Let it went. Nothing makes people calmer and more straight to the point than wenting their frustrations. Afterwards it's idle in the soul and mind starts working Same with illegal immigrant issue. Let all people concerned and upset by it speak their minds, let them make their points against it and express all their feelings, however disagreeable it may sound to those who don't share those thoughts and feelings. Some of anger may be due to decades of "political correctness" preceding it...
In the end it will come to what it may come to. Perhaps borders will be better secured, waves of migration will come down (as they always do), of 12 to 20 millions some will remain here and eventually legalise, others won't, and some day whole thing will make into history books with our grandchildren reading about it. It's Life. Take it as is.
Good night to all and have Happy Holidays!
Have all the good s.ex you can, in all the ways you can, for as long as ever you can !
-- Sabuntium The Great
Posts: 928 | Location: Originally from: Galaxy of Centaurus A (also known as NGC 5128) | Registered: 06-26-2008
RN, I have so much to say about this. But, I have things to do this evening. One thing I will comment on is this. Part of the supremecy has to do with taxation. That same tactict should and will be employed in upcoming state legislation.
The states have a right to collect their taxes just as Uncle Sam. If they are being cheated then they too can act accordingly. Which will be used to get around those that are using the constitution to subvert state rights.
The sad thing is it has nothing to do with something right. Its a perverted use of law to promote an ant-American agenda.
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
Posts: 5792 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
Another twist is forthcoming I suppose. I raised up immigration issue, not taxation. The Supremacy Clause has an ocean of relevance, of course.
___________________________________________________________________ "The letter of the law is a sword that killeth; its intent is a spirit that giveth life."
Originally posted by davdah: RN, I have so much to say about this. But, I have things to do this evening. One thing I will comment on is this. Part of the supremecy has to do with taxation. That same tactict should and will be employed in upcoming state legislation.
The states have a right to collect their taxes just as Uncle Sam. If they are being cheated then they too can act accordingly. Which will be used to get around those that are using the constitution to subvert state rights.
The sad thing is it has nothing to do with something right. Its a perverted use of law to promote an ant-American agenda.
What do you have planned, Davdah? Certainly it can't be more important than ILW - lol!
Mass deportation is a total joke! It only take a fence to do it all again! They knew EWI won't give them the chance to apply and legalize their status and they still do it. If they care about their children they won't put them on an ilegal status.
I say the gov. should go after this Employer who hire them. They should make them pay Health Care and School.
One on a student visa pays double to study here. One on a working visa pays insurance.
CIR should be more for those who apply and until now are stuck on the line. This will encourage them to do it legally.
Zvisa is still an amnesty even they get background checks, learn English,and blah blah c rap! They still get ahead on line with those waiting in line.
In this time of crisis , Americans should be the priority first.
The amount of fines required to make it right is beyond what most could afford.
There should be a criteria. I'm not trying to give our country away to illegals, guys. Just trying to be reasonable considering factors at hand. If the illegals are hard working people paying taxes and Social Security, why should they be given the boot as opposed to all the lazy a.ss Americans who won't do the work and have the benefit of welfare?
They should be given the boot because they are not supposed to be here. They rudely jumped the line. Illegals cannot in anyway compare to natural born citizens, or legal immigrants, whether they work or dont work.
They should be given the boot because there are family members of those american citizens that wait in line legally to come. Why should these people that disregarded and disrespected the rules be rewarded by bypassing them???
No a fine willl not do. Go home and get in the back of the line. When your time comes up, then pay a fine and you can come back in. That is fair.
What is wrong with leaving them as is until the problems of america get sorted out?
Lets get back to the amnesty for americans agenda. student loans forgiven, mortgage relief, assisted educations. Forget about amnesty for illegals. Ignore them 4now. Concentrate on the Lpr and citizens .
Obama's plans, guess who will be the big beneficiaries in the child care programs.. you guessed it, it wont be americans.
@ DAV,BTW, you are big mccain supporter, do you have his plan for the amerian future for all to see and compare?
@RN..& DAV. Why is status quo unacceptable ? Do you have a problem with them staying status quo for the next 8 to 10 yrs? If so, why Without the illegal nonsense being added to the CIR, these reforms could be passed no problem. Give them Das boot off the bill.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: 4now,
Olaha, you can't encourage a law breaker to walk straight. All they will understand is handcuffs. These EWI types have no respect for our laws. Any more than they cared about the country they ran away from. No loyalty, or character. They are fully aware of what they are doing. Even if some level of ignorance existed upon entry, that soon changes as they learn how to dodge the lawman.
They subject their children to eventually becoming a border orphan. Would anyone put their child in harms way? Every day they stay the risk of being captured grows. What if they are caught and the 2 year old is left at home alone. Its hours at least or maybe days before they can be released. Don't blame la migra. The U.S. Border patrol didn't cause that person to break our laws or leave their own children in danger. That is as low as you can get. All for what? To take jobs or entire industries and drive the wages substandard. Is their home country so bad? Why isn't the entire populace crossing our border? Why, its because these lawless child abusers were losers in their home country. A country that doesn't have the multitude of safety nets we have.
We have our own pond scum. The ones spending an existence on disability or welfare. Do we need more of the same? Does anyone think they won't assert their 'rights' if made legal? What?, work in the fields? No way, that work is for illegals. Besides, the employer just fired them all for demanding a raise. I'm entitled now! Those rumblings are already present. Don't we already here demands for rights that don't exist, la raza parades. What will happen when they do?
It isn't about how much someone pays in taxes. Its knowing they will fill out their return with some level of honesty. If every action for years has been based on lies and deception how can anyone expect a sudden change?
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
Posts: 5792 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
Originally posted by davdah: It depends on how the questions are posed to people. This was demonstrated in Los Angeles a few months ago on a radio show, KFI-640. The idea was to show that a poll can be made to show just about anything depending on what is considered an affirmative answer or not. The illegal alien problem was the issue and the topic of fines was the key element.
Many people felt they should be fined. But how it's worded made it appear that people were in favor of letting them stay if they paid a fine. In truth what the person wanted was a fine imposed and deported. Which in fact is what most people do want.
I merely grabbed the first four that came up. Regardless, the issue is a hot one for what reason? Why are people upset and the congress looking for answers? What is it about their presence that created this chaos?
Are they really doing jobs we don't want? Are they paying taxes and offsetting their direct and indirect costs imposed on society at large? Are they making a significant contribution to crime? It isn't so much them being here. Its what they do while they're here that has people riled up.
Davdah, When you state they don't pay taxes, please use the term "income taxes." Taxes is a very braod category and can include income, excise, property, sales, tarrifs, occupational, and other taxes.
First and foremost, the way the tax code is written, not to mention how tax forms are designed, it is impossible to make any accurate interpretation who does and does not pay income taxes. There have been some studies by the IRs that completely contradict your statements Davdah. In fact, one study by the IRS in 2006 suggest illegals follow the same patterns with USC and legal residents when it comes to tax compliance. You also have a $1 trillion underground economy which illegals only contribute 19% to 30% of total revenue.
With slightly less than 50% of the total US taxpayer population not paying taxes, the idea that illegals are are not paying their share is somewhat distorted. What od you do with individuals who do not pay any property taxes? Are they not allowed to attend public school or other taxpayer funded programs?
As far as jobs, a majority tax jobs that most people, including African Americans find degrading or unrewarding. Again, contructino companies have found it difficult to hire individuals, even with higher pay, a sustainable workforce. Turnover rates have tripled, with turnover rates as high as 200%, in meat packing plants. That is a substantioal cost to employers which would not allow them to stay in business for very long. They would either move the plannt somewhere else, generally outsidee the US, or close shop completely and let competition, usually outside the US, take over.
Yes it does depend on how the question is worded. However, it also shows a split with most consumers on what to do with illegals as well as the connotation of how illegals are portrayed in society. US history has repeated this flaw, even with former slaves and Confederate Soldiers after the Civil War. This is no different, but it also shows that some people have never learned the failed lessons of our history.
The problem is there are no absolute right answers in their dilemma. Again,
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by davdah: RN, I have so much to say about this. But, I have things to do this evening. One thing I will comment on is this. Part of the supremecy has to do with taxation. That same tactict should and will be employed in upcoming state legislation.
The states have a right to collect their taxes just as Uncle Sam. If they are being cheated then they too can act accordingly. Which will be used to get around those that are using the constitution to subvert state rights.
The sad thing is it has nothing to do with something right. Its a perverted use of law to promote an ant-American agenda.
I think you are right. I propose the Texas Legislature impose a $500,000 fine to anyone from California that has obtained Texas residency or is in the process of obtaining Texas residency or has a domicile in Texas to ne paid forthwith. Failure to pay the fine will result in immediate foreclosure of all property, forfeiture of Texas residency, and a prison time of 20 years to be served in unit H of the Huntsville State Prison!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by olalala: Mass deportation is a total joke! It only take a fence to do it all again! They knew EWI won't give them the chance to apply and legalize their status and they still do it. If they care about their children they won't put them on an ilegal status.
I say the gov. should go after this Employer who hire them. They should make them pay Health Care and School.
One on a student visa pays double to study here. One on a working visa pays insurance.
CIR should be more for those who apply and until now are stuck on the line. This will encourage them to do it legally.
Zvisa is still an amnesty even they get background checks, learn English,and blah blah c rap! They still get ahead on line with those waiting in line.
In this time of crisis , Americans should be the priority first.
Charity always starts at home!
Not necessarily, The Z visa would be a non immigrant visa much like the H visa. That is why I would want the Z visa to be part of the larger nonimmigrant work visas, namely the H visa, not a separate visa category.
The biggest problem with employers is not that they hire intentionally, but that employers do not know how to distinguish real and fake documents. What needs to be proposed is additional training by law enforcement to HR personnelin document forgery determination.
But I do agree with you that decreasing wait times for legal immigrants is the first prriority. Like I said, the SKIL act, increasing the number of family based vidas, reducing the wait times on background checks are just as important. But you will find that a few members don't even want reform for legal immigrants. Those posters tend to have a feeling that legal immigrants is just one notch above, (on the extreme lower section) the illegal immigrants in that proverbial totem poll.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by davdah: Olaha, you can't encourage a law breaker to walk straight. All they will understand is handcuffs. These EWI types have no respect for our laws. Any more than they cared about the country they ran away from. No loyalty, or character. They are fully aware of what they are doing. Even if some level of ignorance existed upon entry, that soon changes as they learn how to dodge the lawman.
They subject their children to eventually becoming a border orphan. Would anyone put their child in harms way? Every day they stay the risk of being captured grows. What if they are caught and the 2 year old is left at home alone. Its hours at least or maybe days before they can be released. Don't blame la migra. The U.S. Border patrol didn't cause that person to break our laws or leave their own children in danger. That is as low as you can get. All for what? To take jobs or entire industries and drive the wages substandard. Is their home country so bad? Why isn't the entire populace crossing our border? Why, its because these lawless child abusers were losers in their home country. A country that doesn't have the multitude of safety nets we have.
We have our own pond scum. The ones spending an existence on disability or welfare. Do we need more of the same? Does anyone think they won't assert their 'rights' if made legal? What?, work in the fields? No way, that work is for illegals. Besides, the employer just fired them all for demanding a raise. I'm entitled now! Those rumblings are already present. Don't we already here demands for rights that don't exist, la raza parades. What will happen when they do?
It isn't about how much someone pays in taxes. Its knowing they will fill out their return with some level of honesty. If every action for years has been based on lies and deception how can anyone expect a sudden change?
I would disagree. Click it or Get a Ticket, Don't Mess with Texas, court ordered alcohol or drug addiction programs, court ordered community service, probation, and other programs, do encourage lawbreakers to walk straight. some do and some repeat the offense or worse. It just depends on the individual.
As far as disability and welfare goes, you do not know what the frak you are talking about. I have a friend who is a former Navy SEAL who is on total disability. Oh and the disability is not service connected. Or how about End Stage Renal Failure. Or how about vision impaired individuals or audible impairment? Or how about degenerative back disorder?
For most legal residents, even green card holder, welfare and government worker disability are not available now or have been since 1997. There are exceptions, very few exceptions for legal immigrant to utilize if circumstances would make them eligible. And we are not even talking about private disability insurance. But the main problem with welfare laws is that it is all or nothing. I do want those unable to work to be provided for first by family, then by NGO, and finally government, but most families, even middle class, cannot afford to take care of their relative for one reason or another.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hudson,
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by 4now: They should be given the boot because they are not supposed to be here. They rudely jumped the line. Illegals cannot in anyway compare to natural born citizens, or legal immigrants, whether they work or dont work.
They should be given the boot because there are family members of those american citizens that wait in line legally to come. Why should these people that disregarded and disrespected the rules be rewarded by bypassing them???
No a fine willl not do. Go home and get in the back of the line. When your time comes up, then pay a fine and you can come back in. That is fair.
What is wrong with leaving them as is until the problems of america get sorted out?
Lets get back to the amnesty for americans agenda. student loans forgiven, mortgage relief, assisted educations. Forget about amnesty for illegals. Ignore them 4now. Concentrate on the Lpr and citizens .
Obama's plans, guess who will be the big beneficiaries in the child care programs.. you guessed it, it wont be americans.
@ DAV,BTW, you are big mccain supporter, do you have his plan for the amerian future for all to see and compare?
@RN..& DAV. Why is status quo unacceptable ? Do you have a problem with them staying status quo for the next 8 to 10 yrs? If so, why Without the illegal nonsense being added to the CIR, these reforms could be passed no problem. Give them Das boot off the bill.
Again, a new separate line is being created not a category of aliens jumping in front of everybody else.
And I don't think Davdah will vote for McCain, more likely Chuck Baldwin or maybe Bob Barr.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
In the spirit of this day, let's better set our disagreements aside. If just for the mean while. Enjoy, folks. I do.
___________________________________________________________________ "The letter of the law is a sword that killeth; its intent is a spirit that giveth life."
I CaNnOt aGrEe wItH ThOsE WhO RaNk mOdEsTy aMoNg tHe vIrTuEs. To tHe lOgIcIaN AlL ThInGs sHoUlD Be sEeN ExAcTlY As tHeY ArE, aNd tO UnDeReStImAtE OnE'S SeLf iS As mUcH A DePaRtUrE FrOm tRuTh aS To eXaGgErAtE OnE'S OwN PoWeRs.
Everything comes in circles ....... The old wheel turns, and the same spoke comes up. It's all been done before, and will be again.
Originally posted by davdah: RN, I have so much to say about this. But, I have things to do this evening. One thing I will comment on is this. Part of the supremecy has to do with taxation. That same tactict should and will be employed in upcoming state legislation.
The states have a right to collect their taxes just as Uncle Sam. If they are being cheated then they too can act accordingly. Which will be used to get around those that are using the constitution to subvert state rights.
The sad thing is it has nothing to do with something right. Its a perverted use of law to promote an ant-American agenda.
I think you are right. I propose the Texas Legislature impose a $500,000 fine to anyone from California that has obtained Texas residency or is in the process of obtaining Texas residency or has a domicile in Texas to ne paid forthwith. Failure to pay the fine will result in immediate foreclosure of all property, forfeiture of Texas residency, and a prison time of 20 years to be served in unit H of the Huntsville State Prison!
Now that explains why you were given the boot by the IRS. Texas welcomes people who contribute. People who employ, pay taxes, and help increase the overall lifestyle of the state.
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
Posts: 5792 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007
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