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  • #16
    <span class="ev_code_RED">Now tell me that the people you speak of are any different than these being deported. Haiti is probably a true 3rd world country and is probably the poorest country in the world. I once saw a picture of a child eating MUD cakes after those disasters. </span>


    US resume deportation of Haitians

    Tuesday, 09 December 2008

    United States (US) immigration officials have announced that they have resumed deporting Haitians, despite increasing appeals for a halt to the practice.

    The resumption ends a three-month reprieve instituted in September in the wake of a series of storms that devastated the French-speaking Caribbean country.

    Nicole Navas, Spokeswoman with US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said the department determined that it was appropriate to resume deportation based on the circumstances in Haiti.

    She added that the individuals being deported have final orders of removal and the necessary travel documents.

    Forty-three non-criminal Haitians are to be deported.

    Haiti is still reeling from the storms and hurricanes that left over 800 people dead, tens of thousands homeless, and caused over US$1-billion in damage.

    Immigration advocates in Miami have expressed outrage and frustration with the resumption of deportation.

    Cheryl Little, Executive Director of Florida Immigrant Advocacy Centre in Miami, described the resumption as an outrageously inhumane act.

    The latest immigration move comes even as a host of US legislators are calling on Washington to grant Haitians Temporary Protected Status.

    Comment


    • #17
      I will not play your game of name-calling, very unChristian to do that. Otherwise I’d lost my blessings for the day.

      You are asking about the similarity about the bible stories and the undocumented aliens?
      These people traveled hundreds if not thousands of miles in search of prosperity or fertile lands just like the Israelites did and almost all big characters in the Bible from Abraham to David.

      Your next statement the economic turmoil is partly caused by the illegals. Listen, study your lessons well. This situation was caused big-time by the mortgage mess among others and I bet you there is no undocumented illegal have a mortgage unless it is fraud, which is a different story.

      Next, I don’t understand what you are hoping for about that nail in the coffin.

      Next, those waiting in line will have their time and nobody wants to deprive them of that. The question is why are they still waiting until now? Surely it is not the fault of the illegals?

      No no how can a poor man destroy the standard of working wage to this country. Ask the one who paid the wages, they are the one who are exploiting them and still wants to continue to exploit them by not giving them the chance to stand up and live a better life.

      No oppression? Well, this is a $64M question because why would a battered wife not leave her husband?

      God’s people are people who calls on His Name and believes that He is God. When you call people as illegals as if they are sinners. These are poor helpless people, the one that God wants to protect. What about those who aborts children, you don’t mind them because after all abortion will be legalized. So they’re ok with you?


      Post a prayer or pray for other, visit www.godhearme.org

      Comment


      • #18
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mary23:
        I will not play your game of name-calling, very unChristian to do that. Otherwise I’d lost my blessings for the day.


        <span class="ev_code_RED">Name calling? Please. Well I guess you lost your blessings then because this is a quote from you " I might as well live here as an illegal alien and not commit any crime, hoping for an amnesty to happen where I can avail of. Good luck!" </span>

        You are asking about the similarity about the bible stories and the undocumented aliens?
        These people traveled hundreds if not thousands of miles in search of prosperity or fertile lands just like the Israelites did and almost all big characters in the Bible from Abraham to David.



        <span class="ev_code_RED">Poor analogy and no similarity. These bible characters were told what to do by Moses as commanded by Yaweh as part of a bigger plan. Are you saying that the ILLEGALS were told by God to come and circumvent immigration laws in the usa and then demand squatters rights after they got here? yea right. I asked you before and will again.. DO YOU BELIEVE IN OPEN BORDERS?</span>

        Your next statement the economic turmoil is partly caused by the illegals. Listen, study your lessons well. This situation was caused big-time by the mortgage mess among others and I bet you there is no undocumented illegal have a mortgage unless it is fraud, which is a different story.

        <span class="ev_code_RED">You are the one that is ignorant in such things if you believe that is the sole reason for economic strife right now. The mortgage mess is just one aspect. And certainly illegals have their hand in that mess too. and big time Yes I am going to show you so consider yourself served.....

        how about this:
        Thursday, October 09, 2008

        5 Million Fraudulent Mortgages Owed By Illegals
        One illegal alien was arrested this year in Tucson after allegedly using a stolen social security number to buy two homes and rack up over $780,000 in bad debt. Some five million fraudulent home mortgages are in the hands of illegal aliens, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development

        or this:




        Citibank Offering Illegal Aliens Mortgages With Below Market Interest Rates, Down Payment Assistance And No Mortgage Insurance Requirements
        By Digger


        Citibank has been offering illegal aliens mortgages by using Taxpayer ID numbers instead of Social Security numbers to bypass the fact that these people are illegal aliens. On top of this they are actually giving these illegal aliens special treatment they wouldn't even extend to US citizens. This is an outrage. To the millions of Americans who cannot afford a home this is simply indefensible.

        I reported recently on Wells Fargo giving loans to illegal aliens through a program called Celebrate Home. While outrageous the Celebrate Home program didn't seem to include additional incentives like this Citibank program does.

        Anyone out there looking to buy your first home should be very pissed off to find out that they are giving these people -- who snuck into the country -- below market interest rates, down payment assistance and not even requiring mortgage insurance! While it is outright illegal to aid and abet criminals, there are no laws on the books (yet) against loaning to someone using a Taxpayer ID number instead of a Social Security number. The fact that they are giving these people -- who could be deported and default on these loans -- downpayment assistance and not even requiring the mortgages be insured is just mind boggling from a lending perspective.

        full pathetic story



        </span>



        Next, I don’t understand what you are hoping for about that nail in the coffin.



        <span class="ev_code_RED">Why would I expect you to understand when you cannot even comprehend the basic premise of the downside of illegal immigration. Elementary to understand. If we make 20 million illegals legal, then they are eligible for benefits of the usa and jobs. Right now usa legal residents need jobs. This would be the wrong thing to do at this point in time, as the economy could not withstand it currently.</span>

        Next, those waiting in line will have their time and nobody wants to deprive them of that. The question is why are they still waiting until now? Surely it is not the fault of the illegals?



        <span class="ev_code_RED">But you are. You are asking that the illegals be made legal while they are here. You dont want them to go back to their country and wait in line like all the other people that have done it in a legal way. I say, let them go back and see how it feels to have to wait in line in a legal way. It is fair, is it not? You ask why is it taking long.. ? Oh remember that amnesty brought about by Reagan and then Clinton? those applications put a strain on the system, and they got processed because of immediate relatives.</span>

        No no how can a poor man destroy the standard of working wage to this country. Ask the one who paid the wages, they are the one who are exploiting them and still wants to continue to exploit them by not giving them the chance to stand up and live a better life.


        <span class="ev_code_RED">They destroy the working wage by deliberatly undercutting the wage that they will work for and without benefits. They work under the table many of them so that the employer does not pay payroll taxes. They deliberately disrepect the going wage because they have WANTS... not NEEDS. Employers would not have a leg to stand on if the illegal demanded the going wage. But they dont. Now the wages in those industries have been destroyed by these people working for dirt becaudse they have a different standard. The illegals exploit themselves and the legal workers of usa. If they would stand up and demand the proper wages, the employer would hire a legal worker first. The illegals dont want that because they are selfish and want the job, so they continue to be dishonerable. Let them go home to their countries where they really are exploited. Again.. I will say it. The illegals destroyed the working wage in construction industry, and every industry that they have expanded themselves into.</span>



        No oppression? Well, this is a $64M question because why would a battered wife not leave her husband?



        <span class="ev_code_RED">Your analogies need some work. this one is so not applicable. I have no clue why a battered wife wont leave her husband. She is only oppressed if the husband will not allow her to leave the marriage home. It certainly would not because she has no where to go, as there are shelters or family out there. Perhaps she is too lazy to work for herself and make a living so she endures beatings so she doesnt have to fend for herself. Maybe she loves the man and is willing to contend with whatever is given to her b/c she believes in marrige to its fullest. Like I said.. what does this have to do with illegals who are not oppressed by any means as they can return to wherever they came from at anytime.</span>

        God’s people are people who calls on His Name and believes that He is God. When you call people as illegals as if they are sinners. These are poor helpless people, the one that God wants to protect.


        <span class="ev_code_RED">I have called them illegals/undoucmented as a category. You on the otherhand did refer to them as though it was some type of sinner situation by the statement you made. All illegals are not poor helpless people as you say. You need to stop. Your ignorance is showing. </span>

        What about those who aborts children, you don’t mind them because after all abortion will be legalized. So they’re ok with you?


        <span class="ev_code_RED">What the he ck does this have to do with the topic we are speaking of? Abortion is legal in this country by the law of men, not the law of God. God says to obey the law when it does not contradict his own law. This one is a no brainer.</span>

        Post a prayer or pray for other, visit www.godhearme.org


        <span class="ev_code_RED">When you pray, pray in secret and not wear religion on your sleeves to boast of your christianity.
        How and where to pray</span>


        </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Comment


        • #19
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are 12 million reasons. And yes, many did get loans for homes. Due in no small part to lax compliance and simply turning a blind eye to what would be reasonably obvious. That the person sitting across from the loan officer is illegal. Illegal not just in status but also a violation of title 18. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          In other words, it WAS the bank and mortgage companies fault!
          "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

          Comment


          • #20
            Thanks for those long detailed responses.

            About that 5M mortgages; because this is fraud, they are out of this issue. Who helped them into doing these is the question? They can’t possibly obtain them without help, I think.

            What is covered here are those who are hiding in the dark because of crime of working here in the US, lowly paid, walking in the highway in the cold and darkness. Surely this pierces God’s heart.

            I related this issue to the Bible because of the similarity of Bible characters where they traveled to find the Promised Land. Yeah, illegals have crossed the borders, etc. but since they made it thru, they are here for a reason not by accident. Whatever it is, only God knows. What is apparent is God is not pouring out His blessings now to the US.

            You can continue with your line of thinking surely you are no Mosses. The modern times Moses are sen kennedy, john mccain and Pres. Bush. They understand how important it is to free these people from bondage and give them decent living. If US does this, God will pour His blessings again, that I pray.

            It is useless to continue this with you. You have a heart as hard as a rock. And I have to no time for you anger and bitterness.

            Comment


            • #21
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mary23:
              Thanks for those long detailed responses.


              <span class="ev_code_RED">You are welcome. Just trying to help enlighten you with facts.</span>

              About that 5M mortgages; because this is fraud, they are out of this issue. Who helped them into doing these is the question? They can’t possibly obtain them without help, I think.


              <span class="ev_code_RED">On the contrary my dear.... This means that 5Million illegals stole or fabricated social security numbers. IDENTITY THEFT and destroyed probably more than half of the lives of the people that they stole from or created nightmares that will take years to recover from. Criminal ...right?... no big deal b/c they were just trying to get a peice of the american pie. Even still, you do not comment on the loans that went into default with citicorp. the ones that used ITINs. Yes the so called government do gooders helped them to commit the crime against the american taxpayers and deprived hard working americans from opportunities to purchase homes. Imagine, taxpayer monies used for these grants given to orgs like acorn and laraza and others benefited illegal undocumented and not americans. What is wrong with this picture?</span>

              What is covered here are those who are hiding in the dark because of crime of working here in the US, lowly paid, walking in the highway in the cold and darkness. Surely this pierces God’s heart.


              <span class="ev_code_RED">I dont think God concerns himself too much with greedy attitudes of people in any walk of life. Surely if this is what is happening to some of these people, then they should return home to their country for a better life than walking in the dark and being cold just to attain material things and not neccesities.</span>

              I related this issue to the Bible because of the similarity of Bible characters where they traveled to find the Promised Land. Yeah, illegals have crossed the borders, etc. but since they made it thru, they are here for a reason not by accident. Whatever it is, only God knows. What is apparent is God is not pouring out His blessings now to the US.

              <span class="ev_code_RED"> I dont even know how to respond to you on this. You sound very lost. It appears that you equate blessings with money or wealth. God is still pouring out his blessing to the people that are following his ways. The governments of the world have their roots with Satan. Now that is apparent. You are ridiculous trying to use illegals as the reason that USA is not being blessed by God. This was not like when the usa went to africa and stole people and broke up families to bring cheap labor to do work. Enslave the people and oppress them. Even up until 1964 these people did not have civil rights. This country still prospered. You need to take some history lessons </span>

              You can continue with your line of thinking surely you are no Mosses. The modern times Moses are sen kennedy, john mccain and Pres. Bush. They understand how important it is to free these people from bondage and give them decent living. If US does this, God will pour His blessings again, that I pray.


              <span class="ev_code_RED">Hmmmm .. Lets see. The three stooges as Moses eh. The murderer of chappaquid****, Clueless McGoo, and Bush The butcher of Baghdad. Kennedy and Mccain have an agenda under the guise of amnesty for all.


              "McCain said there were "50,000 Irish men and women in this country illegally who want to become citizens'' and that "we have to give them a path to citizenship"

              When CIR did not make it, they both wrote a private bill for these 50k irish in hopes of getting it approved. Real sincere about those masses of illegals eh. It will pass, this was a deal struck with Obama for kennedy's endorsment. Wait and see.

              Worst of all, you speak about make the illegals legal to get God's blessing, yet you do not speak of the horrible crimes of the usa invading Iraq and killing over 1Million civilians. Do you honestly believe that God was happy about that? </span>



              It is useless to continue this with you. You have a heart as hard as a rock. And I have to no time for you anger and bitterness.

              <span class="ev_code_RED">It is useless for me to try to communicate with someone who cannot substantiate their claims, or debate the issues with facts. You are a hyprocrite. You do not believe in open borders becuase you do not want criminals next to you. Yet this is what you are asking for in essence.

              My heart is not hard, nor is there bitterness or anger yet. I just do not believe in rewarding bad behaviour over good behavior. Let me remind you of the following,,


              In case you don't know what the laws regarding illegal aliens are, see US Code, TITLE 8 (ALIENS AND NATIONALITY), CHAPTER 12 (IMMIGRATION and NATIONALITY), SUBCHAPTER II (IMMIGRATION), Part VIII (GENERAL PENALTY PROVISIONS) which contains the following provisions:
              § 1321 Prevention of unauthorized landing of aliens
              § 1322 Bringing in aliens subject to denial of admission on a health-related ground; persons liable; clearance papers; exceptions; "person" defined
              § 1323 Unlawful bringing of aliens into United States
              § 1324 Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
              § 1324a Unlawful employment of aliens
              § 1324b Unfair immigration-related employment practices
              § 1324c Penalties for document fraud
              § 1324d. Civil penalties for failure to depart
              § 1325 Improper entry by alien
              § 1326 Reentry of removed aliens
              § 1327 Aiding or assisting certain aliens to enter
              § 1328 Importation of alien for immoral purpose
              § 1329 Jurisdiction of district courts
              § 1330 Collection of penalties and expenses



              The following quote really sums up the reality.

              "This isn’t really about immigration, though — it’s about power.
              What we’re seeing in the streets is a naked assertion of power by outsiders against the American nation. They demand that we comply with their wishes and submit our immigration policies for their approval, and implicitly threaten violence if their demands are not met. Far from being a discussion among Americans about the best way to regulate immigration, the illegal-alien marches have been marked by the will to power: burning and other forms of contempt for the American flag, "




              '



              </span>


              </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Comment


              • #22
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                Every person in the financial food chain participated. The realtor, loan officer, lending bank, property inspector, property appraiser, mortgage insurance company, escrow officer and company, title insurance company, city clerk recording the deed, Home owners association, et al. All had reasonable knowledge that the person was illegal and was not eligible to purchase property and did nothing.

                And now the illegal lost the house and in the process dragged down the property values of his neighbors. Lost his job too but since he lowered the prevailing wage the affects will linger for a while.

                The only beneficiary or people being blessed are those able to purchase the vacated homes at 30 cents on the dollar. Generally for cash though, no loans available. Those houses will be repaired and rented out to the people who couldn't afford one to begin with. back to square one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                Davdah,
                No where in the banking regulations does it state that a bank or other financial institution cannot lend, open, or otherwise do business with someone who is not of legal status. What you are confusing is that financial institutions must verify the idendity of the borrower. That is all. This can include a valid driver's license, passport, or other documents. And since 2002, the line on the disclosure form only asks if you are a citizen or not. If you are not, then the borrower must sign an additional paperwork, but in that additional paperwork, no where does it state your immigration status.

                Noncitizens have the same rights as citizens and could be labeled as discrimination based on citizenship or alienage.
                "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                Comment


                • #23
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                  Non-citizens have the same rights as citizens? Since when.

                  There is some issue with lending to illegals since it is a violation of title 18. The paperwork from the lender implies you are here legally by signing it. Maybe you should talk to a loan officer again. Things have changed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                  Davdah,
                  Title 18 deals with crime and criminal procedure. It does not deal with the banking regulations which, if there is a violation, Title 18 would apply.

                  As for the paperwork davdah, the question simply asks are you a citizen. There are only two options, yes or no. The additional paperwork requires additional documentation. Even though a green card or an EAD card can be appropriate documentation, they are not the only ones. Nor does the paperwork imply that one is here legally or even temporarily, like a few days. And in some cases, the alien really does not have to appear in person to sign the paperwork. These could be sent using secured international carriers such as FedEx, UPS, or DHL.

                  But if you want to continue this charade, perhaps you would show where in Title 12 that it is illegal. Perhaps the truth in Lending Act? Or maybe Section 326 of the Patriot Act? Or perhaps the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act?
                  "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                    You answered your own question. Section 8 specifically addresses the issue of aiding and abetting an illegal. It includes such things as providing shelter, encouraging, and harboring.

                    Maybe this could be used as a source of revenue. Since the RICO statute applies we can form a class action law suit against Bank of America for one due to their illegal alien loan programs.

                    It would have merit. They embarked on a program of reckless disregard on the communities whom they should have known would lose value due to their practices of giving loans they knew were going to go bad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                    Davdaj.
                    Opening up bank accounts or providing loans is not aiding and abetting Davdah. There is not legal standing or merit to your preosterous suggestion.
                    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                      Giving a loan to someone so they can buy a house is aiding and abetting. Clear as day.
                      The loan anchors the house. The house ties the illegal to a community and allows for them to easily continue their illegal life. Its why giving them shelter is illegal.

                      The bank has an obligation to the community they reside in to avoid exploitative measures that would undermine the value of the community or otherwise cause harm to its inhabitants.

                      Not only did they ignore that obligation they hid the true quality of those loans by packaging them with other 'good' loans for re-sale. Those loans were known to be on property that was overstated in value. Property sold to people who had a higher known risk of default due to their status. That risk was intentionally hidden to inflate their profit margins and divert the liability to us, the tax payer.

                      Further, the bank, knowing of the impending likely loss of property value and high default rate sold those misrepresented loans to Fannie and Freddie. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                      Davdah,
                      We are not talking about giving loans to the Gambino family to run and operate illicit and illegal businesses Davdah. And nothing in the paperwork specifically addresses legal status. YOu are either a citizen or non citizen. It is the same question being asked by a foreign individual who buys a property but never sets foot on U.S. soil.

                      As for exploitative measures. those are spcificed in the anti-discrimination laws and the Fair Loan information documents. Again, nothing in the legal statue under FDIC or other banking regulations address this issue as being illegal or prohibited transactions.

                      Under Title 8, unless an alien enters the United States without inspection more than once, then EWI becomes a potential criminal offense where aiding and abetting might apply. Furthermore, aiding and abetting is limited to the pursuit of obtaining legal status, which a loan does not even do.

                      And you will find no legal statue, no legal opinion, no legal code to justify what you think is aiding and abetting.
                      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mary23:
                        Thanks for those long detailed responses.

                        What is covered here are those who are hiding in the dark because of crime of working here in the US, lowly paid, walking in the highway in the cold and darkness. Surely this pierces God’s heart.

                        You can continue with your line of thinking surely you are no Mosses. The modern times Moses are sen kennedy, john mccain and Pres. Bush. They understand how important it is to free these people from bondage and give them decent living. If US does this, God will pour His blessings again, that I pray.

                        </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


                        Mary23, you have not told us your problem(s) that you want us to log on and pray for you. You have disguised yourself and intention thinking that we may not know your latent agenda. The worst type of deception is carried out by people like you who operate under the auspices of "Christianity". Please come clean on this board if you so profess your true believe in prayers. Tell us that you're an illegal immigrant who needs our prayer to stay in the country then we will know how to pray for you ok.

                        You started your thread in a benevolent manner but when you likend or compared moses with Bush, Sen Kennedy, and McCain, you completely lost my respect. You are lucky thay you did not compare or likened these people with the prophets of any other religion, they would have been after your head at this point.

                        Regarding the illegals, no one has subjected them to those cruel conditions you described above. They including me all have the options to go back to where they came from if they believe they are better off in their original country.

                        I repeat, the most fraud/deception are commited by those who disguise themselves as Christians to which I believe you are one of them. Mary23, I am of the believe that you're an illegal alien in need of help.

                        4Now, thanks for all the lecturing. Don't waste any more of your precious time responding to the thread from this poster until she comes clean.

                        Comment

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