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    • #3
      iperson, why are you so happy about your country buying used fighter plaens? You are so anti-war for pete's sake! From what I've read, Poland should invest their money in health care instead. Sick people are being cared for in poor conditions and have to wait for weeks to get an untrasound. The president instead, decides to get F16's. Nice!

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      • #4
        'cause everyone gotta have a nuke and be proud of it.

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        • #5
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
          That's right I am against the war, any war, but you have to be ready to defend your country in case of an attack or a war.

          Those are NOT used F16s. They were tested in the US, yes, but they are not used.

          About the healthcare issue. Same can be said about the US. In Poland healthcare is free by the way. As is education on all levels including college. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
          Suprised that you are happy that Poland bought US equipment. Maybe Mig 29's are more to your liking.

          Although healthcare is free in Poland, but the Polish tax rate is also extremely high to help pay for the services. Added to that is a healthcare system that is not exactly best for those with chronic health conditions either.
          "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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          • #6
            Poland is on the list of EU countries I am planning to visit. I,ve been in the west but never had a chance to visit Eastern part of the Europe.

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            • #7
              iperson, please do not compare the health system in Poland with the health system we have here. I wouldn't want free health system if it was like theirs. By the way, I've read that if you want better care, you have to pay off the doctors. I wonder what the poor do. I think the Polish people would prefer better health care instead of F16's! AND, actually my family and I only have a $5 co-pay at the doctor's office, $20 co-pay for specialist, $50 co-pay for hospital and all this for $20 per week out of my husband's check for the entire family. It includes dental coverage also! I say this is like free for us. College is NOT free in Poland, by the way. You know little about your county!

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              • #8
                Here is an article I found:

                Since 1989 the political and economical situation in Poland has been improving. We have successfully implemented democracy, freedom and human rights and life in our country has become easier. Unfortunately these improvements did not include the healthcare system which is still ineffective with a permanent shortage of funds. It has been recognised for many years that the care system needed reform to ensure safety of patients.




                When dealing with life and death everyday it is essential that anaesthetists have optimal working conditions with effective and reliable equipment. Instead we are forced to work with old anaesthetic machines without effective monitoring equipment.
                We have been constantly asking for radical changes but with no success. There are always apparently more urgent matters of state and our pleas are ignored. Our salaries are so poor that they are not sufficient to support our families and we are forced to take on extra jobs and work up to 400 hours a month. We want to work. We are skilled and ready to introduce improvements but this is impossible in the current situation of the Polish health system. Our specialty is confined to hospitals as only there can anaesthetic procedures be performed safely. We are therefore unable to earn extra money from private clinics as other specialists do. For this reason anaesthetists have suffered more than their colleagues and have decided to start a struggle for improvement. Last year the Trade Union of Anaesthetists was established to negotiate with the National Healthcare Authorities. Because the negotiations were unsuccessful, the first wave of hunger protests occurred throughout Poland in 1997 but had limited effect. The Ministry of Health issued official instructions concerning basic standards for anaesthesia procedures recommended by the Polish Society of Anaesthesiology and Intensive Therapy to ensure safety and comfort for both patients and physicians. Unfortunately there were insufficient funds to introduce this programme and nothing changed. No arrangements were made to improve our salaries. No-one was competent to negotiate with us and offer solutions.

                Such a situation could be tolerated no longer. The determination of anaesthetists increased and finally the decision was made to do something dramatic to attract government attention. Fifty per cent of Polish anaesthetists began a hunger protest whilst simultaneously working to prevent a disaster occurring. No emergencies were refused anaesthesia and no ICU bed was closed. We continued to work to the best of our abilities to ensure the safety of our patients. In the meantime, the Polish government changed and our Trade Union representatives have started to negotiate with the new Ministry of Health. We hope these negotiations will be successful and will lead to improvements in the situation of Polish anaesthesia and intensive therapy.

                We believe that it will be the beginning of the global reform of the healthcare system in our country. Unfortunately there are no results so far, so our hunger protest is continued and even increased. We believe in our right to fight for progress in the Polish healthcare system and we ask our colleagues from all over the world for the words of moral support which will help us survive this difficult time.

                We do appreciate any help from our friends.

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                • #9
                  NATO allies have to pay for already obsolete F16C while Israel gets the newest jets for free to kill civilians. By the way why Israel has not sent its troops either to Iraq or Afganistan. The Jews only look how Americans fight their wars.

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                  • #10
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
                    And you all guys know my country better than me..

                    Wow, that is total ignorance. I was born there and lived there for the most part of my life and still have family there.

                    Wow, excuse me, I must be totally imbecile.

                    I know that the healthcare system is not perfect there but we've got excellent educated doctors. You only need to find the right doctor.

                    I graduated from college there too and didnt pay a dime in tuition. There are private schools, of course, but I am talking about public universities which are excellent, world class.

                    And what do you know about chronic illnesses in Poland Hudson? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


                    You only need to find the right one??? That's hysterical. You could be dead by then! What happens in an emergency situation? I've read somewhere that the ambulance won't come and get you unless you're a child or you're having a heartattack, otherwise, you're on your own. I wish I knew I'd be on this board so I would have bookmarked that page. Your healthcare system in not perfect? I say it s*cks! AND why is everyone coming here to live and study if the public universities are free? Because they stink too. Afterall, you stay home and sell on ebay. Look where all the Polish education got you!

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                    • #11
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
                      And you all guys know my country better than me..

                      Wow, that is total ignorance. I was born there and lived there for the most part of my life and still have family there.

                      Wow, excuse me, I must be totally imbecile.

                      I know that the healthcare system is not perfect there but we've got excellent educated doctors. You only need to find the right doctor.

                      I graduated from college there too and didnt pay a dime in tuition. There are private schools, of course, but I am talking about public universities which are excellent, world class.

                      And what do you know about chronic illnesses in Poland Hudson? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                      Oh, I don't know. Perhaps this study may help you. Or you can look at this study.
                      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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                      • #12
                        Thank you Hudson for finding these studies. Here is a quote from one of them and this is exactly what I was talking about:

                        For instance, the ratio of hospital beds per 1,000 citizens has decreased substantially, from 6.67 in 1980 to 4.6 in 2002. In 1991, more than 2,500 beds and nearly 100 clinics and dispensaries were eliminated. The average length of stays in Polish hospitals has in the meantime decreased from 12.5 days in 1990 to approximately 8 days in 2002. Some patients have even complained of waiting months for treatment of fatal diseases, and many have resorted to bribing physicians, with whatever is at their disposal, to increase their standing on waiting lists.

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                        • #13
                          This is getting to be a no-contest pretty quickly as well....

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                          • #14
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by user99:
                            Thank you Hudson for finding these studies. Here is a quote from one of them and this is exactly what I was talking about:

                            For instance, the ratio of hospital beds per 1,000 citizens has decreased substantially, from 6.67 in 1980 to 4.6 in 2002. In 1991, more than 2,500 beds and nearly 100 clinics and dispensaries were eliminated. The average length of stays in Polish hospitals has in the meantime decreased from 12.5 days in 1990 to approximately 8 days in 2002. Some patients have even complained of waiting months for treatment of fatal diseases, and many have resorted to bribing physicians, with whatever is at their disposal, to increase their standing on waiting lists. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                            You are welcome.
                            "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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                            • #15
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
                              And what do you expect from Poland after 123 years of occupation between 1790-1918 when Poland didnt exist on the maps of Europe.
                              Then two World Wars and then fifty years of Soviet occupation???
                              The last one being the United States and Western countries' betrayal of Poland in Yalta, by giving us up to the Soviets?
                              After we fought for Your and Ours Freedom? We fought everywhere in Europe. What about Polish pilots in the Battle of England?
                              What about Enigma?


                              What do you expect? Traitors. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                              What did you wanted the US and the West to do, IP. Go to war with the Russians?
                              "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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