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    Sweet Madame Belu

  • #2
    BUSTED

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    • #3
      Swissnutm
      Jo is back in full swing, making up for the lost time.

      I hope you did not believe her when she said she was going. I doubt Josephine can live without ILW.

      I want her here though, she gives us something to talk about, good or bad.

      Comment


      • #4
        what are you sorry for Jo?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi everybody ,

          One day off and I see dramas over here... I know u all have personal issues and u all are very angry that u will crush anyone who comes on ur way including me... but I want to tell something... I am not going into ur personal issues at all so plz don't misunderstand me.... But this is not a fair thing at all... I m not talking about other things / personal issues ...so keep me out of that... and I don't want to debate either on this furthermore from tomorrow... but as I read this one...I want to say something...

          I don't think that is SAMMY in that thread at all...it cant be... that's a old thread from 2002 and I guess there was no registration so anyone can get any name...just like when irritated2 attacked and there were doing some changes with board...people could get any ID they want... didn't we see 2 pasha ...exact id...2 jo...2 swiss.... on that night when irritated2 was changing ids quickly ... same thing back in 2002 I guess... other thing there is no match of writing style of that sammy (2002) and SAMMY... SAMMY's replies are very long and the other guy just wrote questions in short... and I wonder why would sammy(2002) ask certain questions if he was the SAMMY...SAMMY has given detailed answers on lots of questions including the ones sammy(2002) asked... so I don't think he is the same guy... that's the big mistake here if u r thinking ... look at the grammar of sammy (2002) ..lots of mistakes... there is no way SAMMY can improve the whole style of writing, grammar and gain this much detailed knowledge in almost every field of immigration in just one year...there is no way.... So I don't believe that sammy(2002) is SAMMY... no comments on other personal issues...

          U r all my friends and I don't want to argue at all... as I read this thread I thought I must write this what I feel... I am not offending anyone here once again...ur all same to me... Have a great day everyone...Pasha

          Comment


          • #6
            Sammy:
            Don't try to involve me in any argument you have with Jo. I have steered clear of you since February - for obvious reasons. It is no secret that Jo and I have not seen eye to eye at all in recent months. For the most part, the acrimony was due to the fact that I see you in a completely different light, and have stated it openly and under my sole swissnut ID.

            You have been helpful on this board, and many acknowledge that. But being helpful and then exepecting people to excuse the outrageous activities you engage in, just because you have been helpful, is absurd.

            Frankly, any "friend" as you claim you have been to Jo, who could post such insulting and personal information about her, as you have above, is a sorry excuse for a person, let alone a friend, in my opinion. Regardless of what issues I have with Jo, I see the hypocrite you are. You show no gratitude for her support of you, in fact you attempt now to discredit her. That is despicable in my book. Not that my opinion matters at all.


            Let's just say that this is another area where you and I are diametrically opposed. I reserve the term "friend" for a very select few (they know who they are). People, who I have stayed close to for a long time, and for whom I have been supportive, who are consistent, reasonable, kind and have other very particular positive character traits.

            My issue with you, clearly stated above, was to do with your "swissnut-t" posts on the DBA thread in April.

            However, now I find it rather odd that all the voluminous posts from Molly777 and Nina777 insulting others, but principally me, are gone. Vanished, just like that. Perhaps, as you say, you reserve your revered SAMMY ID for noble tasks (although today's display hardly qualifies), and the colourful characters are introduced to do your "grunt" work and try to discredit others. I guess they are gone because they accomplished your task.

            Comment


            • #7
              Good morning dear Jo ,

              U don't need to say sorry as I already told u that I don't feel bad at all whatever u say...I was just wondering abt ur comment but nothing else .... So please never mind...Lol...u know..i was/am not lying but sponge bob is really my favorite cartoon no matter what Micahel / Depo Man has/have to say abt it .... I don't miss episodes when I have time to watch it....abt mermaid man and barnacle boy, Sandy, Patrick star fish, Mr. Crab....crusty crab( all those patties) ...bikini bottom, Mrs. Puff's Boating School, Larry, Gary snail in race and of course Squidward ...lol... . I do like this cartoon...another favorite one is Jimmy Neutron...

              By the way if u don't mind if I may ask u guys something...can u guys please solve the personal issues out of ILW Plz ? no offense to anyone at all ... u all have been a wonderful person here...you (jo ) were a wonderful person with good heart...u always gave us something interesting and informative, Sammy helped a lot of people over here and was a great help in immigration related questions, Irritated was great to talk to and an intelligent human being, Swissnut gave an excellent opportunity to learn more abt I 751..without her we couldn't learn this much abt I 751 and still of course good no doubt abt it...

              Its not necessary to bring it all down here ... plz all don't take my reply in a wrong way... just let it calm down if its possible.... No need to dig old graves... whatever happened is already past...we cant do anything abt it...it already happened... I do hope u guys don't take my reply in a wrong way and forget abt everything though its easy for me to say but hard for others to do...but I hope u guys will al least try to do so...I really wish there would be no debate on this one...plz have that courtesy and keep in mind that I m not offending anyone here at all....Have a great day to everyone...Pasha

              Comment


              • #8
                Sammy:

                I am braced for your typical "comeback" - so I suggest you reserve your comments. That said, I have figured you out - including your technique. You edit and re-edit the same post, so that it "appears" you have gone, but all the while you are getting your various answers and point across to everyone. Good try! But, one doesn't have to be a Crime Profiler to see a pattern develop.

                Speaking of patterns, why is it that anyone you do not respect, suddenly becomes l-e-s-b-i-a-n- or b-i-s-e-x-u-a-l or g-a-y? It was accusations like this, about someone I cared for, that prompted me to address a post directly to you in late January 2004. Yes, that's right...you threw the first stone.

                Just for the record:
                1. I am COMPLETELY h-e-t-e-r-o-s-e-x-u-a-l
                2. I am not Jo's buddy, though I accept apologies and contrition from all people, unlike you. For the past 6 months, I had no contact with Jo, other than on this board, despite what you claim
                3. If one deletes a post it is because it is not longer germane. A facility available to all.
                4. If you post and run, (your typical technique)how on earth can anyone address you directly?
                4. As a former attorney, you should know that a "Default Judgment" does not occur when the party has no opportunity to "answer". Default is when the party "refuses" to answer.

                Judgment rendered: Defendant is in "Default": Court adjourned!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Feel the love anyone? Come on people it's a board, why make it personal?. No one wants to be at default anyway.

                  Arguments on the internet is like the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard

                  P.S:Some people do have way too much time on their hands. How about doing a PHd thesis instead of who is who or who is always right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    HATE & ANGER WILL MAKE YOU A SLAVE !

                    While visiting a park, Dale Carnegie observed a grizzly bear eating with a skunk. The grizzly allowed no other animal to eat with him. Although he resented the skunk, the bear would not pick a fight with him. He had no doubt learned the high cost of getting even.

                    Jesus Christ gave us a very valuable lesson when He said, "If someone sues you for your jacket, give him your coat also. If he compels you to walk one mile, go with him two". (Matt. 5:41)
                    It's not always worth a battle to gain our so-called rights. We must determine if the issue is important enough to risk our peace of mind, health and general well-being. It's possible to win a battle and lose the war! There are times it is far better to walk away from a fight, even if it means we have to eat humble pie.
                    Jesus also said, "Love your enemies, pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you". (Matt. 5:44) The law of Moses was more rigid, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". (Ex. 21:24)
                    Sometimes it is far better, however, to walk the extra mile, turn the other cheek, or give away a jacket or overcoat, than to end up with a bad case of nerves, ulcers or sleepless nights!

                    LOVE IS THE SOLUTION TO MANY ILLS

                    In the past, some have criticized the advice that Jesus Christ gave about loving our enemies as impractical and unrealistic, but psychiatrists are now recommending it as a solution for many ills!

                    The Ayatolleh Khoemeni was wrong when he said: "Like Moses, Jesus the Blessed would have picked up a sword, had He lived longer." Our Lord Jesus said: "...for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matt.26:52)
                    Napoleon Bonaparte correctly stated: "I see in Lycurgus, Numa, and Muhammed only legislators who, having the first rank in the state, have sought the best solution of the social problem, but I see nothing there which reveals divinity...
                    "You speak of Caesar, of Alexander, of their conquests, and of the enthusiasm they enkindled in the hearts of their soldiers; but can you conceive of a dead man making conquests with an army faithful and entirely devoted to his memory? My armies have forgotten me, even while living, as the Carthaginian army forgot Hannibal. Such is our power!
                    "Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! Jesus Christ alone founded His Empire upon love; and, at this hour, millions of men would die for Him."
                    St. Paul stated: "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink...Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." (Rom.12: 20-21) The Holy Spirit taught him the real values of life! He was a self-righteous Pharisee who thought he was doing God's will by imprisoning and killing Christians. Then he met Jesus on the Damascus Road. He was converted and received a new spirit and world - view!
                    Booker T. Washington, a black American who became famous in spite of prejudices against his colour and who was insulted on numerous occasions, wrote, "I will not let any man reduce my soul to the level of hatred".
                    The famous physiologist Dr. John Hunter, knew what anger could do to his heart. "The first scoundrel that gets me angry will kill me", he stated.
                    Sometime later, at a medical meeting, a co-worker made assertions that incensed Hunter. As he stood up and bitterly attacked the speaker, his anger caused such a contraction of the blood vessels in his heart that he fell dead!

                    In his book, ˜None of These Diseases' Dr. S.I. McMillen relates numerous accounts like the above, which prove that powerful negative emotions can make you sick and even cause death!
                    HATRED HOLDS YOU CAPTIVE!

                    According to medical researchers, verbal expressions of animosity toward others call forth certain hormones from the pituitary, adrenal, thyroid and other glands, an excess of which can cause disease in any part of the body.

                    Says McMillen, "The minute you begin hating someone, you become his slave. Hatred holds you captive and robs you of peace of mind, and your time is spent recounting unpleasant situations. Your enemy consumes your every waking moment and hatred holds your mind hostage."
                    You are tormented by the demons of hatred, jealousy and envy. Your only desire is for revenge. It isn't worth it; let it go! Release the hatred, bitterness and resentment, and the healing powers within you will begin to function.

                    King Solomon stated, that it is better to be served a dish of vegetables with love, than to have the best beef served with hatred. (Prov. 15:17)

                    Internationally known psychiatrist, Alfred Adler, wrote, "The most important task imposed by religion has always been, ˜Love Thy Neighbour'. It is the individual who is not interested in his fellowman, who has the greatest difficulties in life and provides the greatest injury to others. It is from such individuals that all human failures spring".
                    RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SIN & SICKNESS!

                    Shakespeare saw the relationship between sin and disease. It was the memory of Duncan's murder that produced psychosomatic overtones in Lady MacBeth. When MacBeth asked the physician about her illness, he replied:
                    "Not so sick, my Lord. As she is troubled with thick coming fancies that keep her from rest." Then the doctor asked:
                    "Canst thou not minister to mind diseas'd, Pluck from the memory a rooted sorrow,
                    Raze out the written troubles of the brain,
                    And with some sweet oblivious antidote
                    Cleanse the stuff'd bosom of that perilous stuff
                    Which weights upon the heart?"
                    A French proverb says, "There is no pillow as soft as a clear conscience". And psychologist Henry C. Link stated, "The emphasis on sin has largely disappeared from the teaching of religion...at the very time when psychology has discovered its importance and extended its meanings".
                    The Bible says: "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sins. If we confess our sins (to God) He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1: 7-9) What an opportunity to be forgiven and healed at the same time!
                    Let us take a lesson from the grizzly bear and learn to avoid strife wherever possible! In a complex world, we must learn to co-exist, remembering the Scripture that says, "If it possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men". (Rom. 12:18)
                    In my opinion, Dr. S.I. McMillen's book is one of the greatest ever written, by a physician who - like Dr. David Livingstone - spent years on the Mission field ministering to the many needs of the poor and neglected masses there!

                    @

                    Are you sure you've never hurt anyone? Have you considered the things you speak to others? Jesus warns in Matthew 5:21-22 that even being unjustly angry with someone puts you in danger of judgment. Also, how many people have you hurt because of things you failed to do?
                    Are you sure you've never hurt anyone? Have you considered the things you speak to others? Jesus warns in Matthew 5:21-22 that even being unjustly angry with someone puts you in danger of judgment. Also, how many people have you hurt because of thing

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sammy:
                      There is no difference between deleting a post or changing the entire content of a post. Either way, the original statement is gone.

                      Surely you knew that when the court receives a motion for default, the defaulting party is served a notice, giving him a certain number of days to respond. He has an opportunity, in such an instance to request that the Default be Set Aside. To set aside a Default, one needs to show "good cause" for failing to respond in time and demonstrate a "meritorius defense". An answer to the original complaint is also necessary. Evidently, in your case, you failed to check your mail box or failed to exercise your right to petition the court to set it aside.

                      Most of your post does not dignify a response, other than to say that on a forum like this, the anonymous nature of the personalities gives rise, naturally, to "SPECULATION". In your case, you seem to prefer "ACCUSATION". There is a vast difference between the two.

                      Once again, I may disagree on occasion with people, that is natural, but I work through disagreements, and never hold a grudge. Naturally, this can only be done with willing participants. I am not an enemy to anyone. Now, whether or not you choose to be, is of course your prerogative.


                      Thanks for the lecture of the difference between Love and Romance. Though, being a deeply passionate person, I am accutely aware of what real love is. As to which type of Romantic Style I have, from your list of 1- 13, well, let's just say, "sorry, but you'll never know".

                      Toodle-oo!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No less than 7 references to me in his post. Oh, nice to see that things never change around here. Talk about being obsessed with me...

                        Thanks for the email tingal, carhardt, and funny cide. Will write when I get a chance.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE MENTALLY DISTURBED!

                          :: THE WAY TO PEACE::

                          Do we benefit from different culture?

                          The Upanishads of the seventh and sixth centuries BC are mystical writings of the seers (rishis) of ancient lndia who practiced yoga to attain conscious union with God. They taught that the soul (atman) is the same essence as God (Brahma), eternal and immortal. The soul incarnates in the world of appearance or illusion and is responsible for the consequences of its actions (karma). The soul continues to reincarnate until the consciousness re-awakens to its inherent divinity and is liberated from the wheel of rebirth. The knowledge that the true self (atman) is a part of God is a psycho-logical liberation, and the awareness of one's own immortality frees one from the fear of death and brings a feeling of eternal peace. As the Jews often use the word for Peace (shalom) as a greeting, the Hindus often conclude their prayers with peace (shanti). The Maitri Upanishad describes the way of meditating on sound by which one ascends to non-sound resulting in complete union and also peaceful-ness. India has a long tradition of its mystics who renounce the world and go off to find internal peace and liberation. In a transcen-dental sense it is believed that if one person finds eternal peace and spiritual liberation the entire world is spiritually benefited.


                          One such person was Nataputta Vardhamana (599-527 BC) who was given the name Mahavira which means "Great Hero." As the historical reformer of the Jain religion, the Jains believe Mahavira to be the twenty-fourth and last of the great teachers. Mahavira made ahimsa the essential principle of the religion. Ahimsa has been translated as "non-violence," but it literally means not hurting or not harming. Mahavira was the younger son of a local king and was brought up amidst luxury. He married and had a daughter. After his parents died of voluntary starvation, at the age of thirty he gained his older brother's consent (after a year of waiting for it) to leave the palace, give away all his possessions, and retire from the world. He joined a monastery, limited himself to one garment, and pulled out his hair in five handfuls. The Akaranga Sutra describes his discipline:

                          Neglecting his body,
                          the venerable ascetic Mahavira meditated on his soul,
                          in blameless lodgings, in blameless wandering,
                          in restraint, kindness, avoidance of sinful influence,
                          chaste life, in patience, freedom from passion, contentment;
                          control, circumspection, practicing religious postures and acts;
                          walking the path of nirvana and liberation,
                          which is the fruit of good conduct.
                          Living thus he with equanimity
                          bore, endured, sustained, and suffered
                          all calamities arising from divine powers, men, and animals,
                          with undisturbed and unafflicted mind,
                          careful of body, speech, and mind.

                          After a few months he threw away the robe and left the monastery to wander naked through the plains and villages of central India. Not wanting to become attached to any place or person he never stayed more than one day in a village or more than five days in a city, except during the rainy season when he did not want to tread on paths that were teeming with life. He took asceticism and ahimsa to their extreme limits. He completely disregarded his body, staying in the cold winter shade and the hot summer sun; even when people physically beat him he paid no attention. He was extraordinarily careful not to injure any form of life while walking or sitting. He strained the water he drank and ate only left-over food that had been prepared for others and had no germinating life in it.

                          After twelve years of practicing these austerities he became liberated and free of all attachment to the world. Then he taught others for thirty years before he passed out of the world. He emphasized the five great vows: 1) ahimsa or non-killing and non-injury, 2) non-lying or speaking only the truth, 3) non-taking or not stealing or being greedy in even its subtlest forms, 4) celibacy and renunciation of all sensual pleasures, and 5) non-attachment or not being delighted or disturbed by any outward experience. These disciplines were later incorporated into the preliminary step of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the classical text of yoga.

                          Certainly one cannot expect everyone to become as ascetic the extreme Mahavira, but he demonstrated its effectiveness Ahimsa is a cardinal principle in the way of peace, and non-injury is well supported by the self-disciplines which control Iying, stealing, greed, lust, and attachment. For people to be at pea with each other, such self-restraint is essential.


                          Siddartha Gautama (563-483 BC) was also born as a prince in a small state in India. To prevent him from renouncing the world his father surrounded him with every luxury and removed all signs of old age, disease, death, and religious men. Gautama married and spent his time in the pleasure gardens of the palace. However, by providence the prince happened to observe on his way to the pleasure garden first an old man, then a sick man, a corpse being carried to a funeral, and finally a begging monk. Never having witnessed such sights before, Gautama began to seriously contemplate the meaning of life and its inevitable decay, suffering and death; like the monk he too must try to find a solution to these problems. Therefore he escaped from the palace and became an ascetic, as Mahavira had done. He gave up everything he had in order to beg for his food and search for enlightenment.

                          For six years he tried to mortify the flesh. Not bothering to wash, the dirt fell off of him in cakes. Fasting and eating only one seed a day he became so thin that he could grab his spinal column from the front. Finally he collapsed and was near death, but it was at this point that he realized that practicing extreme austerities was not the way to enlightenment and liberation. He had already gained five disciples; but when he went back to begging for food, they all left him. Gautama concentrated on meditation; while sitting under the Bo tree, he overcame all temptations and entered into nirvana or supreme peace. People did not know what to make of this person and inquired whether he was a god, a devil, an angel, a man, or what. Gautama replied simply, "I am awake." Thus he became known as the Buddha, which means the awakened one or the enlight-ened one.

                          Buddha based his teaching on four noble truths:
                          1) that life is painful and suffering,
                          2) that desire and attachment are what causes the pain and suffering,
                          3) that pain and suffering may be eliminated by ceasing to desire and be attached to things, and
                          4) that the way to eliminate the pain and suffering is by means of the eightfold path which is right understanding, right purpose, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right concentration, and right meditation.
                          Having experienced both the extremes of luxury and asceticism, Buddha discovered that the middle way between them was the easiest path. His common sense and acute psychological insights into the whole process of consciousness and its tendencies toward bondage enabled the Buddha to teach a universal doctrine which would work for many people. His middle path was easily accessible to everyone, and he encouraged women as well as men to follow his path of enlightenment. He demonstrated and taught what he called the fourfold infinite mind of love, compassion, rejoicing, and equanimity.

                          For fifty years he taught, and his following grew steadily. One year when there had been a drought, a dispute developed between the Sakyas and the Koliyas over the water of the Rohini River. As the conflict increased to the brink of war, the Buddha placed himself on the river bank and asked why the Sakya and Koliya princes had assembled. They replied that they were about to do battle, and he asked why. The princes were not sure, so they asked the commanders who had to ask the regent who in turn questioned the farmers on the details. The Buddha then asked them to compare the value of the water and the earth to the value of the princes and men. After a while the Buddha was able to persuade them to refrain from fighting, and thus much bloodshed was avoided.

                          The Buddha taught that one ought to give ungrudging love even to the man who foolishly does wrong to one. Such a man hearing this about the Buddha went to him and abused him. The Buddha silently pitied his folly. When the man finished, the Buddha asked him to whom a present would belong if a person refused to accept it. The man replied that it would still belong to the one who offered it. The Buddha then told the man that he could keep his abuse, and he observed what a misery it would be for the man The Buddha said to him, "A wicked man who reproaches a virtuous one is like one who looks up and spits at heaven; the spittle soils not the heaven, but comes back and defiles his own person. The slanderer is like one who flings dust at another when the wind is contrary; the dust does but return on him who threw it. The virtuous man cannot be hurt, and the misery that the other would inflict comes back on himself." The abusing man was ashamed and later became a follower of the Buddha.

                          Even when Devadatta, one of the disciples, tried to have the Buddha murdered because he had not been chosen as his successor, the Buddha harbored no resentment. The hired assassins were converted by the Buddha's loving kindness. When Devadatta caused a schism in the order, the Buddha allowed everyone to follow whom-ever they chose. Finally when Devadatta was dying and suffering the torment of his own karma, the Buddha assisted him spiritually so that in a future incarnation he would have a good opportunity to attain Buddhahood.

                          The ethical teachings of the Buddha are poetically expressed in the Dhammapada. What we are is the result of our thoughts. The person who is always complaining is full of hatred, while the person who forgives is filled with love. "Everyone trembles at punishment, everyone loves life; remember that you are like them, and do not kill nor cause slaughter." Do not speak harshly to anyone, for angry speech is painful. "Let a person overcome anger by love, let him overcome evil by good; let him overcome greed by generosity, and Iying by truth." The person who uses violence is not just; rather the just person learns and uses intelligence to distinguish right from wrong and to guide others. A good person is tolerant with the intolerant, mild with the violent, and free from greed among the greedy.

                          In the third century BC the great King Ashoka was converted to Buddhism and promoted Buddhist teachings throughout India and even sent Buddhist teachers to the rulers of Syria, Egypt, Cyrene, Macedonia, and Epirus. He financed Buddhist education and erected pillars in many places declaring his intention to practice and spread the dharma (doctrine, duty). No longer would he conquer by arms and punishments, but he would be merciful and encourage devotion. He ruled the tremendous domain of most of India and portions of Afghanistan, Sind, Kashmir, Nepal, and the lower Himalaya. During his reign there were protected wells, public granaries, medical treatment for all people and even for animals, and public servants to prevent unjust imprisonment and to help large families and the aged. Animals, birds, and forests were protected, and King Ashoka became a vegetarian and lived like a Buddhist monk even while he ruled the greatest empire of his time. Early in the Christian era Buddhism spread to China and from there to Japan and also Tibet. The Buddhist way of life has been a tremendous influence toward peace and has been the most dominant religion of the Orient.
                          Are you sure you've never hurt anyone? Have you considered the things you speak to others? Jesus warns in Matthew 5:21-22 that even being unjustly angry with someone puts you in danger of judgment. Also, how many people have you hurt because of thing

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sammy:

                            Glad to see you cleaned up your post and removed the atrocious comments you made towards Jo. As for your act of contrition, well let's just remember what Bill Clinton said, "I never had s-e-x with that woman"

                            Since you seem to be preoccupied and obsessed with "dates": Jan, 17, 2004, Feb 17, 2004, Feb 29, 2004, March 6, 2004, April 6, 2004.

                            Now as to the rest, I think the above facts state it clearly. Enough said.

                            P.S. Answer: 3,5,6,9,10,12,13.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              JO and others whoever involved in this personal vand,

                              You guys hurt him really bad, please leave him alone.by reading his(sammy) post seems you guys calling each other and IM etc..

                              If someone really need immigration help why not to be limited upto that level and show some professionalism.

                              He is one of the good guy who knows about immigration and can help millions if needed.
                              Guess people can't swallow good free advice, but can take paid bad advices and mess up.
                              Its a discussion, not a legal advise..

                              Comment



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