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  • Free Healthcare Killing Off Patients

    No Brain Brit's free healthcare is killing 133k people a year by deliberately witholding treatment.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st_read_module

  • #2
    Bad luck fedNUT. SCOTUS rules Obamacare Constitutional. Next stop Universal Healthcare for all :-)
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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    • #3
      Next stop, outsourcing jobs and higher unemployment since we now have a new TAX. Great idea, tax our way to prosperity.
      This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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      • #4
        Yes it's a really great idea to have healthcare extended to another 30 million people who previously didn't have it. A great idea that pre-existing conditions are a thing of the past, that kids remain on their parents policies until 26 and that lifetime caps on insurance have gone. It's called bringing America in line with the rest of the World. The richest nation on earth able to cover all of it's own citizens instead of those who have ability to pay. A novel concept I know. Other countries have done it without the sky falling in...so can we...and we will!
        "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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        • #5
          Have you read what the costs are going to be? I bet not. You're not concerned about it because you think someone else is going to pay your way.

          Here are a but a couple important anecdotal items to consider. The requirement is to businesses with 50 or more employees. Within them, the employee or employer, will have to pay a fine of 250+ the first year, 700 or so the second year and over 2000 the third if insurance is not purchased. That's per person. There are a lot of businesses that are close to that threshold and many of them employ people at lower wages. It comprises a large segment of what's left of the manufacturing base in this country. If that employee making 10.00 an hour is forced to buy insurance at the prevailing rate, sure to escalate shortly, what's the sense of having a job? It's either that or pay 2000+ each year. Who does that help? What do you expect companies to do who are close to the magic number? They won't hire or will turn their staff to part time. Or worse, just send the jobs overseas as detroit has done.

          The rest of the world doesn't have the quality of care we do. Now we're going to lower our standard and it will introduce another phenomenon that's unavoidable. In the past, we essentially subsidized a large portion of the rest of the world by providing a free market which absorbed the costs of underpriced medicine being sold elsewhere. See the movie sicko for a good example. Remember the inhaler for 50 cents in Cuba as compared to $50.00 here? That's because Cuba set price controls knowing the manufacturer would have to pass the losses on to us here. Are we going to permit that to continue or is the government going to force the rest of the world to pay their share instead of stiffing us? There are no price controls in the bill. So, it will continue but on a more personal level where you'll feel it directly in your paycheck, or lack of one.

          If you think any company is just going to bend over and take it, you're sadly mistaken. The jobs are going to leave at a quicker pace than they already are. We can't compete with the likes of China when our labour rates exceed theirs by a factor of 10 or more. It was bad before but now is made worse. I guarantee you foreign competitors are cheering this since it just lowered our ability to measure up dollar for dollar. Europe is still in the cr-apper and it's getting worse. It's all because of this socialist nonsense. You can't offer free stuff and expect the price to vaporize into thin air. Eventually the bill has to be paid and you can't demand everyone making 250k to pay it. What's the sense of making that money if you aren't going to benefit from it? It will be over used, over priced, and eventually bakrupt who it's intended to help. You can't eat your obama care card. That's what you'll be left with. Assuming of course you can pay the government mandated premium. If you can't, you get fined. Stupid is as stupid does applies here.
          This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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          • #6
            Then the simple answer is Universal Healthcare. Pay taxes while working and get the healthcare you need regardless of if you work or not. Takes all the insurance requirements away from businesses. Tying healthcare to businesses is a dumb idea from the start. That is true freedom of choice. We've been over this time and time again. For-profit only healthcare fails to deliver for all affordably. Fact. Proven over the past couple of decades. 87% increase in average premiums over a 10 year period. It can't. It never will without some form of subsidy. The US is almost alone in the modern world that doesn't have a form of healthcare that covers all or nearly all. That is a disgrace IMO.
            Last edited by Brit4064; 06-28-2012, 08:50 PM.
            "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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            • #7
              It's only failure was permitting us to absorb the losses caused by socialist price controls throughout the rest of the world. If it is such a good idea, why is the Euro about to collapse?

              It's in every country over there along with a lot of other do gooder free lunch programs that have destroyed the entire continent. Socialism fails. It doesn't work because no one is going to work their tail off so others can get something without paying for it. Russia exemplified the result and Europe is falling into the same abyss. This cowering to idiotic demands from a bunch of limp wristed voters who think they are entitled is ruining the country.

              Get the costs under control by opening up more medical schools. Ditch the bloated government bureaucracy. Force the reversal of price controls in other countries or hit them with mega terrifs. Do away with the litigation for profit. If anything should have price controls it should be attorneys. Make it cheaper and there won't be an issue of who's going to pay for it because everyone will be able to afford it.

              Don't bring up the BS about medical profit. The amount of margin in most pharmicuticals is quite small once you factor in all the costs getting something to market. Then, you have the chinese and russians stealing our technology and snaking in all the profits. We should ban trade with both countries until they demonstrate a meaningful crackdown on the amount of fraud permeating those countries. A lot of it is directly sponsored by the governments themselves.

              Pay for what you get and snuff out the thieves. The costs will come back in line real quick. There is no logical reason why insurance costs should be hovering in the thousands for a single family each month. That's insanity and it's not because the carriers are so full of profit. Far from it. You think by putting everyone on a plan it will fix anything? Not a chance. It's going to get a lot worse now that it's mandated.
              This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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              • #8
                The Euro isn't about to collapse. Socialism works. We have it here in the USA under many guises. The sky is falling in *yawn*
                "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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                • #9
                  That nasty evil socialism is at work in CO as we speak fighting wildfires...oh but some conservatives are trying their best to blame Obama for it however as the Democratic CO Governor puts it"Were these the same conservatives that were so worried about the Obama administration spending too much money, or were these different conservatives?”

                  Still want to pay a private company to protect your property from a wildfire davdah because you believe private always does it better?

                  http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...air_tanker.php

                  And that "Euro collapse" thing? Nope...

                  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-collapse.html
                  Last edited by Brit4064; 06-29-2012, 08:31 AM.
                  "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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                  • #10
                    The government has an obligation to do what the constitution actually says it's supposed to. No where does it say you're guaranteed a doctor's visit or unemployment check. The burden of self preservation is being shifted to one authority versus the individual it should apply to. Of course we should have police and fire. Those are societal elements requiring an amount of authority and continuity best served by a centralized government provided the intentions are kept within the scope of the defined result. But to rope in your individual employment and lively hood making it a governmental obligation crosses the line and will absolutely impede on individual liberty.

                    The Euro is falling apart. Every other week we're notified of it's teetering stance through disclosures of a participating country's near guaranteed financial demise. The other weeks are devoted to hiding it with reported meetings and agreements which once scrutinized amount to reshuffling the debt obligations. The money is owed and it's not being paid back. That's the bottom line. There was too much borrowed because of entitlements everyone demanded and refused to repay. Those haven't diminished. The collapse is all but a forgone conclusion. Your article uses two of the few countries with some residual common sense to bolster its opinion, Sweden and Finland. It failed to mention Finland demanded collateral from Greece during the last sovereign popper parade begging for handouts. Why not show Greece, Italy, or Spain? Do that and an entirely different picture would result.
                    This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by davdah View Post
                      But to rope in your individual employment and lively hood making it a governmental obligation crosses the line and will absolutely impede on individual liberty.
                      I'm a -deleted by BoardWizard- redneck Republican and I don't need health insurance so why should I be forced to pay for it? That is the Tea Party argument. So what happens when you do get sick? Go to a doctor and pay full price or go to the ER and have it done for free while letting everybody else pay for your -deleted by BoardWizard- mistake? Show me one person who will never need professional healthcare of any kind throughout his or her lifetime and then I'll agree with you. Until the Tea Party argument is rubbish.
                      Last edited by Brit4064; 06-29-2012, 02:10 PM.
                      "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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                      • #12
                        I'm an exponentially more stupid liberal. I think we should all share the cost. Or better yet, make them repugs pay my bills. They owe me. For what, I dunno, but they owe it to me. How that makes it cheaper is for obama to know and you to just have faith in.

                        It will be used more because everyone will want to get their fair share. Costs will rise since now it's required minus any demand/price controls moderating the expense. With it being mandated the entire medical community will be under no pressure to provide a level of care subjected to consumer preference. Take it or leave it with a sprinkle of arrogance will become the prevalent attitude just as it is with any government controlled enterprise.

                        Once this begins, just as it did with Social Security and medicare, the true costs will be far greater than anticipated. Although they are trying to factor it in with a tripling of fees over the first three years, I doubt even that will account for the surprises in bloat, fraud, and abuse surely to follow. Just what we need. Medicine is already complicated but the government decided to bring it under its control and add even more bureaucracy.
                        This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                        • #13
                          Marco Rubio's defense of Romneycare "At least you can flee it!"

                          "Romney supported it on the state level. Which means if you didn't like it in Massachusetts, you could move to another state," Rubio said on Bloomberg Television. "What are people supposed to do? Leave the United States now because of Barack Obama's brilliant idea to stick the IRS on millions of people? More importantly, the state of Massachusetts doesn't have the IRS."

                          Well MA does have its own version of the IRS and not everybody will have to pay the tax penalty. But those little details pass right on by Rubio, the Latino Republican's answer to Dan Quayle. Keep talking Rubio! Oh yeah, everybody could flee the USA to avoid paying that nasty mandated Romney/Obamacare tax. Yes I can just see the millions leaving en masse LMAO

                          http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/06...n-flee-it.html
                          Last edited by Brit4064; 06-29-2012, 07:27 PM.
                          "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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                          • #14
                            Here's a shocker. Romney is no more a Republican by definition than obama. Implementing a socialist program on the scale he has is about as contrarian as it gets. Here's another news flash. Guess which state has the highest cost for medical care? One guess. Why is that? Could it be based on what I stated earlier. It most certainly is. Multiply that times 50. Yes obama, there are only 50 states, not 54. And no Romney, making ti free doesn't make it free. It's mind-boggling the level of stupidity these politicians have.

                            This is exactly the same sort of thinking that caused the housing crisis. Instead of attacking the price, they lowered the acquisition bar regardless the cost. Price goes through the roof. Spreading it around does nothing because the people on the bottom still don't pay anything or so little it's irrelevant to what they spend. The top tier is over taxed and unable to carry the entire load without facing ruin. What do they do? The lion share is deferred because no one can pay it. It's what put the EU in the spot it's in. They owe so much for what was essentially wasted that no one can pay it and all they're doing now is trying to reshuffle the financial deck by transferring liability back and forth between the public and private sector in order to delay the eventual calling of the loan.
                            This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                            • #15
                              The health care is not going to be free except for people on Medicaid. I say let's give it a chance. If the plan helps at all to curb what health professionals charge, that's a step in the right direction. What now needs to be addressed is the grounds for filing malpractice suits. They are rampant and out of control and a big reason why the cost of health care is so high.

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