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  • How to deal with Intolerant Members

    Trying Times

    Every once in a while, you'll meet difficult ILW.com board members. Question is, are you prepared to take them on?
    Entrepreneur magazine - July 2003
    By Farry Barber

    Have you ever run into a 'tough' ILW.com member? Of course you have; they come with the headache. But what many members don't realize is that 'tough' members tend to fall into four main categories"”and the sooner you learn to recognize these types, the more likely you'll be able to deal with them successfully.


    The Know-It-All: What do know-it-alls value most? Someone who makes them feel important by asking questions that acknowledge their experience and qualifications. You might say "You've been in this immigration board a long time. Tell me how the laws have changed over the years. What's the greatest challenge you face now?" That way, you can get lots of valuable information while making them feel appreciated. You'll also be able to offer an intelligent solution that makes sense to them.


    The Silent Type: These shy and reserved members feel uncomfortable opening up to strangers. Use some common ground to break the ice and help them let their guard down. Get more information out of them by using phrases such as "Can you expand on that?" or "What do you mean?" Ask these members some open-ended questions, then be quiet and let them do the typing. You could also say "If we had to present this to others in your situation, what would you suggest we do?" When they're actively involved, they'll open up more.


    The Indecisive Member: When members are wishy-washy, take a more direct approach. Do some research so you can say "I've been thinking about your concerns and doing some homework. What if we went this way as our next step?" Many times, these members need someone to hold their hand during the process and make the opinion for them. You can also share other member posts with them. When they see that other people have put their trust in you, they will, too.


    The Intolerant/Imbecile Member: These are people"”sometimes longtime members"”who try to take advantage of their access to board by demanding that you cut, delete your posts or desist posting anything that doesn't please them. Try saying something like "We will, as always, welcome your freedom of expression and we will not have any dispute with you. But we have a right to share our opinion just like you do, and, for us to remain on board, we have to be able to express our opinion. I'm sure you can understand." Don't be afraid to stand your ground. Remind them how your posts add value to the board. If they still don't see the value you offer, perhaps it's time to end the discussion.

    What's the best advice for dealing with 'tough' members? Put yourself in their shoes. Be sure to listen to their concerns without interruption. Don't argue with them or get angry or frustrated. Get as much information as you can to understand each member as an individual, and then adjust your posting techniques to each situation accordingly. It's the only way to turn 'tough' members into your best readers.


    copy-pasted and edited from: http://entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,309484,00.html

  • #2
    Trying Times

    Every once in a while, you'll meet difficult ILW.com board members. Question is, are you prepared to take them on?
    Entrepreneur magazine - July 2003
    By Farry Barber

    Have you ever run into a 'tough' ILW.com member? Of course you have; they come with the headache. But what many members don't realize is that 'tough' members tend to fall into four main categories"”and the sooner you learn to recognize these types, the more likely you'll be able to deal with them successfully.


    The Know-It-All: What do know-it-alls value most? Someone who makes them feel important by asking questions that acknowledge their experience and qualifications. You might say "You've been in this immigration board a long time. Tell me how the laws have changed over the years. What's the greatest challenge you face now?" That way, you can get lots of valuable information while making them feel appreciated. You'll also be able to offer an intelligent solution that makes sense to them.


    The Silent Type: These shy and reserved members feel uncomfortable opening up to strangers. Use some common ground to break the ice and help them let their guard down. Get more information out of them by using phrases such as "Can you expand on that?" or "What do you mean?" Ask these members some open-ended questions, then be quiet and let them do the typing. You could also say "If we had to present this to others in your situation, what would you suggest we do?" When they're actively involved, they'll open up more.


    The Indecisive Member: When members are wishy-washy, take a more direct approach. Do some research so you can say "I've been thinking about your concerns and doing some homework. What if we went this way as our next step?" Many times, these members need someone to hold their hand during the process and make the opinion for them. You can also share other member posts with them. When they see that other people have put their trust in you, they will, too.


    The Intolerant/Imbecile Member: These are people"”sometimes longtime members"”who try to take advantage of their access to board by demanding that you cut, delete your posts or desist posting anything that doesn't please them. Try saying something like "We will, as always, welcome your freedom of expression and we will not have any dispute with you. But we have a right to share our opinion just like you do, and, for us to remain on board, we have to be able to express our opinion. I'm sure you can understand." Don't be afraid to stand your ground. Remind them how your posts add value to the board. If they still don't see the value you offer, perhaps it's time to end the discussion.

    What's the best advice for dealing with 'tough' members? Put yourself in their shoes. Be sure to listen to their concerns without interruption. Don't argue with them or get angry or frustrated. Get as much information as you can to understand each member as an individual, and then adjust your posting techniques to each situation accordingly. It's the only way to turn 'tough' members into your best readers.


    copy-pasted and edited from: http://entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,309484,00.html

    Comment


    • #3
      E.:

      I believe you forgot one important category:

      The Attention 'Egocentric' Member: These are the members who come to the board and copy and paste irrelevant and pointless articles just to draw the attention of others, or to make others believe how intellectual and smart they are by presenting these articles. Sometimes these members even bring up threads as old as 2002 wherein the person that asked the question should be already a U.S. citizen, but anyway, the attention seeker member will give his word of advice and will saturate the front page of the discussion board with oldated and useless immigration advice. Another trait of these members is when they pick on other members who are very liked by many others here [read Pasha Patel, 4now, etc] and try to put them down or make them look like a fool, however, just by having a few brain cells anyone can determine [even Michael :-)] that the Attention Seeker member has some issues.

      Comment


      • #4
        Aquila:

        I will, as always, welcome your freedom of expression and I will not have any dispute with you. But I have a right to share my opinion just like you do, and, for me to remain on board, I have to be able to express my opinion. I'm sure you can understand.


        E.

        Comment


        • #5
          E; the point is that you post things completely off any topic remotely related to immigration and that is inappropriate. I may speak the truth and that may offend people afraid of the truth, but at least I stay on issues related to immigration or somehow relevent to what people are discussing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Go Michael!

            Comment


            • #7
              Michael:

              My posts add value to the ILW.com board. They help people see things from broader perspective, make them laugh and in overall serve the Noble cause of spreading the aura of Enlightment.


              E.

              Comment


              • #8
                E; do not ignore the super moderator; I saw you posting irrelevant material and delete it -
                Michael, you are on immigration board for long. Tell me how laws have changed over the past year.
                Please do not post useless and pointless things. They do not add value but create nonsense for legitimate grints !!

                Comment


                • #9
                  One of the most interesting developments was that I-751 divorce waivers could be adjudicated before the divorce was final. Now the divorce must be final. And just recently, border patrol agents were given the authority to deport illegals immediately without having to go to court. I suspect that this will be appealed on the basis of 8th Amendment due process clause. We'll see. Also, BCIS has implemented new changes so that interviews are often waived now if enough evidence is sent in for applications. This has rapidly improved the processing times in the past few months.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can you expand on that?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The new Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS) within the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has been issuing several memos to its various personnel advising them to interpret provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act more restrictively.

                      A recent memo from William R. Yates, BCIS' Acting Associate Director, Operations, indicates that a waiver of the joint filing requirement to remove the conditions on permanent residence may not be filed prior to the final termination of the marriage.

                      As a background, § 216 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (Act) imposes an initial 2-year period of conditional residency on a person who acquired permanent resident status based on a marriage that occurred within two years. § 216 also provides that a conditional resident may remove the conditions on permanent residence by jointly filing a petition (Form I-751) with the citizen or lawful permanent resident spouse before the expiration of the second year anniversary of the grant of conditional residence.

                      In the event that the citizen spouse does not cooperate in the joint filing, § 216 provides three grounds for waivers of the joint filing requirement:
                      1. The marriage was entered into in good faith by the non-citizen spouse, but the qualifying marriage has been terminated and the non-citizen spouse was not at fault in failing to meet the joint filing requirement;

                      2. The qualifying marriage was entered into in good faith and during the marriage the non-citizen spouse or child was battered by or was the subject of extreme cruelty perpetrated by the citizen or lawful permanent resident spouse and again, the non-citizen spouse was not at fault in failing to meet the joint filing requirement; or

                      3. Extreme hardship would result if such non-citizen is removed.
                      The Memo, attempts to answer several questions regarding whether a conditional resident can file a waiver of the joint petitioning requirement on Form I-751 after commencement of divorce or annulment proceedings but prior to final termination of the marriage.

                      Unfortunately, the Memo answers this question in the negative. A non-citizen whose conditional resident status is approaching the two-year anniversary of the grant of such status, but who is unable to file a joint petition to remove the conditions because divorce or annulment proceedings have commenced, may not apply for a waiver of the joint filing requirement, according to the Memo.

                      Over a decade ago, the Immigration and Naturalization Service issued a letter to an attorney suggesting that an I-751 waiver may be filed prior to a final divorce and after a divorce or annulment action has commenced.1 The filing of the I-751 waiver automatically extends the "green card" for one year. If by the time of the interview the conditional resident is issued the final divorce or annulment, the waiver is granted and the non-citizen spouse is granted a permanent green card.

                      The prior interpretation allowing the filing of an I-751 waiver following the commencement of a divorce or annulment action makes much more sense and is consistent with the Congressional intent behind § 216 to ameliorate the hardship that would befall a non-citizen spouse who is unable to file a joint petition to remove conditional residence. Many states, including New York, require a showing of "fault" in order to obtain a divorce. If the parties wish to mutually terminate the marriage in New York without establishing a "fault" ground, they have to remain separated for one year before they can apply for a divorce. Moreover, divorce proceedings are inevitably delayed due to the high costs of divorce, the other spouse's obstruction, property settlement negotiations and several other reasons. It is therefore extremely difficult to terminate a marriage within two years.

                      If the non-citizen spouse is unable to file the I-751 waiver within the two-year period, the conditional residence status terminates and this individual then becomes amenable to removal proceedings. As a result of the termination of residential status, this individual would also lose his or her ability to continue employment in the US. The Memo does add, however, that if such a person is placed in removal proceedings, he or she may request a continuance from the immigration judge to allow for the finalization of the divorce or annulment proceedings. The Memo further reminds that while a non-citizen spouse is in removal proceedings, the BCIS is required to issue a temporary "green card" during the pendency of his or case before the immigration judge.

                      The new BCIS interpretation will cause a lot of hardship to non-citizen spouses who may be in the middle of divorce or annulment proceedings, but which have not yet been finalized before the two-year anniversary. The "marriage termination" waiver is the most convenient way for a non-citizen spouse to remove conditional residence if the marriage has fallen apart. The other two grounds, namely, establishing extreme hardship or showing that the non-citizen spouse has been subject to extreme cruelty, are more difficult to obtain.

                      If a non-citizen spouse cannot file the waiver within the two-year period due to a divorce or annulment proceeding still pending, this person will cease to be a conditional resident after the two-year period.

                      If the spouse is not put in removal proceedings at the end of the two-year period, this individual would still be able to file for the waiver once the marriage has been legally terminated. However, the gap between the termination of conditional residence at the end of the two-year period and the point of time when the I-751 waiver is filed would amount to a "limbo" period when this individual would not have any status or be able to work in the US.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi E ,

                        You are definitely an intelligent person.... I never doubted even a bit...though u had some doubts and misunderstanding in ur mind may be due to some underlying issues... I can debate on that too I meant psychology and stuff that was my favorite specialty...but no time... I came to check this board right now coz I knew u would surely write something irrelevant to my reply like Michael and Depo Man say ... they even figured it out the same way like I did...and Aguila told the same thing... other members are aware of everything but they just don't want to come out and tell something abt it coz they know u will argue on and on and no one wants extra headache...and once u r stuck on debate...u would make joke of the whole issue / other people or write something irrelevant or funny or praising other party to change the whole topic ....

                        You are an intelligent guy; but u dont discuss topic when it comes to real thing / issue / science.... U choose ur path to make fun of other people and write totally not related things when debate is going on.... U wrote techniques about "how to deal with intolerant members " but in fact u r the one who provides the best example here .... Well how can someone discuss with u anything serious when u just make fun of them or write totally ignorant reply to current ongoing debate..? Have u ever thought abt that? Just for example if u discuss some topic very sincerely and I reply to you "tomatoes are very very green or something not related to topic..." well of course other people will leave you alone on that thread and wont discuss it furthermore ...and u feel u won and u r right but that's not the case E ... I remember the sentence Jo wrote...

                        "I know, if you can't d a z z l e 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull."

                        And I and many members would agree with that...

                        My today's morning reply u twisted, edited and ...pasted in that thread "Amusing dialogue of E. with Pasha (updated)" u could have just pasted the reply which I wrote without editing and making fun out of it...there was no need to edit it with ur extra spicy stuff including my profession and making fun of other party ....

                        I know u will come up with something irrelevant thing to this reply also and post this one in that thread "Amusing dialogue of E. with Pasha (updated)" or here with edited version... I will say one thing...go ahead and do it plz.... If that makes u happy ... but u r taking valuable time and space on this board by posting totally not related things to immigration...since this board is called " Immigration Forum"... please don't blame me to give medical advices here coz I never created a single post by myself regarding this but I answered what I was asked for....

                        E... u r a good guy...and I admire u...but plz try to understand u do harm this board and other people that seek for advices in several ways...u can use ur energy which u r full of it ... in other potential things and helping people here...and u will make an excellent member of this community...Have a great evening...Pasha

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Pasha:

                          I could make very serious argument defending my points against yours, and if I did I would do so based on undisputable facts rather than fancy rhetoric or word-game.
                          It would be a bit time consuming enrerprise, but nothing new to me.

                          I could attend to every single detail, argue from every conceivable point of view yet in responce you would say "E.'s writing is too complicated, too long, too boring and too hard to comprehend and thus doesn't deserve wasting my time to respond to it".
                          That's how YOU would choose to turn things around if I was really serious in my debates, and we both know it I remember how once it turned out, I think either in February or March
                          Obviously I see no need to go there again.

                          Or, I could choose to copy-paste this reply under 'amusing dialogue' thread and have a little fun while doing it.
                          But do I need to go any further?

                          After all facts speak louder than anything you and I could ever write.

                          Any sensible person can check the threads and see that I was called [on Public forum] every conceivable name in recent days yet I didn't reply in similar manner to any of my attackers on this board.
                          What for?-I ask.

                          You are right, there is an immence potential and energy but not just in me, it is in ALL people. It is a force, a Natural force. And it can be used for good.

                          Since we all say that we are on the side of 'Good" then why not do what we say?

                          I, for one, want to use this opportunity to extend my sinsere intention to end any dispute on this board.

                          I hope it is not going to be narrow-mindedly interpreted by anyone as a retreat.

                          I repeat: it is my sinsere intention to end any dispute with anyone on this board.


                          Wish you all the best,

                          E.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            whatever thanks for proving my point

                            wish u all the best...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pasha:

                              Although I see no correlation between stating plain facts and proving your points, yet I am glad to see that you too realize how pointless it is to continue a dispute on board.
                              Therefore I conclude that it is over.

                              Best wishes, as always

                              E.

                              Comment



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