________________________________________________________________________ "Our task now is not to fix the blame for the past, but to fix the course for the future." JFK
Again, I ask.. Would you feel the same way if he had a nazi past?
USA uses people of no scrupples all the time. the same that usa uses spies who double spy etc. They get a visa to be here. This was a job to translate. Mr. ahmed went a little further in hopes to get brownie points to clinch a green card.
Can you honestly tell me that this person's past doesnt leave you feeling just a little queasy?
I'll answer with a question back to you, 4Now. Why did the US government hire someone who had previous ties to a terrorist group? Wouldn't you think they would use a better screening process to hire people into our military??? (Or, any other job for that matter). I question the reasoning here.
For the record, I hope our government isn't hiring anyone with a nazi or terrorist background. I wonder if this guy just fell through the cracks???
This is a question that should be posed to the government, as I cannot answer why . I can give you an educated guess why I suspect they did. As I outlined to you in my post. usa uses people of all walks to get a job done. such is the case when issuing a U or S visa a an example. The nasty drug dealer and murderer will get a u visa to testify against someone. Should that person be rewarded with a greencard, and his whole family too? No, I think not, but they have to be here legally in order to do it or be available. hence these visas. (many times it will lead to a greencard)
the same with these special visas. In the beginning, usa was scrambling to get translators and cultural experts. Arabic specialists were not plentiful, espeically ones proficient in Iraq culture. They turned this guy down initially.. remember.. then later took him onboard with special visa to get a job done.
Did you ever read any of the horror stories of the army/marine/navy recruiters with how they entice? Its called marketing to get the job done. Usa may or may not have checked his background, or may just have ignored it. Usa often turns a blind eye in many cases. Just look at the terrorists in 911. They made special rules for the ones from saudi. Certain requirements were waived.
For instance, there have been those whose naturalizations have been taken away and deported back to Germany. even after 40 years becuase it became disclosed that they were Nazi. How did you feel about that? Do you think usa should let by gones be gone and a pardon be isssued 4 such?
Do you not think that attempting to overthrow a government is not serious matter? Dont forget that Saadam was our friend and ally in the beginning.
The visa routine is much better.. it can be temporary. Being permananet or citizeship is serious matter. Use them , then lose them. It is not like they were not compensated for their work.
Again, I ask.. Would you feel the same way if he had a nazi past?
USA uses people of no scrupples all the time. the same that usa uses spies who double spy etc. They get a visa to be here. This was a job to translate. Mr. ahmed went a little further in hopes to get brownie points to clinch a green card.
Can you honestly tell me that this person's past doesnt leave you feeling just a little queasy?
I'll answer with a question back to you, 4Now. Why did the US government hire someone who had previous ties to a terrorist group? Wouldn't you think they would use a better screening process to hire people into our military??? (Or, any other job for that matter). I question the reasoning here.
For the record, I hope our government isn't hiring anyone with a nazi or terrorist background. I wonder if this guy just fell through the cracks???
This is a question that should be posed to the government, as I cannot answer why . I can give you an educated guess why I suspect they did. As I outlined to you in my post. usa uses people of all walks to get a job done. such is the case when issuing a U or S visa a an example. The nasty drug dealer and murderer will get a u visa to testify against someone. Should that person be rewarded with a greencard, and his whole family too? No, I think not, but they have to be here legally in order to do it or be available. hence these visas. (many times it will lead to a greencard)
the same with these special visas. In the beginning, usa was scrambling to get translators and cultural experts. Arabic specialists were not plentiful, espeically ones proficient in Iraq culture. They turned this guy down initially.. remember.. then later took him onboard with special visa to get a job done.
Did you ever read any of the horror stories of the army/marine/navy recruiters with how they entice? Its called marketing to get the job done. Usa may or may not have checked his background, or may just have ignored it. Usa often turns a blind eye in many cases. Just look at the terrorists in 911. They made special rules for the ones from saudi. Certain requirements were waived.
For instance, there have been those whose naturalizations have been taken away and deported back to Germany. even after 40 years becuase it became disclosed that they were Nazi. How did you feel about that? Do you think usa should let by gones be gone and a pardon be isssued 4 such?
Do you not think that attempting to overthrow a government is not serious matter? Dont forget that Saadam was our friend and ally in the beginning.
The visa routine is much better.. it can be temporary. Being permananet or citizeship is serious matter. Use them , then lose them. It is not like they were not compensated for their work.
I appreciate the discussion, 4Now. I didn't know the US was using all these 'dirty' tricks when hiring people to fill certain jobs. Sounds unscrupulous to me. If the guy was indeed tied to a terrorist organization, then, my answer is no - I wouldn't want to see him get a green card.
4now you don't know (not sure if this is an American term or not) ..jacks...
Maybe you should ask someone who is on the front line and ask if these guys are really important and necessary in a war situation or to help with the fight against terrorism?
They not only have the language but they also have the intelligence and that is why the US and other countries use them.
No way would the US Government hire them without screening them. Do you really think they would just put anyone in top security places or on the front line alongside their own countrymen and women? They will know all sort of information that would be classed as classified, they don't let anyone know this.
My brother who serves in the British Army had translators and were used for translation and intelligence with him in Iraq and other countries where he served in wars. They really rely on these men, they need them.
If the US simply just hire anybody and let them in to classified information, then the US will be open to God knows what.
4now..these men deserve Citizenship far more than you and I.
Where are you from originally 4now? Is this more of a matter of someone betraying their country for another I wonder? Or where he was from?
I would like to know if they drafted you into a war before you got your Citizenship, and then turned you down when you applied for some reason, would you find that just?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U.
Originally posted by Rough Neighbor: How did we welcome you again?
Its all relative
I was welcomed becuase I was qualified.
That's my main problem when discussing with you. Your thoughts (if any) and your actions don't add up, you just corrupted our language irresponsibly above even in a very short expression, and when you're advancing your very strict territorial claims on this country. You're just a lonesome mermaid in a small lagoon but you want to impose your authority over the whole ocean.
________________________________________________________________________ "Our task now is not to fix the blame for the past, but to fix the course for the future." JFK
my other point here is.. what is considered terroist org.. this is always the big thing.
If an organization was not considered terrorist 2 years ago, but now suddenly it is.
Now what do you think? Who do you trust to put these labels on groups?
It's hard to know who or what resources to trust anymore. I'm still struggling to figure out why we hired this guy in the first place - lol! Are you saying that the possibility exists that this organization wasn't considered a terrorist group when we hired him, but now is considered to be one? That doesn't set well with me.
Proud, the KDP used to be classed as a terrorist group years ago, because they tried to overthrow Suddam.
KDP are involved with the Iraq government now.
When they hired this guy, the US military did not find KDP as a terrorist group anymore so it was not a problem. But USCIS still have KDP on the terrorist group list. Basically they have not updated it. Like someone mentioned, what was classed as a terrorist years ago isn't now, and vice versa.
There could be thousands of citizens in this country that was given Citizenship years ago that had dealings with a what is now called a Terrorist group but as it wasn't back then, they had no problem getting their Citizenship.
Whoever denied him obviously didn't do any checking and probably didn't talk with the necessary people in the US military or higher up in the Government. They just look at a list and then deny the GC on those grounds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U.
The KDP was not a classed as a terrorist group when they hired him, but the USCIS list was not updated.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U.
I just went back and reread the article. I did see the part about KDP not being classifed as a terrorist group, but USCIS makes determinations about 'undesignated terrorist organizations' on a case by case basis. That doesn't sound too foolproof to me.
I also find it interesting that KDP attempted to overthrow Hussein (so we think of them as a possible terrorist group), but didn't the US do the same thing? So, based on this line of thinking, is the US a possible terrorist group????
Interesting discussions - I can see where both RoughN (and SprintG/ProudU) and 4Now are coming from. If this would set a precedent, the US may have a problem recruiting translators unless they are absolutely sure that they are going to be given what they were promised.
Do all the good you can, in all the ways you can, as long as ever you can.
...................................................................................................................................... impossibility is a word found only in the dictionary of fools
Interesting discussions - I can see where both RoughN (and SprintG/ProudU) and 4Now are coming from. If this would set a precedent, the US may have a problem recruiting translators unless they are absolutely sure that they are going to be given what they were promised.
I hope you know I was just using sarcasm, Mrs. B., when I made the statement about the US.
If the US simply just hire anybody and let them in to classified information, then the US will be open to God knows what.
These people have different security level clearences. they do not get access to certain classified information as you imply. Only those meeting that security level criteria. USA has been open to God knows what in various people that they use. Do you think they only use upstanding citizens from other countries? If you believe that , then you dont know jack.
4now..these men deserve Citizenship far more than you and I.
WHY.. tell me why. You dont have a justification for this statement. You are speaking from emotion or so called "patriotism"
Where are you from originally 4now? Is this more of a matter of someone betraying their country for another I wonder? Or where he was from?
Wonder as you like, as it is not relative to my mode of thinking. Doesnt matter where he came from or is going. It is the same in the matter in ILLEGAL =ILLEGAL.. it doesnt matter where you are from. As easily as he betrayed his country, it is as easy that he can betray this country and plot to overthrow this government.
I would like to know if they drafted you into a war before you got your Citizenship, and then turned you down when you applied for some reason, would you find that just?
again, you are forgetting that if I was drafted into a war, I would have been a legal immigrant. The rules and special processing for immigrants seeking citizenship have been duly noted here in my other post.
This person was not an immigrant!!. [COLOR:blue]4 crying out loud, he only had a special visa. He wasnt promised a greencard. Only the opportunity to apply for one as a blanket statemet/invitation. So how does he deserve citizenship more than you or i if he did not meet the requirements to even qualify for a greencard
And the "some reason " would have to be a good one and justified. if justified, then what could be said.
Just because one has a visa does not entitle one to a greencard. But I guess that is why there are 20 million overstays that are expecting to get a greencard just for overstaying. visa =visa . nothing more.
I just went back and reread the article. I did see the part about KDP not being classifed as a terrorist group, but USCIS makes determinations about 'undesignated terrorist organizations' on a case by case basis. That doesn't sound too foolproof to me.
I also find it interesting that KDP attempted to overthrow Hussein (so we think of them as a possible terrorist group), but didn't the US do the same thing? So, based on this line of thinking, is the US a possible terrorist group????
Proud and mrs B. If the shoe fits ,
I know your mother is sitting on your shoulder to not dare think like that.. but is it not true? Or is it only justified.
You dont have to answer that, as I know you have been indoctrinated to believe that such a statement would be unamerican. It is simply a matter of point of view, and patriotism.
TRuth is truth. One cannot sugarcoat or cover the truth in reality. Beware of lying to one's self. A rose is a rose, by any other name.. it is still a rose.
smells like, looks like, must be.
Mrs. B. ,
the usa will not have trouble recruiting translators. They were never promised greencards to begin with, only the opportunity to apply for one.
The poet Horatio Smith wrote:
"Patriotism," he wrote, "is too often the hatred of other countries disguised as the love of our own
This message has been edited. Last edited by: 4now,
Originally posted by Rough Neighbor: How did we welcome you again?
Its all relative
I was welcomed becuase I was qualified.
That's my main problem when discussing with you. Your thoughts (if any) and your actions don't add up, you just corrupted our language irresponsibly above even in a very short expression, and when you're advancing your very strict territorial claims on this country. You're just a lonesome mermaid in a small lagoon but you want to impose your authority over the whole ocean.
And my main problem in discussing anything with you is that you are an ashhope to nit pic in a way that only a crayola sort of person would do. Did I spell it correct
I know your mother is sitting on your shoulder to not dare think like that.. but is it not true? Or is it only justified.
You dont have to answer that, as I know you have been indoctrinated to believe that such a statement would be unamerican. It is simply a matter of point of view, and patriotism.
TRuth is truth. One cannot sugarcoat or cover the truth in reality. Beware of lying to one's self. A rose is a rose, by any other name.. it is still a rose.
smells like, looks like, must be.
quote:
Proud and mrs B. If the shoe fits ,
I know your mother is sitting on your shoulder to not dare think like that.. but is it not true? Or is it only justified.
You dont have to answer that, as I know you have been indoctrinated to believe that such a statement would be unamerican. It is simply a matter of point of view, and patriotism.
TRuth is truth. One cannot sugarcoat or cover the truth in reality. Beware of lying to one's self. A rose is a rose, by any other name.. it is still a rose.
smells like, looks like, must be.
What is it you are trying to say, 4Now - lol! Come on - spill it! Do you think the USA should be considered a terrorist country based on the invasion of Iraq? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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