Cayita, oh, well, racism works either way. If you're not the "receiver," as your tone suggests, you might be the "giver." Give your two cents to charity, for a change. Yeah, right, we look at ourselves in the mirror.... At last, one of the best ideas I've seen in quite awhile.

In Reply to Sesaria

I never said the government or anyone else owed me anything. What I said was the government and U.S. citizens have turned their heads on illegals coming across the border. They never really tried to enforce anything. No one here really cared as long as the work got done, and they didn't have to do it. Don't try to change my words. I don't feel anyone owes my anything. I do expect the same fair treatment as every other citizen gets in this country. I have the right to live, marry, have kids, pay for my medical care, and pay my fair share of taxes. Which I certainly do.

In reply to Cayita

I didn't not say that family should be main reason for illegals to get pardoned. What crime? What time should I do? What fine should I pay? That is the problem. Judges let rapist, child molesters, drug dealers, etc. out of jail in less time than a person who crossed illegal gets.

Ask a person who is in a mixed relationship (race, not status) how they feel they are treated by people on all sides.

Then ask those people who they feel controls and runs this country.

You seem to be a professional. So, in other words, you have a job that people tend to respect. So you may not feel the racist bit that others feel, especially in smaller communities. But, if you cleaned the toilets or mopped the floors, would they have the same respect for you. Would they treat you the same way?

I did not say all people treated me this way. I just found it really surprising to see that side of people. Especially, with people I have known all my life.

I never said it was OK to break the law. I have drove a little too fast and got a ticket. I paid my fine and went on about my business. Can't really say I broke any other laws though. But I do believe those African-American people who sat on the bus, used the wrong water fountain, and sat at the lunch counter at the wrong place, broke laws. At least they broke the laws that were on the books at the time. I am by no way comparing what African-Americans went through in Alabama and other states to the problem today with illegal immigration. My point is, if someone breaks the law, then fine and punish them accordingly. The punishment on the books today for overstaying or crossing illegal is a little to excessive. Using the reasoning of this government, people who overstay their visas should receive a harsher punishment than illegals. By your own admission, most of the people you know are lower educated people. They would not have the same knowledge that someone who received the visa would have. A person who recieves a visa knows the laws. That person knows his or her restrictions. They should be made aware of the rules and regulations associated with their particular visa. If they have this knowledge, then they should have no excuse to violate or overstay that visa. I also know that ignorance of the law is no excuse. So no one try to throw that in my face. The only point I was trying to make is that Cayita stated that the people were uneducated or from the poorer regions of their countries so most would not have the knowledge of the visa and immigration system. ****, most regular, everyday Americans can't even understand it.

Before a move on to the next reply, Cayita, how did you come to be here? I am not trying to be ugly. I was just wondering if you were born here, if you parents were born here, or if they came here on a visa. Even if you have never felt this rasicism, perhaps your parents or grandparents did. In some places things haven't changed. They just substituted one race in the place another. Since the Civil Rights era, things have gotten better for the African-Americans. But, in some of those same places, they just substituted African-Amercians with Latinos, Asians, or another ethnic group. I am glad that you have never experienced what it feels like to be treated that way.

In reply to Davdah

I don't feel that I am a failure. But it is funny that you would automatically assume that.
I have no need to look in the mirror. I have no problem with who I am. What I do have a problem with is self-righteous, hypocrits who feel that they have the right to look down their nose at me or anyone else like me. Because we live in this country, they have that right. I also have the right to call them pompous a**holes. But that doesn't get anything accomplished. These people act as if they have never made a mistake or indiscretion. We all know that nobody in this world is prefect.


By the way Davdah, sold that business for nice little profit. I think that would make that a success not a failure. Maybe I should check the dictionary just to make sure.


Some of you may feel this is a stupid question. I was wondering if some could tell me just what type of law is being broke when people enter EWI. I believe I read somewhere that crossing is a misdeamnor. I also believe I read that when people are arrested for being here illegally that certain rights don't pertain to them because the arrest is more under civil law than criminal law. If it is more civil than criminal, why is the punishment so harsh? Wouldn't civil fall more into the the category of fines?


A couple of months before I sold my business, the county commissioners voted to raise our county sales tax. We had a meeting before the tax raise and everyone was really supportive. The new tax was going to our schools. There were questions about where the people thought the new money would come from. Most of the teachers don't live locally and the ones who do, don't shop here. Most of the sales in our area come from thru traffic and the neighboring counties. The neighboring counties can't sell beer. We have no major industries in this area. Most every one works out of the county. My point is that a lot of the sales that are made locally are from a growing hispanic population. Most will not drive to far and some of the stores started carrying items to meet their needs. So a growing amount of money was being spent by these people. I have no idea if they were legal or illegal. I never asked. Also, the majority of these people have no kids in our schools. They buy tags for their vehicles in our county. By buying items and tags, they pay taxes for schools, fire dept., hospital (nursing home), and our new jail. I am not going to say that they have never used our services, but between their pay checks, gas tax, sales tax, and tag fees, these people more than pay for any services they might use.

Another problem that really bothers me is the constant news media reporting every crime that involves an illegal. I remember 20 or so years ago MADD and SADD doing everything they could to fight drinking and driving. Well, it is still a problem today and not just by illegals. We will never be able to solve this problem as long as people believe themselves to be invincible when they are drunk. This is not just a problem for illegals.

Most of the illegals here today don't want to be citizens. They want to be able to work and go back home. They have families there. Having a legal work force is not such a bad idea. But why create a new problem. Why open a new program for people to apply to come and work when there is already people here willing and working? Whether we like it or not those people are here. Every American is responsible for them being here. We have been so engrossed in our own lives that we haven't paid attention to what has been going on. We did take a second glance at the new man in the assembly line. Then a little later another new man and so on. Before you know it you look up and you are surrounded by immigrants. That is when the panic sets in for people. Imagine though that if that first man had not filled that job or the second or so on, you might have lost your job. That company might not have had enough people to work when the immigrants first started working there. Now with the companies going overseas or to Mexico, things are slowing down and people have taken the time to look around. I find it real funny that most are just now noticing the Hispanic neighborhoods growing.

Good response, djim. Sensible.

Djim,

I will try to answer your questions/comments.

1. I moved to the US five years ago because my husband is a citizen. At the time I had a tourist visa but we did the whole immigrant visa process (K-1), even though it was long and expensive, because we both respect the law of this country.

2. You said that I may not feel the racism because I dont have a low-skills job. In that case, we are not talking about racism but "classism" (a very common problem in Latin America). People who look down on others because of their job, education or economic will do so regardless of the race (and even among their "race-mates").

3. The punishment should fit the crime. We both agree on that. Now, why do we punish people? There are several reasons (I believe me, I know about this because I use to be a lawyer): 1) To discourage people to commit the crime (prevention), 2) To rehabilitate people (so they learn a lesson and wont do it again), 3) To keep them out of the street (and the rest of the society would be safer), 4) and to actually punish them.

Now, which is the right punishment for a person that is here illegally? If you dont return them to their country (reverse the crime), and let them stay, then you are not actually punish them, but instead rewarding them for breaking the law (imagine someone who doesnt pay taxes for years and as punishment they have to pay a fine but not pay back the taxes they owe; the reasonable thing is both: pay the taxes you PLUS the fine). What about a fine? Well, the problem with be the amount. Illegals can pay $ 5,000 to sneak through the border and $ 20,000 for a marriage to fix their papers. So the fine would have to be way higher than that (remember you have to discourage the crime). But then you are putting the residency "for sale". I can assure you that millions of people abroad would pay $50,000 for the right to live here legally.

4. 99.9% of illegals (even the very low educated ones) know that sneaking through the border or overstaying their visas is wrong. They know that of they get caught they will be returned. But they do it anyway.

Rough Neighbor,

Why do you think I am racist? Just because I believe EVERYONE should respect the law? Believe me, I treat everybody the same, regarless of their race, religion, legal status, etc. I do admit that I dont have the highest regards for people who make poor irresponsible choices (like buying a house that they clearly can't afford and then complain about the payments, dropping of high school, have unprotected ***, and so on) but I still treat them in a polite and courteous way.

I believe the racial card is overplayed. I can't stand Al Sharpton and La Raza. For them everything is discrimination. They are as bad as white supremacist.

Cayita, your wasting your breath. Its ok for someone like djim, rn,or explora to make racist remarks but if you say otherwise they will call you the very thing they are guilty of. You probably don't wear your race as a badge of honor or with attitude. People like the above can't stand that. You don't support la raza. Oh how terrible. Your looked upon as a traitor to the cause.

Why did I say failure djim? Simple. Anytime someone starts blaming a group of people for their own plite it always goes back to the same thing. Someone else is better off and they can't stand it. Instead of looking at themselves they take the easy way out and play the race card. No one has a leg up over anyone else so long as they are legal. Thats too bad they don't since they aren't supposed to be here to begin with. That also explains the issue of rights, or more to the point, lack of. They are not U.S. citizens and are therefor not entitled to the same rights.

It is not every Americans fault they are here. Look at the gallop poles. Most are wondering why the Gov hasn't stopped it. Stay tuned wer'e all in for some big surprises.

How laughable, the idea that a person is looked down on because of their race when they are the janitor. Uhh no. Its the job, not the person. Never in history has a janitor been exhalted. Sorry, but their job is to mop the floor of the stock exchange not trade on it. It could also be how the janitor is looking back that gets the responses they get. The janitors look is not invisible. The hate shines through. So don't expect a pleasant smile back.

The number of people paying their way to sneak over here is very rare compared to the hordes that jump the border. The fact the 99.9% know its wrong makes the point that much stronger. They are law breakers by nature. Why should we trust them?

some simple facts...
A- illegals have no respect for U.S. laws
B- They believe (incorrectly) that they have the 'right' to sneak or scam their way into the US of A only because they may have a miserable life in another country (false)
C- supporters of illegals fail to understand that if we reward illegals in any way, shape or form, more will sneak or scam their way into America.
D- no one should be granted a green card just because they marry somebody that is desperate, and moreover, ALL waivers for EWI, misrepresentation and fraud, overstays, drugs, crimes, etc, should be eliminated - thus removing any incentives by illegals to marry the first desperate person they scam.
E- illegals have NO right to free medical care.
F- illegals have NO right to get a driver's license
G- illegals have NO right to get in-state tuition.
H- those who marry illegals have NO right to live together in the US of A,.yep...read our Constitution, there is nary a word in this document that mentions such a "right."
I- those who would support or reward illegals have always failed to provide a rational explanation for doing so,,,,question...(to all you illegal alien supporters),,would you give a bank robber a faster get-away car when he gets caught? Would you give a burglar the key to your home if he gets caught breaking and entering? Would you give better weapons to those who commit assault (or worse) against US citizens? Most of you (I hope) would answer 'no' to all of these questions, yet for some unknown reason illegal alien supporters want to reward illegals for breaking and entering the US of A, stealing jobs and indentities, causing car wrecks and walking away from the damages, filling our schools with their diseased-ridden brats....and for this, we are supposed to hand them a green card (and eventual citizenship)???? WHY??
And why should those who are currently outside the US, waiting their turn to immigrate LEGALLY to AMerica be forced to wait and be disadvantaged by illegals 'jumping the line?" What do you illegal alien supporters say to this?
As to the OP, he is just spouting blather.

S12 a.k.a. Mr. Doofus, 'Eye Strain!' I suppose you copy and paste all that verbage over from your folder, eh? Same 'ol same 'ol without the dirty words. ...diseased-ridden brats? You should take your garbage-laden fingers off the keyboard, white trash.

My eyes are sore from just looking at it. They became sore when I saw your name. Change it to MRSA which you're of the same strain - difficult to get rid of!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: explora,

I have said this before, and I'm saying it again due to its relevance.

This is not something new in the immigration history of the US - from the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 to IRCA of 1986. This country is known for being both just and kind - depending on the prevailing political climate at a given time.

Unfortunately, the problem of US illegal immigration is viewed with short-sightedness. And remedies and cures are patterned so as well, in a short-term basis. This is actually a "social reality" and a "legal impossibility."

Hence, it should be viewed in its whole spectrum with eyes wide open as a "law-enforcement," "economic," and "humanitarian" issue. Any action taken independently from the other is bound to fail.

Throughout history, how many times have we said enough is enough, and how many truckloads (or planeloads) have we filled? And yet, count by generations backwards, can we claim that our battle cry of today is unique?

You may call this view liberal. I would want to refer to it as rational.

Let's distinguish "what it should be" from "what it is." The former is the "idealism" that you can expect to find in a poetry book. The latter is the harsh "realism" of our days.

It's a matter of point of view. You can either accept this as a real problem to deal with or a reality that runs counter to your idealisms to reject and hate.

But remember, the 9/11 hijackers "played by the messy rules" that were readily available at the time. There is where, like you, I'm having serious issues with.

Amid the current morass, there's no workable mechanism for us to reasonably determine who are seeping through the cracks to just be some low-risk irritants (use fake documents, work unauthorized, don't or pay little taxes, enjoy free healthcare/education, drive unlicensed, etc.) or hardened criminals, or worst of all, those who mean us bigtime harm like that of 9/11 magnitude.

Reports have it that around 21,000 immigration misfits slipped through our borders, legally through proper channels, and mingling with us right now, within the last fiscal year.

Into anything that's sweet, ants will swarm. This is a universal truism. Sweet as we are (just yet), it's incumbent upon us to reign in the reckless ants. They won't do it on their own. And we don't do (enough) what we should.

Raids here and there, and patchwork legislation then and now won't do the tricks - except of course to lubricate the campaign machineries of these or those political party factions.

I can go on and on but please, I'm just as unhappy like the rest. I may not be as furious, but very, very scared.

Djim,
Your views and experience are both valued, refreshing and insightful. I learned a long time ago that to those who lack understanding, no explanation is sufficient. It's like reasoning with a drunk...you just can't. Why? The answer is simple...because they're drunk.

To those who have not experienced racism, prejudice, classism, or however you want to label it, you cannot explain the feeling, the frustration, the pain. You can not make them understand, they choose NOT to understand, that would require too much soul searching. I don't think it's their fault. I think it's because they have inadequate experience(s) to draw from. They just don't get it, they unfortunately probably never will.
Instead, when feelings of conviction start to surface in their own consciousness, they squelch it, surpress it and rationalize it away. They get defensive, righteous and draw upon the things they find comfort in, themselves and their own self righteousness.
They don't get it because they have been sheltered by their own life's experiences...feeling oh so righteous...oh so much better than most. (Too painful to engage in empathy here.)
One day, if they are lucky enough to have a heart that hears instead of a brain that rejects, they will get it. One day, if their grandfather or great aunt sits them down and explains to them that life is bigger then themselves, they MAY hear it. Probably not though.

You don't need to look in the mirror, because your writings have shown that you have looked internally for a very long time. The problem of the mirror is a big one though, as a matter of fact, that is the problem. To some, that's all they have....the mirror. They have been looking too long into it and admiring the beauty it produces, but they have not examined the mirror of their own soul.
Kudos to you Djim.

quote:

Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
Explora: With all due respect, your posts are so irrational that they're barely even worth responding to. Quite honestly, I'm not surprised that you immediately jumped to Djim's defense - because you're both apologists for illegal aliens, you're willing to overlook, even defend, his racism and bigotry...and then you add a little racism of your own for good measure.

I admit to being a little surprised by your examples of racism, however. You say some nasty things about white people, but fail to provide any concrete examples. You then proceed to cite examples of Hispanic racism...and, what do you know, a few concrete examples spanning both America and that third-world country to our south. Of course,you must believe that it's the fault of white people in America that Mexican TV portrays light-skinned people in positions of power and influence. You're quite pathetic.

As an act of civil kindness and generosity, I would like to take this opportunity to correct some grammatical errors that I noticed in this posting:

Grammatical error #1:
"Quite honestly, I'm not surprised that you immediately jumped to Djim's defense - because you're both apologists for illegal aliens, you're willing to overlook, even defend, his racism and bigotry...and then you add a little racism of your own for good measure."

(A period is in order after the word "defense". "Because" should be removed, "You're" needs to be capitalized. This sentence is a classic run-on, including inappropriate use of punctuation.)


Grammatical error #2:
"I admit to being a little surprised by your examples of racism, however."

(Improper use of the word "however". "However" should be used in the beginning of this sentence, not at the end if we want to acheive ultimate grammatical correctness.)

Grammatical error #3:
"You then proceed to cite examples of Hispanic racism...and, what do you know, a few concrete examples spanning both America and that third-world country to our south."

(A question word is used in this sentence, "what". A question mark is appropriate when asking a question in any English sentence.)


-Courtesy of Needhelpfast
(no charge)

quote:

Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
Djim: Well, that's quite an incoherent rant. What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand exactly?

You self-righteously assert that you "were brought up to not see color, to help someone who needs it, and to treat others as I would like to be treated." They think they are so superior than any other color. I prefer people like myself." Quite apart from the fact that your English-language skills and spelling are atrocious, you fall victim to your own bigotry and sense of entitlement (how typical).

I'd also be interested to know what part of your heritage is allegedly "Native" American...and whether your "Native" American ancestors were, in fact, Mexican before they were lucky enough to become American after 1848. Of course, I'd be stunned if you actually know anything of your supposed heritage, and could barely trace your family history further than your grandparents.

How typical, also, that you see immigration within your own family as a great way for you to obtain even more welfare benefits than you get already!! Why don't you all try working for a living?

This is another opportunity for learning!
This lesson will focus on sentence structure...



Grammatiical error #1:
"What a load of BS - you're nothing but a two-faced little racist who states, in your own words, that you're "really not to keen on too many whites."
(This is another prime example of a "run-on" sentence with inaccurate use of punctuation.
Writer needs to restate and rethink his/her use of punctuation and verbage.)



Grammatical error #2:
"I'd also be interested to know what part of your heritage is allegedly "Native" American...and whether your "Native" American ancestors were, in fact, Mexican before they were lucky enough to become American after 1848."
(Run-ons continue here with this writer!
Again, as stated with previous corrections, the writer forgot to include a question mark in this question statement. The "sentence" is another classic example of a "run-on". It is too long and also lacks proper punctuation and structure.)

Grammatical error #3:
"How typical, also, that you see immigration within your own family as a great way for you to obtain even more welfare benefits than you get already!!"
(This is a fragment. It contains numerous errors! SD, you need a noun and a verb to make this sentence complete. The word "that" which preceeds "you" makes this statement a fragment. "That" turns this statement into a prepositional phrase, and it can not stand alone without an independent noun and verb outside of the phrase.)

Explora

Sorry about not responding to your question.
Let's just say that some people in the Southeast still feel that the South should have won.

and to explora...what have you contributed to this site other than uninformed blather? Answer:nothing. Now, if you think you are some sort of self-styled expert on US immigration law, etc, please, provide a rational, logical and legal explanation as to why illegals should be allowed to come and go to the US as they please, engage in marriage fraud, ID theft, etc....come on....let's see a sample of your 78 IQ hard at work....

quote:

Originally posted by djim:
Explora

Sorry about not responding to your question.
Let's just say that some people in the Southeast still feel that the South should have won.

That's exactly where I was guessing.

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
and to explora...what have you contributed to this site other than uninformed blather? Answer:nothing. Now, if you think you are some sort of self-styled expert on US immigration law, etc, please, provide a rational, logical and legal explanation as to why illegals should be allowed to come and go to the US as they please, engage in marriage fraud, ID theft, etc....come on....let's see a sample of your 78 IQ hard at work....

And if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...and if you think you are...

Question.
Answer.
If you think...
78 IQ...
Seems you're already doing a good job yourself, as always?