There is still howevere something wrong in our system and easy excess guns and Rifles.

Especially if a 19 year old person,can walk into walkmart in the United States, buy a 6 pack of budlight and a Rifles with bullets.
He will be allowed to purchase the Rifles and Bullets,but has to leave the very extreme dangerous six pack of beer behind,because its a danger to society lol

PS: Jake01, don't u love it though,when people who have never lived in a system that provides free universal health care,talking it down and how it even though they never been in to that country before,no lived there before...

Jake,you are right we in the US pay almost as much tax as most socialist european countries,and do not even have 30% of what they have.

Davdah, U must have some nervs talking about "people can get government health care etc" Guess what U can not.

Here is the deal and please do not argue with me,since I know this for fact.
Listen I lived in a social system.I am an R.N. in a big Hospital and say patients come and go every single day with problems and issues about bills and insurance and coverage.

Now...In our country the U.S. not you,your employer who u work for gets and provides you with health insurance and that is not even mandatory,its every employers option.
So if someone works somewhere for a living,but the employer does not provie health insurance, jabronies like you,who have no knoweldge would say " buy your own insurance "
Here is the problem.If someone wants to buy in our country his own health insurance,he first needs to get approved,meaning..its like applying to have health insurance,and being denied because of being too over weight nor having too many past illnesses.
Andif someone is able to his own insurance and is approved,that person will pay his a.s.s. of even being able to keep up with the high monthly premiums,plus not to mention,the deductibles,co pays etc...

And U say,the government has free health care to those in need etc...

Listen...if a person maks over 15 grand a year,he is earning too much to have some health insurance for free etc..

Not even the poor get health insurance...

U do not know what I see every day at the hospital...

people being treated and crying because of the medical bill they will face,even with insurance.

Do you know,the number one reason for bankrupcy in our country is medical bills????

Do you think any german,british french citizen has this problem,or even close????

Because of having a system as we do here in the US today,people and dr.'s and even nurses can get sued.

No other european countries has this problem with law suits either...

95% of all american physicians and surgens,would prefer universal health care run by the government.

Whats the benefit of universal health care????

Every single person is covered.
There is no such thing as Co Pays, Deductibles,
Higher permuims.
No private insurance companies deciding wheter u can or can not have surgery.
The DR. alone decides whats best for you,without having waste his time with someone on the phone.
Anything and everyhting is covered under universal health care,unless its cosmetics.

U can see any dr. within the whole country...
U can havex rays, bloodworks...and not having to worry about if its gonna cost you anything

No limit how often u can see a dr. a year and no limit how often u can use your dental..its unlimited.
Free hospital and doctor visits.

The list is endless,than you have those d.ummies...who have never lived in countries like that,saying **** like " in those countries,u have to wait for months to see a dr"
The doctors and treatment there are not good, or stuff like " those countries are financially going down"

All those countries doing better than ever...

Did I mention u can get a free college education as well? up to a PH.D????

I paid more money for in 1 semester in the U.S. just for my books than a PHD graduate from a univsersity in europe,who spent 8 years in school,spending and graduating without owing a penny to no one.Cause its free

Like I said, it tells you alot about a humans/ person personality....if someone beliefs in human rights and believes everyone should have health insurance and be covered and have free education and see's health insurance and education as Right and not as privilege.

Now U use your opinion,what it tells you about someone character who believes the other way.

Cause I like to believe I am caring person and not selfish and am smart enough to know and realize and agree,paying a bit more tax benefits everyone and helps everyone...

Its WE and not ME.

FACTS ABOUT THE COUNTRIES YOU CONVENIENTLY FAILED TO MENTON (Source CIA FACTBOOK)

GERMAN Life Expect 78.95 GDP Per Capita $31,900 GDP Growth 2.7% Unemployment 7.1%

FRENCH Life Expect 80.59 GDP Per Capita $31,100 GDP Growth 2.1 % Unemplyment 8.7%

BRITISH Lie Expect 78.7 GDP Per Capita $31,800 GDP growth 2.8 % Unemplyment 2.9 %

UNITED STATES Life Expect 78 GDP Per Capita $44,000 GDP growth 3.2% %Unemployment 4.4 %

The US has $13,000 a year more in per capita over all three countries; about 33 % Greater than these countries. The "free" health care is costing them $13K a year. The US GDP is also growing 50 % greater GDP growth, the US has half the unempoyment ofmost of these coutries. Furthermore, the US has the highest home ownership rates in the world. Our lifespan is the same or greater considering the effect of shorter lived blacks in the US bringing down the average.

Of course doctors would rather have the government run them; they would have to answer to no one for their incomptence and laziness. Accountability - who needs that ! The United States is the premier destination for those people wealthy to enough to afford the best medical care. Those who can afford to come to America do. The rest just die or suffer. Great system you support.

The United States us the premier destination for students to attend Universities. Degrees from the best European Universities mean little or nothing compared to a degree from the worst schools in the United States.

And one final proof of the superiority of our system is that you are still here rather than there. If you think it is so great, go there; no one is stopping you.

A couple points. It isn't nerve that makes me say health care is available. Don't take it personal. I'm not a jabronie (what ever that is) You made some errors and I'm not being vindictive. So lets keep it civil without the name calling.

Can a person get free health care here? Yes they can. In California its called Medi-cal.
If I'm not mistaken every state has similar programs.

In my case I am the employer. My employees refused health care since they didn't want to pay for it. The premiums are high. For myself its just over 250 a month. The state also has programs for reduced cost insurance based on your income. One of my employees is using that herself. The resources are there. It may take a little research to find them.


As a last resort don't pay the bill. That is what closed many hospitals in Los Angeles. Which brings up another question. If the health care is so bad here compared to free countries why come here to have a baby? A rhetorical question but it illustrates quite a bit. The litigious part of the medical industry has gotten out of hand which is a big part of the reason for high medical costs. Its not completely sour though. Because the possibility of being sued exists it has a side benefit to it. Everyone concerned is less likely to slough off on the job if they know it may have severe consequences.

There are countries like Russia where education is free. An open question. Would you rather have a heart transplant done in Russia or here?
I'll stay here because like most would agree no one appreciates the things they get for free.

I won't argue its expensive and it has caused numerous bankruptcies. A couple weeks ago my girlfriend cut her hand opening a can. It required a few stitches and two visits. So far the bill is up to about 1000.00 and counting. Since she isn't on my insurance had to pay out of pocket. She probably could have gotten Medi-Cal. They offered it to her at the hospital. But I decided against that since I do have the capability to cover it.

The main point I would like to make is the best is never free or even cheap. Our country leads the world in innovation across the board. Part of it is due to plain capitalism. You invent a cure for something you will get rich. A good motivator. If your in a free country there isn't much to motivate you to go beyond the call of duty aside compassion.

About Bud light. It does have the potential to be very dangerous. A 3000lb vehical with a drunk at the wheel is dangerous. I would be willing to bet your facility see more victims of drunk driving than gun fire. That being the case we should ban bud light.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
Although this post started out as a joke it has turned into a real issue. Imagine that!

HBK you have made a few errors. For one any idiot can not walk into walmart and buy a gun. Especially if it is a pistol. I don't think walmart even sells handguns any more. If you want to buy a handgun there is a waiting period and you have to pass a written test with an emphasis on safety. Rifles also have a waiting period now. I can't say if a test is required on rifles since I haven't bought one. Aside from that our constitution says we can have a gun.

I agree we need regulation. No one really needs a fully automatic Uzi or a rocket launcher. But there is nothing wrong with having any number of other types.

To compare a state run medical program to a commercial one is fairly easy. Look at the medical program provided by welfare and one by a insurance carrier. I would much rather be in the hands of Kaiser than Medi-Cal. The for profit insurance companies focus on prevention since it is better for their bottom line and also our own health. A win win situation. The state run programs don't care one way or the other. They generally provide the minimum level of care to get by.

The only real benefit with the welfare program is you don't pay for it. Or so it seems. No one wants to pay for medical expenses. The truth is it isn't for free. The tax rates they have in countries with the supposed free stuff programs is astronomical.

If we look at old laws in various European countries I'm sure we could find some that were just as bad as the Jim Crow laws.

There is a 7 day waiting period for handgun purchases as well as 20 plus states having the gun show loop hole clause. it is also the reason why I believe that if one purchases a firearm, one should show due dillagence in restraint as well as use of the firearm. That is why I am more in favor of gun education by private organizations, local police enforcement, and other groups so that the 35000 or so gun accidents can be reduced dramitically, and not by eliminating the purchase of guns by private citizens (true gun control).

Anyone who thinks California is a model for any kind of economic system is nuts. I have spent a lot of time there and it is insane. It has attracted all the homeless people from all over the country (because of its "free" medical care no doubts !) Did you forget the fiasco when CA tried to take over the electricity? Sure it was free, and almost caused the State to go bankrupt and people to lose electricity and in some cases die (oops !). And as far as Russia, you would be insane to get anything medical done there. As a matter of fact, I did consider getting my hair transplant there and it was cheaper (and better) in the USA.

I guess you need to be talked to like children since you have a child's mentality; NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. Someone has to work and pay for things. Nothing is free. Its not like we are little babies and Mommy and Daddy buy us things. Government is not and should not be our surrogate Mommy and Daddy. We are supposed to be responsible adults. Stop the "immigrant mentality" that you need government to hold your hand and take care of you. Get a job and pay your own way. Accept responsibility. Accept freedom. This is called individual responsibility. THIS IS FREEDOM. Some can't handle it (Read Eric Fromm "Escape from freedom" explaining the rise of Nazi Germany from a psychlogical POV).

This is why the American Medical system is the envy of the world. The only people that support socialized medicine are the people that don't have it !

I remember the electricity blunder. It was The then Governor who had the bright idea of signing long term energy contracts with suppliers who created an artificial electricity shortage. Similar to the gas shortages of the 70's that caused the initial huge hikes in fuel prices. They never learn their lessons.


No free medical service in texas? How do you explain this?

http://www.freemedicalcamps.com/vcity.php?stateid=TX


He is a capitalist after all. Didn't want people to know about the free stuff to keep them going to his hospital so he can pay his lawyers fees so he can get his PR. Good trick HBK. (lol). Its ok, we won't tell.

Yea ; good luck at one of those clinics !!

For all the free health care freeloaders; just a quick question; why do you bother staying in the US when all these countries are "free" to live in? Or go to CA or TX. Sounds like a great deal; what is stopping you from leaving the US (CA and TX no longer count as being in the US due to their idiocy. Why not catch the next flight out of here? There must be some reason;(excluding the fact that you are lying of course)?

And now for the rest of the country.

http://www.freemedicalcamps.com/

The point made of quality. I wonder if the free service available at these clinics is on par with what you would get at a for fee hospital like the one HBK works at. Survey says, not on your life. You get what you pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by SonofMichael:
Yea ; good luck at one of those clinics !!

For all the free health care freeloaders; just a quick question; why do you bother staying in the US when all these countries are "free" to live in? Or go to CA or TX. Sounds like a great deal; what is stopping you from leaving the US (CA and TX no longer count as being in the US due to their idiocy. Why not catch the next flight out of here? There must be some reason;(excluding the fact that you are lying of course)?

HBKHBK has got it a little wrong, it is not entirely free, we do pay for it, just as you do with medical insurance, we pay into NHS infact we pay into Social Security, and I think Bush at one time was saying about this. the amount is based on what you earn, like another tax, probably like your state tax. but this payment gives us free hospital, and doctor visits, and free dental up to a certain age, depending on if you are still studying, it also gives us a state pension. I was explaining this to davdah in another thread.

Dav, you are wrong.
Our hospital and as many others ALWAYS treat people for free if its ONLY an emergency.

Aka,you are brought to the hospital with a serious injury etc..and U are poor and not even have an ID on ya aka homeless etc...

But if you go with no insurance to an ER because of a major headache, you won;t be seen,especially not if you are not even working etc.

Look,u talk like there is only gray and black.But there is also blue.

SO don;t tell me abour rusia,whent there is england,france italy and germany around it.

Germany has for example best leading dental work and experience.
The thing in the US with us is...we have the best stuff,we have everything...
its not about who has the best health treatment and maybe cure,its about getting it.

Yeah we in the US lead about alot of stuff with special surgery and what not.That has however nothing to do with it.

I give you an example my friend, and by the way "jabronie" is not a bad thing lol

Here is my example though.Assume you are a resident from germany or england or france right now right,but U are also living in the US as a citizen or resident.
Now imagine and hope God that will never happen.Your son or your wife,would get a very bad cancer,and will need a transplant.Your insurance most likely will fight to death not to pay for it,or agree to pay maybe 30% of it,which would still ruin your financially,since a tranplant ususally starts with a cost of 200 to 300 thouhsand dollars..and with all the treatments,and meds after the surgery more.
Most insurance companies try anything and everyhting to avoid these cost,or deny simple the coverage...
Now imagine this happens to your family and U are also a resident of germany,or france etc.

You would fly to germany have her treated there,have the surgery there...and not having to worry about the cost what so ever.
Thats the thing...
Thats what I would do...and anyone else...unless u are super rich and wouldn't care about couple hundred grands

I mean I have dental insruance....I had to get a crown a year ago,which i think I mentioned here before.Even with my dental insurance,my crown,with rootcanal would have cost me 1800 bucks.

Guess what i did,I took a week off from work, flew to germany for 5 days,and the 3rd day of my visit in germany I visted my dentist there and have all that stuff done for ZERO money.
And my whole trip cost me 850 bucks...so I basically saved another 800 bucks and had a nice vacation and saw my family for a week.


I keep telling this story to my co workers and doctors and U know what the physicians say to me when I tell them that.
"That tells you,whats wrong with our health carse system" these are physicians who safe live,highly educated people.Knowing and agreeing with our health care system problem.

And by the way,the dental work is a good as any dentist would have done here in the U.S. maybe even better.

PS: Jake, I know what U mean I probabaly said it wrong.Yes we pay for it through taxes of other forms,social security and so forth.
U pay into the health care system which is a single payer system...

Perhaps it varies by state. In California they have a sign posted in the ER that says more or less you will not be denied service because of inability to pay. There wasn't any qualification factors such as seriousness of injury or ailment. There are a lot of people who use the ER for simple colds and fevers.

I did something similar to what you did for dental work. In my case I went to Mexico to get work done that would have cost around 30,000 for about 2000. Nothing wrong with saving a buck or two.

I still question the wisdom of a tax based medical system. If its so wonderful why haven't we adopted it? There must be something inherently wrong with it that keeps us from jumping on board. I believe it may have something to do with taking it out of the free market. That one factor would do a lot to stifle any innovation.