I hope you are not implying that undocumented immigrants from Mexico are the terriorists we fear.As to the question on ,will they give their correct address when applying for a license? Probably not, but why force them to further break the law when all they are doing is working to support their families.

quote:

Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
No, not everyone benefits. Only illegal alien freeloaders benefit. Once again, Americans will get the shaft.

Illegal aliens in New York shouldn't hold their breath waiting for this to actually be enacted. The opposition to this proposal is intense, and it is illegal under the terms of REAL ID.

If you were to be involved in an accideent you'd be hooping and hollering that you were hit by an illegal alien with no license. If they obtain one you'll still be upset and hooping and hollering.

whether it's enacted or not - it's more PUBLICITY. Ha-Ha-Ha, to you again you racist sick poor hurting no-wife feeling all alone still can't get it out of ur system that you hurt from the immigrant you married and wherever you come from and here now - like a reformed prostitute. u.

quote:

Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
Chuck: What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand exactly? If "everyone benefits," then why is the proposal so controversial?

The "ditto" is obviously for my post.

Ditto again!

Because of so many stupid people that's why.

Get Real! 15,000,000 undocumented immigrants. Anyone who has any sense of history understands that these people are in the U.S. working and supporting families and we are not going to drive them out by just adding more obstacles in their way. Let us not make them an underclass and then have our children suffer the consequences.

Hi Chuck

if you are addressing the mexico thing to me.. Where in my post did I say anything about mexicans. I was speaking about illegals/undocumented. It is a large population out there.. OMG there are seriously large numbers of undocumented out there other than mexicans. Asian, arabics , Carribian,slavics, canadians,Nigerians, Africans, UK ,South americans, ukrainians people.. I know you only relate to mexicans when you speak of undocs, and other issues, but I dont. Now it is true that many of these
peoples did sneak in thru mexico, b/c thats how its been done. But there are large numbers that come in boats from asia, and other places.

Chuck.. like I told you . I know they are trying to feed the families and live a better life, but stop blaming USA for these problems about not making life easier.

You say even yourself that they probably wont give correct address. So whats in it for USA to give them license... its a one sided benefit. iT IS THE responsibilty of those governing countries to resolve their issues. In your case you relate to mexico and have lived there I think. Surely you must have a solution or opinion for what is wrong. and solution/opinion on what you think will fix it.

Chuck what is your take on US citizens having to stand on wait list for apartments or housing that has been occupied by illegals? Now you have americans who had a right to those places, but now they are not available because an illegal has rented that place. do you think that is fair? and this happens b/c many states do not allow landlords to make legal status a criteria for renting. its totally out of control about many issues like this, and many small towns are becoming very frustrated with this whole illegal immigration thing.

Chuck - give it time for ICE to make all their raids and immplement their social security rules as they have in litigation at present. I read where Chertifoff said they want to force Congress to inact an immigration policy. This is going to go on for a while until there is an outbreak of riots and it gets bad. Thtats expected to come they know it might. The states are trying to do what they can do to their own interest and this can't last forever but it's not bad enough yet for Congress to step in and so something. Can yu believe the U.S. Congress is letting this happen in the U.S.? It's a disgrace that the U.S. can't get their act together. It's almost like they don't want to but they are trying to temporarily side with the Republican anti-immigrants and maybe after they prove to them and let them relax they'll know the border security is going to be enacted and what else can you say? The U.S. surely looks quite falleable especially after the 9/11, Katrina and now the Iraq war.

Chertoff knows where all this heading. They're pushing these raids to prove their doing their jobs. They're also doing it to upset the U.S. populus and see what's going to result and wait for Congress to action. Wait and see how much occurs up to the tme there's a new president and ICE has made it so bad and all states have enacted their own laws and chaos has broken out. It's not happened yet for Congress to step in - not bad enough yet. Until then expect all this krap to go on.

You may be right. How sad, to have to come to this, to bring about a reform.

You're very smart ourtopper. I totally agree.

4now, for some reason E's words are ringing in my ears. It's as if he predicted this whole thing. He said that there are going to be raids, families separated, no immigration law enacted, until about 2009 with a new president in office.

Btw, 4now, aren't you a little bit stretching the housing situation? The real estate market is going through some trying times, and you can buy a house nowadays for very cheap. Americans are buying houses, not renting. There are plenty empty apartments around. You know this, do you?

chuck, my friend, Sorry to say but where else do you think this is going? Its going to have to manifest itself like a monster. Then when it's so out-of-hand and depending on what it's considered to be so, then action will be taken. Look at what all the states are doing with enacting their own laws, other cities within those states don't want to comply, other cities want licenses - others don't - this wants this and others want that - don't rent to illegals and into court now - read up on all of this. It's totally unreal what is happening. This has all started after the reform didn't pass. It was like a 'free for all' after that dont you think? These changes weren't occurring before the session the session with the reform hearings! Now each state and city within is going bonkers with their own laws.

Give it time and see what happens. This is just a start. It's not what 'whoever' would consider it to be out of control yet where something is going to have to be done.

More raids, more publicity about businesses closing down, more publicity about ICE screwing up wearing cowboy hats and getting bad publicity and more legal persons getting caught in raids, and more more of a whole lot more happening before anything is really going to be done.

Chertoff has already said that they hope they can force Congress into doing something by performing all these raids, etc. and to get them to do something since they didn't before.

regardless of what's going on right now, which is not good, it's going to have to get worse and be approved by the anti-immigrants, get their opinion that something has to be done, before any government organization is going to step in and say hey, we have to now do something about this situation. Can you believe all that's going on rightr now? This started after the failure of the reform. they all came out in force.

quote:

Originally posted by 4now:
Hi Chuck

if you are addressing the mexico thing to me.. Where in my post did I say anything about mexicans. I was speaking about illegals/undocumented. It is a large population out there.. OMG there are seriously large numbers of undocumented out there other than mexicans. Asian, arabics , Carribian,slavics, canadians,Nigerians, Africans, UK ,South americans, ukrainians people.. I know you only relate to mexicans when you speak of undocs, and other issues, but I dont. Now it is true that many of these
peoples did sneak in thru mexico, b/c thats how its been done. But there are large numbers that come in boats from asia, and other places.

Chuck.. like I told you . I know they are trying to feed the families and live a better life, but stop blaming USA for these problems about not making life easier.

You say even yourself that they probably wont give correct address. So whats in it for USA to give them license... its a one sided benefit. iT IS THE responsibilty of those governing countries to resolve their issues. In your case you relate to mexico and have lived there I think. Surely you must have a solution or opinion for what is wrong. and solution/opinion on what you think will fix it.

Chuck what is your take on US citizens having to stand on wait list for apartments or housing that has been occupied by illegals? Now you have americans who had a right to those places, but now they are not available because an illegal has rented that place. do you think that is fair? and this happens b/c many states do not allow landlords to make legal status a criteria for renting. its totally out of control about many issues like this, and many small towns are becoming very frustrated with this whole illegal immigration thing.

4now - those rental/lease issues are a law and have been. A person can walk up to a place and ask if there's a vacancy with let's say an apt., and the owner/manager doesn't like the color of the person's skin he can say no, no I don't have vacancy. That's only as long as he didn't advertise it publicly.

It was an issue for many years about black people not being granted a rental etc. because of their skin color and so laws changed. That's why you don't have them asking about legal status.

Credit check, i.d. etc. but asking for legal status is of only recent if somebody does. Guess what? If they've already received monies from the renters they can't do anything about it if they find out they're illegabl unless they are under some rule like Farmer's Branch wanted to enact and they were going to allow the spouse of a U.S. citizen to continue to live there and children.

The only reasons all these small towns or large ones are taking issue with it is because the reform didn't pass and they are all taking liberty with changing their laws. Back to what we said before was that tenants haven't been questioned for years about status and I mean for years so this isn't anything new that you are questioning. It's been a law not to question. Don't blame the immigrants here. I wouldn't want to be questioned about my status. Just the way it's been.

Here’s the rules wrt CA:
Birth date verification and legal presence requirements
The issue of identification reliability, integrity, and confidentiality is of prime concern to all citizens. Eligibility for government services, issuance of various licenses, assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents. It is critical that identification documents be authenticated and accurate in identifying each individual. The California driver license and ID card have been declared as primary identification documents in this state by the California legislature.
State law requires every applicant for an original California identification (ID) card and driver license to show verification of birth date and proof of legal presence within the United States to help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of departmental documents

Immigration Requirements
Verification of U.S. Citizenship and Lawful Status
§202(c)(2)(A), (B) • Before issuing a DL/ID, a state shall require and verify valid documentary evidence that the person: (i) is a U.S. citizen, (ii) is an alien lawfully admitted for permanent or temporary residence, (iii) has a conditional permanent resident status, (iv) ) is a refugee or has been granted asylum, (v) has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status, (vi) has a pending application for asylum, (vii) has a pending or approved application for temporary protected status, (viii) has approved deferred status, or (ix) has a pending application for adjustment of status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence or conditional permanent resident status

The rules in Northern California is that you are pulled over w/o a CA DL (which you have to get within 10 days of arrival) the car is impounded (typically $200 impound fee and $1800 tow fee).

The insurance company (e.g. Allstate) will write you a policy; not clear if they will honor it , but in any event when you have no valid DL you are ALWAYS at fault. Further, un/underinsured drivers will cover damages to your car if hit by an illegal (or even if you hit them, since they are at fault)

You said 'northern CA?' What about the rest of the state is it the same? Allstate in the southeastern states is reciprocal and there's some ways around things. One just has to know how to do it.

Sorry Trooper


I think you missed the point I was trying to make with Chuck.. am very well aware of the laws.. thats my point about these small towns being very upset and frustrated because they feel powerless to do anything about the illegals based on these laws.

I am not blaming immigrants as you say. I am placing the blame with legislature that enables illegals. Immigrants are people who have assimilated into the country in a legal way. Illegals are not suppoosed to be here according to law. Illegal does not equal immigrant.. two very different things.

Nobody wants to be questioned about their status, but Patriot act changed that.

My point to chuck is .. whether it is legal or not ... does he think it is fair?

apolgies if I misunderstood but 4now, the U.S. has turned a blind eye to the illegals for many many years. They could've started all these raids a long time ago but the U.S. didn't and they waited until the populus complained about too many being in their towns. When there weren't many - nobody complained because the illegals worked and were on one side of town. A few years ago when it became stricter they didn't leave for fear of not being able to cross back over and therefore began to pay for their families to come and join them and they then became more of a population that the residents saw as encroaching on what was before and more complaints therefore followed and it became more nationally known that there were more illegals than before - more visible. The U.S. government didn't acknowledge it until it was more in the media. 4now, really, you've got to look at the U.S. government for letting this go on and on. It's been a benefit. There's been talk for the last couple of years about not having a young work force etc. they've got their statistics on what we need in the future. Some will leave, get deported, and so on and then it will leave a certain amt of illegals here and when the reform comes in a couple years they'll know how many they'll have here. There was a representative or another government official that made a statement about how many would leave etc. they have their stats and what to expect. I read a lot in those letters under that Mex exploit topic about all this. There was a lot of articles talking about everything we can discuss here. Thats helped me to stay up on all this that's going on.

Fair? Is it fair when a government officials agricultural field doesn't get raided because of who he is? Then an onion field has a checksite near there to nab illegals? There is some of those higher ups that have ownership and nothig ever happens to them.

A real world case. I was in an accident with an illegal. Mexican license and no insurance. Guess what. They tried to scam my insurance company by saying someone else was in the car who had a valid licence. Lucky for me I got her Mexican license which I was able to provide to the insurance co. In the end they got away without any liability. So where is the justice in that. They have no respect for our laws and tried to dodge their responsibility. What did they say? 'Oh your rich you can afford to fix your own car, ef you, make us pay.' To think I didn't call the cops. I should have. Does anyone think by offering a DL that it will improve anything. Not likely. It will just make that many more uninsured cars on the road.

An illegal Mexican with no regard for America or its laws?? I can't imagine such a thing!! Next, you're going to tell us that the illegal Mexican who hit your car was also arrogant and thought that they were here "saving" America from all of the "lazy and uneducated" Americans!!

No, they're just "good-hearted people" here to make a better life for themselves. They respect America and would never scam or take advantage. They would never accept a welfare check or food stamps!! They would never think of breaking the law, and they're all assimilating and learning to speak English!! Moreover, they would NEVER march in the streets of America while waving the Mexican rag and screaming "Viva Mexico!!"

...and then the American people woke up and realized that the reality is entirely different from the politically-correct nonsense stated above. Deport them ALL.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel. I know where they live!

Where does one start. Your first sentence may be a hint that they have no U.S. state drivers license and were unable to get insurance without having one. For sure this would be so in the state I live in.

The forth line of your post really is over the top and indicates your true colors. Did you really mean to say, "They have no respect......etc" which implies all undocumented immigrants are the same. Come on....