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  • amnesty

    what is amnesty and who can get it?

  • #2
    what is amnesty and who can get it?


    • #3
      Amnesty aka legalization.
      There is no legalization amendment at this point and no bills in the near future. Maybe after the elections.


      • #4
        THE MOVEMENT TO GRANT AMNESTY TO ILLEGAL ALIENS is afoot once more, despite the fact that most Americans oppose it. That's why its supporters don't call it "amnesty" at all, but "regularization" or some such euphemism. Amnesty can be approved by various sneaky methods, in order to avoid real debate on the issue - something amnesty-backers desperately wish to avoid. Amnesty could be attached as a "rider" on a popular bill, pushed through at an odd time in the legislative calendar or approved in such a manner as not to reveal who was really for it and who wasn't. Amnesty could also be approved by including it in a "temporary" worker program to "solve" a non-existent labor shortage, or in the form of yet another extension of the 245(i) amnesty-for-sale measure, recently approved by the House (by only one vote) but not yet by the Senate.

        Any way you cut it, though, amnesty is a bad deal for the U.S.A. Consider a few reasons:


        Both common sense and experience tell you that. The approval of any amnesty deal would be known here in Mexico and in other countries immediately, if not sooner. A few years ago I had a sixth-grade student informing me there was to be another amnesty.

        Amnesty sends a message to immigrant-sending countries that America is a pushover, and that future illegal aliens are also likely to be amnestied as well.

        Back in 1986, there was a big amnesty that was supposed to be the amnesty to end all amnesties. Now there are more illegal aliens in the United States than in 1986. (One set of calculations puts the figure at about 11 million, with about 3 million from Mexico alone, though no mortal knows for sure).

        Granting any or all of these illegal aliens an amnesty is not a solution because it encourages more illegal immigration. Which means at a future date, another amnesty will be promoted as the solution....


        A legal immigrant expressed it to this way, "Here I am like an idiot, applying to immigrate, filling out papers, learning English, getting a job, paying taxes, becoming part of the American community – and for what? So that my taxes can support the 3 million illegals who cross the border, get on welfare, send their kids to Spanish schools, get free health care (for which I have to pay of course) and wait for their citizenship to show up at the door, then turn around and vote for people who will raise my taxes to let in another 3 million?"

        It's hard to argue with such logic. The correspondent also told me that. "I have been here for almost 20 years. America has changed so drastically and for the worse. If I had it over today I would stay home. Very sad."

        An amnesty sends a powerful message to prospective immigrants in other countries. It tells them that it's simpler, and more rewarding, to emigrate illegally than legally.


        The INS is a bureaucracy with serious problems.

        Need I remind readers that the INS issued visas to two dead 9/11 terrorists – on March 11? The INS is so over-loaded with processing visas that it can't properly investigate prospective immigrants. The present INS commissioner, James Ziglar, was appointed with no qualifications whatsoever to run the agency and once publicly expressed his uncertainty as to whether he even believes in controlling the border!

        The real culprit of course is Congress, who sends the INS conflicting directives and then fails to exercise oversight.

        The solution is to fix the presently existing problems by adopting clear guidelines and reduce immigration so the INS can do its job properly. An amnesty would just add to their backlog of unprocessed visas and make a bad situation even worse.


        The 9/11 attack was, among other things, a failure of U.S. immigration policy. We are all paying for it.

        Our troops are laying their lives on the line in Afghanistan and may soon do so in other places.

        At home, thousands of National Guardsmen have been separated from their families and activated to guard airports, the border and military bases.

        To me, this is more than a news item. I have been called up by my National Guard unit and must report soon to participate in Homeland Security. I may be gone for a year.

        And, as always in times of national stress, our civil liberties too could be in danger if we're not careful.

        How then could national leaders, of both parties, have the unmitigated gall to amnesty people who did not respect our laws and entered our country illegally, or over-stayed their visas?

        Bear in mind that the already existing infrastructure supporting illegal immigration (document fraud, etc.) can be easily utilized by terrorists. Seven of the 9/11 suicide attackers acquired phony identification with the aid of illegal aliens, using the fraudulent infrastructure that already exists to serve illegals. An open border, by its very definition, does not discriminate between those who want to work illegally and those who wish to wreak havoc.


        Before we enact an amnesty to further swamp the INS, there are basic questions that should be answered.

        Immigration is a public policy issue that the American people have the right to decide upon. The basic question, usually ignored, is, " What kind of immigration system should we have?" It's not wrong for American citizens to ask this question, nor is it wrong for them to question the present system.

        The present legal immigration system is based on nepotism, i.e., the majority of legal immigrants are accepted because they have relatives already in the country. Is such a system really appropriate for 21st-century America?

        What about dual citizenship? More and more people have it, but our leaders are afraid to deal with it. How does dual citizenship impact American civic values and equality before the law?

        And how about those anchor babies? Is it fair to reward illegal immigrants by automatically declaring their children citizens?

        Furthermore, it is no longer necessary for prospective voters to even prove their citizenship.

        These are important questions that should be dealt with and resolved before ANY amnesty is even considered.


        An amnesty would signal to Mexico's leadership that it can continue to send its poor to the U.S. rather than solve Mexico's problems in Mexico.

        Certainly, the existence of a more prosperous Mexico is in the best interests of the United States. Yet, as I have argued elsewhere, the present mass immigration policy is hardly bringing about that goal. Mass emigration serves as an impediment to Mexico's development. Why take the difficult decisions to improve Mexico's long-term prospects when the poor people can be sent northwards?

        The career of Vicente Fox is a prime example of this phenomenon.

        Candidate Fox promised prosperity and a new Mexico which would provide jobs for all Mexicans IN Mexico.

        After 15 months in office, however, the magic has begun to fade. Fox's incoherent economic program has stalled. The presidente has failed to even attempt really substantial measures that could make Mexico more prosperous – breaking up the government energy monopolies, fixing the country's pathetic property title system, making it easier for entrepreneurs to start new businesses, improving the taxation system, etc. Now Fox's main economic program is to keep the U.S. borders open!

        How can we help Mexico prosper? By cutting off the safety valve that encourages its leadership to dodge the tough decisions. When that happens, you can expect to see some real reform, but not until then.

        Then if we wanted to design some kind of Marshall plan to help Mexico, we could. The Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe, remember, was based on helping Europe rebuild, not encouraging Europeans to move to the United States.

        Helping Mexicans IN Mexico – now that's a novel concept!


        • #5
          Hey and have you ever thoug how many Mexican and mexican-american are in Irak and give their lives for this country, USA its a contry of inmigrants even you maybe generations ago but still.............. you just racist you just care about colors and that evil and ignorant at the same time


          • #6
            Depo Man,

            This is the first time I've seen you write anything worth reading, but you failed to bring up a couple of things. Amnesty would work if we could get FULL control of the borders FIRST!!! I know that is a awful BIG "IF". Also, if we did not have another amnesty, what would you propose we do with the 11 million illegals currently here? As I have wrote on another site, you are right in that most Americans do not want to hear about, talk about or deal with the situation. There is one major thing missing here, who would fill the millions of jobs the illegals are filling now? Granted some would be filled by Americans but most would stay unfilled because of the 5.something% of unemployeed Americans approx. 3+% are the unemployable. This being the case wouldn't any logical individual think that our economy would fold? Or at least be badly damaged if all illegals were to leave? If you believe that then it would not be logical to support anything but amnesty. I fully understand and agree with most of your points especially about people who done it the right way, nut what else can we do? IS it right for us to just keep on ignoring the problem?


            • #7
              I dont get it...

              There is a feeling that having an AMNESTY will be a threat to the nation...?

              Isn't there also a threat for having a GROWING illegal aliens in this country, which in my opinion attracts even a BIGGER threat?

              I think post-election will bring immigration back on the table... Bush or no Bush... illegals are growing all over the country, and something needs to be done. With current technology... I think you can legalize people through Biometrics, just like the Special Registration worked... that way, you can punish people by having additional rules to the old ones.

              Either way... we are at a point where immigration is saturated with this country than any other period. We need controlled legalization. Possibly, extending the 245i act by a year every other year, and the house should learn from the benefits and the cons of such idea.

              Looks like IRAQ will be the 1st real mistake this country has made this century. Our resources should be focused to more relevant issues; economics, immigration and national defense. Let's cut the b.u.l.l. and stop policing the world on our own.


              • #8
                HHHMMM, I wonder if all the money that has been spent on the Iraq war would have been enough to completely seal our border????

                Kinda makes you wonder huh?

                Any and all INS reform begins with SEALING OUR BORDERS!!! Having jobs enough for all who come and being possible to come in itself is saying we condone you coming. Until these issues are resolved history will repeat itself. Something has to be done with the illegals here working, with families and lives here that they have so far been allowed to have right?


                • #9

                  1. Make them pay $10,000 each to be distributed among all white Americans
                  2. The men are not allowed to marry attractive women; they can only marry unattractive ones
                  3. Only attractive females allowed and they must submit to the sexual wishes of Americans
                  4. They must serve 5 years in the military in combat zones and bring back the heads of 15 moslems
                  5. No criminal or civil record of course
                  6. They must register, vote and campaign for Republicans; supporting any non-American party (Communist, Democrat, etc...) is a deportable offense
                  7. They must be white
                  8. They must speak English
                  9. They must never collect welfare, child support, alimony or any other American source of money
                  10. They must fly the flag (American) outside their homes
                  11. Anyone with a name like Yousaf, Mohammad, Tariq, allah will automatically be denied.
                  12. Immigrants must stand on top of a box wearing a hood for 4 hours answering cartoon trivia questions; wrong answers will result in a small shock
                  13. The applicant must pass tests in American History, English and Calculus
                  14. Male applicants and Female applicants over 30 years old or over 110 pounds will be rejected
                  15. Remaining Female applicants (Under 30 years old and 110 pounds or less) will be interviewed personally, by me.

                  and then Super moderator would consider allowing them.

                  Thank you for your cooperation in defending America's borders.

                  The Super Moderator Michael
                  Department of Homeland Defense


                  • #10
                    A-girl; everyone risks their lives for America. We have all rights to send lazy a$$e$ of Mexicans to Iraq.

                    AMERICA – LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT !!!!!!


                    • #11
                      O.K. so I was wrong.

                      Depo Man showed a glimmer of hope for a moment but soon resorted back to his old ways. He is again writing things not worth the energy to read.

                      Remember, America is primarily made up of immigrants. Everyone here is a immigrant for the exception of pure blooded eskimos and indians. These are the only true Americans. All the rest of us are immigrants.


                      I agree. Securing the borders is the first step and a NUST!!! I am all for immigration and all for amnesty but secure borders must come first.


                      • #12
                        Bush is paying the price and his administration will be held accountable as situation gets worse in IRAQ. I honestly think there is no STRONG enough strategy to fix the crisis in IRAQ. This is not our war, this not the war of out enemies, and this definetly not worth the cost and lives of our nation.

                        So the question is... what message are we sending to the rest of the world, especially those who refused to get in this mess with us? - Bush being the seated president for the next 4 years, will be just a continuing stress in our foreign policy, and our domestic situation (economics, immigration, health etc).


                        • #13
                          hey no body send mexicans to Irak they go because they love this contry , and if you talking about lazy people thats got nothig to do whit your color or where you are from, you said you are white and you are a couch potatoe.... and what do you say about all those welfer mom, ups your mom was one of those for chour, mexicans come here to work they do all the work that americans dont want to do and stop being such a racist ignorant piece a garbage


                          • #14
                            This amnesty debate is tired.

                            All these evil illegal aliens coming to the Us and taking Us jobs. What about big business that are outsourcing jobs outside of the US to countries such as India?
                            How can anyone say that illegal immigrants are stealing US jobs when US countries are actually doing this in search of increasing profits.
                            It is accepted to blame illegal aliens for all the ills of the USA but be serious....the majority of H1b visas go to those that are educated to actually do the jobs. If education was placed on the level that it should be...all of our children should see a college education as a requirement rather than an option.
                            At this point in time there are millions of illegal aliens in the USA. Read that again.
                            I suppose you can deport all of those millions but it would seem that the first step would to be deport those that have been ordered deported based on a felonious crime...or do you beleive that less attention should be drawm to those immigrants that were found guilty of felonies?
                            How amusing to Me to see people administer scare tactics as relates to immigration.
                            There are 9 million people here. They may spend $5000 each on housing etc and that is 450 million at the very least going directly to the american economy. All those rents that are being paid thus supporting an americans realtor business...all those groceries that are spent that aid in the economy.
                            The list goes on.
                            What needs to happen is that those immigrants need to have a way to come out of the shadows. Yes Reagan did it in 1996 but this is a new era. This is the post 9/11 era and the rules of then do not apply now. It cant. Its changed. We as a people have changed.
                            We need to know who is here and we need to give them a way to be counted and accounted for without the risk of deportation.
                            We need to secure the boarders to prevent the influx of people that cross over every yeard not because these little brown people steal our jobs but because arab terrorists look latin and can pass if they dont speak.
                            Ever been to NYC and gone into the bodegas that used to be spanish run..many of these corner stores are run by arab immigrants now.
                            I am not against arabs but the lines are blurried now. Something needs to be done.
                            Now we can put our head in the sand and talk out of our derrieres and scream for mass deportation. I suppose that America after this mass deportation will be a safer tho less diverse place. The thing is it aint gonna happen but SOMETHING has to happen and happen for all of our safetys sake.
                            I do not mind walking around with ID on Me. We are getting to the point of living in a police state anyways. No thanks to the terroists who have changed our world forever.
                            It is time for a change.


                            • #15
                              Lost in US,

                              I love your rationale!! Very well spoke indeed. The more our borders are open the more terrorists can get in.

                              There were some news articles not too long ago about some middle east terrorists using the "coyotes" in Mexico to get into US illegally. You know, lets bring our best, brightest and bravest men and women home from Iraq and use that money instead to seal our borders and deal with and account for the illegals here!!

                              In my opinion, we could do much better by using our armed forces along our borders to ensure our nations security better than in Iraq sending them off to their death to fight a war that will never end!!