I have been on Ilw.com not very long (this being the only discussion board that I visit so far due to time constraints), but long enough, and posted enough apparently, for me to be a Senior Member. Ha!

All along, for exactly 11 months today, I have seen enough of this board’s highs and lows - how members have come and gone, and how ideas and issues have been handled in the discussions, and have taken their turns for the worse or for the better; how emotions flared and how friendships are formed.

But one thing is constant – there is always the tendency, however clear-headed the discussions went along, which is the resulting “two sides” that divide the opinions of the posters – and yet at the end of each day, nobody prevails to be a winner.

It’s even safe to say that the argumentation and debate, however amicable or hate-filled, take on a perfect circle that goes round and round, ending up exactly from where it started.

We have seen lately that in the midst of the fiery conflagration of ideas and emotional exchanges, legitimate posters with immigration concerns are being discouraged to come out into the open fearing that instead of receiving constructive opinions, to just rather get flamed.

Theirs too are the voices that need to be heard, or one of the reasons for this discussion board's excuse for being. Is it not?

What’s happening to our forum, webmaster? Do we now culture the seeds of its own demise?

More than a century ago, one great President of this great Nation answered a great challenge – of whether to go on with the ways of old, a divided country – or to open up the new horizon of unity and equality among men. He famously said: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”

But the ensuing hostilities and the rebirth of this great nation with its renewed freedom didn’t come without a cost. A great, great cost. But even how much the travail of such rebirth had been difficult, the sacrifices of the ones who ‘gave the last full measure of devotion’ have never been in vain. They died in the battlefields so we may live in justice, equality, and peace.

At this juncture, I make my humble call – a call for peace and reconciliation. Immigration is a contentious issue. But we can discuss it without hatred. Let’s stick to the issues, not on personalities. Let not our differences in opinions divide us into bitter foes.

After all, that’s one of this nation’s distinct foundations of greatness – unity in diversity – to be blessed being a magnet for and being built by the most brilliant and brightest minds from all over the world.

Division just makes us weaker in confronting our common enemies: the real bad guys who mean us real harm!

I hope that soon enough the light of reason will shine in the seats of power, that this crisis that we must all face as a nation gets resolved, in peace, minus the hate, it just muddles the issues all the more, as if they're not hazy enough, the way of the devil, so it must be rejected as a discussion tool.

Hate and violence make “ground zeros.” Peace and love would make more high-rises. Hate and animosity aim to destroy. Love and unity endeavor to build. Hate loves the dark. Love hopes for the sunrise.

Hate builds walls. Love builds bridges. Hate makes closed fists for combat. Love opens palms ready for handshakes. Hate spells death. Love assures life everlasting.

And because hate consumes more the hater than the hated, it never succeeds.

Love, on the other hand, because it’s always shared, never fails.

This great nation and its government, despite our differences, ‘shall not perish from the earth!’

Happy, happy holidays to all once again!

hate?? no, love....for the United States of America, her borders and her LAWS...not for any illegal alien douchebag nor anyone that supports these leeches...

I support a peaceable discussion and resolution of the current mess. You support the nit-plucking of roofing and tamale workers.

I support the idea that the current immigration situation is dismally broken that needs comprehensive reform. You support those who think that everything is perfect and dandy and enforce the patchwork laws.

I support a top to bottom accounting of those who are here and entering here in order to separate the acceptable ones from the misfits, and for the problem to not happen again. You support the removal of all douchebag (translation: immigrants) from the US.

I support the end to all bad guys enjoying the cover of the current mess. You support keeping everything as it is.

I support the idea of putting everything in order. You support the current mess.

I ally with the advocates of reform. You ally with the bad guys by default!

Now, between you and me, who loves the United States of America more?

nice try, but "reform" does not equal "reward" and that is what many misguided individuals are encouraging,...granting/giving status to 12M+ douchebags who started their "career" in the US by promptly ignoring our laws....sorry but there are NO 'bad guys' that want people to obey and abide by our laws....only village idiots (like those who graze at immigrate2us.net) have the braindead notion that only by rewarding illegals can we "reform" our laws....no, if we enforce them to the nth degree, without exception, and moreover, eliminate all waivers for overstays/fraud,etc, we would see a dramatic decline in the number of 'good faith' marriages that seem to occur 10 minutes AFTER some illegal douchebag got his or her deportation order....what an amazing coincidence...
I believe that EVERYONE is subject to our laws, that ALL must abide by them and if they don't agree with those laws, that is not an excuse to thumb one's collective tamale-stained nose at those rules and not expect to be penalized...(and not just in monetary terms)..
It is you and proudusc, hudson and other misguided souls who, for reasons only known to yourselves, that believe that illegals should be rewarded for being criminals (whether civic or felonious is not relevant)...and what do you say to all those waiting outside the US to immigrate to this country by following the laws? Hmmm? "Gosh, you should have snuck into the country..."?? "Gee, you sure are stupid for obeying our laws?" -- to give anything to illegals other than 'das boot' is a mistake and will only encourage an even larger flood of douchebags to this country...and then what?
But hey, why not take the 'proudusc' challenge....if you fervently love illegals so much and believe in their cause or 'right' to be in the US (and even worse, be given a benefit ahead of those who abide by our laws) then by all means, take a dozen or so into YOUR home, let them use YOUR car, let them take up space in YOUR CHILD's classroom, YOU PAY for all their medical bills, etc....come on....let's see how 'courageous' you really are....I'm betting you are just as big of a wimp as that overcooked piece of spaghetti, proudusc....

Reward? Haha! And you think you are clever. Did I mention anything of any "reward?" All I said was "top to bottom accounting," so from where did such pathetic a word and idea (granting that you have the capability to come up with "new" one) "reward" come from? Oh I know, but unlike you, I choose my words and my labels.

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
... But hey, why not take the 'proudusc' challenge....if you fervently love illegals so much and believe in their cause or 'right' to be in the US (and even worse, be given a benefit ahead of those who abide by our laws) then by all means, take a dozen or so into YOUR home, let them use YOUR car, let them take up space in YOUR CHILD's classroom, YOU PAY for all their medical bills, etc....come on....let's see how 'courageous' you really are....I'm betting you are just as big of a wimp as that overcooked piece of spaghetti, proudusc....

Okay, I have been reading this from your posts, I don't know, maybe around a hundred times. Before I was just laughing it off, but now it becomes boring it makes me throw up.

Illegals don't come to the US for charity, but for opportunity. So this 'take them to your home' blabber is a fruit of a child's (I almost said mental case) intellect. Likewise this free education, healthcare, food stamps, choobah, choobah, choobah, choo, choo! are baseless claims. I interact with these people day after day (for sure more than you) so I know. Have you tried to apply for a food stamp lately? Very few of these people dare to try. They prefer to work and earn for their subsistence. After their clinic visit, they have to eat, hospitals don't give them food, they work for it. The skid rows in US cities, can you see illegals spreading their filth? They are in day-labor centers instead, hoping to get quick jobs to do for us Americans who hate them outwardly, but sneakily pick up one or two when nobody's looking. C'mon, this is America, it's either you live with its realities or leave!

so if they are coming here solely for 'opportunity' and not 'charity' then why are any of them showing up at our hospitals (where they NEVER pay the bills), why are our schools stuffed to the gills with their brats (and they pay nary a ****hing for this education) and why do they walk away from car wrecks they cause without paying?
Illegals are leeches, no matter how you, that moron proudusc or any other illegal alien supporter wishes to sugarcoat reality.
Next you'll claim that illegals commit no crimes (that they are just looking for 'opportunity' -like raping a teenager or stealing a car....great 'opportunities' huh?)...why are so many in our jails? Illegals are just here to scam off of the backs of Americans...what we should do is pass a law allows illegals to leech off of idiots like you....you pay their way...be my guest....but I don't want a single dime of mine to be spent on illegals unless it goes toward their return-trip airline ticket...

and the reason why you are around illegals more than I am is because I don't live in a flea-infested trailer park like you do.

But unlike you I know that there is a problem that needs to be solved on a comprehensive manner. I know that hating anyone doesn't take this country anywhere. I know and I believe in something that is bound to happen, a COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM, sometime in the future. I know that you will go bald (if not yet) pulling your hair but your "patriotism" (translation: psychotic tantrums) will neither amount to anything, nor change anything, while this great country of mine, devises plans to solve this serious immigration problem. Do I sound like an idiot if I support the rest of the American people who do not support an illegal act but clamoring for a solution? A solution that encompasses "law enforcement, economic, and humanitarian" aspects of it all? If to think that way is idiotic, I do not know how to classify yours!

Another one of your "%^(*&^%$@%" ways is to hijack my well-intentioned thread with your "%^(*&^%$@%" venom. (No particular letters constitute these symbols. Because unlike you, I'm not that good at labeling, understandably, due to your inability to come up with decent, coherent, and civil arguments).

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
and the reason why you are around illegals more than I am is because I don't live in a flea-infested trailer park like you do.

I don't know if a 4 bedroom, 3 bath, sitting on a 4,356 sq. ft. lot, two storey-house in a 2003 housing complex can be categorized as a "flea-infested trailer park." Ha!

And an "illegal alien supporter who wishes to sugarcoat the reality?" Sorry, that's not me. Just because I don't hate them as I look at the problem to be much deeper than your blind fury doesn't mean that I condone their unlawful act of crossing the border or overstaying their visas.

I also maintain a personal policy of contempt to those who commit crimes, even DUI/DWI, so much so if they're here illegally. They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, be sent out, and be banned forever. Read my old posts.

You like to write (well, if what you do can be called writing) than read a little bit.

As I said before, these are the things that I support:

I support a peaceable discussion and resolution of the current mess.

I support the idea that the current immigration situation is dismally broken that needs comprehensive reform.

I support a top to bottom accounting of those who are here and entering here in order to separate the acceptable ones from the misfits, and for the problem to not happen again.

I support the end to all bad guys enjoying the cover of the current mess.

I support the idea of putting everything in order.

I ally with the advocates of reform.

Rough Neighbor,
I agree that the round and round circle "debate" that I have viewed on ILW has not led to much resolve, as I to am in agreement that comprehensive immigration reform is not only needed, but required at this point in American history as never before. IR is a topic that enflames and unfortunately brings out the best and worst in people. I myself have been misunderstood and labeled as an illegal supporter, which I am not, but I will not respond to assaultive attacks, it's not my style. My cry is for understanding, which is the first step to resolving any problem, no matter how large it's magnitude. But one can not debate or even have a civil exchange of ideas if certain components to discussion are bipassed or negated. Everyone's voice is deserving of being heard, our constitution provides that in free speech, however, if some choose not to engage in a clear presentation of ideals, their voice will not be heard, as we have so seen reflected here.
Personally, if I am given the respect of being listened to (without hurled assaults and name-calling), I will be glad to present my views on immigration reform, which are my views, and they may or may not be the most correct views, but they are my views and deserve to be heard. But, I will not respond to assaultive attacks from those who misunderstand me and my views and attack with blind arrogance and juvenile tactics. This is a place for grown ups, and like kids, grown ups disagree, but I would hope that something can and will be learned from a systematic debate and exchange of ideals in a free forum. I am hoping that those who have disrespected others will take head and make some changes. Yes, I may be an idealist, but this is my hope for the board.

S12, we have to keep in mind one thing. RN is not an American. She came from somewhere else with ideas born of another country. Another country that failed. Tries to sound smart and intelligent but like others never answers the tough questions. To anyone who is not an American. We probably don't want to hear your ideas because quite frankly, we don't trust you.

I posed the same question. If you believe what you say back it up. Do something personally to show you do. Spend some of your own money to support your belief. Do any of you? I doubt it. You love our freedom of speech but don't spend a dime supporting it. The microphone may be on for everyone but does not guarantee anyone is listening. You think our country should support your ideas but not yourself.

Perhaps you are not the typical scum that gets ranted against. Perhaps that is why you don't understand the animosity. Invite some of those into your house and listen to what they have to say. Go to one of their rallies. $10 bucks says you will be insulted (assuming your not hispanic). Ask a flag burner why he did it. Or that clown in AZ who had the Mex flag above ours. Maybe if it were your home country you would feel something. But then again, its not, so why care eh?

The answer is already there. Just enforce the rules as they exist. Anyone who opposes the rules set forth by this country's law makers should be dealt with accordingly.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: davdah,

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
S12, we have to keep in mind one thing. RN is not an American. She came from somewhere else with ideas born of another country. Another country that failed. Tries to sound smart and intelligent but like others never answers the tough questions. To anyone who is not an American. We probably don't want to hear your ideas because quite frankly, we don't trust you.

Davdah, do you realize exactly how ignorant this sounds???

(Scratching my head in disbelief)

Not ignorant at all. You really need to open your eyes. Don't believe for one second everyone has such honorable intentions. They don't.

The rules exist and work as long as they are used and enforced. The only part of the system that is broken is enforcement. Even that is being repaired as we speak.

So next time you see someone put up a thumbs down to our ICE people think for a moment. Why? Why was it ok to support drug dealers who stole an immigration truck. I know, I know, it wasn't really supporting them, well,.. what was it then? You either support them or you don't. Which is it? Who do you support?

Are we reading the same thread???

I'm keeping in mind what I have seen before.

I had to add this. Was this a question "love never fails" or a statement? I hope not a statement. It fails every day. Why? It all begins with people not following simple rules like the 10 commandments. From that to things a little more complex like immigration law. Its all about intent.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: davdah,