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Malaysia knows how to take care of employers of illegals

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  • Malaysia knows how to take care of employers of illegals

    KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia "” An ethnic Indian Malaysian was sentenced to whipping and 10 months in prison for hiring six illegal immigrants, the first time an employer has been ordered to face the cane for the offense, officials said Friday. S. Varatheraaj V. Santrian was sentenced to one stroke of the cane after a court in southern Malaysia found him guilty Thursday of employing six illegal Indian workers at his restaurant in 2005, said immigration department prosecutor Azlan Abdul Latiff. "This is the first case where an employer is being sentenced to caning," he told The Associated Press. "I think that after this, Malaysian employers will be afraid to take in foreign workers (without work permits). They will think twice."

    Illegal immigrants also face caning before being deported.

    http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/content/view/10390/2/

  • #2
    KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia "” An ethnic Indian Malaysian was sentenced to whipping and 10 months in prison for hiring six illegal immigrants, the first time an employer has been ordered to face the cane for the offense, officials said Friday. S. Varatheraaj V. Santrian was sentenced to one stroke of the cane after a court in southern Malaysia found him guilty Thursday of employing six illegal Indian workers at his restaurant in 2005, said immigration department prosecutor Azlan Abdul Latiff. "This is the first case where an employer is being sentenced to caning," he told The Associated Press. "I think that after this, Malaysian employers will be afraid to take in foreign workers (without work permits). They will think twice."

    Illegal immigrants also face caning before being deported.

    http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/content/view/10390/2/

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    • #3
      Malaysian vis-a-vis US situation? Hmm..... let's see, a droplet in an overflowing bucket of water.

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      • #4
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
        Malaysian vis-a-vis US situation? Hmm..... let's see, a droplet in an overflowing bucket of water. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Immigration enforcement director Ishak Mohamed said authorities were intensifying the crackdown on illegal immigrants, who are estimated to number 500,000 to 700,000.

        http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/10/asia/AS-GEN-M...-Illegal-workers.php

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        • #5
          What is..... 12,000,000 official? 30,000,000 underground?

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          • #6
            Yes, indeed, in many cultures extreme punishments achieve dramatic ends. In Malaysia, the shari'a law is still an accepted norm. In Singapore, being a city state, the leader can exercise powers (sometimes absolute) well, due to land size and diminutive constituency. But in the US, extreme caution in meting out punishments, human rights, due process, rule of law, and checks and balances are always the name of the game. And in this country where tort law (et al) is very much all-encompassing, comparative severe physical punishment is improbable. Well, let's see, because in the imminent "enforcement only" scheme that the administration will undertake, they plan to impose "severe" penalties by x%age more than existing rules to employer violators. But then again, extreme caution should be exercised in doing this because such measures may drive US businesses somewhere else offshore where various other welcoming economies abound. All in all, in my opinion, what our government plans to do of solving this age-old immigration mess in reverse (enforcement then legislative relief) will only hurt itself more and may never ever achieve favorable results.

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            • #7
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Will my lettuce really cost me $5.00 a head at Vons? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              No, it won't.
              It may cost the same or even less (Don't ask, it's economics).

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              • #8
                Cliche it is. There you have it.

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                • #9
                  well thats the difference between a civilized nation with human rights compared to a nation like that with SICK unhuman laws...

                  no offense, but thats the truth.

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                  • #10
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                    If our administration does take a tough stance against employer violaters and actually follows through with the penalties it will be interesting to see the outcome. It should show the quickest result of limiting the illegal alien influx. Will my lettuce really cost me $5.00 a head at Vons? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                    Hey davdah,
                    I'm not sure about the lettuce but the American hand-picked oranges might be 3/$20!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm not sure about the lettuce but the American hand-picked oranges might be 3/$20! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Well, if that were the case (which isn't and won't be) then it would mean that the oranges picked somewhere else would be imported here ( at drastically lower than 3/$20 price).

                      And those in orange business would have to either compete (may be purchase robots from Japan that would cost $0.01 per picked orange to maintain, or find other, more realistic ways to effectively manage the business) or use their entrepreneural skills and invest in better businessess in US , where they could pay enough to hire labor while making a profit and , of course, offer a product that had enough demand to cover both.

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                      • #12
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If the wholesale cost of oranges were to jump to 3/20 any other producer would be an idiot to continue selling them here for too much less. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Idiot or genius, oranges could be bought from abroad at much lower than 3/$20 and sold at profit (still at much lower than 3/$20 price).

                        Bottom line, you can't sell oranges at 3/$20, unless there is no other place on Earth to have them at lower cost.
                        And I beleive there are way too many sources of supply, should the cost of oranges skyrocket like explora suggests (which I know won't, but this was hypothetical projection, only for the sake of the argument).

                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Fast forward a couple years and skipping a lot of details. The demand would be near where it was originally and the price would be slightly higher than it is now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Perhaps you are right about that.

                        There is also a possibility, among others, that in absence of affordable labor (yet in possession of everything else) the most competitive growers will invest in technology that will cost less to maintain than the cost of cheapest labor today, which in turn may result in lower prices than today (inflation adjusted, of course).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          According to your logic, the grower in South America may as well stick it for 3/$150.
                          And they may actually do that if there are enough people willing to pay $50 for just one orange (don't think so).

                          In any event, this is what happens:

                          1. No more unlimited supply of cheap illegal labor = businesses that can't afford to pay enough wages to hire legals are out.

                          2. Whoever can pay enough to hire and make profit stays in business (these will be the strongest, best organised, effectively managed enterprises).

                          3. #2 (those who stay in business ) will have to compete with suppliers out of the country.
                          If former raise the price of oranges much above what it is now, a lot of growers in South America will see it as a golden opportunity to sell their oranges at lower price than anyone in US and make huge profits out of it (since they can hire someone to pick those oranges for few hundred pesos in a month, no doubt they can take advantage of that).

                          4. At some point the US farm businesses that still stay in business will have to decide if it's more profitable for them to move out of the country or stay here under certain conditions (like investing in technology to lower the cost of production or have a volume of trade large enough to sustain increased costs of labor and still being able to sell the product at prices competitive with those out of US).

                          5. Bottom line: there will be oranges and their prices will not skyrocket if all illegals are eventually deported.


                          I don't know what whipping have to do with the price of oranges, but I know a thing or two about economics.

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                          • #14
                            1. In a nutshell concept of economics is based on description of the same principle that influences/controls the behavior of the water on uneven surface, only in the former it's called 'invisible hand', 'gravity' in the latter.
                            All that is said beyond derives from above.


                            2. If things get rough for certain businessess, interplay of forces will start.
                            Higher energy and greater forces will inevitably prevail in the end. Simple physics.
                            (Back to 'totality of circumstances')

                            3. When you are talking about 20 year timespan, you should also factor in the role of inflation.
                            It's possible that oranges will cost $50 each in 50 years from now, regardless of the supply/absence of cheap labor and else.
                            Will they skyrocket to $5 each as a direct result of cuts in illegal immigration?
                            I doubt!

                            4. Finally, price of oranges will ultimately depend on demand and willingness/ability of consumers to pay certain price for them.
                            Where those oranges will come from is of secondary consequence.

                            5. See # 1

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                            • #15
                              LMAO

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