Looking for input on the following issue. If your married to an immigrant and you have a prenupt does the I-864 render it void? If you have been married to an immigrant and later divorced with a prenupt in place what was the outcome? Was the prenupt upheld? Did the fact of the spouse being an immigrant have any relevance to the status or enforceability of the prenupt?
Ive done some reading on it and the only sticking point I could find was the possible issue of coercion. It could be argued the immigrant was under duress to sign otherwise they would lose their sponsor. If it were me that is what I would argue. I intend on seeing an attorney about this but some real world experiences would be nice to hear.
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Posts: 5001 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
Absolutely. I wonder why no one has commented yet. Is it so wrong to want to make sure you don't get financially screwed. I already lost 7 figures to one gold digging witch. I want a guarantee It doesn't happen again. I don't mind sharing the wealth if she's with me. But if she bails, she is not taking anything of mine with her.
Vote Republican and this country will still be worth sneaking into.
Posts: 5001 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
it is smart to do a prenup no matter what.. but in the clause what you can do is let her get a lawyer and you get a lawyer and let her swear that she was not forced to sign it or was under duress doing so.. and then let her and her lawyer sign and then you and your lawyer
Good idea, to have lawyers present. The only problem is I would have to pay for her attorney since she can't work anymore. Conflict of interest, maybe.
I have yet to bring it up to her what I intend on doing. I think this will be a deal breaker so to speak. If its real she'l understand that I need to insure that what I have set aside for my existing kids stays that way. If not, then nothing lost aside from the things Ive given her thus far.
If any women reads this, let me know what your honest opinion is. Have you been in this situation. Hell, for that matter, if any guy has been asked to sign a prenupt.
Vote Republican and this country will still be worth sneaking into.
Posts: 5001 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
Originally posted by davdah: Good idea, to have lawyers present. The only problem is I would have to pay for her attorney since she can't work anymore. Conflict of interest, maybe.
I have yet to bring it up to her what I intend on doing. I think this will be a deal breaker so to speak. If its real she'l understand that I need to insure that what I have set aside for my existing kids stays that way. If not, then nothing lost aside from the things Ive given her thus far.
If any women reads this, let me know what your honest opinion is. Have you been in this situation. Hell, for that matter, if any guy has been asked to sign a prenupt.
The second attorney has a conflict of interest if you pay the attorney. Of course, she can get free legal aid help if her income is within certain limits, but I still disagree with the prenupt as a whole.
As for the prenumpt, I am curious. Are there any provisions if you commit felony criminal acts or adultery for instance, if any debt of your prior to marriage is still completely yours, if you will not purposely hide all marital assets into LLC or other invisible trust schemes, or if you consider fair consideration if the marriage is dissolved after before three years or before 5 or 10 years? Depending on how complex or how simple the prenupt is will depend on the validity of the prenupt if the marriage is dissolved. I don't think your attorney will tell you all the risks involved in prenupts.
Basically what I am asking is the prenupt for protection of alimony or child support, or is it there for some other purpose?
But there is another possibility called revokable trust, or a grantor trust. You only need your attorney and you can change the trust basically on a whim by
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hudson,
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
If you hide any assets,the prenup is void. It is a good idea to transer your assets into a trust if you have kids; that takes it completely out of her hands no matter what since you would no longer "own" them. Do everything by the book. You can not get out of child support no matter what but you can probably get out of alimony and make her reimburse you for anything she gets. Also be diligent during the marriage. Make sure she contributes $$$$, make sure there is plenty of s e x, keep pictures of her in explicit situations, keep a lock box with all her documents, said pictures, etc... in case you need them. Divorce is too messy. There are other, "ways" to be rid of her besides a divorce that wil be less expensive and could be quite proitable if you do it correctly. Think about it.
............................... SonofMichael ILW Community Disorganizer
Originally posted by SonofMichael: If you hide any assets,the prenup is void. It is a good idea to transer your assets into a trust if you have kids; that takes it completely out of her hands no matter what since you would no longer "own" them. Do everything by the book. You can not get out of child support no matter what but you can probably get out of alimony and make her reimburse you for anything she gets. Also be diligent during the marriage. Make sure she contri butes $$$$, make sure there is plenty of s e x, keep pictures of her in explicit situations, keep a lock box with all her documents, said pictures, etc... in case you need them. Divorce is too messy. There are other, "ways" to be rid of her besides a divorce that wil be less expensive and could be quite proitable if you do it correctly. Think about it.
This only happens with irrevokable trusts and are subject to the gift tax rules. It will also not hide them from the estate tax either unless it meets certain conditions.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
make it effective when you die; better than letting the b**** getting it; I would blow up any assets and destroy them rather than let a woman get them. Like I said,there are other options to a divorce where you can make out a good sum o money
............................... SonofMichael ILW Community Disorganizer
Originally posted by SonofMichael: make it effective when you die; better than letting the b**** getting it; I would blow up any assets and destroy them rather than let a woman get them. Like I said,there are other options to a divorce where you can make out a good sum o money
Revokable trusts can be challenged if the trust did not meet the equitable due consideration at that time. Plus, destruction of private property to deny any benefit of one who has the legal right acquire such property under the law is also a crime and the estate would have to bear the responsibility, ie the male inheritors would lose a portion of their share.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
The primary purpose is to protect the existing properties and business. The properties are all paid off and the business has been around for several years. From what Ive read as long as I don't let her put any money into the accounts that pay real estate taxes or building improvements or do anything that could be construed as adding value to the buildings they are safe. Even without the prenupt.
Since they are income producing I know the money they make is considered community property. I can live with that since it only applies as long as we are married.
The business can be a problem. If she participates in it then the show is over. I would have to keep her in a hands off position concerning that with or without a prenupt. Shouldnt be too dificult since she doesn't really understand what it does or how it works. Doesn't seem to have an interest in it at this point. But I know that could change once she is made aware of the law. If it ever gets to that.
I am well aware a prenupt has no bearing on child support. I wouldnt want to hurt the kids anyway. To this day I am sending money to a son from the second marriage for his school even though my obligation stopped a while back.
Alimony is another issue which is why my permanent residence will be Texas. I like their take on it. A women can only get up to 2500 a month and only if the marriage has been at least 10 years. Even then it will be for a few years at most. They seem to think a women can get a job. What a concept! Unlike California which thinks a women is completely helpless.
They also have an intersting view on community property. They use whats called equitable distribution. From what I read they try to be fair. They won't give someone 1/2 if they only put in 1/10. It seems if you can show a paper trail and the financial records are not too muddied you have good chance of not having to give away half.
The problem with paying for the attorneys has yet to be figured out. Not for me, but for her. She doesn't have much aside from some clothes. Everything else, Ive given her. She doesn't work anymore, actually can't, due to the immigration problem.
How would explicit pictures help?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: davdah,
Vote Republican and this country will still be worth sneaking into.
Posts: 5001 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
[/QUOTE] destruction of private property to deny any benefit of one who has the legal right acquire such property under the law is also a crime and the estate would have to bear the responsibility, ie the male inheritors would lose a portion of their share.[/QUOTE]
Not if you blow it up with her inside !!!
............................... SonofMichael ILW Community Disorganizer
Originally posted by davdah: The primary purpose is to protect the existing properties and business. The properties are all paid off and the business has been around for several years. From what Ive read as long as I don't let her put any money into the accounts that pay real estate taxes or building improvements or do anything that could be construed as adding value to the buildings they are safe. Even without the prenupt.
Since they are income producing I know the money they make is considered community property. I can live with that since it only applies as long as we are married.
The business can be a problem. If she participates in it then the show is over. I would have to keep her in a hands off position concerning that with or without a prenupt. Shouldnt be too dificult since she doesn't really understand what it does or how it works. Doesn't seem to have an interest in it at this point. But I know that could change once she is made aware of the law. If it ever gets to that.
I am well aware a prenupt has no bearing on child support. I wouldnt want to hurt the kids anyway. To this day I am sending money to a son from the second marriage for his school even though my obligation stopped a while back.
Alimony is another issue which is why my permanent residence will be Texas. I like their take on it. A women can only get up to 2500 a month and only if the marriage has been at least 10 years. Even then it will be for a few years at most. They seem to think a women can get a job. What a concept! Unlike California which thinks a women is completely helpless.
They also have an intersting view on community property. They use whats called equitable distribution. From what I read they try to be fair. They won't give someone 1/2 if they only put in 1/10. It seems if you can show a paper trail and the financial records are not too muddied you have good chance of not having to give away half.
The problem with paying for the attorneys has yet to be figured out. Not for me, but for her. She doesn't have much aside from some clothes. Everything else, Ive given her. She doesn't work anymore, actually can't, due to the immigration problem.
How would explicit pictures help?
1. I think it will go further than what you think. Even if your company employs her, it would counted as contributed to the marital community property. So my next question is have you thought about whehter she will work or not once she is legalized? I am not talking about whether she should work or not, but if she wants to?
2. Like I said, she can obtain free legal help because her assets are low with no income. Your problem is she will now be made aware of the law on the prenuptial. I think you are going to need to consider length of marriage with some equitable distribution. You can make reasonable conditions such as adultery or felony criminal activity as barring her from receiving any distribution. From a legal standpoint, they may construe the prenuptial as getting around the community property laws, especially if she will not work after you are married.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
you could arrange it so there is an electrical fire while she is sound asleep; give her a few drinks so she will be totally knocked out;makse sure the smoke detector batteries are old. do not make single vacation plans before you do it.
............................... SonofMichael ILW Community Disorganizer
I realize that as a general rule any income during the course of marriage is considered community property. Which brings up another issue. Since the income from the property rentals would probably be considered community property. The paying of the property taxes from that money may cause the rentals to fall into community as well. There isn't a way for the taxes etc. to be paid not using community funds that I can think of.
It would probably be a bad idea to have her work for the company since it would make it difficult to make the claim she acted as an employee only. There by making it difficult to determine what contribution she made. She probably will work if for nothing else out of boredom.
At the moment the money she has is what I have given her. She has access to around 5 or 6 k that I put into an account for her. It was intended for shopping and some other items. Since I gave it to her I suppose it could be used to pay for legal advise since technically its hers now. I would think that would get around the possible conflict of interest issue.
The infidelity issue will need to be put in. In Texas unlike California it is looked at even without a prenupt. I guess some states subscribe to moral virtues still. Amazing.
I saw the page you referenced. Most of the sites I visited more or less said the same. Generally prenupts are done for the very reason of getting around community property. Of course in a way where it still seems fair. What ever that is supposed to be.
Sonof, She doesn't drink so that plan won't work either.
Vote Republican and this country will still be worth sneaking into.
Posts: 5001 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
Originally posted by davdah: I realize that as a general rule any income during the course of marriage is considered community property. Which brings up another issue. Since the income from the property rentals would probably be considered community property. The paying of the property taxes from that money may cause the rentals to fall into community as well. There isn't a way for the taxes etc. to be paid not using community funds that I can think of.
It would probably be a bad idea to have her work for the company since it would make it difficult to make the claim she acted as an employee only. There by making it difficult to determine what contribution she made. She probably will work if for nothing else out of boredom.
At the moment the money she has is what I have given her. She has access to around 5 or 6 k that I put into an account for her. It was intended for shopping and some other items. Since I gave it to her I suppose it could be used to pay for legal advise since technically its hers now. I would think that would get around the possible conflict of interest issue.
The infidelity issue will need to be put in. In Texas unlike California it is looked at even without a prenupt. I guess some states subscribe to moral virtues still. Amazing.
I saw the page you referenced. Most of the sites I visited more or less said the same. Generally prenupts are done for the very reason of getting around community property. Of course in a way where it still seems fair. What ever that is supposed to be.
Sonof, She doesn't drink so that plan won't work either.
The main difficulty with prenups is that you have to place contingencies on any possible outcome. It is even more difficult which you have one spouse with all income and assets while the other spouse does not. And this leads to what is fair or not. Basically, you might have to throw a bone, or a substantial bone, to her for signing the preupt. I am not saying you should split all property with her, but consider her time with the marriage based on ceetain conditions. This would include the reasons for fault of divorce from both you and her as well as no fault reasons.
As for the gift you made, currently it is her property; however, the asset in the bank account can become community property if argued a certain way.
However, I think in your case, you might want to consider a postnup. Basically it is the same as a prenuptial except it is signed during marriage and not before. Food for thought.
What it is really going to boil down is whether you future spouse sees the prenuptial as a hindrance or as an acceptance, whether a fair and equitable distribution is considered, and whether your future spouse and you are prepared for the strict legal consequences of the prenuptial.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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