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GOP’s Mishandling of Immigration Could Hurt Party in November

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  • #16
    In most every religion life begins at conception.
    Medically is doesn't. That's the problem. You want to impose your religious beliefs on others ie. anti-abortion and contraception. I'm not religious and I don't want a Theocracy in the USA.

    Again, nothing has been changed. There is no "war on Religion" You are free to practice whatever religion you want and I am free not to exercise my right not to.
    "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

    Comment


    • #17
      Medically it doesn't? The medical community would disagree with your wishful thinking.

      When does life begin then? On what hour or minute is the switch thrown that delineates life from, say, that of a rock.

      What your trying to say is, when does that life have a right to continue existing. You and many like you would argue it's up to a third party carrying it. That argument is losing favor with advances in science showing that even at a couple weeks, it's definitely more than just a simple 'tissue mass' as the abortion crowd likes to claim. Or, that it can't exist on it's own so shouldn't have any rights per se. Well, a newborn would certainly die as well if it were left to fend for itself. For that matter, so would you without the government handout you exist on.

      Were you aware that the justices who voted in favor of Rowe V Wade have since changed their minds?
      This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by davdah:
        Still got it wrong. The police officer testified that the accused admitted to him that he grabbed the victim. Of course after consulting with his attorney he recanted that admission. The officer's testimony was ignored as well. There was another witness who wasn't allowed to testify at all.

        With Christians they tend to accept secular leadership. There are fringe exceptions but overall it's been a good working relationship for the past few hundred years. With islam there is no compromise. It's either all sharia or your head is removed. Cut and dry.

        With regard to the candidates you glossed over the actual numbers. More people were deported under obama than anyone else. You're speculating at what the GOP might have in mind to do since they haven't done anything. The facts are what exist and what happened. Facts are not what people can twist campaign stumping into. Not even when the current administration said they would make reform a thing done within the first 90 days. Stick with what really happened. He lied, lied some more, and did just the opposite.

        When under republican leadership, anytime there was an ICE raid or any actual immigration enforcement the left was in a tizzy screaming for the raids to stop. The excuses and hand-ringing were at their peak. Now that obama is doing what the left feared of the right, justifications abound. The people tossed weren't isolated to the most deviant criminal types. They were as random as any group of people assembled. It's just that these were assembled in those subcontracted prisons you have a distaste for. With Obama's picture hanging up on the entry way wall of course.
        No, davdah, it is you who doesn't get it.

        The case you bring up is of little interest to me except the fact that I first heard of it when watching Pat Robertson show (that guy,btw, has a smile of a horse thief from short story of Jorge Borges.In that story a criminal mastermind and a horse thief gets a band of accomplices to steal whole bunch of horses. In order to get lots of horses in one location, the
        criminal chooses a local Church. He then enters the Church and starts to preach visitors. So rousing and eloquent his talk about Jesus is that many start to cry. When critical number of horse riding Church visitors concentrate inside the building he orders them all to close teary eyes and meditate before getting back to routine. That gives him and his accomplices plenty of time to take off with lots of horses outside the building.
        Borges describes the guy as gray haired and very respectably looking swindler).

        As to actual ruling, it's either lack of evidence (cops even won't arrest you if someone says you assaulted them unless they witness it happening or there is a visible injury on your body) OR the Judge had some other motives (may have wished for the case to generate a nationwide resonance for whatever reason or may be issued his ruling out of concern for geopolitical consequences).

        Either way, the attacking Muslim was a dumba.ss and should have been taught a lesson about the Free Speech rights under the First Amendment.
        But as it stands now Pat Robertson at least must be very happy with that Muslim attacking the atheist protester, so he could air the story that makes fringe elements of your type look like reasonable people in comparison.


        Next, as far as Obama , his stance on immigration and why I support him on this. Here is short answer: because I am not stupid.

        Now, here is the longer explanation: I see Obama as a General. I see his moves as that of the commander of forces who is responsible for final outcome and sometimes must order retreat and leave the battlefield to keep his forces intact and to win the war in the long run. Because winning the war is more important than winning a battle. Obviously there are sacrifices made whenever soldiers retreat.
        Whoever is left behind will be massacred and their houses burned. But this is just how it goes. And stupid is the soldier who blames his General for trying to save the Army, even if thAt soldier be the one left behind.

        In 2008 I was one of those who was saying that Obama is not the best General to lead the troops, that we need Hillary instead as she would be a lot stronger, iron willed executive President and not the one with only Legislative credentials going for him but too many people were too excited back then and wouldn't listen.
        But today he is the General on the field who is being challenged by vultures, and I am willing to stand on his side regardless of how painful some of his decisions might be.

        Because what I see on the other side are many lunatics wishing to become Generals in order to carry out a massacre once the opposing side is fully defeated in the next elections.
        That is enough incentive to wholeheartedly support Obama, regardless of what he said, what he did and what he may or may not do if he wins the next election.

        Also keep in mind that President here doesn't have an imperial power. Especially a Democratic President in post-Reagan era of greatly diminished Democratic voter base and hugely discredited ideas and policies that Democrats were pushing for once upon a time.

        President can only do what he can do , with whatever resources and popular support he may have.

        To blame him for not being a brilliant strategist or tactician, to blame him for failing to achieve his goals and goals of those who supported him
        is, perhaps, fair. Even though situation he found himself in is very tough and difficult still a brilliant strategist would always find a way to charge his way forward.
        However, to blame him of being an evil spirited man, mean and willing to destroy his country, his constituents or any vulnerable group of people present here is to arrogantly assume that ears where such allegations fall into are placed on windful head. I assure you that mine doesn't belong to such category.

        Comment


        • #19
          You see him as a general. You're in the wrong department of government. Immigration is not a military issue.

          The president of the U.S. wields more power than any other person in the world. This one in particular had unquestioned agreement and vast support for just about anything put forward. He was given a Nobel prize for what they thought he would do! What happened with this inflated status? Not much.

          Offering up diluted authority and excuse after excuse for his inaction, lack of direction, or ability to follow through reflects him, not the office.
          This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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          • #20
            davdah, what is the point you are trying to make?

            I have already addressed the ones you brought up so far.

            Comment


            • #21
              Offering up diluted authority and excuse after excuse for his inaction, lack of direction, or ability to follow through reflects him, not the office.
              I guess it wasn't Obama who authorized the Navy SEALs mission to kill OBL or get the Repubs to back down from their opposition to the payroll tax cut? I must have been dreaming all this time.
              "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

              Comment


              • #22
                E. Point is, your making reference to the right as this group of evil doers plotting to unleash mayhem the likes the world has never seen based on imagination. I don't get it. Not when the facts show otherwise.

                BTW, the cop testified to the fact that the perp admitted to him at the scene that he grabbed the victim. That alone would have resulted in a conviction in any normal proceeding. How you can take a simple facial expression and turn it into an entire personality characterization is dumbfounding. A horse thief because he smiled a certain way? Is that a Jedi mind trick?

                Brit, go back to sleep.
                This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by davdah:
                  E. Point is, your making reference to the right as this group of evil doers plotting to unleash mayhem the likes the world has never seen based on imagination. I don't get it. Not when the facts show otherwise.
                  What facts are you talking about? Joe Arpaio? Mrs Brewer? Kobach? Or well known candidates who can't repeat enough times how much they support
                  all those policies and practices that take place in Arizona and Alabama?
                  Is it something that exists in my imagination, is that cartoonish character Joe Arpaio, whom some in your camp now emulate so much, is just a Disney production to look at?


                  BTW, the cop testified to the fact that the perp admitted to him at the scene that he grabbed the victim. That alone would have resulted in a conviction in any normal proceeding. How you can take a simple facial expression and turn it into an entire personality characterization is dumbfounding. A horse thief because he smiled a certain way? Is that a Jedi mind trick?
                  I don't care about that case, except that the guy who wore Halloween costume and thrashed prophet of dimwits had every right under the US Constitution to walk through the parade as he wished. That is the right we all have here and any challenge to it should be taken seriously.
                  I don't have time to get into specifics of the court case you cited (I usually read and study immigration related rulings, from BIA, Fed. Appeals and EOIR courts. I do not spend much time reading criminal cases and transcripts).

                  As to Pat, it is not just his smile that qualifies him as trickster. As we all know he claimed to have been a veteran of Korean war and boasted of being awarded 4 medals for bravery in action. He was challenged by Republican ex-Congressman, who also participated in Korean war. According to that challenger Pat spent most of his time in Japan , making sure the officers club had enough liquor supply.
                  Pat later sued that congressman (in late 80s) for libel but , oh surprise, dropped the suit shortly thereafter PAYING the court costs of defendant.
                  Now, if that's not enough to show true character of a man then I don't know what is.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The facts are the fact there aren't any to support your notion of the right.

                    One sheriff in one insignificant town where they are overrun with illegals is by no means the standard. What did Mitt do in his state? Are there prisons on every corner filled to capacity with illegals? Are neighbors rating out neighbors to the state? Is everyone compelled to wear the same drab grey uniform and march lock step? None of the above.

                    What is comical is seeing all the left's promises of utopia being exposed for what they are, lies told by liars.
                    This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by davdah:
                      The facts are the fact there aren't any to support your notion of the right.
                      One sheriff in one insignificant town where they are overrun with illegals is by no means the standard. What did Mitt do in his state? Are there prisons on every corner filled to capacity with illegals? Are neighbors rating out neighbors to the state? Is everyone compelled to wear the same drab grey uniform and march lock step? None of the above.
                      What is comical is seeing all the left's promises of utopia being exposed for what they are, lies told by liars.
                      One sheriff in one (by no means an insignificant) town may not be the standard , but how you treat that sheriff tells volumes about what your policy is or would be had you been given a controlling power.

                      You telling "lying liars on the left tell lies" doesn't cut it in light of you not being able to sustain your own position or challenge on factual basis the arguments and counter-points made in the discussion.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        By who's treatment? Doesn't Obama have the power to unseat him? How about the state of AZ or it's legislature?

                        It says nothing about republican policy. Perhaps it does more so of the left who have the authority to do something about it and don't. This focus on hyperbole does nothing but distract from the reality of results of those in power.

                        Present some facts that have connecting dots and are supported by the efforts of those in leadership, able to act, and accused of being mullahs, nazis, talibans, or little green men. Not opinions based on suspicions. Where are Mitt's prison camps full of illegals? How about Rick? Where's his?
                        This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by davdah:
                          By who's treatment? Doesn't Obama have the power to unseat him? How about the state of AZ or it's legislature?

                          It says nothing about republican policy. Perhaps it does more so of the left who have the authority to do something about it and don't. This focus on hyperbole does nothing but distract from the reality of results of those in power.

                          Present some facts that have connecting dots and are supported by the efforts of those in leadership, able to act, and accused of being mullahs, nazis, talibans, or little green men. Not opinions based on suspicions. Where are Mitt's prison camps full of illegals? How about Rick? Where's his?
                          No, Obama is not Caligula or Cyrus, he can't order Arpaio out of the elected office. But he did subpoena and send DOJ to AZ to find out wrongdoings of Arpaio.
                          You bet Arpaio would do a lot more damage and with greater impunity if Obama's DOJ wasn't checking and balancing his antics.
                          And many more would follow the trend by now.

                          You can ignore glaring facts, but I choose not to.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            If Obama wanted Sheriff Joe out he could do it in one day. Your saying Joe would be apt to commit so many more transgressions if it weren't for the democrats who you say can't do anything about him. He's been sheriff since 93. That makes zero sense.

                            How can you legitimately condemn one and then glorify another for restraining the alleged villain when there hasn't been any action on either side? Neither point is valid.
                            This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by davdah:
                              If Obama wanted Sheriff Joe out he could do it in one day. Your saying Joe would be apt to commit so many more transgressions if it weren't for the democrats who you say can't do anything about him. He's been sheriff since 93. That makes zero sense.

                              How can you legitimately condemn one and then glorify another for restraining the alleged villain when there hasn't been any action on either side? Neither point is valid.
                              Obama didn't appoint sheriff Arpaio, Joe was voted into sheriffs' office. How can Obama remove Arpaio from office where latter
                              got appointed by constituents? The only thing Obama can do is to find out if Arpaio is breaking Federal laws while pretending to be
                              assisting to uphold the same.
                              From what we can observe, Obama did what he was in power to do: he probed, subpoenaed and kept constant heat on Arpaio.
                              Obama can't do more than that unless provable criminal wrongdoing of Arpaio is brought against latter in Court that convicts and declares Arpaio
                              a felon (at which point he would be forced out of office and to serve time in prison). Until thAt happens, Arpaio may stay on his
                              post. And DOJ is still investigating Arpaio and collecting evidence against him. But Joe surely would do a lot more damage than he lately was doing if not for DOJ keeping him busy hiding his emails and answering the allegations of numerous breaches of Federal Laws, Statutes and Constitution.
                              To not give Obama credit for this is to be blindfolded or to deliberately ignore the facts.

                              On other other hand we have candidates who promise to support Arpaio implemented measures all over the US as soon as they succeed
                              in getting Obama out of WH.

                              How stupid one must be not to realize the difference between Obama and his challengers' on this issue?
                              The difference that speaks in FAVOR of Obama unless you support a Holocaust of sorts for 20 million
                              undocumented people here, among whom are elderly, ill or in US since being toddlers.

                              It is clear that you, as many opponents of Obama, are supportive of those Cambodian Khmere Rouge like draconian measures aimed at utter
                              annihilation of defenseless people, while Obama and his backers oppose such measures.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                You do realize that 90% of what's on TV or radio is hype and maybe 10% factual? There is no need to keep wearing that tin foil hat. Really, there isn't.
                                This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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