Hello guyz, i have a couple questions about " The Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act " bill introduced by senator Mccain and kennedy. My questions are," 1-how likely is this bill to pass the senate and the house and be law? 2- how soon could they vote on this bill and if the bill is passed, will it be enacted right away?
my other question is, i havent heard any news about the bill since it's been introduced on may 12th 2005..is this bad news or does it take a lot of time to get a vote etc etc?
my last question is can this bill be turned into law before the month of june is over or even before december? the reason im asking is because a friend of mine is schedule for a date with an immigration judge and if this bill could be passed in time, he could adjust his status before the december date.
Usually, it takes many months for a proposal to work its way through the legislative process. There is no chance that it will become law before the end of June 2005, and it's almost impossible that it will be enacted before December either. In my opinion, the proposal has very little chance of actually becoming law at any time, as the American people are opposed to any type of amnesty for illegal aliens. Furthermore, until the borders are secured and current laws are enforced, this proposed amnesty is a terrible idea, as it will simply encourage even more illegal immigration. I live in Arizona, and we are literally being inundated with illegal immigrants...many parts of Phoenix are beginning to resemble a third-world city. People illegally sell fruit on street corners, and tacos from the trunk of their cars in parking lots. You have to endure this after you have run the gauntlet of illegal day laborers hanging out everywhere else. Oh, and they naturally expect that you speak their foreign language because you couldn't possibly be politically incorrect enough to expect that they should be learning English. You think that I'm kidding? Why do you think that Arizona voters passed Proposition 200 in November 2004, in an attempt to deny state services to illegal aliens?
ok, thanks for the reply, although i feel your answer was very bias cause it seem you are against any type of immigration reform that would attemp to fix the u.s immigration problem instead of the status quo.. i would like some other user to comment on this thread please someone that's a little bit fair minded about our immigration problem i really want to know what are this bill chance of passing.. also what happen to the dream act bill anyone know?
jean I'm a immigrant too, i'm praying on this "bill Act", but I don't think that's gonna pass on senate anyway... let's cross our fingers and pray. And like "sun" said, if it pass, it's gonna take longer than you hope... I whish luck to your friend
You need an education on the American legislative process. The bill has to pass BOTH the Senate and the House in order to become law. Even if it passes in the Senate, it still has to get through the House, which is even more unlikely.
The DREAM Act still hasn't been re-introduced for consideration. If a bill isn't passed in a session of Congress, then it starts the process over again.
ok thanx..i guess our hope are all shattered once again..pfff..once i heard this bill was introduced, i was really upbeat but i guess it's not met to be, specially this bill came from well known republicans such as senator mccain and everyone knows republican hates anything that arent american born and if they had their way, we would see massive deportation take place right before our eyes.
America needs to understand that massive deportation is unacceptable, so is the way it is currently. something have to be done, this bill not only put a huge fine($2000) on all illegal immigrant that overstayed and work here and help contribute to the american way but it enforce border patrol to help keep the border safe n all...but first, something have to be done about the millions of people that are already here we can not throw them into concentration camp then throw them out the coutry(many of them were here since they were very young) Maybe they should go ahead and pass a bill that would allow police men to go house to house all over the country and deport anyone that cant prove they are here legally..this would be a very sad day for this country that was buil based on immigrants
What you need to understand is that we had an amnesty of almost 3 million illegal aliens in 1986 and because of it, have ended up with several times that, as well as much heavier legal immigration. Furthermore, the enforcement that was promised with this "one time" amnesty never materialized. Would you believe any politician now who says that amnesty would "cure" illegal immigration? then, there's the little matter of cost. Most illegal aliens don't have the education or skills to rise above the working poor even if they were legal. Legalization would mean giving them access to many welfare programs they are not now entitled to.
What is needed is not mass deportation but enforcement of the laws against employing illegal aliens, and the means to do it (secure IDs, SSNs, entry-exit verification). But if there isn't strong proof that the government can and will enforce any immigration laws it enacts, you won't be seeing any amnesties.
By the way, I read something today where Dubya is working with Kyl and another Senator on a guest worker program where there would be no amnesty, no way to become a citizen. So, competition between the two bills isn't likely to help matters, either.
you need to understand that the '86 bill and the one that was presented weeks ago are completly different although i never seen it but i cant imagine that mccain would stand in front of congress and present the same exact bill cause i just dont believe it and please why people that are against the bill always refers to it as an amnesty bill it is not an amnesty bill it has its regulation someone that came to the u.s a couple months ago wont just be able to apply for citizenship but somehow it's what people that are against it want you to believe. Also, i dont beleive most of the country is against immigration reform that would attemp to fix our immigration problem i think it's more a republican and democrat thing..republican dont believe that people should come here in search of a better life, and if they had their way everyone would be deported and democrat are for immigration reform because they realise that this country is based on immigrants values.
"it hardly makes sense to deport 11 million people. Just imagine the dragnets and roundups and forced family breakups. It would also devastate the economy, both locally and nationwide. As poll after poll shows, what Americans want is control: a secure, orderly, legal immigration system. But we can't build that new, sound structure on a rotten foundation - so we've got to do something about the illegal immigrants already here
Just a thought: if you reward illegal aliens for breaking our immigration laws, people who have shown a disregard for our sovereignty, you simply encourage more and more illegal immigration. This fact was proven after the last amnesty in 1986.
Furthermore, if people can just come to America illegally in the expectation of an amnesty, why would anyone wait in line for years and years in their home countries in order to immigrate legally?
Senator McCain's proposed amnesty has no realistic provision for actively securing the border. Therefore, in the unlikely event that his proposal becomes law, you suddenly have twelve million newly-legalized and under-educated workers competing for low-skill jobs with several million newly-arrived illegal immigrants waiting for the next bleeding heart amnesty.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: SunDevilUSA,
Jean--Any bill which says that people who broke the law aren't punished for it and get to keep what they broke the law for is an amnesty. A fine, or any other so called penalty is hardly punishment--just a delayed fee. McCain-Kennedy is an amnesty and that's the way most Americans view it; ditto, a "guest worker" program that doesn't require illegal aliens to leave the country in order to apply. Congressmen and the President can keep calling these bills what they like--if they don't require illegal aliens to leave, and let them "legalize" here, then they're rewarding law breaking and that is an amnesty.
And just how would these bills "fix" our immigration problem? By telling people we're not serious about our immigration laws; that all they have to do is come, and there'll be another amnesty? There are literally billions of people in this world who would like the opportunity to come here for economic advantage--are we supposed to admit all these on "guest worker" programs? What will the ones who don't get on such programs do? You guessed it--come illegally. Enforcement of immigration law, whatever it is, has to come before anything else. If government can enforce the laws with "amnesty", it can enforce them without it.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: AliBA,
Immigration reform and all its many heads is a topic that will be dealt with eventually no matter what side of the line that you stay on. It is not true that most americans are against immigration reform but what is true is that a lot of senate seats are up for grabs next year and hardly any senator wants to jeapordize their seat for immigration reform. All we hear is the borders need to be secure..the borders need to be secure but this government has done nothing to correct the problem. As long as people can come into the US with no papers..we will always be at risk from terrorist attacks and thats the bottom line. The american people were willing to support the government invade a land on the premise that there were weapons of Mass destruction due to the FEAR of another attack after 9/11 yet are against regulating undocumented in this land along with securing the borders? How much sense does that make and when another attack occurs....as many terror experts predict....what will the american people say then? That immigration reform and regulation of borders was low priority? Lets be realistic ..the average american does not care about immigration. The average american is too busy trying to get ahead and be something than to worry about immigration. The ones that care the most are the citizens who immigrated from another land. Always beating the rigteous drum about entering here legally BUT it does not change the problem that there are millions of undocumented people here and you dont know WHO they are. Do you feel safe at night knowing that? Complaining about frutisellers on the street..Why do people buy from them? Someone is eating that fruit and tacos. Proposition 20 was laughable. It was another feel good way for the citizens that DO vote to make themselves feel better. Remember there are many who do not vote. The EU is a good example of immigration gone awry. Do you think that Turkey will ever be a member of the EU? NEVER...No one wants millions of Turks having the ability to settle in white western europe. Anyways...This whole thing ****s and its my kids that will deal with going to school in fear of attacks because the big bogs in DC are too bothered trying to appease the few then protect the many.
I didn't say most Americans were against "immigration reform". I said most Americans oppose amnesty. These are not the same thing, though quite a few people would have you believe that they are.
Our so-called broken immigration laws are only "broken" because government refuses to enforce the laws. They refuse to enforce them because there are vested interests which benefit from having them ignored: employers who want cheap labor, ethnic and religious activists who want political power, and politicians who want votes from ethnic/racial groups. The only "reforms" that have been proposed are those which benefit these groups, and which hurt the American worker and the American taxpayer.
Let's be realistic. The average American is beginning to care about illegal immigration and immigration in general as they fear more for their jobs, see their taxes go up, and as prices are now rising faster than wages. We've already seen Prop 200 in Arizona, similar efforts in other states. You may think they're nothing, but they show a lot of popular anger which got translated into votes. And you can bet a few guys in Congress are wondering how they'll fare in the next midterm election is they support a "guest worker" program or amnesty. In fact, Sen. Kyl from Arizona is one of those pushing a "milder" amnesty plan with the President's help, which would require workers to leave after 6 years--no way to become a citizen. Think illegal aliens will go for that?
Also, again--the programs proposed as "immigration reform" do NOTHING to prevent terrorism or illegal immigration or anything else UNLESS THERE IS STRONG ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULES/LAWS ESTABLISHED FOR THE PROGRAM. AND IF THESE LAWS CAN BE ENFORCED, THERE IS NO REASON OUR CURRENT ONES CAN'T BE. There is no way any "guest worker" program can accommodate everyone who wants to come, which means we'll still have illegal immigration and will need enforcement more than ever. Furthermore, the BUSH program requires workers to leave after 6 years--who's going to enforce that rule? Are they going to stay and work illegally. We're back where we started, only with more illegal workers (and their families now) who entered legal then stayed.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: AliBA,
Anything that allows an undocumemted person to legally adjust is a form of forgiveness ie. amnesty. All the thousands of foreigners that are able to adjudt from undocumented status to legal status through marriage every single year are nothing but recipients of amnesty. Forgiveness of immigration violations because of marriage. Isnt that amnesty? What hurts the american worker and taxpayer? Having illegals in the country..so its all about money and not about security. Its supposed to be ALL about securing these borders and thats the bottom line. The American worker is not being shafted. The undocumented that work for pittance are the ones being shafted with no real way to defend themselves from being exploited. You say that the wages are too low...then tell the government to up minimum wage..5.50 an hour is whats legally allowed and americans are happy with THAT status quo.
Yes, and each one of those is weighed on its merits, and there must be a benefit to the American spouse. Not that I'm crazy about it--I'd really like to see an end to the practice.
As for the "undocumented" (just why are you afraid of the accurate and legal term, "illegal alien") not hurting the American worker, wrong, wrong, wrong. Wages in industries dominated now by illegal aliens have fallen in real terms (meat packing, construction for example). Hispanics, including illegal aliens, are getting disproportionately more of the jobs that are being created in this anemic "recovery" and a recent study (Pew?)shows that native-born Hispanics, such as my nephews, have actually seen their wages decrease the last two years because of competition from new (probably illegal) immigrants. Not to mention, of course, that illegal aliens pay little or nothing in taxes (see today's--June 6--front page NY Times article on how LPRs rent out their SSN to illegal aliens, then split the tax refund which is due because the illegals earn too little to have to pay taxes), certainly not enough to cover the cost of medical care in an emergency room, or even the education of one of their children for one year.
You'd also do well to study economics, Lost. The government can set a floor at $5.50 or whatever, but if illegal aliens will take less than that, and they do, then it doesn't matter where minimum wages are set. Even legal, illegal aliens couldn't ask for and get much higher wages because (1) they lack skills and education, and (2) there are too many of them. It also takes one hell of a lot more than $5.50 an hour to live out of poverty here. Those meatpacking jobs I mentioned paid $18 an hour 20 years ago (in 1980s $) and are less than half that now (in 2005 $) because of union busting and illegal immigration.
Nor does amnesty in and of itself stop illegal immigration or prevent terrorists from entering the country, or anything else. In fact, terrorists (1993 WTC bombing) were able to use the 1986 amnesty to get legal status and move more freely in planning their terrorist acts. The 9/11 terrorists committed fraud to get visas, overstayed them or otherwise violated them, making them illegal, and were able to use driver's licenses to move freely, open bank accounts, and plan. A cop in Florida even stopped one on traffic violations, but let him go because he had a driver's license. Given the number of illegal aliens we have now, there is simply no way to verify the identities of everyone who might apply.
But ultimately, Lost, it's about respect for law and order, which is core to American culture. Illegal aliens are disrespecting us and our country and our way of life.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: AliBA,
i respect your opinion and all but again, you are again misleading people when u say this bill doesnt do anything to enforce the law? did u guys even read the bill? i dont think so. clearly, one of the mean focus of this bill is enforcing the law, making border patrol more of a priority but the thing you guys dont understand is once u enforce the law and but barricades all across the border, (which is what u 2 wants and i understand that i dont have a problem with barricades to block people from coming here) u 2 fail to understand that again and again, u can not deport 11 million people it will demolish this country spirit because whether u like it or not, this country depends on these people that u hate so much.
So if you, under no circumstances, can not deport them what do u do? Just let them live underground? make their life as miserable as possible and hope they all leave on their own? we know this wont happen either. Lets cut to the chase, the goverment are run by people that are much more smarter then u are, this is why they are where they are, the only reason they wont be mass deportation is because they are aware of what will happen to this country if the republicanz pass a bill that would allow it to happen.
that guess worker bill that is being worked by neo conservative sen kyl is to me a "mass deportation bill" what this bill does is trick immigrants to believe that they should apply for it, then they get inserted into the system, then VOILA..u get their addresses, name and everything all u have to do is show up to their doors and deport all of them...this is why kyl should not even bother with his pathetic bill we all know what it is it's a trick how can u tell these people that u can only work for 3 years then u have to leave the country for ever and leave your kids behind? this wont go anywhere and again u could put barricade and unleash a million minute men and pass other real id act bill, u have to deal with the one already here the status quo is getting worse and worse
This message has been edited. Last edited by: jean2005,
Yes, I have seen the bill, or as much of it as is available on Kennedy's website. It's the same old stuff that was in the 1986 amnesty and that they've been talking about for years. That's the problem--it's all been talk. Once the 1986 amnesty passed, nothing was done. This also will "study" the border situation, but not do anything about it. IF THEY CAN REALLY ENFORCE THE BORDER AND DO INTERIOR ENFORCEMENT, THEN LET THEM PROVE IT BY DOING IT NOW. Otherwise, it's the same old BS that they've been slinging for years. There's already a system in place for employers to check SSN, but it's voluntary and employers don't want it to be mandatory because it would catch too many illegal workers. Let Congress start with this type of thing. Enforce what's there, provide money and manpower for what's there. Do that for a few years, and maybe, just maybe, even I would support an amnesty after that for whomever's remaining. What you will not understand, Jean, is that there's no need to physically deport everyone. All you have to do is make it tough to find or keep work, to drive, to use public services, and people will self-deport. See a recent article about some illegals from Brazil--they've been here 5 years, their son just graduated from HS, and they've decided to go home because it's too tough as an illegal here. And that's without serious enforcement.
Illegal aliens should have no expectations of ever being able to legalize. That some have U.S. born kids, well, that's a good reason not to have guest worker programs of any type, or to change the law regarding citizenship by birth.
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