So 4now, your premise is not that illegals did not bring down the inocmes and standard of living?

If not, then why do you keep bringing in illegals as an example why incomes and employment are the key culprits.

Or let me guess, you prefer the MSRPII system over the JIT?

Or that Greenspan is the culprit behind this mess and increasing the money supply?

Or you want technology only to advance when it makes an absolute advantage?

Or that we should go back on the Gold Standard and not use the fiat anymore?

Oh, I know, we should place tariff barriers to portect those jobs and FTA with Columbia, Korea, Japan, or anyone else would jeopardize your, oh I mean, their livilhoods?

Your premise is still flawed 4now. And yets, I know where you are going.

I must add this. 4now, I 4 1 appreciate a dialog with someone who is not insulting or condescending. Although it seems we disagree on some points concerning the current economic conditons at least a reasonable conversation is possible without the BS distortions and half arsed agendas getting in the way. These two clowns are so full of themselves its nearly comical to see the off topic responses to someting so trite. They realy need to get some action. Or a hobby or something to give them a sense of worth.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
Hudson, maybe where you work at everyone keeps to their own little world but in mine I make it a point to keep tabs on what my people are up to. In a business the underlings typically look to the more seasoned people for advice in life. At least in a normal work place. Obvioulsy you dont see the connection between what they drive and any reason to question how. If you drove into work in a phantom do you think your bosses would be silent? You concentrate. LOL. Maybe when you are the boss you will understand. Until then assume its above your gs rating. Your obviously not ready for that kind of responsibility.

Davdah,
Actually, my work keeps tab while on the job. For instance, keeping tabs with my office w-mail account, how often I log in to various subscribed sites, and when and who we meet with. However, personal info, including medical info, is off limits. There is a trust in my workplace between management and regular employees, even the clerical staff.

Legally, I will offer you this, what type of car they drive is not congruent to the work your employees do in the industry you are in. You can get into serious, very serious, legal trouble if your employees find out you are accessing credit, health, or personal information. In other works, if you do not trust your employees going into peoples homes, then that employee should not be working for you. It is that simple Davdah.

I hear you Dav

I think you have very good posture.

In order 4 us to succeed, it has to be 1 4 all and all 4 1. This is how it must be.

lol which one of the amnesty for american proposals do you disagree with. I say yes to everyone of them and I am throwing in limited free college education into the mix for those that qualify. Free education for those with majors in science, math and technical fields first. INVEST in AMERICA.

right now I have to go back to your good friend Iperson post and read Obama's proposals. Have to keep an open mind you know. Stay tuned

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
I must add this. 4now, I 4 1 appreciate a dialog with someone who is not insulting or condescending. Although it seems we disagree on some points concerning the current economic conditons at least a reasonable conversation is possible without the BS distortions and half arsed agendas getting in the way. These two clowns are so full of themselves its nearly comical to see the off topic responses to someting so trite. They realy need to get some action. Or a hobby or something to give them a sense of worth.

Well, Gen Clark's comments were completely out of line. I did send a e-mail message to Gen Clark's web site, WESPac. "I guess we should count our lucky stars that the Chinese government was so kind in only wanting moeney and not goint to war after we, I mean you, bombed their embassy in 1999?"

I still got no resopnse yet from Monday's e-mail.

quote:

As for amnesty for illegals, any bill that grants amensty will not provide 100^ relief. or that is all illegals will become legal. However, if we provide the correct criteria to situations somewhat narowly defined, we can weed out the chaffs while keeping the fruitful wheat, so to speak. For instance, allowing children of illegal parents, not burn in the US, to remain and go to school as residents of the state they live can be one such example.

With due respect Hudson,

How many more times do we need to be compassionate with them.Isn't this an invitation
that it is ok to break our borders law? Is EWI
fair and just?

Was it the government fault that they brought
and gave birth to their children here? and it's
America's responsibility to put them to school.

What about those parents who applied legally
and their children are far away from them and still waiting in line? These parents are dying to be with their children and they respected the law.

Please enlightened me , I really don't get it.
which side is CIR for. It says they gonna clear up the backlog in 8 years. And those who are here will get a temporary visa until they meet
the criteria!

Wow, those who did it legally they're looking for 8 years.

quote:

The point on 401-k loans should have included the reasons why there are penalties. Its to keep people from being stupid and spending their own life savings ahead of time

Dav,

I still don't think its fair.
If you can pay them back the way you borrowed
them, why pay the penalty.This are your own money.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
... These two clowns are so full of themselves its nearly comical to see the off topic responses to someting so trite. They realy need to get some action. Or a hobby or something to give them a sense of worth.

Hahaha! Once again, somebody is not practicing what he preaches. I thought you've got 'zero tolerance' on attacks? Whose browser is on ILW.COM 24/7, yours or mine? Get some action or a hobby, buddy.

Olala, Fair or not its to keep people from making huge mistakes. When you are young its much easier to weather a financial storm. When you are 70 and broke, now what?


CIR, the great buzzword for those that want to make all illegals legal. That will cure everything, or so they say. Here is one example of why it will create a gigantic mess.

If an illegal is here he is probably working for substandard wages. Guess what happens when he is legal? His employer hired him because he was illegal and would accept a lower wage. Now legal he demands a normal wage. The employer says, 'Your Fired' and waits for the next batch of illegals to sneak across. Now the legal illegal is unemployed. But he does qualify for welfare and so forth. This is what happened after the first amnesty back in the 80's.

quote:

Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
... These two clowns are so full of themselves its nearly comical to see the off topic responses to someting so trite. They realy need to get some action. Or a hobby or something to give them a sense of worth.

Hahaha! Once again, somebody is not practicing what he preaches. I thought you've got 'zero tolerance' on attacks? Whose browser is on ILW.COM 24/7, yours or mine? Get some action or a hobby, buddy.

Was I speaking to you directly? No, go away.

quote:

Originally posted by 4now:
...

help us help us.

Speak out people.. Write your congressman and tell them that you want them to lobby to stop making unemployment taxed. It didnt use to be taxed, so untax it. Why oh Why when a man is down on his luck would you impose a tax on what should be considered an insurance payment. fight back people.. you have a voice , so let it be heard.

Tell your congressman to speak for you.... get rid of this bull cr ap about the child tax credit only being until kid is 16 years old. tell them to increase this to under 19. Stop taking this and say you are not going to stand for this anymore!

I didnt see McCain or Obama embrace these issues to be changed. they are obvious means to get money back into taxpayers hands.

Amnesty for Americans.. Give an American free education and watch what a difference it will make. Fund America, You will see the difference it will make.



Help us Help us.
Take the Illegals out of the CIR and let progess for legal immigrants take place. Illegals should not be in the proposal for immigration reform. There is no bill for Illegal reform. The illegals are main reason why the bill has not passed for the reforms to the system. They should not be a part of the proposals. There would not be a problem fixing some wait times and quirks in the system that need to be passed. They just have to take the illegal proposals out. No problem and voila we have some changes. make a seperate proposal about illegals and what they want done with them. It is so easy, yet they wont do it

No Rewards for Illegals, period.

Fret not, because HELP and HOPE are on the way. And people have already SPOKEN out. So loudly in fact and in truth. A very clear writing is on the wall. That the days ahead would sideline the politics of old, the hate, the blame, the animosities, and the light of reason and logic would reign. First the Congress and Senate, and next the presidency!

Not REWARD but REFORM that's long overdue would be on the table and would overwhelmingly succeed, period!

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:

quote:

Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
... These two clowns are so full of themselves its nearly comical to see the off topic responses to someting so trite. They realy need to get some action. Or a hobby or something to give them a sense of worth.

Hahaha! Once again, somebody is not practicing what he preaches. I thought you've got 'zero tolerance' on attacks? Whose browser is on ILW.COM 24/7, yours or mine? Get some action or a hobby, buddy.

Was I speaking to you directly? No, go away.

No you didn't! Which... err... I found so effeminate. Oops! I go away? Aw really? Only the ilw.com people can say that, don't you think? You and I are both at liberty to stay here as long as no terms are violated, right?

Can't you find someone else to stalk? This is getting tiresome. Perhaps it is you who has a problem with their own gender.

Now it's the old tiresome 'stalking' defense! It was used before by someone else, but failed. Ok, I'll get back to work and would close ilw.com on my browser. Hope to see you around when I get back later ha?

I don't expect otherwise.

quote:

If an illegal is here he is probably working for substandard wages. Guess what happens when he is legal? His employer hired him because he was illegal and would accept a lower wage. Now legal he demands a normal wage. The employer says, 'Your Fired' and waits for the next batch of illegals to sneak across. Now the legal illegal is unemployed. But he does qualify for welfare and so forth. This is what happened after the first amnesty back in the 80's.

In a way 4Now is right, Employment is the enemy.

In an indirect way its tied to it. This happens to tie into a hot topic here. Several believe we should legalize all the of the illegals. I and several others think otherwise. And on goes the debate.

The real problem is insuring the person working is authorized to work. The I-9 was tried and failed due to the employer not being honest. I propose we take the element of honesty out. Require a method where the employer can not hire an illegal at all. This would cause a self deportation since there won't be any work to be had. Which, contrary to some opinions, is the number one reason for jumping our border.

In less than an hour you and others will see a blather of opinions calling this silly, wreckless, and impossible.

I don't think so. America first, period.

quote:

Originally posted by olalala:
With due respect Hudson,

How many more times do we need to be compassionate with them.Isn't this an invitation
that it is ok to break our borders law? Is EWI
fair and just?

Was it the government fault that they brought
and gave birth to their children here? and it's
America's responsibility to put them to school.

What about those parents who applied legally
and their children are far away from them and still waiting in line? These parents are dying to be with their children and they respected the law.

Please enlightened me , I really don't get it.
which side is CIR for. It says they gonna clear up the backlog in 8 years. And those who are here will get a temporary visa until they meet
the criteria!

Wow, those who did it legally they're looking for 8 years.

CIR is actually for both legal and illegal aliens. In some respects, legal and illegal aliens face difficult and unforgiving laws that offer no viable middle ground on many mistakes that most legal aliens make. However, illegal aliens, that is, EWI, offer a new set of challenges balancing the legal immigrant process and those caught in the circumstances they are in.

Now, here is what we are not talking about. We are not talking about legal or illegal aliens, not to mention USC, who commit violent felony offenses or other major heinous crimes.

Thus, any CIR immigration package has to separate the issues that legal aliens face and the issues or circumstances that illegal aliens face. I do prefer to start with legal aliens first to severely reduce the time limits for both employment and family immigrant visas. For instance, I do like the SKIL Act that would allow students who complete post secondary educational requirements not to be counted toward the H1b visa gap. This would be part of the Legal CIR. The best minds from around the world come here to study and in America's best interest, as well as their own, remain here with as little hassle to enter the work force more permanently. Other reforms would be to increase the quotas for family based immigration. Background checks woule remain and no new forms or increased processing fees would occur. But the increase in quotas for family based immigrant visas would be reduced in half, perhaps more. These are only two propsals that I have liked and there are others.

As for the illegal aliens, it is more on circumstances not of their choosing. Again, illegal aliens who are not USC, but parents are also illegal would have the ability to become, under a special category and eligible for instate tuition, etc. Anyone associated with gang membership, verified by police records, would be disqualified in most circumstances. If one was associated but turned state's evidence, they may be able to qualify for the new category. Part of the guest owrker program would also allow illegal aliens to become legal. The program would be similar to either Sen Hutchinson of Texas or Sen McCain of Arizona, with some exceptions.

The 1986 IRCA was a bandaid to the problem of the 1980's, not a solution. The CIR for legal and illegal immigrants would be similar to the 1954 Immigration and Naturalization Act, ie a complete overhaul of the system from top to bottom. Remember, this is what Reagan signed, the Great conservative that all Republicans want to emulate.

In the end, for both legal and illega aliens, one is not encouraging to break any laws, but one is responding to how broken the system is. The US has increased border patrol agents from 1997 to 2005 and every year, illegal entry has increased, according to USCIS statistics. And now it has plateaued. What we need here is balnace in the law in order to administer the law as equitable as possible. It would be ludicious to suggest to give someone the death penalty for being convicted of a minor traffic incident with no fatalities, would it? Or give someone a life sentence because he sold someone who used a lethal weapon to commit a homicide? or giving someone the traffic ticket who sold a radar/laser detector that allows someone to avoid the police officer patrolling our nation's highways? IS the law fair or equitable in the examples I gave. NO>. So why do most people only see the only option for illegals is deportation without regard to facts and circumstances.

I wanted to explain what I thin CIR is. It is for both legal and illega alins, but more importantly, it is also for the United States economic future. What does it say to others when a nation founded on the ideals of what you make of yourself is more important than who your parents or forefathers were happens to create caste system based demonizing someone of the immigration status or lack thereof. It is not beholden to the US constitution or to what the Founding Fathers wanted to see in this nation. If loyalists and rebels can heal thir differences in 8 years of sweat, blood, heartache, and sorrow, is it not impossible to look beyond the immigrant status of someone giving them the same opportunities as my ancestors had?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hudson,