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  • Immigration Reform 2009

    Please read this article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04...09immig.html?_r=1&hp

  • #2
    Please read this article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04...09immig.html?_r=1&hp

    Comment


    • #3
      I think everyone has read some flavor of this news today. It is highly doubtful that the present time will be right to introduce new CIR legislation. It will be a bigger disaster than when CIR reform was attempted under Bush in 2007.

      The economy needs to stabilize and unemployment figures go down before the American people will be receptive to any fair immigration reform. Obama has enough on his plate right now. He needs to set CIR aside to another time when it would have a greater chance of garnering support for passage.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't think so. Obama made a promise and is working on that. Let's wait and see. America Urgently needs a CIR ASAP. LET'S ROLL THE BALL!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          There's too much on the plate right now. Would you rather see this get reintroduced and fail again or wait until the timing is right such that people are more welcome to entertaining CIR? It's been two years since the last attempt. Obama and Congress don't stand a chance on this issue right now. The economy needs to stabilize and things need to level out before a successful CIR can be back on the table.

          Comment


          • #6
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
            You must not be from here Bill. You don't honestly expect a politician to keep their promises do you? LOL.

            This country doesn't need a CIR within the scope of legalizing the illegal. That would not benefit the country at all. If anything, just the opposite would serve the interest of the people as it is now.

            Lower unemployment and less drain on social services should be first priority. My guess is, it is. CIR was bounded about during the campaign but quickly faded into obscurity with the economic down turn. There is where it will stay until the recession is over. Maybe 2011, or later. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            I have to agree. CIR is at the bottom of the list right now. He's discussing it to appease all the groups who voted for him. Oh well . . . that's politics.

            Comment


            • #7
              I hope the whole CIR has a more complete solution to current US immigration laws. to say CIR should be in the bottom list is not so correct. CIR is not just saying illegal turn legal, but a more reasonable, stable, complete immigration policy.

              As many has said US is a immigration country build by immigrants yet it has one of the worst immigration system in the world. So CIR is heavily needed.

              Maybe we should not think by legalizing would cause many Americans problems. In fact, there are many educated, civilized, hardworking here who even has their own businesses that can provide jobs for Americans. From what I have known, many who now stay here illegally has successful business....so what is wrong? US immigration system! So we clearly need a change soon.

              Comment


              • #8
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                Any illegal here who has a business is running an illegal business. From taxes to identity theft it is wrong on all counts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                definitely not an illegal business, i believe those are entering lawfully, which means they have all the legal id, numbers. they filed tax and everything. they could be overstayed. I didn't ask them in details, u know we should not ask too much.

                But business likes furniture and etc. is definitely not an illegal business. that is why I said there is a big hole in US immigration system and the reform is badly needed. we really need to face the problems instead of avoiding the problems that could make the matters worse in future.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Give me your tired, your poor...

                  A line from a poem, “The New Colossus,” by the nineteenth-century American poet Emma Lazarus. “The New Colossus,” describing the Statue of Liberty, appears on a plaque at the base of the statue. It ends with the statue herself speaking:
                  Give me your tired, your poor,
                  Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
                  The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
                  Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
                  I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

                  Immigration's Promise
                  How will the Church respond?
                  by Paul Grant

                  Opportunities like this don’t come around every decade. Let's not let this one pass by talking past each other. The US congress is discussing a subset of immigration called illegal - and not immigration in general. This conversation is long overdue; let us not short-circuit the discussion by conflating immigration and illegal immigration. There are good reasons to increase one and eliminate the other, and the most important reasons are cultural, not political or economic.

                  Still, we haven’t had this honest of a conversation about national identity since Martin Luther King’s day. And just as in King’s day, the worst that could happen is not that a bad immigration law would be passed, but that we would fail to hear what God is saying to us through the world today. Ultimately, this debate is not about the here-and-now, nor about the economy, nor about national security. If it is a debate about immigration, it is a debate about the people we are becoming, about our very souls.

                  When the nations of the world meet, we all become different people from the contact. That’s a basic truth for all human interactions, from wars between nations to grade-school games on the playground. Whenever any people meet and mingle, we change and mature. Roommates expose us to alternate ways of approaching similar tasks, and alternate ways of tackling similar obstacles. We can learn from them, disagree with them, or negotiate with them, but we emerge from the relationship as slightly different people.

                  The changes are much bigger when culture and ethnicity come to play. To a degree rarely seen in world history, the United States and Canada are immigrant nations. Our respective national characters are constantly evolving as we live out this grand cross-cultural experiment. Even now, blood from the entire world pumps through our veins. In a very real sense, we are children of all the earth.

                  As Christians, we believe that cross-cultural relationships are a key component of heaven. The book of Revelation describes the New Jerusalem God will create one day:

                  On no day will [the New Jerusalem’s] gates ever be shut … The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it (21:25-26).

                  We will quite literally live with each other for eternity, smelling each others’ food, and hearing each others’ music throughout the ages. And we will love it, not because God will force us, but because God will ensure no harm comes to us as we become family across cultural backgrounds. With nothing to risk, we have everything to gain in learning to love one another.

                  When he created the church, God gave us a stunningly beautiful gift: he allowed us to experience a taste of heaven’s promises, right here, right now. When we as the church live the way we could, building God’s church in our neighborhoods and cities and throughout the world, we are, in very real terms, beginning to take on our heavenly character.

                  From an obscure mountain village in Europe after World War II, where he was the first black man to ever step foot, James Baldwin wrote:

                  The time has come to realize that the interracial drama acted out on the American continent has not only created a new black man, it has created a new white man, too. No road whatever will lead Americans back to the simplicity of this European village where white men still have the luxury of looking on me as a stranger.

                  I am not, really, a stranger any longer for any American alive. One of the things that distinguishes Americans from other people is that no other people has ever been so deeply involved in the lives of black men, and vice versa.

                  Looking primarily from the lens of black and white in America, Baldwin understood that change is inevitable. But the cultural transformations taking place in America were for him also an opportunity of global significance:

                  It is precisely this black-white experience which may prove of indispensable value to us in the world we face today.

                  Baldwin wrote those words in 1955. The same year a local struggle over segregation in city buses in Alabama thrust a young Martin Luther King into the spotlight. God led King to put segregation before the nation, and to put it in moral, not political terms. In many respects, King was offering America the chance to undo our tragic decision, after the civil war, to become two different peoples, of two different grades of citizenship, rather than truly live with one another.

                  Did King’s vision prevail? It’s a mixed result. His moral leadership enabled government to put an end to Jim Crow laws. But a generation after his death, King’s vision of a unified American church remains a distant dream.

                  And now, fifty years after the Montgomery Bus Boycott, we in the United States are having a fresh discussion on the nature of the people we want to be and become. Yes, a government needs to protect its citizens. Yes, a government needs to steward its economy. Republicans and Democrats both agree and disagree on the best legal devices, relative to immigration, to accomplish these two tasks.

                  But what about us? What about that community called the church? Immigration will continue to be a fact of life, no matter how we tweak the law. Of far greater consequence is how we will open our hearts. How will we become new people, as we welcome, minister to, and are ministered to by the people from other lands?

                  The year 2006 will mark a beginning, and not an end. Whatever laws Congress ultimately passes will be more or less relevant to the short-term economics of the country. But in the long run, we can become a bigger and more beautiful church, because we have loved and lived together in Christ’s name.

                  Discuss: What is the Church's role in the debate on immigration? How can the church bless both her neighbors and the governmental authorities? What is the relationship between immigration law and the culture of the people?

                  Unless otherwise noted, all materials on the urbana.org web site are Copyright InterVarsity Christian Fellowship / USA. All rights reserved.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by omgurindanger:
                    I hope the whole CIR has a more complete solution to current US immigration laws. to say CIR should be in the bottom list is not so correct. CIR is not just saying illegal turn legal, but a more reasonable, stable, complete immigration policy.

                    As many has said US is a immigration country build by immigrants yet it has one of the worst immigration system in the world. So CIR is heavily needed.

                    Maybe we should not think by legalizing would cause many Americans problems. In fact, there are many educated, civilized, hardworking here who even has their own businesses that can provide jobs for Americans. From what I have known, many who now stay here illegally has successful business....so what is wrong? US immigration system! So we clearly need a change soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



                    Yes, Comprehensive Immigration Reform should not have anything to do with making illegal person a legal. Say no to Comprehesive Immigration REWARD.

                    This has been the problem. Make the necessary changes to immigration policy that will reduce wait times, put fairness in the code etc.

                    These changes could have been made long ago, or back in 2007 if only they would take out the wording about illegals/undocumented amnesty. Let the amnesty program fall seperate so that the reforms can be made to the current policy. Stop letting io legal/amnesty desires to keep killing the passage of CIR. This would be fair.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      these hypocritical dogma-followers want to believe that some deity will dole out green cards to every illegal alien...while US taxpayers foot the bill for their brats' medical and educational benefits, while illegals steal jobs, evade taxes and bring disease to our country...and for this we are supposed to reward them???? Why? Because the OP is so brain dead he wants us all to believe in some deity????? Not today...Americans are out of work; we don't need more $5 a day workers whose children fill our schools and whose wives crowd our emergency rooms having even more children. Sorry Bill....better ask your favorite deity to rearrange the planet or better yet...why don't YOU take in a dozen illegals into YOUR house, let them use YOUR car, YOU feed and clothe them, hire THEM ahead of your American citizen friends and neighbors....go on...let's see some of that dogmatic attitude actually do something rather than merely talk about it.... but you know, I doubt you'll lift a finger while you're thumping the bible to help any illegal...after all, that might cost you money....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "Question: "How does God view illegal immigration?"

                        Answer: Romans 13:1-7 makes it abundantly clear that God expects us to obey the laws of the government. The ONLY exception to this is when a law of the government forces you to disobey a command of God (Acts 5:29). Illegal immigration is the breaking of a governmental law. There is nothing in Scripture that would prohibit obeying immigration laws. Therefore, it is a sin, rebellion against God, to illegally enter into another country. Romans 13:1-7 also gives the government the authority to punish lawbreakers, whether by deportation or imprisonment (in the cases of illegal immigration), or more severe penalties for greater crimes.

                        The vast majority of illegal immigrants in the United States have come for the purpose of having a better life, providing for their families, and escaping from poverty. These are good goals and motivations. However, these reasons do not give a person the right to break a law. Those seeking to immigrate to another country should obey the immigration laws of that country. While this may cause delays and frustrations, these reasons do not give a person the right to break a law.

                        What should a country do with all the illegal immigrants that are currently in the country? For the most part, this is not a biblical question. The Bible does not mandate how governments should respond to every type of illegal action. Governments have the right and authority to do as they see fit, whether that be deporting illegal aliens, arresting them, or granting them amnesty."

                        The Scripture clearly says,
                        When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 19:33, 34
                        Do not mistreat the alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt. Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know what it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt. Exodus 23:9
                        Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the fatherless or the widow. Deuteronomy 27:19

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                          Any illegal here who has a business is running an illegal business. From taxes to identity theft it is wrong on all counts. And do you think a single one of them are hiring any USC's? Not a one I'm sure.

                          Instead, they are taking advantage of their non-payment of tax status to undermine and undercut legitimate business which hurts our economy and our people. CIR at this stage should focus on bringing legitimacy and enforcement to the current system. Not opening the flood gates to more of what we don't need. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          Davdah, the tax system, nor the legal system, does not work that way. Just because one may violates one aspect of the law does not mean they violate all aspects of the law. If that is the case, anytime you speed then your rental business is an illegal business.
                          "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
                            Yes, Comprehensive Immigration Reform should not have anything to do with making illegal person a legal. Say no to Comprehesive Immigration REWARD.

                            This has been the problem. Make the necessary changes to immigration policy that will reduce wait times, put fairness in the code etc.

                            These changes could have been made long ago, or back in 2007 if only they would take out the wording about illegals/undocumented amnesty. Let the amnesty program fall seperate so that the reforms can be made to the current policy. Stop letting io legal/amnesty desires to keep killing the passage of CIR. This would be fair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                            It is an admirable notion, But to make the wait times shorter, you would either have to increase staff three or four times, you will have to increase the number of visas to allow one to enter, and you would have to pay for it by either raising taxes , increasing the immigration fees (which will defeat the purpose entirely) and/or cutting services somewhere else. It is admirable, but there is no magic answer to immigration reform unless the economies improve worldwide and become close to par with the industrialized nations.

                            the other problem you have is that you cannot force 12 to 20 million illegals home. Paying their flights, or setting up fences will not help much except deter the casual border jumper. However, if you insist on this, perhaps you want to violate the Constittuion itself.
                            "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                              Did you give up your earthly belongings and follow him? Did you sell your things and donate them to the poor? Did you feed your neighbor when they were hungry? Give them something to drink? I doubt it. Those commandments were not given to a nation. They were given to us individually. Lead by example. Otherwise you are a hypocrite. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                              Apparently, you have not lol
                              "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                              Comment



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