SunDevil, I think I know where England equals Great Britain comes from in ntfd3's posts. In some languages, Polish also, England unofficially, means the same as GB. Unofficially, in a spoken word mostly, like a shortcut. Don't know how it came to be that way, maybe it's just easier to say England (Anglia in Polish), than Great Britain (Wielka Brytania). So by saying England everyone pretty much knows it means Great Britain.
Agree – in Czech language it is the same (we say like e.g. ‘Jedeme do Anglie.’ – and we mean ‘We go to GB’.) . I know this might sound weird – this is just a bad habit. I always tried to say at least Britain or in shortcut GB because I am well aware that this land is composed by more than a just one nation but … I think that because of our media the situation slightly changes towards the correct expression, e.g. GB. This habit you probably might probably be comparable to saying ‘Easter Europe’ – and you would include CR and Poland. So, I believe, we all should be more careful because we do not want to hurt somebody else’s feelings, do we?
Originally posted by Honey: Hey, Hudson: there were many Czech pilots, you know?
The point was not which nationalities were in the RAF, but the how the RAF defended Great Britain. The organizational structure, the use of both new and old technology and the efficiency of delivering the proper amount of its extremely limited resources to counter the attack is why Great Britain won the battle. That was the point and the only point, Honey.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Honey and Iperson: Thank you for your comments. I agree that in many countries, the terms England and Britain are used interchangeably...and are generally understood to mean the same thing. It is similar to Holland being understood to refer to the Netherlands.
I would, however, expect the British and the Dutch to refer to their countries in the correct manner, regardless of the conventions in other countries.
It is my understanding that ntfd3 is BRITISH, and he has an obligation, not only to know better, but to use the correct terminology.
The point was not which nationalities were in the RAF, but the how the RAF defended Great Britain.
OMG, Honey tell me if I am seeing this correctly, or else my blood veins are going to start popping out immediately.
Are you Hudson saying that the Polish and Chech pilots in the battle of Britain were actually serving in RAF??? OMG OMG OMG! This is this kind of ignorance I am talking about here all the time. I hope you are going to correct this fast or else I'll put you on my ignore list from now on.
Ok, I feel I have to run a little history course here for you folks. Because obviously people think Poland is not a country with its own identity. Sadly, it is an outcome of history which tried to take our identity away but never succeeded.
Poland has its own identity, with its own distinct langauage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language Polish has NOTHING in common with the Russian language. Both langages have different roots. Its as if you were comparing German to English.
Poland was established as a state in year 966 after it took Christianity from the Chechs. Yes Honey, and thank you. Then in the next seven centuries Poland had its own royal lines, its own Monarchs (Kings and Queens) in a few Royal Dynasties, one of the best known the Jagiellon Dynasty among others.
I mentioned previously that Poland was once a superpower in Europe and its true. Polish language back in 16th-17th century, for nearly 200 years was considered lingua franca, just like English today, one of the common official languages in the whole Europe. In the 16th century Poland formed a Commonwealth with Lithuania. At its apogee, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth comprised some 400,000 square miles and a multi-ethnic population of 11 million, which lasted till 1791, almost two centuries.
Europe was so threatened by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that it had to invade Poland from all sides and take it apart into three parts. And thus so, over a hundred years there was no Poland on the maps of Europe. The three occupants- Russia, Prussia and Austria-Hungary tried to assmiliate Polish people into their own by banishing polish language, first of all as well as culture and the government.
Poland gained its independance only in 1918 to be invaded all over again in 1939 and the rest you know, I hope. Full indepedance was gained in 1989. So over two hundred years of occupation, its been only 18 years since Poland is a sovereign country.
Poland battled other countries for centuries with many wonderful victories. Poland always had its own army, its own generals and officers. So to say that Polish pilots were serving in Royal Air Force is a slap on the face. Poland had and has its own army, its own generals, its own pilots and its own Air Force, Hudson, never surrendering.
You will read there that Poland is the oldest democracy in the world, after the US. While most European countries at the end of the 18th century were strong monarchies, Poland enjoyed democracy with full voting rights to parliment. The noblemen gotten away with monarchy and elected monarchs whose power was weakened. This has never happened anywhere else at that time. The Polish Constitution was the second one in the world after the American, signed in 1791.
So, I am proud of my origins. Not only that, also I simply know that Poland is going to get strong again, with a strong economy and will be a country to count in Europe and in the world. Just wait and see.
iperson. Great threads, loved reading them. Question for you though ur the historian obviously upon us, when i was in Germany I heard a lot of talk that a part of Germany was now Poland? Was it Poland then Germany then back to Poland, or was it Germany and Poland got a portion of it? I have no idea what portion, but I hope u can enlighten. : ) As for England, United Kingdom, Great Britian. Its all one and the same as those with any inkling of Geography and common sense knows. All perfectly correct terminologies. Thanks.
ntfd3: You are just too stupid for words. Contrary to your assertion, "England, United Kingdom, Great Britain" are NOT "all one and the same." In actual fact, each is quite different.
Anyone with anything more than a second-grade education at anything other than an English elementary school has more common sense and a better inkling of geography than you do, and knows that England is merely a constituent part of the United Kingdom. England and/or Britain and/or United Kingdom are NOT interchangeable terms, and all of your stupid statements to the contrary simply confirm that you're intellectually challenged.
Originally posted by iperson: OMG, Honey tell me if I am seeing this correctly, or else my blood veins are going to start popping out immediately.
Are you Hudson saying that the Polish and Chech pilots in the battle of Britain were actually serving in RAF??? OMG OMG OMG! This is this kind of ignorance I am talking about here all the time. I hope you are going to correct this fast or else I'll put you on my ignore list from now on.
IP, this is not ignorance. It is historical fact. Let me give the squadron numbers which Polish pilots flew for the RAF during WWI: * No. 300 "Masovia" Polish Bomber Squadron (Ziemi Mazowieckiej) * No. 301 "Pomerania" Polish Bomber Squadron (Ziemi Pomorskiej) * No. 302 "City of Poznań" Polish Fighter Squadron (Poznański) * No. 303 "Kościuszko" Polish Fighter Squadron (Warszawski imienia Tadeusza Kościuszki) * No. 304 "Silesia" Polish Bomber Squadron (Ziemi Śląskiej imienia Ksiecia Józefa Poniatowskiego) * No. 305 "Greater Poland" Polish Bomber Squadron (Ziemi Wielkopolskiej imienia Marszałka Józefa Piłsudskiego) * No. 306 "City of Toruń" Polish Fighter Squadron (Toruński) * No. 307 "City of Lwów" Polish Fighter Squadron (Lwowskich Puchaczy) * No. 308 "City of Kraków" Polish Fighter Squadron (Krakowski) * No. 309 "Czerwień" Polish Fighter-Reconnaissance Squadron (Ziemi Czerwieńskiej) * No. 315 "City of Dęblin" Polish Fighter Squadron (Dębliński) * No. 316 "City of Warsaw" Polish Fighter Squadron (Warszawski) * No. 317 "City of Wilno" Polish Fighter Squadron (Wileński) * No. 318 "City of Gdańsk" Polish Fighter-Reconn aissance Squadron (Gdański) * No. 663 Polish Artillery Observation Squadron Source
Great pride is still honored amoung the senior Polish people who still remember and lived those days. However, your reaction shows something completely different.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by iperson: Ok, I feel I have to run a little history course here for you folks. Because obviously people think Poland is not a country with its own identity. Sadly, it is an outcome of history which tried to take our identity away but never succeeded.
Poland has its own identity, with its own distinct langauage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language Polish has NOTHING in common with the Russian language. Both langages have different roots. Its as if you were comparing German to English.
Poland was established as a state in year 966 after it took Christianity from the Chechs. Yes Honey, and thank you. Then in the next seven centuries Poland had its own royal lines, its own Monarchs (Kings and Queens) in a few Royal Dynasties, one of the best known the Jagiellon Dynasty among others.
I mentioned previously that Poland was once a superpower in Europe and its true. Polish language back in 16th-17th century, for nearly 200 years was considered lingua franca, just like English today, one of the common official languages in the whole Europe. In the 16th century Poland formed a Commonwealth with Lithuania. At its apogee, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth comprised some 400,000 square miles and a multi-ethnic population of 11 million, which lasted till 1791, almost two centuries.
Europe was so threatened by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that it had to invade Poland from all sides and take it apart into three parts. And thus so, over a hundred years there was no Poland on the maps of Europe. The three occupants- Russia, Prussia and Austria-Hungary tried to assmiliate Polish people into their own by banishing polish language, first of all as well as culture and the government.
Poland gained its independance only in 1918 to be invaded all over again in 1939 and the rest you know, I hope. Full indepedance was gained in 1989. So over two hundred years of occupation, its been only 18 years since Poland is a sovereign country.
Poland battled other countries for centuries with many wonderful victories. Poland always had its own army, its own generals and officers. So to say that Polish pilots were serving in Royal Air Force is a slap on the face. Poland had and has its own army, its own generals, its own pilots and its own Air Force, Hudson, never surrendering.
This post and your second post has nothing to do with the Battle of Britain. But the fact was they were serving with the RAF and with great pride. This is historical fact. Why don't you talk to your Polish military about it. They will agree with me on this. I will later post some historical facts about the Yalta conference.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
sun devil, thank u for ur great knowledge and ur desire to ram it down my throat. I as a british passport holder, actually states United Kingdom of Great Britian and actually born in ENGLAND, will use the terminology i am accostomed to as many of my countrymen will also do. Right or wrong, I dont think its an issue here. Rudeness must be really cheap where u come from, u seem to have stocked up well on it. Actually I can still laugh at ur remarks because contrary to Hudson and Iperson who are posting some very interesting facts, not a lot to do with immigration, and who might not agree with each other, but are still managing to keep this little debate extremely interesting reading, urs on the other hand is petty uninformative bs. If all u have to comment on is how one calls a country all acceptable by the way ... please feel free to attack my person verbally again, I really dont take it personal its actually starting to bore me. I wish you would post something informative and correct. And not misinformed and petty.
The above post has nothing to do with what you were saying Hudson, only with what you were implying. And that is that Polish Air Forces didn't exist and had to be fighting in RAF, instead of under its own flag. The squadrons you've enumerated were fighting for RAF, true, but only to supplement RAF which was lacking British pilots, as part of the Alliance. All the polish pilots still were answering to the Polish Air Force, not the British.
I gave you a short run of history to show you that Poland had its own army and its own identity, which you were implying it did not.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: iperson,
iperson. Great threads, loved reading them. Question for you though ur the historian obviously upon us, when i was in Germany I heard a lot of talk that a part of Germany was now Poland? Was it Poland then Germany then back to Poland, or was it Germany and Poland got a portion of it? I have no idea what portion, but I hope u can enlighten. : ) As for England, United Kingdom, Great Britian. Its all one and the same as those with any inkling of Geography and common sense knows. All perfectly correct terminologies. Thanks.
Thanks for your question. As you see on the map I provided the link for, a part of the Poland we have today was not Polish for some time. The western parts of Poland belonged to Germany, but also for a period of time. The history of Europe throughout the thousand years of its existence was tumultous, with so many changes in borders that its hard to track what actually was originally whose land, you know what I mean? You're welcome to study the history from other sources and see how Europe developed.
Originally posted by Honey: Hey, Hudson: there were many Czech pilots, you know?
The point was not which nationalities were in the RAF, but the how the RAF defended Great Britain. The organizational structure, the use of both new and old technology and the efficiency of delivering the proper amount of its extremely limited resources to counter the attack is why Great Britain won the battle. That was the point and the only point, Honey.
Yes, but all different nations who fought in the RAF must not be neglected.
The point was not which nationalities were in the RAF, but the how the RAF defended Great Britain.
OMG, Honey tell me if I am seeing this correctly, or else my blood veins are going to start popping out immediately.
Are you Hudson saying that the Polish and Chech pilots in the battle of Britain were actually serving in RAF??? OMG OMG OMG! This is this kind of ignorance I am talking about here all the time. I hope you are going to correct this fast or else I'll put you on my ignore list from now on.
Iperson, take it easy! Please, neglect some Hudsons’ comments – he might be an educated guy or … I think he graduated from Yale, right? Well, this is not a really bad school; I actually met some graduates who had a little knowledge (comparable to our High School) but still. Americans cannot put themselves in our shoes and that is one of the reasons why the rest of the World loves them so much.
Great pride is still honored amoung the senior Polish people who still remember and lived those days. However, your reaction shows something completely different.
Ok, so according to you Hudson, the Polish pilots, among them the Kosciszko Squadron that took down the most enemy planes during the Battle of Britain, should be proud to have served for RAF? Or should it be the other way? Great Britain should be proud that our Polish pilots helped to win the Air Battle? Well?
Honey, I'm cool. It's just irritating how people are demeaning my nation in all sorts of ways, as if Poland was a peasant country growing cabbage and didn't have literate people in it. If only you read Polish Literature how beautiful it is and learned our history. Did you for example know that our King Jan III Sobieski won the final battle with Ottoman Empire in 1683 and forever threw the Turks out of Europe? Who knows what would Europe look like if not the Polish Husaria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Szarza_Husarii.jpg Those were Polish military with the fancy wings copied all over Europe later on. More about the Hussars here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar
And about the King Jan III Sobieski, one of the most notable monarchs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Sobieski
Add to del.icio.us
them so much.