Someone12 reading your posts i come to this conclusion...
1. you either are a kid who pretends to be an adult
2. you have some mental issues
3. you are an idiot

why? because you are one of those "AMERICANS" who forgot how was this country built... So let me remind you that ALL OF YOU (including me)AMERICANS are immigrants in some way... Forgot the history? I love it how people forget it so fast that America was built by immigrants from all over the world... Europeans, Africans and others.. We came here killed most ohe Indians took their land , made it ours, and for hundreds of years allowed other immigrants to come here BUILD THIS **** COUNTRY WITH THEIR OWN HANDS AND SWEAT and now , SCUMBAGS LIKE YOU WHO PROBABLY sit home collecting unemployment NOT BRINGING ANYTHING TO THIS SOCIETY talk **** like that and are against other illegal immigrants become legal.. I BET THERE IS MORE THEN A MILLION IMMIGRANTS who work their asses of helping this countries ECONOMY who gave more life away for this country then YOU *******...

You know what's funny? I seriously doubt the pilgrims were "inspected", "admitted" or "paroled" or even "welcomed" by the native american. Lots of folks talk about how they've done things legally many years ago, but that conduct that once was considered legal is now rendered illegal, so if you want to talk about something you need to get the historical facts straight.

YES! Other than the natives, all of us were immigrants...our parents, grandparents or great great grandparents. Just because one is white doesn't make him more American.

quote:

Originally posted by Houston:
You know what's funny? I seriously doubt the pilgrims were "inspected", "admitted" or "paroled" or even "welcomed" by the native american. Lots of folks talk about how they've done things legally many years ago, but that conduct that once was considered legal is now rendered illegal, so if you want to talk about something you need to get the historical facts straight.

Yeah but your missing the point... America was built by immigrants... and its funny how people like SOMEONE12 offends every IMMIGRANT here.. He is an idiot.. I wonder where he came from... also I understant that some illegal immigrants should not be allowed to stay here... if you are a criminal and have bad intentions like terrorists or something, then yeah.. but there is millions of illegal immigrants who left their countries to LIVE IN THE LAND OF FREEDOM and OPPORTUNITY as AMARICAN PRESSIDENTS always stated and to have a new life, they never comited crimes and are not allowed to stay here.. its all BS.. Why did EUROPEANS run away from EUROPE to settle in US? to escape persecutions and to live in the land of freedom.. you guys forgot that? why is it that AMERICA says one thing but does the other... There are families here in US of illegal immigrants who have no other choice but stay here illegaly.... Every person has a different case... like this person... YOU COME here to america with your parents because you have no other choice.. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? stay alone in your country and DIE because there is nobody who can take care of you? please SOMEONE12 think what you're saying... I understand that there is a lot of immigrants who are criminals but NOT ALL OF THEM.. and that is why IMMIGRATION LAWS should be different for those who are here for GOOD REASONS...

If you look at the new order in Congress and very recent activity in the House you'll see how things are changing and changing fast. The House was reluctant to reauthorize the J-1 waiver because the good-hearted U.S. doctors will take care of things. Well, no good-hearted volunteer showed up and the House passed the reauthorization with little difficulty. The phrase "The House does have a heart" was thrown right into the debate.

There's lots of folks who do not deserve an opportunity to obtain legal status. Those who advocate terrorism, those unwilling to accept American values, those convicted of crimes of violence, those actively participating in hate groups, drug dealers, human traffickers, polygamists, child abusers, those who run prostitution businesses and those engaged in espionage and other activities that compromise national security. However, very minor offenses that amount only to petty misdemeanors or non-violent offenses shouldn't count towards an applicant if the applicant is able to show rehabilitation. This is a fair and comprehensive balance aimed at protecting society, not to solely punish for minor offenses.

This may sound like common sense, but according to current law, a false claim to citizenship to obtain employment may not be waived, even in the absence of a conviction, but there's opportunity to waive activities that amount to advocacy of terrorism. This is absurd.

Immigration reform is imminent, but any plan that amounts only to legalization or presents an enforcement-only approach is bound for failure. The only way to permanently fix the problem is by modifying the law in a sensible way to consider reality and human factors. The law must be flexible enough to adapt to new situations and emerging circumstances, the law must consider the actual demand for immigration instead of imposing arbitrary quotas indifferent to such realities. But most importantly, the law must be aimed at solving a problem and preventing future outbreaks of illegal immigration by defining uncomplicated mechanisms to channel demand, economic needs and family unification in a realistic way.

quote:

Originally posted by kiblonurek:

quote:

Originally posted by Houston:
You know what's funny? I seriously doubt the pilgrims were "inspected", "admitted" or "paroled" or even "welcomed" by the native american. Lots of folks talk about how they've done things legally many years ago, but that conduct that once was considered legal is now rendered illegal, so if you want to talk about something you need to get the historical facts straight.

Yeah but your missing the point... America was built by immigrants... and its funny how people like SOMEONE12 offends every IMMIGRANT here.. He is an idiot.. I wonder where he came from... also I understant that some illegal immigrants should not be allowed to stay here... if you are a criminal and have bad intentions like terrorists or something, then yeah.. but there is millions of illegal immigrants who left their countries to LIVE IN THE LAND OF FREEDOM and OPPORTUNITY as AMARICAN PRESSIDENTS always stated and to have a new life, they never comited crimes and are not allowed to stay here.. its all BS.. Why did EUROPEANS run away from EUROPE to settle in US? to escape persecutions and to live in the land of freedom.. you guys forgot that? why is it that AMERICA says one thing but does the other... There are families here in US of illegal immigrants who have no other choice but stay here illegaly.... Every person has a different case... like this person... YOU COME here to america with your parents because you have no other choice.. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? stay alone in your country and DIE because there is nobody who can take care of you? please SOMEONE12 think what you're saying... I understand that there is a lot of immigrants who are criminals but NOT ALL OF THEM.. and that is why IMMIGRATION LAWS should be different for those who are here for GOOD REASONS...

Kiblonurek, you're missing the point, Someone 12 is not offending EVERY immigrant here, just the illegal ones. He might be pissing you off because he's using harsh words, but he does have a point. I'm also against illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration has to be a problem, otherwise I wouldn't bother discussing and highlighting the most obvious problems. Illegal immigration is also a problem of the law. An immigrant is illegal not because he or she was born with a defect but because of a failure to comply with a certain statute.

During the congressional debate held a few months ago three things became apparent; that current law has failed to consider reality, that the immigration system lacks flexibility to attack and resolve situations involving families and other employment-based situations, and that current border protection strategies and efforts are insufficient.

Border protection is perhaps the most costly but also the easiest issue to resolve as it relates mostly to providing border protection agencies with the personnel and resources they need to do their job.

The other issues require substantial legislative efforts. Clearly, some amnesty program is not going to work all by itself, enforcement-only policies will fail and the past ten years are strong evidence. What's needed is a complete overhaul of the statutes, modifications and amendments that consider the human factor because immigration laws deals directly with individuals, their actions and inactions, their needs and those of entire families.

As long as there's laws that intimidate individuals without the most fundamental hope for a fair process, as long as there's laws that fail to consider basic elements of human nature, as long as there's laws that degrade and mistreat, illegal immigration will continue to be a problem. As long as statutes continue to treat aliens as "objects" or "numbers" allowing service of an NTA on a 5-year old who cannot even read, illegal immigration will continue to be a problem, even the most uneducated and illiterate of individuals would find it difficult to obey a law that considers him or her to be something less than human. Congress has produced magnificent legislation in other areas because, simply put, Congress is a body where bright minds are abundant and good intentions common. Good immigration law is also possible as long as all factors, including those pertaining to human nature, are considered.

The Attorney General himself has noted that banishment from the U.S. is not a light penalty and usually involves the destruction of families, lives and hope. One can only wonder why this established fact is not considered by a law that continues to impose the most severe of punishments in a somewhat light manner without consideration for the real implications of such penalties.

Congress may control legislation, border enforcement and mechanisms of relief. But Congress cannot control and alter human nature by statute. This is why the problem has escalated to become the crisis it is today, failure to think of aliens as human beings, failure to legislate based in a difficult reality instead of hoping that reality someday decides to adapt to a difficult law.

dead klbonunek (or whatever)...not once have I said I am against LEGAL immigration, from the start....I am only against rewarding, in any way, illegals.
You and other illegal alien supporters keep playing the same tune -- that AMerica was built by immigrants....and at the beginning of our country, that was largely true. But that fact does not, repeat (for the learning impaired) give the RIGHT to anyone not a citizen or legal resident to enter, live and work in America. There is nary a single word in our Constitution that gives such a right. Instead, we have immigration laws that regulate access to this country as well as employment. Those rules are for (believe it or not) YOUR benefit and mine....to keep out the riffraff, to maintain jobs and economic well being for America's citizenry, not its illegal aliens. Think of illegals as parasites on a tree....****ing the life from that tree and expecting new life....well, parsites can be eradicated or controlled. We need to eradicate (deport) and control (prevent) more parasites (illegals) from entering or being given benefits ahead of American citizens, legal residents and those waiting their turn to immigrat LEGALLY to the US....so take your high handed comments and stuff them in your larda$$ and return to your Airstream trailer, pop the top on a Bud and watch reruns of "Hee Haw", doofus.

The U.S. Constitution is a masterpiece of legislation and truly honors it's name. It constitutes a nation, it defines the principles upon which the nation exists. The Constitution is not a substitute to other specific statutes but serves as common foundation to all areas of the law. Nothing more and nothing less.

Some familiarity with the law is a pre-requisite to any meaningful conversation involving legislation and other similar topics. One thing that quickly comes to mind when it comes to INA is that many of its regulations have been stricken down as "unconstitutional" (or too broad, too vague, excessively harsh or in violation of the bill of rights) by Circuit Courts and the Supreme Court. While the Constitution does not regulate immigration it does forbid some of the practices implemented in the original form of the statute.

Constitutional law obeys to many principles, including a general conception that all persons have human rights. This principle is evidence of the highly evolved and humane conception of the law in the United States. However, not that long ago the Supreme Court was asked to decide if in fact aliens were actual "persons", again, because of the controversial nature of INA that sometimes seems to conflict with long established constitutional guidelines.

I'm not going to argue for or against any particular position. I will say however that failure to consider the reality of the problem and the real implication of imposing regulations have contributed in no small measure to the problem that exists today.

Create a law that imposes a tax on the air we breathe and, all of a sudden, tax evasion will become the biggest problem in the nation; that absurd idea illustrates how failure to consider human nature in legislative efforts condemns the laws to failure. The U.S. is, without a doubt, a country that respects all individuals regardless of race or origin and a nation of highly evolved institutions, there's no excuse to condemn a law to failure by ignoring reality somehow hoping for a miracle.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Houston,

quote:

Originally posted by user99:
Kiblonurek, you're missing the point, Someone 12 is not offending EVERY immigrant here, just the illegal ones. He might be pissing you off because he's using harsh words, but he does have a point. I'm also against illegal immigration.

Considering how Someone12 defines illegal, that is any immigrant who violates ANY US LAW is considered an illegal immigrant. This would include 99% of all immigrants considering the scope ranges from capital offenses to minor infractions such as traffic and parking tickets to violations of city ordinances of the most minute fraction. If the definition is applied equally to USC, then 99$ of all USC would be subject to incarseration. That is offensive by nature. It is stacking the deck on a group that no one, within reasonable assurance, can pass muster. This is the same vile, marginalized behavior that brought about the Chinese Exclusion Act, Jim Crowe Laws, and other discriminatory laws that has affected our nation's history. It also shows Someone12 and you have not learned from history either.

Hudson, your most recent post was among the few I agree strongly. After defining what an illegal immigrant is, we need to define what criminal is. Then, is the law being applied fair and just? In Canada, the early Chinese were punished with a $500 head tax. After realizing this great mistakea and injustice, the Canadian government rectified this error not only by apologizing formally and publicly, the descendants of these Chinese were compensated for the past mistake. That's discrimination in the highest form committed by the Canadian whites in the past. Are we now to do it to the Mexicans and other ethnic groups just because they have become illegal in this country?

Hudson - you are a complete moron...I never said that an immigrant who violates any US law is an illegal....an illegal alien dirtball is one who either lied and cheated to get a visa and did not abide by the terms of that privilege or some border-jumping scum. Those are illegals....the very ones you and other sub-100 IQ types want to reward instead of deport. They don't belong here, no matter Jim Crow thought, or the Chinese or Native American Indians....the Immigration & Nationality Act regulates the process.

Activist groups will always present their point of view in a peculiar way, and radical groups usually back their so-called "facts" by distorted statistics and misleading comments.

When it comes to immigration, there's radical groups everywhere. Because I don't believe in some legalization program that doesn't contain profound reform I've been called "a person who defends H.R.4437", nothing could be further from the truth.

There's an article presented here that purports to be an study of crime statistics related to illegal aliens. The article however contains no official DOJ statistics or any official records maintained by police agencies, instead it's the personal opinion of an author associated with the Minutemen. Even the author is honest enough to admit his numbers don't have an official source. The poster however only gives readers a bare link to the article. Readers must do some research to find out the true nature of the post.

This "innocent" manipulations and others of a more malicious nature are examples of attempts to influence the opinions of others through fictitious and unsubstantiated arguments.

The truth is simple, evident and it doesn't take a lot to see how the problem is related to a deficiency in the law. There's no adequate channels to handle workers, there's no adequate channels to handle the realities of families. Nobody stops to think if in the face of a penalty the person will not enter the U.S. to work or to be reunited with their loved ones. Nobody considers reality. This approach to immigration has resulted in the crisis we have today. That's I support only a program that modifies INA in a sensible way, not just minor patches that will result in yet another cycle of "enforcement-amnesty".

there are laws already in place that are supposed to be obeyed....and we need stronger penalties for those who decide that those laws don't apply to them.
We already have H2B visas, where employers fabricate evidence to allegedly show that no American came forward for their $3.12 an hour job, H1B visas, where employers pay 30% less to foreigners (on average) and those people who want to be tourists may not qualify -- too bad. Those who are given this privilege and abuse it should be deported permanently....after all, there are plenty of people out there who are responsible adults....why reward dirtbags?
We should eliminate phony marriages by requiring conditional status to remain for three years, that a divorce results in instant deportation for the foreign spouse and those who marry while in deportation proceedings should just be deported and barred for ten years without exception....eliminate all waivers...who needs visa cheats and criminal aliens? Who would miss these dregs? Who cares?
The rules are simple: obey them or get the eff out of America. If you don't like our rules, go somewhere else.

If you consider an obsolete mechanism with out-of-control backlogs to be effective then you're part of the problem and not part of the solution. That's exactly what the problem is, these mechanisms and provisions are designed in some unrealistic way expecting people to adapt to them when in reality, they do nothing to alleviate the problem but often contribute to aggravate it.

If the need is strong enough and the law doesn't recognize that, people will simply try to do things "in some other way". That's the lesson to be learned here. If the clerk at the welfare office told customers they'll get the benefit "ten years from now but only if you beg long enough", I wonder what would happen next...

backlogs have nothing to do with visa cheats and border jumpers....if an LPR has to wait 5 years to get a GC for his/her spouse, too bad. Those are the rules. If someone cannot qualify for an H2b or H1b work visa (and there is a limit to the # of them each year) too bad. That is not an excuse to break our laws.
12M illegals aren't here because of a backlog; they are here because they are irresponsible dirtbags.

Somehow I'm with Someone12 on this.
There are tons of people out there going the legal way to be a lawful citizen, me as one. I came here 10 years ago for school. After graduation, i have an OPT for a year. The company I worked for decided to bring me in as H1B visa. I been on H1b for 6 years. 2 years ago, while on my 4th years H1B, I married to an USC. We have an one year old son. We are in the process of getting me a green card. It's a long road and stressful and costly too. Sometimes I wonder, why them illegal getting a free ride just because they decided to march on the street as protest???? Because of alot BS marriage / and illegal/ overstayed, they give other legal immigrants a bad name. Making them harder and costly...think about it

The achievements of millions who endured and overcame the flaws of the current system is not going to be diminished by a change in the law.
In any case, a sensible change in the statute that will result in a reduction in the levels of illegal immigration shouldn't be prevented to tend to the needs of a group of people who seem to be more interested in making others go through the same things they went though than in solving a problem that's affecting the health of a nation as a whole.