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What does the bible say ?

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  • What does the bible say ?

    Immigration is a very heated debate . I have followed this from a biblical perspective and I find it very interesting that Americans would say that they are a " Christian nation " . Is that true ? first we need to define what is a Christian . A Christian is a follower of Christ , in fact Christians started to be called Christians in the city of Antioch and the reason was because they imitated Christ . If we read the gospels , we find Jesus healing , blessing the children and feeding the poor . Jesus did not only did this for his own people but he did this for everybody , there are examples of Jesus healing the centurion's servant and several more . The message of the bible is a message of love and acceptance never a message of hate .Abraham was an immigrant , Moses was also an immigrant when he left Egypt and Joseph was also an immigrant when he was sold by his brothers . And there is more

  • #2
    In the book of Exodus ( second book of the bible ) we read the story of the nation of Israel who they were immigrants and Egypt and King Pharaoh started to fear that the Isrealites were growing and no longer were going to be a minority , he infused hate against the Israelites and they oppressed them until their cried reach out to God , he then did miraculous things and deliver his people . Sounds familiar ? nowadays , there is so much hate from those who called themselves Christians against poor immigrants who come here for a better life . But we know that God is always on the side of the oppressed and those who don't have a voice . In the judgment , people are not judge by what they say they did but by what they really did for those oppressed .

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    • #3
      Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's. That means obey the laws where a Christian lives. All authority on Earth derives from God, so the laws against illegal immigration are those of God as well.

      So, there is no justification for illegal immigration.

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      • #4
        Hey Fredy...where's that part in the bible where it says it OK to disregard or violate the laws of a soveriegn country? That it's ok to be a parasite of the taxpayers of that same country? that it's ok to decide which laws you should obey and which ones are OK with god to ignore or violate? Could you quote that chapter? I think not...why? because there are NO such silly quotes in the bible...and trying to rationalize your irresponsible, lowlife law breaking behavior because some deity might have said so is just plain hypocritical....well Fredy? Where's that quote from your almighty? Let's see where some deity gives you and every other piece of slime the green light to disobey any law you don't agree with?
        And how about marrying cows??? I don't recall that chapter either.....

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        • #5
          Freddy,

          First, there is something called separation of church and state. I do not care what the Bible says. The government should not be making laws based on a book written 2,000 years ago. Otherwise, we are going to start stoning people, forbidding pork, hitting our children and allowing slave trade.

          Second, the Bible is up for interpretation. Every single verse can be interpreted in a million different ways. And that is why I do not trust preacher so who have not undergone at least 7 years of religious studies. They usually appeal to a flock that is so ignorant that simply repeats sound bites without applying any reasoning skills.

          Finally, if you are so keen about the Bible, Jesus himself (not Abraham or Moses or any other important figure) said: Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's. Jesus himself is telling people to obey the law of the land. But conveniently, this is always overlooked by people trying to cheap-use the Bible to justify illegal immigration.

          BTW, I am Catholic and a legal immigrant.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by federale86:
            Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's. That means obey the laws where a Christian lives. All authority on Earth derives from God, so the laws against illegal immigration are those of God as well.

            So, there is no justification for illegal immigration.
            Thanks for your opinion . Jesus here was not talking about immigration but about Taxes but the point is well taken . In early America people had slaves and they use the bible to support that but when we read the bible in its context there is no support for that . Something very basic in trying to deal with the bible principles and our society is to understand the existence of evil .Not everything that happens in this world is God's responsibility . Does God change ? According to the bible he doesn't , so for example in the 1840's if someone wanted to come to the United States , did that person had to do the same as today ? So as we can see some of the inhumane laws are not the result of God but people becoming more and more evil .

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cayita:
              Freddy,

              First, there is something called separation of church and state. I do not care what the Bible says. The government should not be making laws based on a book written 2,000 years ago. Otherwise, we are going to start stoning people, forbidding pork, hitting our children and allowing slave trade.

              Second, the Bible is up for interpretation. Every single verse can be interpreted in a million different ways. And that is why I do not trust preacher so who have not undergone at least 7 years of religious studies. They usually appeal to a flock that is so ignorant that simply repeats sound bites without applying any reasoning skills.

              Finally, if you are so keen about the Bible, Jesus himself (not Abraham or Moses or any other important figure) said: Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's. Jesus himself is telling people to obey the law of the land. But conveniently, this is always overlooked by people trying to cheap-use the Bible to justify illegal immigration.

              BTW, I am Catholic and a legal immigrant.
              Thanks for sharing your view . I did my undergraduate theology degree in a Catholic University in El salvador and my graduate degree from a Protestant University here in the United states .I agree that to interpret the bible we need to use the proper hermeneutical tools . One thing is context , we just don't get a statement out of context and build a doctrine on that .But we look at all the evidence and then we put it all together . When we approach the bible , we all have certain presuppositions and we need to accept that but we need to understand that the author of scripture is the Holy Spirit , he inspired men and women to write it .If it comes from the mind of God , then there is harmony . The examples you have given about not eating pork etc . I happen to believe that that command is valid today . The bible never allows "slave trade " etc . About the death penalty for certain sins , remember that they lived in a theocracy back then and God was the real king of the nation of israel but with last King of Judah before going to exile to Babylon the Theocracy ended . Your point of separation of church and state is valid but who is the state , and who is the church ? if you think this one , you will see that it is the same .

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              • #8
                Also remember what the Apostles said when there was a conflict between the Law of Pharisees and the Command of Jesus . acts 4 18,19 18 And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all [n]in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge" in this example , one choice had to be made between obeying one law or the other .One more question ,since you said you are Catholic . Do you consider others Christians as your brothers and sisters ? When some one ask Jesus who is my Neighbor , he told the story of the good Samaritan an example of what the gospel command us to do .

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                • #9
                  sorry Fredy, but there is nothing in that drivel that says ole Hay-zoos has given you and the other 14M lowlife enema bag cleaning illegal aliens permission to ignore the laws of the United States of America.....there is not one word to that effect...so you and the other 14M double digit IQ irresponsible dirtbags have NO excuse....you just aren't genetically programmed to obey our laws and rules...period.
                  So go ask your favorite deity for a green card and see if Hay-zoos sends one to you in the mail....what a hypocritical piece of mierda you are.

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                  • #10
                    No gospel commands you (or your 14M unwashed brethen) to thumb your unwashed nose at our laws.....vaya con el diablo, pendejo.

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                    • #11
                      and you, like those greedy TV evangelists and others continue to re-interpret the book of dogma to fit whatever actions you decide to take (or to ignore whatever laws you choose to ignore)...the bible was written by MEN, to hold sway over morons like you....your brain is about the size of a peanut (similar to your other organ)...and lacks the capacity to think independently, so, you and your fellow morons thumb through this collection of narrowly focused baloney (aimed at favoring men over women, for some odd reason) to find some quote you can re-interpret to justify your irresponsibility.

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                      • #12
                        One of the problems I have with immigration laws is that they keep changing . was in the 40's a crime to enter illegally etc . That is why the immigration laws need to be studied and we need to revise the laws not are not humane and that are against the unity of the families .

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                        • #13
                          No Fredy, the problem you have with our immigration laws is that you refuse to obey them. You are genetically flawed to ignore laws...then you and the other 14M douchebags try to find solace in the Book of Dogma, looking for some justification from some as yet unidentified diety as the excuse for refusing to follow the rules of the United States of America.
                          And don't think I didn't notice that you refused to respond to my questions...just where in the bible does it say that you can just wander into any country and do as you please??? You are just a hypocritical irresponsible lowlife, who has the brains of a three day old taco and who tries to point to some book of blather written by men (not by any deity) and reinterpret any phrase to try and find refuge behind the same as yet unproven to exist deity.
                          Now Fredy...if you believe otherwise, well, summon up said deity...ask him/her or whatever gender deities are to do something simple for you....just to prove his/her existence....have him/her give you my actual name, address and phone number.....should be a piece of cake...and surely a test of your alleged faith....well?????? Click your heels together three times....and repeat....'there's no place like home....there's no place like home....there's no place like home...' and then please...go home...to your own country.

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                          • #14
                            and no one asked for nor cares what your pathetic opinion is of our laws....besides...you would not obey them in any event if they did not suit you, so why worry about?
                            The citizens of the United States of America do not need your opinion about anything...we do not rely on your feeble intellect....

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                            • #15
                              Is there any law by means of which a new bill or law favoring the citizens of America can be passed.
                              Tim Manning

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