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  • Free Healthcare Means........

    More bureaucrats, not more health care workers. Thanks Brit and Sprintie. How is your free healthare working out?

  • #3
    Like the number of managers and admin staff is smaller in private healthcare
    You'd rather pay a private company to tell you can't have that procedure or that you don't qualify for insurance.

    The pair of you are scaremongers. Wait and see. When people realize the benefits outweigh the negatives what are the Repubs gonna do? Repeal and replace it...with what??? The old system which was hardly a paragon of efficiency or some so-called "start over" program. The Repubs are gonna have their work cut out explaining how we really need pre-existing conditions back again and that having 47m+ uninsured is really a good thing LOL
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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    • #4
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Plus the fact our system was considered the best in the world </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      By whom and by what standard?

      This is not a Government takeover. It's still largely private business run with government subsidies for those who can't afford it. Surely that is helping ALL Americans not just certain sections of society? Hardly a socialist takeover.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Maybe you don't care coming from a near serfdom lifestyle. It's what you're used to. I do care, and this isn't what my country is about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Much like Hudson, I've had it with you davdah. He's right. Your arrogant with a morally superior air about you. This is MY country too and I believe there are better ways to run healthcare FOR ALL than the mess it currently is. This new law is a step in the right direction. My vote counts too.
      "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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      • #5
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> What you believe is a byproduct of the government thinking you brought with you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Just proved your arrogance again. Arrogance to assume. THat is one of America's problems. Too much arrogance and an assumption that we are "the greatest country on earth". That the rest of the world has it wrong and we are the only ones who have it right. The Romans thought that and look what happened to them.

        THat is the difference. UK and Europe have had their wars in the past and yes they were arrogant but they have learned being arrogant with a gunboat diplomacy policy doesn't work. After WW2 Germany vowed never again yet they have become a powerful and prosperous country once again without resorting to Nationalism and extreme unabated capitalism. It can be done. There are other ways if only we would shake off the blinkers of arrogance.
        "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

        Comment


        • #6
          Got problems paying for your healthcare. Well Republican candidate Sue Lowden for the Nevada State Senate has the answer. Just offer your doctor a chicken LOL I kid you not...

          Pay medical bills with a chicken, says Republican candidate

          Sue Lowden, the Republican front-runner to win a Senate seat in Nevada, says chickens make great health insurance

          Meet Republican politician Sue Lowden, a wealthy casino owner. According to recent opinion polls, she's likely to be the next US Senator from the state of Nevada, thanks to a double-digit lead over the Democratic incumbent Harry Reid. At least, she was the main contender for Reid's seat – until she started propounding her chicken-based healthcare plan.

          On Monday Lowden appeared on a local TV programme, where she was asked about a mildly eccentric suggestion she had made that patients should haggle and barter with their doctors to save money on their medical bills. As you can see from the video clip above, she replied:

          "You know, before we all started having health care, in the olden days, our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor. They would say I'll paint your house.... In the old days that's what people would do to get health care with their doctors. Doctors are very sympathetic people. I'm not backing down from that system."

          Watch the video

          Obviously she likes to play chicken in her bid to become a Senator...which looks to be fading fast. Maybe she's been taking lessons from ex-Republican Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin on how to go cold turkey.
          "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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          • #7
            She actually has a valid point. Haggling and bartering is a useful tool used often in days of old, and still being used today, particularly in poorer communities. This is just typical spin-doctoring by Reid's staff - ironic considering how many of his ridiculous gaffes are made light of.

            BTW, Brit, I can tell you that Nevadans would vote for the chicken and goat that gReid's moronic staff took to Lowden's office before they'd vote for him again.
            **************************************
            The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch

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            • #8
              Those opposing the bill will certainly agree with it once they're slapped with a life-threatening illness that requires an expensive operation.

              And no, I don't accept chickens as a means of payment for surgery. Should I ask med-school creditors to do the same? I doubt they'll say yes.
              "A candle loses absolutely nothing by lighting another candle"

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              • #9
                I love it how when it's the opposition, it's a literal statement. When it's your side, they never meant it the way they said it ...

                Lowden used a real-world example of something that actually used to occur. And while Okalian (a real doctor, or a default avatar pic?) may not take chickens, I do know plenty of people who do accept some forms of barter in return for services - my employer, for example, trades his professional services in return for reduced dental care.

                Again, it hasn't hurt her in the polls here in NV. But like I said ... Nevadans are sick of Reid and would vote for the chicken and the goat if they were the only other contenders.
                **************************************
                The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch

                Comment


                • #10
                  Aroha, in this day and age should we have to resort to bartering for your healthcare costs?? In a country which prides itself on being modern and progressive, wouldn't this be a step backwards? Do people barter for healthcare costs in NZ? No because like UK it's mainly paid for through taxation. Why does Sue Lowden feel Nevadans should have to barter??

                  Since discounting is a way of life for insurance companies, shouldn't the same principle be applied to those without insurance...without having to resort to bargaining, bartering offering chickens or what-have-you?

                  A few years ago, the same charge was made about some hospitals and doctors because they were giving big discounts to those with insurance but an un-insured person paid the full cost:

                  Hospitals Charge Uninsured and “Self-Pay” Patients More than Double What Insured Patients Pay

                  I can't believe you take this woman seriously.
                  "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Hey, I didn't say I'd vote for her. Simply that it hasn't hurt her in the polls and that Reid's days are numbered. Nevada is sick of him and it's even destroying his son's chances at a political career. Rory is running for governor and polling extremely low simply because of who his father is.

                    I also said that the comment regarding chickens has been blown out of proportion and taken a little out of context. In all honesty though, it's not such a silly idea, even more so because of what you stated - there's nothing to offset the costs of healthcare so if you can haggle or barter it down to a more reasonable number, why not? People did it in the old days and people still do it today, whether you want to admit it or not.

                    Glad you mentioned the taxation thing too. GST has just gone up to 15% in New Zealand and the tax rate is about to be raised as well. For all but the lowest income earners (less than 14k per year), it's currently anywhere between 21% and 38%. Depending how much you earn, with GST factored in, you automatically lose between 1/4 and 1/2 of your income. For all that, you're still paying $50 plus a pop to visit a GP and waiting years for non-urgent surgery, rarely see the same provider twice because of difficulty retaining staff, and God forbid you require emergency care during one of the frequent doctor or nurses strike. Now, I know that the system in the US is broken, but the one in NZ (and the UK) is hardly what the US should aspire to, quite frankly.
                    **************************************
                    The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I also said that the comment regarding chickens has been blown out of proportion and taken a little out of context. In all honesty though, it's not such a silly idea, even more so because of what you stated - there's nothing to offset the costs of healthcare so if you can haggle or barter it down to a more reasonable number, why not? People did it in the old days and people still do it today, whether you want to admit it or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Exactly. There's nothing wrong with it but what a way for the world's most advanced nation to carry on. A system in which one has to haggle much like in an Egyptian marketplace. It's hardly progress more like turning the clock back to another time and place. It also doesn't address the root problem and that is why is the cost so high in the first place? The report I linked mentions that haggling back in the "good old days" was easier because the cost was so much less.

                      Seems to me Sue Lowden wants to maintain the Status Quo.
                      "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Yes, haggling in the old days was easier, but that doesn't mean people don't do it today. I agree that it's not ideal, but idealism isn't reality and right now, the reality is that if you don't have insurance or aren't covered for something, haggling/bartering isn't such a stupid idea.

                        The complex I work in has 2 doctors and a dentist. I already know the dentist and my employer have an arrangement and one of the doctors has a few patients that offer their services in return for reduced costs. With the economy and the unemployment rate, she said it makes good sense and so long as the arrangement works for everyone involved and nobody is being taken advantage of, she's more than happy to do it.

                        On a side note, thank goodness work is quiet today so I can actually talk to customers! LOL.
                        **************************************
                        The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          She also said that she still expects it to be bartering and haggling even after health care reform takes effect, particularly for immigrants (both legal and illegal) and others who still won't qualify under the plan.
                          **************************************
                          The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aroha:
                            Yes, haggling in the old days was easier, but that doesn't mean people don't do it today. I agree that it's not ideal, but idealism isn't reality and right now, the reality is that if you don't have insurance or aren't covered for something, haggling/bartering isn't such a stupid idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            But she seems to be promoting this idea as a solution to the problem. What is her long term goal for healthcare in NV? Does she have one or is it a case of the Party of No/tort reform will cure all/We don't want that nasty socialist medicine etc. I'd like to hear her real ideas for the future not just the now. I suspect you won't get it because her short term aim is to oust Harry Reid and what easier way than to play the Tea-Partier role.

                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">She also said that she still expects it to be bartering and haggling even after health care reform takes effect, particularly for immigrants (both legal and illegal) and others who still won't qualify under the plan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Of course since the plan doesn't cover all. The only way to do that is by a single-payer system which the plan isn't to appease the naysayers.
                            "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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