context:
        There are 2 11 year old workers who currently work in a coal mine, both 11 year olds are supporting a wife and several children. I on the other hand would like them to work in an office where I will treat them right, and would like to help them gain legality in working here.
        And yes, I am fully aware of the fines and penalties involved, but I just can't stand to see them being treated like they are at their current employer. If you want to see maltreatment and abuse, just go there... it's terrible. And I want to get them out of there as soon as possible. But of-course, I don't want to break the law. So I am stuck with an impasse.

        Comment


        • #5
          Advise2 pretends to advise but actually is an anti-immigration redneck. please don't listen to him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Most Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays there is a chat with a lawyer, link is on left side of this page. You can submit questions 15 minutes before it starts. Also, HR 440 might be of help to you if it is passed. I don't know much about politics but it appears to me that it needs support from businesses as well as individuals. There are some links posted under the thread about 245i. I have always thought that there were not enough of us involved in letting our thoughts be known on issues, maybe now is the time to change that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for your positive feedback Still Learning. Yes, I actually started by going to the chat last Friday, but was basically dismissed by the lawyer as he didn't seem to know what 245(i) was and ignored my question about what to do in the meantime. So my next course of action was to post here and hope somebody was in a similar situation or knew someone who was. As for the 440, yes, I am very eager to hear about that and will be taking an active part in trying to see it come into affect. The downside to this is that it is still a year or so down the line, so again, I am faced with the legal, or the moral/productive dilemma (if they can be so easily divided)

              Comment


              • #8
                We are enjoying great success with this act, we key off the ITIN numbers reported and mis matched Soc numbers. Which are public info if you know how to get it. So please employ them as we will be seeing you sooner or later, have more targets then we can throw a stick at right now, BUT?????You might try following the law and hiring legal folks to fill your postions, it will only benfit this country, hiring illegals only helps tear it down.

                Immigration Policy

                At a time when America desperately needs an honest national dialogue about the crisis of illegal immigration, your recent "Perilous Passages" series [News, July 20 to July 23] lacked balance and perspective while it perpetuated many myths. Describing illegal aliens - which is the correct U.S. Department of Justice term - as "undocumented residents" does not contribute to an honest discussion.

                Today, with only 20 percent of illegal aliens employed in the agricultural sector, American workers - especially minorities, recently arrived legal immigrants and low-skilled Americans - are being displaced throughout our battered economy.

                While the majority of illegal aliens seek employment here, newly released data from the U.S. Department of Justice show that between fiscal years 1999 and 2002, the number of days criminal aliens spent in state and local jails shot up nationally by 45 percent. In New York State, the increase was 72 percent.

                Today, United States immigration policy is driven by greedy employers, narrow special-interest groups and lawlessness. Instead of rewarding lawbreakers and encouraging yet more illegal entry with another amnesty, it is time to enforce employer sanctions, seal our porous borders and allocate the resources needed for effective interior enforcement.

                THE RICO ACT

                FAIR IN ACTION: Landmark Lawsuit Filed Against Employer of Illegal Aliens
                On January 22, FAIR announced its financial and legal support for the first civil lawsuit ever filed under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) concerning the employment of illegal and non-work-authorized aliens. Colin Service Systems, Inc., of White Plains, New York, is targeted in the lawsuit for its alleged hiring of hundreds of illegal immigrants at low wages in order to obtain an unfair advantage over its competitors. The suit was filed in U.S. District Court, in Hartford, Connecticut.

                The plaintiff, Commercial Cleaning of Connecticut (CCC), is representing all competitors of Colin in the lawsuit. CCC and Colin are competitors in the office cleaning and janitorial services industry.

                Colin is charged with engaging in an illegal immigrant hiring scheme for several years to the detriment of all of its competitors, many of whom have lost contracts and customers to Colin, and in some cases, have even been driven out of business.

                The illegal immigrant hiring scheme by Colin has been so flagrant that the company was fined by the U.S. Justice Department for more than $1 MILLION -- the largest sanction for the hiring of illegal immigrants in American history. The Justice Department levied the fine for 150 violations of knowingly hiring undocumented aliens and continuing to employ aliens after their work authorization had expired. The company was also charged with 2,500 instances of failing to keep, properly complete, and update required I-9 employment verification documents.

                Colin, which typically employs approximately 4,000 employees, dismissed 2,500 of them as a result of the INS investigation. Five Colin managers faced criminal charges.

                The lawsuit is possible because of the extension of RICO in 1996 to certain immigration crimes. Its civil provisions allowed victims of crime, for the first time, to sue for money damages to compensate them for such illegal activities as mail fraud, extortion, kidnapping, and several others. RICO allows the plaintiff to seek treble damages for any loss of business.

                When Congress expanded RICO to cover certain immigration-related crimes in 1996, it sought to deter the repeated hiring of illegal aliens for employment (the law requires proof of least 10 hirings in a twelve-month period) as well as the use of false documents by illegal aliens.

                FAIR Executive Director Dan Stein hopes that this legal action will put the willful, repeat violators of employer sanctions on notice that there's a real price to be paid for using illegal labor. A successful suit will send a message throughout America that there are now serious risks to hiring illegal aliens.

                START SAVING YOUR MONEY TO PAY FINES AND CIVIL JUDGEMENT, WHICH WILL BE MASSIVE AND HOPEFULLY PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS ,IF YOU CAN'T FOLLOW THE LAWS, YOU DO NOT BELONG IN BUSINESS!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well Acelaw, if there were experienced American workers in this country that could do the profession that we require, then we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? You see, by sponsoring these "illegal" immigrants, and thus converting them to American citizens, I am thus promoting the American Economy, which if you haven't noticed, most of the American products come from other countries!
                  So let's add this all up:
                  1.) More Experienced workers in the American Work Force
                  2.) More American Products thus increasing the Economy
                  3.) Better lives for the Immigrants trying to become nationalized
                  4.) More quantity and quality of my companies products for you to purchase
                  5.) More money for my company because we would then have more workers and they would be more experienced then what we can currently find in this country.

                  You do the math Acelaw, but it seems to me that legalizing these immigrants is better for everyone, INCLUDING YOU, unless of-course you exist in state where the United States Economy doesn't affect you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Acelaw and advice2 are losers who have bacome anti-american. They do not know what america is about. One of the important principles to be american is to be supportive of free enterprice. ie pro-business. Corporations, the quintecencial of americal institutions, especially the small corporation strongly support immigration.

                    These idiot unamericans must be tried for anti-americanism - subversion of American ideals - and executed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      posted August 04, 2003 06:04 PM
                      Well Acelaw, if there were experienced American workers in this country that could do the profession that we require

                      Well now just what are the big requirements you need, I find it interesting that NO ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THIS JOB in the whole USA, WOW I am dying to hear this one? Whats wrong with employing legal immigrants ?All the reasons you post seem to lean to discrimination, isn't that what you all scream about? It looks as if you are practicing it???

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        AnEmployer don't bother with acelaw's obviously not very sympathetic advice!!
                        If you need a Lawyers advice I could give a phone number and she can help you out.The phone counsultation it is for free.This lawyer has very good reputation and she's been helping me out for quite a long time.
                        And every time you have a question you can call her and they don;t charge you.
                        Let me know if you're interested!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh yes Eli, I would appreciate that greatly. And I'm not too concerned with Acelaw and Advice2, they seem to be more interesting in creating unrest then actually solving any problems. So thanks in advance for the phone number and name. Once again, I really appreciate it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            AnEmployer,
                            Do you have an e-mail address where I could send you the information?
                            I just don't trust these acelaw and advice2.
                            Let me know,and will send it in minutes

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello AnEmployer,

                              Would you like to sponsor me for a GC?
                              I am 245-I grandfathered alien.
                              i could bring my contracts to your company in exchange for GC sponsorship. You could make on me approximatly between 20K-32k depending on my luck.

                              Dawid

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