My US citizen wife and I have been married for almost three years, and lived together as married for over two. We have been separated (physically but not legally) for a few months now, but we are on good terms and do not intend to divorce anytime soon. I'm due to submit an I-751 shortly, to remove the conditions on my green card by marriage, and my wife is helping me.
My intention was to apply normally, with no mention of our separation, but I'd like to know if any of you more experienced folks on this messageboard have any advice on that subject.
Also, I've read in several places online that those affidavits, from friends or acquaintances swearing that the marriage is legitimate, are not necessarily required as I-751 evidence. I'd certainly like for that to be the case, since our friends are not the "friend in need" type, and would have plenty of excuses for not becoming involved in a federal government application. So I'm wondering if any of you good people would be able to confirm or refute the idea that the affidavits are optional.
Thanks very much for your help, and happy Fourth of July.
Hi there, Affidavits are indeed optional. While I'm sure they can be useful to support one's case (particularly when there are not too many other supportive documents otherwise) thousands (myself included) remove the conditional status each year without engaging friends and other family members. Good luck!
Affidavits are optional. I did not include them in my I-751 package.
However, do you plan not to disclose that you guys are separated? Do you still have joint accounts? Other mail sent to the same address? If one of you have moved, he/she has to file for change of address. Not doing so is punishable by law. On the other hand, if it has been done, there is evidence that you are separated... It is not so simple even if your wife supports you... Think twice or consult a lawyer.
Steve for evidence read for yourself on the 751 instructions for evidence of relationship.
#5 reads as follows:
5. Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by at least two people who have known both of you since your conditional residence was granted and have personal knowledge of your marriage and relationship. (Such persons may be required to testify before an immigration officer as to the information contained in the affidavit.) The original affidavit must be submitted and also contain the following information regarding the person making the affidavit: his or her full name and address; date and place of birth; relationship to you or your spouse, if any; and full information and complete details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge. Affidavits must be supported by other types of evidence listed above
Now true many people have been approved without affidavits being submitted. As you can see, they are part of the instructions. It would be one more thing that could hold up an approval or generate a RFE. Your choice.
You are playing a dangerous game with the seperation and joint filing. Would suggest that the two of you work this out to reconcile and stick around to apply for citizenship based on 3yrs marriage to usc.
Originally posted by Steve Malkin: My US citizen wife and I have been married for almost three years, and lived together as married for over two. We have been separated (physically but not legally) for a few months now, but we are on good terms and do not intend to divorce anytime soon. I'm due to submit an I-751 shortly, to remove the conditions on my green card by marriage, and my wife is helping me.
My intention was to apply normally, with no mention of our separation, but I'd like to know if any of you more experienced folks on this messageboard have any advice on that subject.
Also, I've read in several places online that those affidavits, from friends or acquaintances swearing that the marriage is legitimate, are not necessarily required as I-751 evidence. I'd certainly like for that to be the case, since our friends are not the "friend in need" type, and would have plenty of excuses for not becoming involved in a federal government application. So I'm wondering if any of you good people would be able to confirm or refute the idea that the affidavits are optional.
Thanks very much for your help, and happy Fourth of July.
The real problem I see is the two of you live separately. If neither of you do not mention you are living separately, it will not go well for either your wife or you. You may be approved for perm green card, but it will hinder you either in renewal or application for US citizenship. If there is a non marital reasons for separation and that separation is only temporary, then I would submit evidence for that claim. If the two of you are going through counseling, I would recommend an affidavit from the marriage counselor. Thus, i would recommend as many affavidts as possible to help support your petition. And I do believe not having affaviits will only hurt both of you.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Thanks to all the posters above for your advice and encouragement, and I'll take it to heart.
My wife and I do still have the joint bank account, we filed a joint income tax return earlier this year, and we have the joint bills.
The marriage was completely legitimate, we lived together as married for over two years, and there has been no legal separation. The only obvious change is that I'm now in a nearby motel.
I'm afraid I've been reluctant to register a formal change of address. I can be reached easily through the proper address that's on file, I've changed motels already and could move again tomorrow, plus a motel is the sort of place where a person "stays" more than "resides".
Yes, the I-751 instructions about including the affidavits are certainly clear enough, but I had read so many reports of successful cases that had omitted the affidavits (including now a couple in answer to my original post here, and thank you for those). If I've learned anything from my dealings with the USCIS, it is that every agent has his or her own interpretation of the fixed rules, so it matters less what the rules say and more how they're applied. I'll get an affidavit if I possibly can, but it'll be like getting blood from a stone.
I would never attempt this without a lawyer if a lawyer was an option for me, and I have used a lawyer in past, but unless some immigration attorney is willing to work for a few hundred dollars instead of a few thousand, I'm on my own this time.
I would prefer to be upfront about this physical separation in my application, but my concern is that the first mention of it will earn me an automatic rejection, if for no other reason than that this situation doesn't fit into any standard CIS "box".
Thank you all again, and hope you're having a good Fourth of July.
Originally posted by Steve Malkin: Thanks to all the posters above for your advice and encouragement, and I'll take it to heart.
My wife and I do still have the joint bank account, we filed a joint income tax return earlier this year, and we have the joint bills.
The marriage was completely legitimate, we lived together as married for over two years, and there has been no legal separation. The only obvious change is that I'm now in a nearby motel.
I'm afraid I've been reluctant to register a formal change of address. I can be reached easily through the proper address that's on file, I've changed motels already and could move again tomorrow, plus a motel is the sort of place where a person "stays" more than "resides".
Yes, the I-751 instructions about including the affidavits are certainly clear enough, but I had read so many reports of successful cases that had omitted the affidavits (including now a couple in answer to my original post here, and thank you for those). If I've learned anything from my dealings with the USCIS, it is that every agent has his or her own interpretation of the fixed rules, so it matters less what the rules say and more how they're applied. I'll get an affidavit if I possibly can, but it'll be like getting blood from a stone.
I would never attempt this without a lawyer if a lawyer was an option for me, and I have used a lawyer in past, but unless some immigration attorney is willing to work for a few hundred dollars instead of a few thousand, I'm on my own this time.
I would prefer to be upfront about this physical separation in my application, but my concern is that the first mention of it will earn me an automatic rejection, if for no other reason than that this situation doesn't fit into any standard CIS "box".
Thank you all again, and hope you're having a good Fourth of July.
What service center are you in? It will make a difference if you and seperated wife choose to play out this game. A long wait will be harder to pull the wool over uscis eyes.
OP says he is married yet not living in the same residence with his wife. First reasonable question anyone would ask is: why do you live in a different place while married?
Have all the good s.ex you can, in all the ways you can, for as long as ever you can !
-- Sabuntium The Great
Posts: 928 | Location: Originally from: Galaxy of Centaurus A (also known as NGC 5128) | Registered: 06-26-2008
Hi, 4now. That is very helpful information, and thanks for all your time and consideration.
I'm really at a loss, since my case is neither fish nor foul, so to speak. My wife and I are not getting divorced, so I can't petition alone on the grounds of a marriage that has been dissolved but was in good faith. And we don't intend to start divorce proceedings or even separate legally anytime soon. So I am legally as married as I ever was, and expect I will be for some time to come.
As for the service center, I believe we'd be covered by the one in Texas.
And on the question of why my wife and I are married but not now living together, well, we've been married for some time, we still love each other, we're still on good terms, we're still in touch, and we still even see each other occasionally, but we had one too many fights a while ago and decided a break was in order. So here I am in a very non-standard situation with an I-751 to file.
Basically what you are saying is that you have no evidence of current marriage (from CIS point of view, as required per instructions of application you fill out: that is you must be living together, sharing household responsibilities and etc.), considering the fact that your separation is not due to employment or anything beyond your immediate control, but rather it's by your choice and due to "one to many fights". And you are not divorsed, nor planning to divorse,to get a waiver. So, now you are asking how can you get conditions removed, without you meeting the very conditions you must meet to have it removed?
Very interesting question. Try to square a circle first, if you succeed you may also find an answer to your own question.
Have all the good s.ex you can, in all the ways you can, for as long as ever you can !
-- Sabuntium The Great
Posts: 928 | Location: Originally from: Galaxy of Centaurus A (also known as NGC 5128) | Registered: 06-26-2008
As I posted earlier, I do have the CIS-required evidence of a legitimate marriage of over two years -- i.e., joint taxes, joint bank account, joint bills, photos. The only evidence that is proving problematic are those affidavits, as discussed before.
If my wife and I were getting divorced, ironically, this would be much more clear-cut. I could show that we had lived together in a genuine, good-faith marriage for over two years, and also show that the marriage was now being dissolved. But, of course, my wife and I are not getting divorced or legally separated.
I hate to be dishonest with the CIS on any point, so this is a real dilemma for me. I can't apply as divorced or legally separated, but I don't like to pretend that nothing at all has changed when that isn't completely true.
I am not asking how to remove my green card condition without meeting the requirements; what I was asking all those posts ago was whether or not I should acknowledge to the CIS that my wife and I are not physically together now, given that we are not divorcing, either, meaning I am unable to invoke the CIS provisions for divorcees.
I'm a little confused as to the nature of your separation. I don't want to be too nosy, but you can bet dollars to donuts that USCIS won't be as squeamish as I am about delving into your personal life.
If there's no plan for legal separation/divorce, why are you living apart?
-------------------- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 775 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 05-16-2008
I am familiar with the invasiveness of the CIS and the law generally, first hand. I've had everything but the gloved probe, in two countries. My wife and I have the sort of problems that nearly all married couples have -- disagreements over money, nagging, etc. -- and things got strained enough that it became difficult for us to get along under the same roof. We're a great couple when we don't see each other every day. But legally separating or divorcing is much further than either of us want to go at this point.
Unfortunately it does put you in a bit of a position. Even if you were in the process of a divorce, it'd be awkward as the USCIS won't grant a waiver for you to file on your own until the divorce is final.
************************************** The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch
Posts: 1223 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 07-29-2007
In light of the fact that you are not seperated in a way that the outcome is divorce, It seems that joint filing if she is willing may be ok 4u. I would suggest both of you seeing a marriage counselor to sort out your problems and hopefully allow you both to reconcile and to live together with each others faults and disagreements. It sounds like it has been too long apart in this seperation. Too much time apart will start the build for single and seperate life... not a married life.
At least this way you can prove that you still have a married relationship and that you have documentation from on going marriage counsseling visits.
Also you will need a good lawyer if you are called in for an interview and you dont live together anymore without a valid acceptable reason for uscis.
I dont understand why you cannot get affadavits from her parents or relatives that you had a valid marriage up until the point of seperation.
No, no-one who knows us thinks our marriage is a sham. The reason the affidvaits are harder to come by in our case is that my wife's mother is no longer with us, and her father has been estranged for decades. My parents are thousands of miles away. So we're left with two local relatives of hers who are not the helping kind, and co-workers whose relationships with us are pretty minimal.
I know better to attempt any dealing with the law without a lawyer, but I just don't have the money for it, otherwise I wouldn't be botherng you folks for advice.
I'll do the best I can, and I thank the posters for their time, information, advice, and encouragement.
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