Originally posted by SonofMichael: I dated the criminal I was involved with for one year before the actual crime (the "marriage"). I slowly began to realize it on that day. But as everyone knows, i am a trusting, kind and loving person. Only after she confirmed it after 2 years did I divorce her. I think its possible for a couple to meet, even for an instant, and be in love for a lifetime. And I think its possible to think you know someone for years and still be conned. It is difficult to know what is in someone's heart. And people will marry anyone and do anything to get a green card. They will marry a mental retard, a black, a jew, an ex-convict, a serial rapist, a Democrat, a child molestor, etc.... They don't care.
SOM, you have gobsmacked me, you are human after all and you do have a heart. now, if you just delete the last sentence you wrote, I think more people will be just as Gobsmacked as me.
Several of us are forming a group and are in a process to sue Department of Homeland Security. The Government never ever listens to one but will listen to several and especially when media is also involved and we have several stories of the victims.
Two questions:
1. How many of your marriages were arranged by the US government?
2. Have any of you ever heard of the term personal responsibility?
We all have choices to make and who you choose to marry is one of many. There are consequences for every choice YOU make therefore YOU ALONE are responsible for them.
While I sympathize with those of you who made horrible choices in your personal lives, Homeland Security (aka US Taxpayers) are not responsible for the outcome nor should we be sued for monetary damages.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Beverly,
Originally posted by HelpVictim: Hello All - If you have been a victim of marriage fraud to obtain immigration benefits, please drop me a line using private message with your information like email and name.
Several of us are forming a group and are in a process to sue Department of Homeland Security. The Government never ever listens to one but will listen to several and especially when media is also involved and we have several stories of the victims.
Helpvictim, Just because a marriage does not work out between a USC spouse and an immigrant spouse, does not mean it was fraud. Fraud is VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY difficult to prove. No coercion or misrepresentation from her nor you. At best, you will spend $5000 with the federal judge stating the case lacks jurisdiction.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by republicanwriter: I am curious how a person in the United States meets a person overseas and becomes a "victim" of marriage fraud?
It strikes me as extraordinarily odd that someone would enter into a marriage with a person who is a total and complete stranger and from a different culture to boot.
? How is this different that going on a wild weekend to Vegas and getting drunk and running into another drunk and getting hitched? (except for the booze part) You wake up with someone you don't know and of course its a disaster.
Why is everyone so shocked to find out they are not compatible with and have no common ground with a total stranger? There are not even any common cultural touchstones in these relationships. Different Religious denominations, different languages, different attitudes about everything.
There are no mutual friends or a way to check on a person who lives overseas to make sure they are a person of honor and respectability.
In a million years I will never understand a western woman marrying a man from the East?? Why would someone do that? For all you know these men have a wife/wives or children in their own country.
Cultural norms in many of these countries are such that men treat women as property or second class citizens. If someone has grown up thinking this all their lives, stepping off a plane in the US is not going to make a person have a different belief system.
When you bring these people into your homes and lives and they treat you in a way you did not anticipate (or with total disregard) its time to shake it off like the weekend in Vegas. You would not agonize over that for weeks or months or years you would simply END IT and move forward acknowledging you made a rash decision.
I do not know where you people are encountering these foreigners who are "scamming you" for Immigration Benefits, but I suggest where ever it is ...DON'T GO THERE ANYMORE.
A few things here RW, 1. The word "scam" is being used very broad here. For the most part, it is the indignation by a USC spouse who believes they were taken for when the marriage did not work out. Never mind that the fault lies with both who do not wish nor want the marriage to work out. Never mind that one or both are too prideful to change their ways to make the marriage work out. Never mind that one or both will blame the other person for things that was not their fault. I I think you might get the point. But the single, most significant problem in these marriages is the lack of communication and respect for the other partner. VAWA is not a perfect law, but it is intended to prevent abuse by a souse that has more controlling power.
2. The internet has made a much smaller place. When davdah and I were kids, internet was not an everyday term. Talking to friends was either calling on the phone, and not using long distance, or using your bike to go see them. Sending letters to pen pals or anyone else was consiedered normal. But now, with an instant communications via IM, e-mail, or text messaging, we can communicate with someone in our same city, same block, same country, or even outside the country and not even know about. And that is the problem with the internet.
3. Marriage is always a risk. The litmus test that I tend to use is if the exact same circumstances occurred with a "American woman" will you still be wanting an annulment and calling the marriage fraud. the co op answer is "An American woman will never do that." which will be said by some. But the real answer is a resounding NO!
4. Finally, international marriages bring a unique set of challenges in the marriage. Not only does the couple have to contend of tow people who were single, but also have to interact with the different cultures that sometimes bring conflict within the marriage. If there is a lack of communication between the two and if there is no degree of real compromise by both spouses, the marriage will not work, even if they are from the same ethnic backgound. You make a point that in some cultures men treat women as property. Here in t he US, there is some degree of that when men think women should only be at home cooking and making babies. Or here is another. The United States is a consumption society. We love to spend the greenbacks. We love it so much that we tend to spend money we don't have. Yet, even if a USC marries someone from another culture and treats her with respect and not property, there will still be that discourse about money and who should spend what. If neither party are willing to compromise, the marriage will not last, even if the person has all the money in the world. Money can never, ever buy happiness. The point is marriage takes a lot of work, more work than one realizes. And blaming the marriage on someone else or even blaming the marriage to someone else is not a healthy way to understand and cope with the dissappointment.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
I and at least 7 others (not from here) are considering a class action lawsuit against the government's policies that encourage marriage fraud and offer no protection to the USC spouse. We realize that we need a large pool of victims for support for this claim. What we done to attract attention to this effort is film a documentary of stories of individuals who have been victimized by marriage fraud. The objective of the film is to show the other side of these "abuse" cases. Two of the four stories are are of USC women who are victims of the system. With these stories we interweave interviews of family, friends, acquaintances, witnesses, lawyers and so on. There is also reenactments that add interest and work well. My inspiration for this film is Errol Morris's semi-documentary film "The Thin Blue Line". Two of the four stories are complete and edited. Around these stories are short interviews of a minute or less of others who have also been victimized. Some of the filming is in other languages such as Russian, Spanish and Vietnamese. We will have multiple language versions with subtitles where needed. The over plan is to host it over the internet for international viewing and to attract media attention here and abroad. The media is always looking for new stories beyond the usual. Don't worry that I will ask any of you for a filmed interview. I know that most want to stay in shadows with this and I understand and accept the varying reasons why.
OK, besides HelpVictim please send me your e-mail contact information and any thoughts or suggestions you might want to add. I will not pass this on to others without your prior permission. I will be glad to take your calls. I have unlimited long distance so if you want we can arrange it that way as well.
One more thing. Please ignore the distractors here. They have prejudices and agendas that of course offer no solutions to our problem.
Agendas, prejudices? You made the decision to marry a foreigner who defrauded you, why should American taxpayers be sued/financially penalized for your deliberate willful, and extremely poor personal choices as if our court system isn't clogged with enough frivolous, lawsuits?
As an American citizen. you should be accustomed to having the freedom of personal choices and taking responsibility for your choices and actions. If the government put a gun to your head and forced you to marry a foreign con artist then I could see your point otherwise, you are reaping what you have sown and no amount of sour grapes justifies you wanting to hold the American taxpayers responsible. You gambled and lost. You had to know there was a chance this person was in it for citizenship, they look for desperate, lonely people like you to prey upon for a living, and from reading this board apparently, it happens everyday.
Please help me understand why you won't sue the person who defrauded you? Could it be that person has no financial assets?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Beverly,
Originally posted by Beverly: Agendas, prejudices? You made the decision to marry a foreigner who defrauded you, why should American taxpayers be sued/financially penalized for your deliberate willful, and extremely poor personal choices as if our court system isn't clogged with enough frivolous, lawsuits?
As an American citizen. you should be accustomed to having the freedom of personal choices and taking responsibility for your choices and actions. If the government put a gun to your head and forced you to marry a foreign con artist then I could see your point otherwise, you are reaping what you have sown and no amount of sour grapes justifies you wanting to hold the American taxpayers responsible. You gambled and lost. You had to know there was a chance this person was in it for citizenship, they look for desperate, lonely people like you to prey upon for a living, and from reading this board apparently, it happens everyday.
Please help me understand why you won't sue the person who defrauded you? Could it be that person has no financial assets?
The issue is about how the USCIS offers no avenue to the USC to present their side of the story. As I have found out that with some USC when trying to figure out exactly who they married they find out their spouse had a criminal past and lied on their Federal biographical forms. When this evidence is presented to the USCIS they refuse to take it. Evedence that comes straight from the courts. Thus immigrant bigamists and drug dealers etc are given a fast tract to US Citizenship as abused spouses. Also the USC is not allowed to present higher court rulings that they are not abusers or have had their records expunged to the USCIS. This is much more than the simplistic argument that "you made a bad choice so live with it". We victims have a right to be heard and not have our names sullied in Federal files.
Originally posted by Beverly: Agendas, prejudices? You made the decision to marry a foreigner who defrauded you, why should American taxpayers be sued/financially penalized for your deliberate willful, and extremely poor personal choices as if our court system isn't clogged with enough frivolous, lawsuits?
As an American citizen. you should be accustomed to having the freedom of personal choices and taking responsibility for your choices and actions. If the government put a gun to your head and forced you to marry a foreign con artist then I could see your point otherwise, you are reaping what you have sown and no amount of sour grapes justifies you wanting to hold the American taxpayers responsible. You gambled and lost. You had to know there was a chance this person was in it for citizenship, they look for desperate, lonely people like you to prey upon for a living, and from reading this board apparently, it happens everyday.
Please help me understand why you won't sue the person who defrauded you? Could it be that person has no financial assets?
The issue is about how the USCIS offers no avenue to the USC to present their side of the story. As I have found out that with some USC when trying to figure out exactly who they married they find out their spouse had a criminal past and lied on their Federal biographical forms. When this evidence is presented to the USCIS they refuse to take it. Evedence that comes straight from the courts. Thus immigrant bigamists and drug dealers etc are given a fast tract to US Citizenship as abused spouses. Also the USC is not allowed to present higher court rulings that they are not abusers or have had their records expunged to the USCIS. This is much more than the simplistic argument that "you made a bad choice so live with it". We victims have a right to be heard and not have our names sullied in Federal files.
Max
I feel really bad for those of you who have gotten scre-wed over in this type of situation. But again (just looking at it from a legal perspective) legally, I doubt that you have a leg to stand on.
Did you try to run a background check on the person prior to marriage? While I realize hind sight is 20/20 if I were going to open up the doors of my entire life and invite a complete stranger into it (and a foreigner to boot) its just common sense that the first thing you should do is find/hire a very good PI.
Before I got married in addition to dating for 3 years (I am married to a born/bred American citizen), this was my criteria: (a) thorough background check; (b) copies of tax returns for last 5 years; (c)copies of all 3 current credit reports. That way I knew exactly who I was marrying and what I was getting into.
Again, I doubt that you can even get a LEGITIMATE attorney to file a petition on your behalf, but if you find one willing to take your case be sure to check him/her out thoroughly before retaining their services. There are plenty of attorneys who will drag you through the court system in the name of billable hours.
Before I got married in addition to dating for 3 years (I am married to a born/bred American citizen), this was my criteria: (a) thorough background check; (b) copies of tax returns for last 5 years; (c)copies of all 3 current credit reports. That way I knew exactly who I was marrying and what I was getting into.
Beverly, you somehow do not surprise me that you did this, but after dating your husband for 3 years, did you still not trust him, and out of curiosity, do you trust him now. Also did he do a background check on you, ask you for copies of tax returns, as well as checking into your credit? and I'm wondering do you still do checks on him?
I dont know about anyone else, but I get the feeling you married for money and not love, or that is how it comes across.
Beverley, actually in a lot of countries it is very hard to get any back ground check on a person.
In UK for example, there is the data protection act, and its not like over here where you can quite easily look up people on the internet.
Criminal files etc are not for public record like here, so for any American it would be very hard to obtain records on people.
However saying that, before you are allowed to enter the US on a visa, you have to get a background check from the police. You have to submit that before you get your visa. If a legal immigrant did do something criminally and didn't show up on police records, well there is obviously something wrong with their countries legal system.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U.
I would like to point something out though..a legal immigrant has to go through everything to enter the US, or before they obtain their GC.
Now a USC does not. So you could see this as..why doesn't a USC have the same treatment as a legal immigrant?
Example..I had to have a HIV test, STD tests, TB test (xray), and multi tests. Also had to have all my immunizations checked and updated, as well as have additional ones depending what my States requirements were.
I had criminal background check, medical, so on and son. What did my husband have...zilch. (well actually I insisted he had STD and HIV test too which was was not very happy to do, but he did in the end).
When you marry someone in your own country, you don't usually do background checks etc. I am sure that a lot of people who marry, hide something from their past, whether petty crime or financial problems. At least with a legal immigrant, because of the immigration checks have to be done. (Yes I know some apparently slip through going by a few stories on here).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U.
A lot of countries (well actually I only know of the US who does), only do tax returns. In UK for example, its only the self employed who do tax returns, or if you rent out property. Our employers and tax offices do it all for us, we don't submit anything we just get a piece of paper at end of year (like W2). And even maybe a nice tax refund
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U.
Fraud is [b]VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY difficult to prove. .
This is(as usual) incorrect. The "standard of proof" is the level of proof required in a legal action to discharge the burden of proof, ie convince the court that a given proposition is true. The degree of proof required depends on the circumstances of the proposition. The "preponderance of evidence" (which is the lowest level, generally thought to be greater than 50%, although numeric approximations are controversial) and "beyond a reasonable doubt" (which is the highest level, but defies numeric approximation).[citation needed] In addition to these, a third standard called "clear and convincing evidence", (which is the medium level of proof).
In both civil and administrative proceedings, the standard to prove fraud is the lowest - preponderance of the evidence. In removal proceedings, the burden is on the immigrant to show why he should not be removed and then shifts to the prosecution to show that he should. Some reasons to deport someone include felony convictions, bad moral character, EWI and marriage fraud (among many others).
Evidence that would qualify to prove that there was marriage fraud includes the following: 1) Divorce (for any reason) within 2 years of receiving a conditional green card 2) An annulment based on marriage fraud 3) Other final court judgments bases on marriage fraud 4) Affidavits of victims and witnesses that there was a marriage fraud 5) Admission that there was a marriage fraud. Sometimes this evidence can be defeated by showing that the marriage was valid by presenting evidence such as joint assets and co-mingling of funds, children born into the marriage, etc... or that the person's motive in leaving the marriage was the all-popular abuse.
A finding of marriage fraud, in theory, is a permanent bar against receiving future immigration benefits on subsequent marriages.
Impeach Obama ! ............................... SOM - THE VOICE OF REASON
Before I got married in addition to dating for 3 years (I am married to a born/bred American citizen), this was my criteria: (a) thorough background check; (b) copies of tax returns for last 5 years; (c)copies of all 3 current credit reports. That way I knew exactly who I was marrying and what I was getting into.
Beverly, you somehow do not surprise me that you did this, but after dating your husband for 3 years, did you still not trust him, and out of curiosity, do you trust him now. Also did he do a background check on you, ask you for copies of tax returns, as well as checking into your credit? and I'm wondering do you still do checks on him?
I dont know about anyone else, but I get the feeling you married for money and not love, or that is how it comes across.
Ha . .you're kidding right? I work everyday, have excellent credit and no criminal record, why prey tell would I blindly and willingly assume someone elses' burdens? Why would I blindly join my life to some loser like those on this board who did and are now ticked off for being screw-ed over?
As much as you'd like to paint me as a villan with motives, unlike far too many on this board (maybe even your husband who may have married a foreigner/stranger out of lust) WE LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE ADULTS WHOSE BRAINS ARE NOT BETWEEN OUR LEGS; LOVE/LUST DOES NOT PAY THE BILLS, YOU CAN'T EAT IT, LIVE IN IT, NOR IS IT A SUBSTITUTE FOR COMMON SENSE. REAL MARRIAGES BASED ON TRUTH AND REALITY OBVIOUSLY GO A LOT ****HR AND LAST A LOT LONGER THAN THOSE BASED ON LUST AND DELUSIONS OF GRANDIER
Add to del.icio.us
