I don't believe in giving up, throwing in the towel sort of speaking. While I don't support illegal immigration I recognize there's very pronounced deficiencies in the law; if this wasn't an issue the Secretary wouldn't be talking about it and the courts wouldn't have the need to "re-interpret" the statutes just to make some sense out of them.

This country has its own realities and copying legislation is clearly not the answer. Each country designs its own legislation to deal with their own problems; Congress is a very capable institution, the lines for debate are, or seem to be, open and there's plenty of options available to find an efficient fix to the problem. If copying was all that was needed then Congress could be replaced by a Xerox machine, but most obviously that's not the case.

A guest worker program by itself is not the answer. Legalizations by themselves are not the answer. What's needed is a complete package of innovative, up to date measures that deal with the immigration reality in an efficient, fair and just way. This nation deserves better than transplanted legislation.

In order to solve the riddle, we need to find its origin, the first question that comes to my mind is, do I have all the facts on both sides of the story in order to give a real and accurate answer?
Then the next questions would be:
• Why is it that undocumented immigrants prefer to cross the desert, knowing that they might die on the odyssey, if it’s so easy to get a working visa to the USA?
• Why is it that they can just stay in their country and wait for their turn?
• Is it the USA in any way responsible of the economic crisis in Mexico?
From that point on, the next question would be:
• Does the USA have the right to lock its borders?
• Is it smart for the USA to legalize the illegal population without reforming the immigration laws that have created this chaos?
• What are the real consequences of a massive deportation? Is this possible?
• What are the real consequences of a massive legalization? Is this possible?
• Which one of the above would be more cost effective to the economy?
Its easy to repeat what we read or hear from another's person point of view (whether right or left), but it takes a lot of courage to be independent and to have our own point of view, more so to express them and try to make them a reality. What is it that we as a nation can do?
The name calling and the insults are plain ignorance and lack of personality, therefore, such comments should be ignored.
Wanting something is not always what we need...
So, do we need an immigration reform? Do we need legalization? Do we need to lock our borders?, do we need to deport?
Lets hear your own conclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
so many illegal alien supporters claim that our current illegal alien problem is "complex." It's not.
It is the result of a very simple decision made by 12M dirtbags....example:
Is it illegal to cross our borders without permission? Answer: Yes. Wow....that's really complicated! If 12M irresponsible illegals can't figure out the answer to that question, then they are too stupid to even be in the US
Or....when one has a tourist visa, one is supposed to visit the US and then leave....is it illegal to overstay? Answer: Yes....wow...another 'complicated' issue. Visa cheats made a concious decision to thumb their unwashed noses at our laws....and then expect to be rewarded!!!
Bottom line: two EZ decisions...don't jump the border or respect the privilege of a US visa....this ain't rocket science.

The "Complexity" is that everyone is complaining that they didn't come "the right way" but no one is complaining to the government that "the right way" means waiting between 10-20 YEARS...it is irrational to expect someone to wait that long to feed their children!!!

www.myfreeusa.com

quote:

The "Complexity" is that everyone is complaining that they didn't come "the right way" but no one is complaining to the government that "the right way" means waiting between 10-20 YEARS...it is irrational to expect someone to wait that long to feed their children!!!

Some hate the notion that an alien comes here (legally or illegally) to reunite with family, to work, or both. During the Ellis Island era, did the Europeans come here as entrepreneurs, scientists, athletes? or also as ordinary workers in search of better future, most with nothing but shirts on their backs!!!? Ow, it's not illegal then. Sorry. So it's something like during the prehistoric times, "people eat raw meat," then they discovered fire, salt, preservatives, ingredients, menu, etc. But, "then and now," all the same, people eat meat.

I hate the notion of aliens sneaking into our country, period. Legal is fine - I understand the immigration laws need reform; however, as I and many others have stated repeatedly, we cannot tolerate a mass influx of immigrants. No other country leaves their doors wide open, why should we be the cure-all for everyone's woes? I feel bad for countries who are allowing their people to starve and die of curable illnesses. I believe the US tries to provide relief of some sort to these countries , but what about the responsibilty of their governments to their citizens? Maybe someone here would like to further enlighten me?

I don't believe it's about trying to solve everybody else's problems, I believe it's about solving a very real situation that has a very real effect.

Current law can be seen as anything but an open door. There's no relief for those who enter without inspection, none. There's very little relief available to families and the existing channels are anything but practical. The standard for asylum are almost impossible to be met. Still, for whatever reason, there's a demand for immigration and there's little, if anything, that U.S. policy can do to change that fact in the foreseeable future. Domestic law has direct effect over how immigration demand is handled, it doesn't have that effect over such demand per-se.

So, good law is one that deals with reality, one that deals with the current demand for immigration benefits. Current law is designed to ignore that fact and close the door on most people, the results are evident. Now, you can continue with the current approach, ignore reality and create even more restrictive legislation. Is that going to change the demand for immigration benefits? Is that going to change economic realities? You can take your numbers from your preferred source, in any case you'll see how such a restrictionist approach has exponentially increased the number of illegal immigrants. More of the same means more of the same... More illegal immigration, more amnesties in the future.

No person should be allowed to cross without inspection. Period. But it's also true that legislation designed with an arrogant tone ignoring reality is bound for failure. The sad consequences of all this is a situation where human rights are violated on a daily basis, families being destroyed, distrust of authority and the need to suddenly take extreme measures, such as legalization, to somehow manage this monumental crisis.

This is like going to the doctor. You didn't ask to be sick, and sure you don't like surgery, but you do what it takes to get better. The nation needs to get better and illegal immigration has to end. The one way to solve the problem is by enacting effective, fair and realistic legislation.

Once I read a story, I am sure most of you had the opportunity to read it as well:

It is about a person whom was robbed and beat up, then left for dead in the middle of the road.

A priest passed by and ignored him, since it was none of his business to help him,

Then another person went by and ignored him as well.

Then a third person saw him and without even knowing the injured person went out of his way and helped him, he even left what was worth two days of work with the innkeeper and promise to pay if he incurred in extra expenses.

I see three behaviors here:

The robbers behaviors (What is yours is mine I will take it)

The priest’s behavior (What is mine is mine, I don’t have to share it with you)

And the last guy’s behavior ( I do not know you but what is mine is yours)

The Question is who is our neighbor? And who out of those three are we?

Blessings to everyone.

There you go, i think you found the answer bsanchez! you be the "third guy" in your 5 yr old story and we can move all illegal immigrants into your house. That way we dont stress about it anymore. Hell pay for their stay and whatever they need, infact leave extra for them to send home to others willing to come.

unbelievable

once again, ivee27 betrays his/her ignorance...."wait 10 to 20 years to feed their children..."...what hor$e$hit...the US of A does not owe everyone in the world a high standard of living nor three meals a day...so, mr or ms know-it-all....Congress passed laws that limit LEGAL (look that word up in a dictionary) immigratio to PROTECT American citizens and the AMerican economy....so tell us all...what, if any limits should there be on LEGAL immigration? And if you say 'none' (so everyone can feed their children without delay) answer the following questions:
1) where are 5,000,000,000 people supposed to live in the US?
2) where are 5,000,000,000 people supposed to work in the US?
3) what will be the average wage of 5,000,000,000 workers all competing for the same jobs?
d) what will be the level of diseases in our cities when 5,000,000,000 people overcrowd our nation?

Now, I don't expect you will answer because you can't...instead, we will hear a replay of the old "everyone should have the right to a better life..."...but show some courage and don't dodge the questions......answer them....let's hear your well-thought ideas of how the US of A can absorb everyone on the planet....and if instead you suggest limiting immigration in any way, shape or form, well, soon demand will outstrip supply and....gosh....whaddya know....there will be people waiting (to feed their children)...
well????

quote:

1) where are 5,000,000,000 people supposed to live in the US?
2) where are 5,000,000,000 people supposed to work in the US?
3) what will be the average wage of 5,000,000,000 workers all competing for the same jobs?
d) what will be the level of diseases in our cities when 5,000,000,000 people overcrowd our nation?

Hello there! We're still here, huh?

I don't know a lot, but I know how to handle this one.

1) to 3) & d) above will NEVER EVER HAPPEN!

Only China and India have surpassed the billion mark in total population, 1.313B and 1.027B, respectively, while the total world's is around 6.5B.

I know that you're just exaggerating but please check your math when you're on a public forum, make it a bit credible.

I maintain what I originally believe in - that the illegal population is increasing by leaps and bounds because of their inability to travel out and back.

the point is (for the intelligent-impaired) is that if, as most moronic illegal alien supporters believe, we (the US) should have unchecked immigration levels, it won't be long before most of the entire world would flock here....so....what are we supposed to do with everyone?? Whether 1 billion,2 or 5, the US of A cannot possibly absorb them all....but, if you, like that idiot ivees27 think that anyone and everyone should just get to come and live and work in the US, then start by taking in a couple of dozen illegals in YOUR house, feed and clothe them, pay their medical and education bills...see how much you would enjoy doing so...then, and only then, think about spending MY money

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
the point is (for the intelligent-impaired) is that if, as most moronic illegal alien supporters believe, we (the US) should have unchecked immigration levels, it won't be long before most of the entire world would flock here....so....what are we supposed to do with everyone?? Whether 1 billion,2 or 5, the US of A cannot possibly absorb them all....but, if you, like that idiot ivees27 think that anyone and everyone should just get to come and live and work in the US, then start by taking in a couple of dozen illegals in YOUR house, feed and clothe them, pay their medical and education bills...see how much you would enjoy doing so...then, and only then, think about spending MY money

Well I'll spend MY money on something productive, and you spend YOURS on the government (The Senates Barber and Beauty Salon($1.8 million from 1993-97)which consists of : seven barbers, five hair stylists, two manicurists, two receptionists, and a shoeshine attendant. Unused Flight Tickets Totaling $100 Million, $5.8 million on government officials abusing their government credit cards,Taxpayer-funded purchases include Ozzy Osbourne concert tickets, tattoos, lingerie, bartender school tuition, car payments, and cash advances. $497,000 for an Air Force jet and $68,000 for meals, lodging,& tips for a 17-day tour of the Orient for four lawmakers, 25 aides, spouses, and escorts. A 23-member entourage on an estimated $500,000 trip through Europe and Russia that included visits to "premier museums and … boat tours through St. Petersburg." A 16-member delegation to the North Atlantic Assembly's biannual meeting in Paris, even though "opinions about the importance of the Assembly vary" and the transportation costs for the journey typically stick taxpayers for $470,000 per year.) I could go on but you get the point.

Let me remind everyone, I am not for open borders. My issues are that the average wait time for immigrants is between 13-22 years, that is insane to expect people to wait that long!

First start by fixing that problem and there won't be so many coming illegally, then document the ones that are here, without the fear of being deported, giving limited rights (not citizenship), then we will be able to see who is a drain on society, who are free loaders, who are "real" criminals and who we need to deport, Then we could make some sort of estimate of how many are really here, how many applications we bring in and how many we can withstand.

The truth is that they will always come back, no matter how many we deport or how big of a wall we build, because there are always going to be people willing to turn their heads for a few $$. Wasting all this time,money and energy trying to figure out a way to "get rid of them" is worthless and hateful.

I am just here being realistic and trying to figure out a better, more productive way.

you claim you are not for open borders, yet you don't want anyone waiting to immigrate - you cannot have it both ways, you idiot. Either there are limits (which there should be) in which case there will be a backlog or no limits in which case there will be a disaster.
Maybe we should just eliminate almost all family based immigration...no more brothers and sisters, no more adult children of Americans...only spouses of Americans and residents and minor children..period.
But again, for you, the learning impaired, there will always be a wait time..and responsible people wait...because immigrating to the US is a privilege, not a right.
We cannot afford to reward the dirtbags already here; that will just encourage more dirtbags...but of course, by all means, take them into YOUR house....and I noticed that you did not address my points....a typical non-response by moronic illegal alien supporters..it cannot be more obvious that illegals are a huge drain on our society and economy, but only those with IQs 80 or below fail to recognize this.
Why do you think we have visa laws? Just so dirtbags can ignore them? why do we have border controls? Just so dirtbags can ignore them as well? Why can't dirtbags either obey our laws or get their sorry butts deported? Where does it say anywhere in our lsws that anyone who lies, cheats or steals their way into the US should be rewarded? Please....find that section of LAW...

They are not all "dirt bags", they are human beings, they are not animals, they are not dirty insects, they are PEOPLE, of course some shouldn't be here (the drug dealers, the rapists & murders etc...hell, there are Americans that don't deserve to be here either) but so many of them are hard working families just like us, that just want to work and take care of their families and they don't all deserve to be treated this way because they are Mexican.
You are a prime example of the Americans stereotyping them all as "dirt bags" not looking at them as human beings with hopes and dreams....it is a difficult decision to make to bring your children across the desert, knowing they may die trying, or to leave your family behind not knowing if you will ever see them again...have you ever stopped to think what could possibly drive someone to take that risk? It isn't just to piss off Americans and become criminals. If it didn't take so many years (between 13-22 years) they would come legally and if they still came illegally then it would be fine to deport those that still don't want to do it the right way.
I am trying to get it through your thick skulls, that the wait is just too long, it's insane to think someone can wait so many years to finally feed their children. Why can't we point some of this hatred at the government and make it known that Americans are pissed at the government for letting it take so long, which is causing them to come illegally...I believe half the reason you don't complain to the government,or admit they are the cause is that you don't want them here at all, legal or illegal, because they don't speak English, they eat tortillas and beans, they aren't white bread Americans!!!!!
You can call me all the names you want, make stupid cracks at me, GOD will judge me and he is the only one I am worried about. You can turn your nose up at that comment too, but i hope i see the day when you have to answer to GOD for it and we'll see who's laughing then!!!
And you are the uneducated one, you watch T.V and use the Internet and all the statistics for your conclusions, you gather all the negative information so you can fuel your hatred. I have friends and family that are going through this as we speak, most of them actually put in the applications, paid the fees and after waiting 2-6 years, hearing nothing from our government and not knowing any other option decide to cross. They all ask me to help, thinking because I am an American I know where to go, who to talk to, to do it legally and are willing to pay a fine and go back to Mexico if they know it is actually being processed. I know what their motivations are and they want so badly to be documented, to pay taxes, get drivers licenses, learn English, own a home, just live like a normal person. They don't want to take over America, they don't hate Americans, they want to be Americans. And they are scared to death for the next friend or relative that has to try to cross the border, that they may die, they don't want to do it this way, they just feel they have no other choice with the way the immigration laws are right now.
I know you and so many others don't care, "they are criminals, they are dirt bags"...And you are the reason the hate groups have formed, the reason some do want to take over America, because they are tired of being treated like garbage, when all they wanted was a chance to live.
And if you never change your mind, that's fine, but i know there are those out there that aren't sure what they feel is right and when they realize who is really to blame (the government), when they see both sides to the stories, they will be on my side, fighting to change the immigration laws not to deport them all!

www.myfreeusa.com

Well, as I originally posted, I knew you had ties with illegals. Why in the world do you think it's okay for these people to cross our borders and gain asylum in our country? That's the message you are sending! Maybe you don't care where your tax dollars are sent, but I do! I know I'm falling on deaf ears - you're in love with an illegal - so all of your rationality has gone out the window.

Who represents more closely the ideals of our Founding Fathers? someone12 or ivees27? You be the judge. I can sleep well tonight because I'm sure about my choice.

Librada - times have changed, for God's sake. This country has always been a welcoming country for immigrants. We absolutely cannot withstand the tens of thousands illegals coming into this country on a daily basis. It's different for us than for our founding fathers. When your life starts being disrupted by illegals, maybe you'll give a d-a-m-n. Oops, you probably are an illegal, so maybe not.

I won't justify my status again, you don't want to believe what I said before, then, the burden is on you to prove otherwise.

Hep, correction, miss. Times have changed? or PEOPLE have changed, big difference, at least, for me.

STRIVE ACT has been introduced today, go figure, it's a bipartisan bill in the House. The Senate version will follow suit to put flesh into placeholder S.9.

Will these bills be successful in navigating the current political waters, much so, survive the push and pull of party politics? It's a wait and see scenario.

But, my point is, regardless of the outcome, the message is clear. That our legislators in the august chambers of congress can see the problem and the time is running out to look the other way, and the time to address these complex issues COMPREHENSIVELY is now.

You don't see it that way, do you. Pity on you!