http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1115driverslicenses1115.html


Driver's licenses for migrants? Not in Mexico
Chris Hawley
Republic Mexico City Bureau
Nov. 15, 2007 12:00 AM

MEXICO CITY - The question of whether to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants ignited a national debate in the United States. But in Mexico, the largest source of U.S. immigrants, there's no question: Here, you must be a legal resident to get a driver's license.

All of Mexico's 31 states, along with Mexico City, require foreigners to present a valid visa if they want a driver's license, according to a survey of states by The Arizona Republic.

"When it comes to foreigners, we're a little more strict here," said Alejandro Ruíz, director of education at the Mexican Automobile Association.

Immigrant drivers zoomed into the national spotlight after presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton said a move by the New York governor to give licenses to illegal immigrants "makes a lot of sense" during an Oct. 30 debate.

On Wednesday, Clinton backed off that plan.

Proponents said the plan would have made the roads safer by ensuring that drivers are trained and insured, but the ensuing public outcry forced Gov. Eliot Spitzer to abandon the effort Wednesday.

U.S. Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., planned to file a bill this week that would bar states from any future attempts to give licenses to illegal immigrants.

Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington allow drivers to get licenses without proving they are legal residents, according to the National Immigration Law Center. Most other states, including Arizona, require applicants to prove they are citizens or legal residents.

Mexicans make up the bulk of illegal immigrants in the United States, accounting for an estimated 6 million of the 11.5 million undocumented residents as of March 2005, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.

Mexico's Foreign Relations Secretariat declined to comment on the controversy this week, but the Mexican government has fought U.S. restrictions on licenses in the past.

In 2004, the former Mexican consul in New York, Arturo Sarukhan, called such rules "a policy without a purpose" during a hearing in the New York State Assembly.

Sarukhan is now the Mexican ambassador in Washington.

Yet, licensing offices in all of Mexico's 31 states, along with the Federal District, where Mexico City is located, said they require applicants to prove their citizenship, preferably by showing a federal voter-registration card issued by the Federal Elections Institute.

Of those, 28 states and the Federal District said they would issue licenses to foreigners only if they present valid FM-2 or FM-3 residency visas.

The central Mexican states of Morelos, Puebla and Guerrero are more lenient. Foreigners there can get a driver's license with a valid tourist visa, or FMT.

Tourist visas are issued by federal immigration agents at airports and border crossing points.

Foreign tourists who are in Mexico temporarily can also drive using their foreign licenses, states said. Most U.S. states, including Arizona, have a similar exemption for temporary visitors.

Mexican officials said the application rules are strictly enforced, especially in southern states that have a problem with illegal immigrants from Central America.

"Last week a man came here (with a tourist visa) and said he was working as a deliveryman," said Denia Gurgua, manager of the driver's license office in Tuxtla Gutiérrez, the capital of the southern state of Chiapas.

She said she denied him a license because he did not have a visa to work in Mexico.

"Our constitution has certain restrictions for foreigners," she said.

U.S. proponents of tougher restrictions worry that having a driver's license helps legitimize illegal immigrants, making it harder to detect and remove them.

"The fact that all 31 states in Mexico would have such a common-sense position . . . shows to me a certain hypocrisy on the part of the Mexican government, because they are constantly criticizing those of us in Congress who want immigration laws to be tougher up here," said King of New York.

But immigrant advocates says the two countries don't compare. U.S. states are trying to protect other motorists from millions of illegal immigrants who are already driving, said Tyler Moran, an expert on driver's licenses at the National Immigration Law Center.

Mexico's pool of foreign residents is much smaller, about 492,000 people in a country of 105 million, according to the 2000 census.

"It may be a bit like comparing apples and oranges," Moran said. "The (U.S. states) are dealing in reality, and it's better public policy to have people actually have licenses, have identification, have insurance than not."

So..... basically the policy is good for Mexico, but not the US......sad !

I totally agree,some of the U.S. laws are pathetic and least to say,pure stupid.

No one in the United States that is here illegally should ever receive a U.S. drivers license,never.Unless U are here legally,aka student visa,work visa,permanent resident...

But if you are here illegally,You should NEVER EVER get a drivers license.

Thats why I still do not understand how some states don't min giving out licenses to people who are not in this country legally,and are illegally and broke the federal law.

Many dummies out there also misunderstand things and say "whats the big deal,if an illegal gets a drivers license"

Let me educate you high school drop-outs about the law and how things work in the United States.

A U.S. state issued drivers license in the United States is ALSO your legal I.D. card for traveling by plane and basic identification for government buildings etc.

Now if an Illegall person,is allowed to have a drivers license which he or she can use as I.D. to enter an airplane,and everyhting else...and it turns out something bad happens or what not.What happens then???

The whole issue with drivers license is,in the United States a drivers license is also an official I.D. thats the whole issue and thats why I am against giving people who do not belong here and broke the law in this country demand to have a drivers license,so they can go to work and work illegally lol.

Uusually this works if u live in a dumb country that has dumb laws. Any other nations thinks "these idiots in the U.S. just went through 9/11 and what not" and still argue,if people who do not belong in there country and broke the law to be in their country illegally,weather or not to give a drivers license aka legal I.D. card.

Its making me sick...maybe we the US should take examples from other countries like mexico and other european countries.

But lets not forget,its not all states in the US do that.

I know In OHIO U have to be legally here and proof it,in order to even be considered to have a drivers license...but alot of states do not care.Shame on them!!!

the point u don't get isthere are 12 millions persons whatever u like it or not it is a fact not only that but 1 out of 4 workers in the us is illegal so you need them to work, mr.HBKHBK called them dummies i personally don't think american are like that, they had the strongest economy by being smart and facilitate the issuence of driver licenses to illegals so they can work, to summaries if u prevent them from work you will feel it, think about it everything will be higher prices, not to mention some items will not exist like fresh veggies all the time and so forth

So far California still adheres to insuring a person is legit before handing out a D.L. As HBK said it is the basic universally recognized form of I.D. We need to make sure it still carries some level of security and authenticity.

I think you have some facts wrong dogruby. Not one in 4 workers are illegal. Its much lower, at least for now it is. Regardless, its still too high. What did this country do before the invasion. Who picked the lettuce? Someone did.

The economic impact from illegal labor reaches far beyond the farmers fields. If you live in a major city with a high percentage of illegals what do you pay for basic medical services? Its a lot higher than in areas where there are not so many illegals. Why is that? Its because they don't believe in paying their bills. If you ever visit Los Angeles or San Diego ask someone who works in a hospital about that. Why should I have to pay over $2000.00 for a few stitches? The answer. Because the other 6 people who were in there didn't pay.

It artificially lowers the wages for a job when there are too many people competing for the same job. You might think its good to have your grass by an illegal. Its cheaper, why not. But what if your job is next? Do you want to compete against someone who will do your job for 1/2 of what you get paid?

What if you get into an accident with one of these people? Do you think they will do the right thing? Guess what? They don't. They run and hide. Tell you to go eff yourself. leave you stuck paying for their damage. More negative economic impact we don't need.

This country needs immigrants but we don't need 10 million uneducated irresponsible lettuce pickers. That quota was filled long ago.

quote:

This country needs immigrants but we don't need 10 million uneducated irresponsible lettuce pickers. That quota was filled long ago.

I see S12 is rubbing off on you. This isn't the former, helpful Davdah I knew a few months back. I'd find another role model if I were you. All 10 million aren't lettuce pickers, but they are doing the jobs that you probably look down on and thumb your nose at.

No I don't thumb my nose at any job. Only at cheats or when our own people are being subverted. The complaint I have is we have too many here doing jobs that Americans do want to do. The construction industry for one has seen its wages depressed because of this and the quality of work has suffered as well. We have a lot of ready, willing, able, and 'properly trained' people to do those jobs. We really don't need to import more of those. We could probably use some more doctors, scientists, engineers, people like that.

davdah, u r rt. but i am talking about a problem that we can convert to a solution, u can take a lot of tax money from them-illegal- also not all of them are lettuce pickers as proudusc said, most of them work in construction, and as far as i know if very few of them hit and run-i mean very few- they run cause guess what ........they have no status give it to them they will help u pay ur bills of the hospital, and u can get as many stitches as u want even for a little prices, don't forget that hospital are expensive cause of the few americans like to spend their life studing and works as doctors so we got shortage of nurses and doctors the price goes up and the cycle goes on, as much as i agree that breaking the law is wrong but u have to be realstic and use the pain coming from illegals to produce happiness getting it from them beig legal and use their tax money cause they work hard.

Its true they are not all lettuce pickers. Just using the term to make a point. I really doubt by giving them status it would make any difference. This may upset a few but I will go so far as to say to a certain extent many have a criminal mentality to begin with. They came EWI and stayed. They know it and keep doing it. An argument can be made about making a better life and so forth. However, while making that better life there is a responsibility that goes with it. That responsibility is being shirked and makes most people made about this issue. I would think that ewi along with other issues could be forgiven if an effort were made to truly assimilate. To respect our laws and to do the right thing.

For example. I got hit a couple months ago. Did they care? No. Their attitude was that since I'm driving a benz that it makes them immune from taking care of what they caused. In Texas I have some rentals. Every time without fail when my manager allowed some illegals to stay it ended in disaster. They showed no respect for the property and tore the places up. Defaulted on the rent and then tried to play the race card when being evicted. My manager is hispanic and was shocked when they tried that. They said he was white washed and not of the la raza anymore. Although I told him not to do it he thought he was being helpful to his kinsmen. They bent him over just like they would anyone else.

There is a practice in Mexico called parachuting. The process where a tenant can legally live in your place for free. What it amounts to is if the tenant can show they have no where to go and you as the owner have another residence they can stay rent free. They come here and try the same thing.

Hospitals are expensive anywhere. But 2000.00 for 7 stitches in my wifes hand? Thats obscene.

Comment to davdah, you admitted you were in a hurry to get to the airport. I think you said one of them spoke english? Maybe not. When did you become a mind reader to think they didn't care about your vehicle? Come on, davdah!

BTW, how did your flying lessons go that day? If you buy a helicopter you could use it to cross over the city and keep yourself safe.

Many illegals speaka English. In this case the daughter. They spoke it well enough to tell me to eff off, they didn't care if they were responsible. Very colorful vocabulary for a 12 year old girl. Didn't need to read their mind to understand that.

Helicopters are too slow and they rattle too much. Wouldn't buy one. Besides, I already have one plane. The lesson went well. Didn't hit anyone and came back in one piece.

I think that if every other country other than the U.S requires proof of legal residency to get a license than the U.S. should too. right?

Comment to davdah, you didn't say anything about colorful language! You said you guys exchanged insurance information. davdah, you must be thinking about another accident you had.

BTW, I'm glad you haven't crashed into any SUVs!

Yes I know there are many (millions) of illegals here, but just because its so many millions does not make it right,jack.

Bottom line,if u are here illegally in this country,u shall not haveany rights to demand or expect anything from a country,that U do not belong to,nor respected their laws.PERIOD!!!

There was more to it after the initial locking of ***pers. A few weeks lapsed and the insurance company called asking if I knew how to get in contact with these people. They couldn't reach them. I called them myself and after a couple tries they answered. The daughter is who I ended up talking to. The car belonged to the dad who was not married to the mom and neither had insurance. Once I mentioned liability is when things went south real quick. I thought it was especially strange that they would let a child do the talking for them. Even if the mom could not speak English the dad should have had the cajones to face me.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
There was more to it after the initial locking of ***pers. A few weeks lapsed and the insurance company called asking if I knew how to get in contact with these people. They couldn't reach them. I called them myself and after a couple tries they answered. The daughter is who I ended up talking to. The car belonged to the dad who was not married to the mom and neither had insurance. Once I mentioned liability is when things went south real quick. I thought it was especially strange that they would let a child do the talking for them. Even if the mom could not speak English the dad should have had the cajones to face me.

Actually, it is quite common for the son or daughter to speak on behalf of the parent when the parents primary language is not English. I have experienced this when I was growing up, working, and among friends. It is common whether one is a USC (Puerto Rico), legal, or illegal. The child is the one practicing English on a daily basis and in a learning environment. Either one or both parents are working and do not have time, not to mention the expense, to attend ESL classes. Thus, the child is not only the hope for the family, the child is the linchpin of our society to theirs. And historically, this has been the case. The child is the one who has a better change of learning a second language than an adult. California has 25% of its drivers as uninsured. This has been the problem. One reason is for county mutual and credit scoring used by insurance companies, instead of statistical data based on age, gender, location, and other factors.

As for the incident, unfortunately, you must let it go. The insurance company will not be able to get any money from them, nor would you. The confronting of the father will make a bad situation worse which will put you in a legal hardship. More than likely, they are just as embarrassed about the incident, just as you are.

Sure I can recoup it. I know their address and her name. At this point they owe me about 4k. How would I do it? I can take them to small claims to get the initial judgment. After a few weeks of refusal to pay I can get an abstract and writ of execution filed. At some point she will pay. Even if she doesn't have a job now eventually she probably will and the garnishment will kick in.

Comment to davdah: 4K? davdah, I thought you said it was only minor damage when you posted it in the other thread? Oops, I forgot. Body repair can be expensive.

Especially on a Benz. I think that was part of the reason for their attitude, apparent class envy.