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  • Sanctuary Cities?

    This puts lie to the claim by many on ILW that there is no such thing as sanctuary cities.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...03/26/BAN216NNQO.DTL

  • #2
    This puts lie to the claim by many on ILW that there is no such thing as sanctuary cities.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...03/26/BAN216NNQO.DTL

    Comment


    • #3
      Not sure who on ilw claimed sanctuary cities don't exist, but I don't think it's of utmost concern right now. Our economy is in jeopardy and we need to fix it first and worry about minor things later. Illegal immigrants are the least of our concerns right now.

      Comment


      • #4
        See the following:

        http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

        and

        http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

        That is an old and not very clever debating strategy. Ignore the facts and claim to move beyond the issue.

        Let us just address the facts here and the fact is ILW supports denying that sanctuary cities even exist, while at the same time supporting sanctuary cities.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry ProudUSC I like you and have no personal grudge against immigrants.

          However I do have strong opinions about the illegals who are:
          1. free health care
          2. College assistance
          3. have great rights to privacy and protection then USC,

          I could go on and but you see the point.

          Criminals regardless of USC born or naturlaized, legal immigrants, and illegals all have to obide by the laws.

          Without laws we become much like the 3rd world countries they are trying to flee from.

          Were almost there now.

          Furthermore it does harm those who have played by the rules to enter legally when those who enter illegally place such burden on our government to detect fraud.

          I'd like to see the U.S. remain a safe lawful place for everyone, including immigrants who wish to come here and contribute to our nation.

          But we must put a stop to those who are robbing us blind, rob, cheat, steal, break our laws and expect to be granted some waiver.

          Are such waivers available to USC? Man/Woman goes to jail short of a pardon from the governor if it is a state crime or a pardon from the President if Federal they don't have waivers and thousands of free organizations to assist them.

          Again I realize that immigration law is complex and I'm only starting to learn myself. So continue to assist those who have made innocnet mistakes becuase that is easy to do.

          But do know that all are not innocent mistakes, many are well calculate risks, cleverly planned actions of deceit and we as a nation must find a way to weed them out.

          Comment


          • #6
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robin Horton:
            Sorry ProudUSC I like you and have no personal grudge against immigrants.

            However I do have strong opinions about the illegals who are:
            1. free health care
            2. College assistance
            3. have great rights to privacy and protection then USC,

            I could go on and but you see the point.

            Criminals regardless of USC born or naturlaized, legal immigrants, and illegals all have to obide by the laws.

            Without laws we become much like the 3rd world countries they are trying to flee from.

            Were almost there now.

            Furthermore it does harm those who have played by the rules to enter legally when those who enter illegally place such burden on our government to detect fraud.

            I'd like to see the U.S. remain a safe lawful place for everyone, including immigrants who wish to come here and contribute to our nation.

            But we must put a stop to those who are robbing us blind, rob, cheat, steal, break our laws and expect to be granted some waiver.

            Are such waivers available to USC? Man/Woman goes to jail short of a pardon from the governor if it is a state crime or a pardon from the President if Federal they don't have waivers and thousands of free organizations to assist them.

            Again I realize that immigration law is complex and I'm only starting to learn myself. So continue to assist those who have made innocnet mistakes becuase that is easy to do.

            But do know that all are not innocent mistakes, many are well calculate risks, cleverly planned actions of deceit and we as a nation must find a way to weed them out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            I don't try to help people who are trying to bypass our laws either, Robin. But, I do give immigrants a break and try to see all sides before I make a determination whether or not I think they scammed their way into the country.

            As far as obtaining free health care, college assistance and greater rights to privacy, that is not true. Immigrants' Amercian born children are afforded these privileges, not illegal immigrants.

            I do agree regarding criminals. I would be more than happy to see all criminals, without regard to status, deported from this country. I have no use for any of them, nor any sympathy for their well being.

            I enjoy helping people with legitimate immigraton questions.

            I guess I don't live close to a Sancturary City and maybe don't understand like I should.

            Comment


            • #7
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by federale86:
              See the following:

              http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

              and

              http://www.ilw.com/search/docu...&req=santuary+cities

              That is an old and not very clever debating strategy. Ignore the facts and claim to move beyond the issue.

              Let us just address the facts here and the fact is ILW supports denying that sanctuary cities even exist, while at the same time supporting sanctuary cities. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
              Your links did not prove one thing federale. You cited one, count one, blog post in a search that yielded none on posters here.

              The term sanctuary city is a term used by anti immigrant groups to incite fear and hatred. And those same groups use a very broad term for illegal, which applied would also include about 95% of the US born citizens.
              "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

              Comment


              • #8
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robin Horton:
                Sorry ProudUSC I like you and have no personal grudge against immigrants.

                However I do have strong opinions about the illegals who are:
                1. free health care
                2. College assistance
                3. have great rights to privacy and protection then USC,

                I could go on and but you see the point.

                Criminals regardless of USC born or naturlaized, legal immigrants, and illegals all have to obide by the laws.

                Without laws we become much like the 3rd world countries they are trying to flee from.

                Were almost there now.

                Furthermore it does harm those who have played by the rules to enter legally when those who enter illegally place such burden on our government to detect fraud.

                I'd like to see the U.S. remain a safe lawful place for everyone, including immigrants who wish to come here and contribute to our nation.

                But we must put a stop to those who are robbing us blind, rob, cheat, steal, break our laws and expect to be granted some waiver.

                Are such waivers available to USC? Man/Woman goes to jail short of a pardon from the governor if it is a state crime or a pardon from the President if Federal they don't have waivers and thousands of free organizations to assist them.

                Again I realize that immigration law is complex and I'm only starting to learn myself. So continue to assist those who have made innocnet mistakes becuase that is easy to do.

                But do know that all are not innocent mistakes, many are well calculate risks, cleverly planned actions of deceit and we as a nation must find a way to weed them out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                Ms. Horton,
                You need to stop generalizing about "illegals." for starters, illegal aliens generally do not receive free medical care. They are allowed however, access to emergency room services, but are still charged. In fact, Phyler vs Doe, a US Supreme Court ruling, stipulates what can and cannot be used for immigration status for such services as education, housing, or other services unless specified by law. Generally, illegal aliens do not receive free medical care, but their U.S.C. children do. Are they illegal? or are the parent?

                As for USC, most do obey the laws, like most immigrants; however, immigrants have a higher threshold to pass before becoming citizens. For most USC, they cannot pass the citizenship test, much less the process for the N-400 because they have a DUI or two, maybe not dotted all the "i's" or cross all the "t's."

                Finally, the law. There is a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Following the letter of the law is what Germany did in 1930's and 40's. In fact, most of the henchman used that excuse when they executed millions of eastern Europeans, Jews, and other "undesireables" that the Nazi party wanted. Is that the same thing you want for the U.S. Ms. Horton?
                "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                Comment


                • #9
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That comment you made about USC's not obeying the law is beyond offensive. Where do you get off saying something so slanderous? If the majority of people did not obey the law this country would be no better than any other 3rd world cesspool. Which is what makes this country what it is. We have rules that are followed. Which gives rise to everything else. And no. Most USC's do not have even one DUI let alone two. Are these idiotic comments personal reflection? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                  1. I said illegals were charged for their services Davdah, You really need to reread the post again. What I did not say is whether illegals are more financial responsible for their medical bills than USC. there is no clear evidence of that, one way or ther other. However, one of the biggest reasons to file bankruptcy is because of unpaid medical bills. You might want to think about that Davdah.

                  2. The point was the higher threshold that immigrants have to pass to obtain citizenship. Having a DUI or even two DUI's will not prohibit most USC's in obtaining work or other benefits, but it does for immigrants. That was the point Davdah.
                  \
                  Note: 70% of high school students fail to pass civics in a recent study. In another study, more than half of USC adults failed to pass civic questions.
                  "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Your comment concerning bankruptcy proves my point. When was the last time an illegal filed bankruptcy? Most Americans, the real ones that is, do make an effort to be honest. Which is why some get themselves into financial predicaments. At least they try to cover their costs. Your average kangaroo with a BJ visa (border jumper) does not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                    Davdah,
                    Think about your logic here. You state that Americans are responsible for paying their bills; that is they are making payments. However, bankruptcy does not do that. It wipes the debt as unpaid. That is not being responsible Davdah, is it? Or is this the do as i say, not as i do mantra.

                    And although it might be intriguing to see whether an illegal can file bankruptcy, bankruptcy is usually an indication of one is not being responsible. After all, if they were and had the foresight as you, there would be no need of bankruptcy, would there?

                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To say there is no evidence to say illegals don't pay their bills is lunacy! The hospitals themselves document it. Show one article that says different. Just one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                    Davdah, you really need to stop putting words in other people's mouths and read the post as is. You have a really bad comprehension problem here.

                    I said there is no evidence one way or the other that illegals are more or less responsible for paying medical bills. The reason is that independent studies do not identify legal status. When you go to the hospital for emergency room care or when you fill out the paperwork when you visit the doctor for the first time, nothing about your legal status is mentioned. If you need assistance in paying, then most state and all federal programs ask for this, but if you have some form of medical insurance, indemnity, ppo, pos, hmo, hsa, etc., the question does not come up.

                    But as for the study, this study is one of the most comprehensive in analyzing unpaid medical bills and how it affects insurance costs.

                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And concerning your civics tests. I bet most immigrants would fail the same tests. Or are you going to overlook the fact that the USC test has all the questions and answers published on-line at 50,000 different web sites virtually guaranteeing a passing score. Take that away and I bet the failure rate would skyrocket. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                    Again, you missed the point Davdah. Don't you think that USC, who are required to know civics from high school and/or college, would have a better understanding of how their own government works than one who is not a USC? The failure rate, no matter how you look at it, is appalling and there should be no excuse. it is one reason why we have the problems today. Piss poor secondary educational standards are ruining this country Davdah. But that is a different topic altogether.
                    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just out of interest, SC has one of the highest high school drop out rates in the country at 54%. Only GA and NY are worse:

                      Manhattan Institute
                      "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        After Much study, I conclude that many have no idea the methods, and advantages to those of Illegal presence. Sky is the Limit for those of Illegal presence, And They are AWARE! Very knowledgeable as to the operation of the system, and how to Live well from the loopholes provided!

                        Davdah Is Aware! Some Others Live within the system, Ignorant to the methods of those from Afar! The system as Equal to Blame!!!
                        USC and Legal, Honest Immigrant Alike Must Fight Against Those That Deceive and Disrupt A Place Of Desirability! All Are Victims of Fraud, Both USC and Honest Immigrant Alike! The bad can and does make it more difficult for the good! Be careful who y

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No Hudson, I cited a study published on ILW, then I citied the statements of elected officials in the City and County of San Francisco who claim their legislation is sanctuary and that San Francisco is a sanctuary city.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Lets go through this step by step. First, bankruptcy. The path to the court house requires acquiring too much debt. Agreed? <span class="ev_code_RED">To build up that debt requires being accountable for it in the first place. </span> If you go to the doctor and give them a phony name/address/SSN you will never see the bill. On the other hand if you do you are in the system and accountable for it.

                            It is well documented that illegals as a rule are more prone to not pay their medical bills. Which is what bankrupted many hospitals in California. Provoked others to take drastic measures like shipping patients back to their home countries once stable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                            Davdah,
                            You have no idea what you are talking about. Whether one gives a fake name or not, the debt is still incurred Davdah. Whether one sees the bill or not, the debt is still incurred. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the excuse of "I never received the bill" even though the person have not moved and the address on the bill goes to that same address.

                            The study cites 79 million who are not paying the medical bills. If you assume all 20 million illegals are not paying (and that is a ridiculous assumption), that still leave 59 million unaccounted for. This study shows the structural and financial constraints facing public hospitals.

                            The health care industry is unique. First, anytime when new technology is introduced, the cost of medical care goes up. New equipment, new training of doctors and staff, and new compliance costs all add up to those payments. New medicines are advertised and everyone thinks this new snake oil would help them because it helped their neighbor. Average out of pocket expenses have also risen. Insurance companies are covering and paying for less. This includes the PPO and POS plans. Medical malpractice insurance has gone through the roof. And you have an increasing amount of unpaid medical bills. And there are other issues too such as regulation and use of property taxes to pay for county health services. Where I live, Parkland Hospital biggest bills came from other counties and their residents. Most have insurance and most are not paying. You simply cannot place all the blame on illegals. It would be like placing all the housing foreclosures on California.

                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The reason there is little evidence of the numbers of illegals filing bankruptcy is they have little or no debt they assume responsibility for. This goes to the root of the problem. A person with character will be responsible. Or at least try to be. One who is not will upfront look for ways to avoid liability. No one wants to pay gigantic medical bills. But would the average USC even think to give a fake name at admission? In most cases not. The average illegal? Its nearly a given they will. Character does count. Can an illegal file BK? You don't know and neither do I. Which goes to show that its such a rare event for an illegal to assume the kind of debt that may provoke such an event. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                            Davdah,
                            The is the most double speak I have ever heard. On the one hand, you give an excuse those that do not take responsibility for their bills and at the same time, you said they should.

                            The reason why you do not see illegals, not to mention legal immigrants, filing for bankruptcy is that it is something that USCIS looks down upon. It shows a type of "character" that is not allowed for USCIS. A legal resident can give the proper name and address, attempt to pay the bill, but will have to file bankruptcy. According to USCIS, that person's immigration status would be in jeopardy. Nice huh. I am sure that you will change your argument again so that immigrants, even legal ones, will not meet your definition of being responsible. LOL

                            Source
                            "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">With civics its a matter of need. If you're a GC holder and know you must pass a test to stay you are more apt to study for it. The average USC is not required. Just as with anything. If you must you will. If not then the results will be less than 100% </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                              Davdah,
                              Civics class is a requirement to pass high school. If you get a bachelors degree, you are required to take government (civics). You would think that USC, those born in the United States, should know how their own government works.

                              It would be like asking your wife, "Who is the president of your native country?' And she replies Tesoro Mifune. Again, there is no excuse.
                              "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                              Comment



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