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quote: Originally posted by olalala: quote: Olalala,
Please forgive us for thinking you were Iperson. It was your support for Obama that made it appear you were her alias - lol. She was a Hillary advocate until her campaign started going south then switched to Obama.
Anyway, I never properly welcomed you to the forum, so Welcome to ILW. I hope you will stick around.
God Bless America and everyone else!
That's ok Proud and Thanks. can't blame you, she's really rude! I think IP needs a new underwear!
lol, Olalala (oh my goodness, we need a new screen name for you - very hard to type). In any case, welcome to the asylum - lol!!!! Ignore the haters and embrace all others!  |
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quote: Not all this mortgage crisis is about debt responsiblity. have you forgotten?
Those people in Detroit and other steel cities that had good jobs when their homes were purchased. The growing trend that started even back then was to move those industries to Japanese steel companies etc.
Employment was and is the enemy here. not personal responsibility for overspending.
America has and is becoming a service industry nation sadly. If you lose a job that was paying $25 hr and the only thing now available is $10 to $12 an hour... there is no way to survive to make the demands of the mortgage that one had. couple that up with gas prices being on unemployment until you find that service job. This is the reality. What is wrong with a special program to help this situation??? The USA sends out big bucks to countries all around the world. many of those countries that receive financial help goes right into the pockets of corrupt officials and never helps the cause that it was sent for. (mexico, columbia just to name a few.) It is a crisis point in america right now. Americans need help. They are watching their american dream go up in smoke.
Is it fair to make illegals legal, who will then be eligible to use the 1st time homebuyer program and get a new home while an american (who never got to use that program) has lost his home? This is B.S. at best. And this is McCain's priority??? He needs to get a grip!!
The reforms that Obama and McCain need to deal with on immigration are those that concern legal residents relief involving family wait times and marriages, and other quirks within the immi system. Nothing regarding illegals should enter into these reforms as of yet. That issue should be addressed seperately and ONLY after other major important problems in this country are solved for americans in their econonmic struggles.
After all, illegals working for pennies drove down the wage in the first place. Construction jobs and landscape now pay a mere $7-$15 range instead of the $15-$35 hour range that it should. Or the restaurant dishwashing that americans used to hold. illegals have moved into all markets these days and will continue becuase all that is going to be left in america will be service jobs. Take a good look at Detroit people... this could be coming soon to your town.
Wake up people.. start the movement to take back what is being taken from you and given to others NOW
Iperson. 4now has always been 4now, no multiple Id. Stop with your lies or attempt to discredit me. Have a good trip but I am sure you are coming back.. afterall, citizenship is right around the corner.
quote: Not all this mortgage crisis is about debt responsiblity. have you forgotten?
Those people in Detroit and other steel cities that had good jobs when their homes were purchased. The growing trend that started even back then was to move those industries to Japanese steel companies etc.
Employment was and is the enemy here. not personal responsibility for overspending.
America has and is becoming a service industry nation sadly. If you lose a job that was paying $25 hr and the only thing now available is $10 to $12 an hour... there is no way to survive to make the demands of the mortgage that one had. couple that up with gas prices being on unemployment until you find that service job. This is the reality. What is wrong with a special program to help this situation??? The USA sends out big bucks to countries all around the world. many of those countries that receive financial help goes right into the pockets of corrupt officials and never helps the cause that it was sent for. (mexico, columbia just to name a few.) It is a crisis point in america right now. Americans need help. They are watching their american dream go up in smoke.
Is it fair to make illegals legal, who will then be eligible to use the 1st time homebuyer program and get a new home while an american (who never got to use that program) has lost his home? This is B.S. at best. And this is McCain's priority??? He needs to get a grip!!
The reforms that Obama and McCain need to deal with on immigration are those that concern legal residents relief involving family wait times and marriages, and other quirks within the immi system. Nothing regarding illegals should enter into these reforms as of yet. That issue should be addressed seperately and ONLY after other major important problems in this country are solved for americans in their econonmic struggles.
After all, illegals working for pennies drove down the wage in the first place. Construction jobs and landscape now pay a mere $7-$15 range instead of the $15-$35 hour range that it should. Or the restaurant dishwashing that americans used to hold. illegals have moved into all markets these days and will continue becuase all that is going to be left in america will be service jobs. Take a good look at Detroit people... this could be coming soon to your town.
Wake up people.. start the movement to take back what is being taken from you and given to others NOW
Thank you 4Now for sharing this! The employment has gone far worst maybe some are not affected yet, they will be soon. They will feel as angry as the rest of us. When you're looking at your child being afraid one morning your house will be gone. It is BS to work 2 to 3 jobs and you barely make it. Something is really wrong! Why can't Americans deserve a special mortgage program? Or why can't American children get an affordable college plans? You're right this country become a charity institution, not to be rude but haven't we given enough? It's about time that the government take care of its own people. Since it's the people who takes care of this government! This is why Obama got famous!!! He spit out what the Angry Americans wanted to hear "CHANGE". Proven or not, most will take the risk! |
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quote: Originally posted by davdah:
Olala. I want to point out one thing based on your comments above. You cited the example of borrowing against your 401. You say its wrong to make it difficult to borrow your own money. On the surface this sounds like a valid point.
Lets explore this. What is the purpose of a 401K? Its for your retirement. The idea being when you are old you will be taken care of with this and what ever else you have. While in your working years it is far easier to assist yourself than later on.
The Gov is making it difficult to take that money early to prevent people from being fiscally irresponsible.
Point is we actually take care of ourselves we save for our own future it is being deducted on every paychecks. We pay the State, SS, and the Fed. And the gov. capitalize on our money on other business and God knows what else. We borrow our own money , we get charge more to pay it back. We pay for every service the gov. is giving us! and I don't think that is irresponsible. |
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quote: Originally posted by olalala:
Try using your insurance WUSC, you'll end up
being charge still by the Hospital with this and that!
Don't we pay this every month deducted on our paychecks?
Aren't we being responsible in paying our taxes?
Try this too, borrow some money on your 401K,
see how much they charge you to pay for your own money!
and they tell American people who's suffering
that its they're fault and they're stupid?
I am not talking about the copay here, but the main reason why there is a difference between what you are charged and what the insurance company pays has to do with actuarial programs on "plan allowance." In most circumstances, the medical practitioner, is the hospital, doctor's office, or other medical provider, does nto charge according to the plan, but thir cost on their own actuarial programs. In some instances, the insurance provider is wrong. But the problem I have found is that most people do not know how to buy insurance, especially health insurance. Someone who is 20, fit, and with a good starting income will not think about insurance until one breaks a leg, has a hernia, or some other ailment. When that happens, your premiums are generally higher and pay more out of pocket expenses. But if they had an insurance plan before it all happened, in the long run, their payments would be much lower in their lifetime. Not all 401ks have that option to borrow and sometimes the borrowed money can count as income. If you are under 59 1/2, then you have an additional penalty. It is all there in your plan brochure. And BTW, if you do borrow, no credit checks, generally a lower interest rate a bank charges, and maybe a small transaction fee. Compare that with a bank who will run a credit report, interest rate may be higher depending on how long the loan repayment is, why you are borrowing the money, and whether collateral is being offered, amoung other things. Since 1997, the debt to income ratio has been rising. A majority of people spend more than their income. Eventually, this will come crashing down. Now, here is an interesting factoid, the US has the lowest savings rate, including investing in the various retirmment plans, than any other industrialized nation. Japan has the top honor with an average of 20% annualized savings rate. We just like to spend and borrow.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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Power Member
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Hey Hudson |
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There are some flaws in this theory. I'll avoid getting into the debate concerning the dynamics of how illegals have artificially lowered the living standard. To which I agree 100%. Employment is not the enemy. Those jobs lost were not created by the government. Some were lost due to the nature of our economy and free trade practices. It isn't Japan anymore, its China now. Since a manufacturer or most any business has the option of where to buy its material to make what it makes it stands to reason they will buy at the best price. Same as any consumer. A business is not much different. That extends to labor which is often the highest cost in a business. In the pre-internet world an American based business was restricted to Americans or at least people within our borders to draw from for its labor. Now, that has changed. Add to that the decline of heavy industry and it is compounded. From customer service to computer science the options to outsource over seas are numerous. And many companies do. 20 years ago if you called your bank you were assured of getting someone who spoke clear concise English. Now, you assume they won't. The big iron and steel companies that used to dominate the east coast are all but gone. Much of that had to do with over regulation and unions that the rest of the world was not subject to. It is simply a matter of cost. If you need steel to make something will you pay $20.00 a pound to US Steel or $5.00 a pound to China Steel? We can't force an employer to stay open and provide jobs to make something that no one wants to buy at the price necessary to keep the doors open. Can anyone honestly say they didn't see this coming? This isn't new. It started back in the 1970s. I was a teen ager and I saw the writing on the wall. I wasn't about to try for a steel mill job knowing or at least suspecting what the future held. Bottom line is no one can really claim ignorance. Especially the people working in those industries affected by it. They must have noticed dwindling production, plant closings, and increased foreign products. They saw it and put blinders on. Instead of retooling their mind they put their head in the sand hoping it would go away. It didn't, and here we are. The individual is their own enemy. I agree concerning stopping foreign aid. We can't afford it anymore. We also need to take on the attitude of Americans first and to hell with everyone else. At least until we get our house in order.
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
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| Posts: 5743 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007 | |
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Hudson, you and I agree on the point concerning spending and saving. Its insane the lifestyles people are trying to maintain on the money they earn. I look at the cars my employees drive. I would never get into that kind of debt being paid the money I pay them if it were me. The point on 401-k loans should have included the reasons why there are penalties. Its to keep people from being stupid and spending their own life savings ahead of time.
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
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| Posts: 5743 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by davdah:
Hudson, you and I agree on the point concerning spending and saving. Its insane the lifestyles people are trying to maintain on the money they earn. I look at the cars my employees drive. I would never get into that kind of debt being paid the money I pay them if it were me.
The point on 401-k loans should have included the reasons why there are penalties. Its to keep people from being stupid and spending their own life savings ahead of time.
If Your 401K Is Reinvested Back Into the Company You work For? "Which Many Are Deceived About" You Can Very Easily Lose Everything You Thought You Had!!! |
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quote: Originally posted by 4now: Thanks oollaa and mrs b for your support on amnesty for americans before amnesty for illegals. Davdah and Proud... Not all this mortgage crisis is about debt responsiblity. have you forgotten?  Those people in Detroit and other steel cities that had good jobs when their homes were purchased. The growing trend that started even back then was to move those industries to Japanese steel companies etc. Employment was and is the enemy here. not personal responsibility for overspending. America has and is becoming a service industry nation sadly. If you lose a job that was paying $25 hr and the only thing now available is $10 to $12 an hour... there is no way to survive to make the demands of the mortgage that one had. couple that up with gas prices being on unemployment until you find that service job. This is the reality. What is wrong with a special program to help this situation??? The USA sends out big bucks to countries all around the world. many of those countries that receive financial help goes right into the pockets of corrupt officials and never helps the cause that it was sent for. (mexico, columbia just to name a few.) It is a crisis point in america right now. Americans need help. They are watching their american dream go up in smoke. Is it fair to make illegals legal, who will then be eligible to use the 1st time homebuyer program and get a new home while an american (who never got to use that program) has lost his home? This is B.S. at best. And this is McCain's priority??? He needs to get a grip!! The reforms that Obama and McCain need to deal with on immigration are those that concern legal residents relief involving family wait times and marriages, and other quirks within the immi system. Nothing regarding illegals should enter into these reforms as of yet. That issue should be addressed seperately and ONLY after other major important problems in this country are solved for americans in their econonmic struggles. After all, illegals working for pennies drove down the wage in the first place. Construction jobs and landscape now pay a mere $7-$15 range instead of the $15-$35 hour range that it should. Or the restaurant dishwashing that americans used to hold. illegals have moved into all markets these days and will continue becuase all that is going to be left in america will be service jobs. Take a good look at Detroit people... this could be coming soon to your town. Wake up people.. start the movement to take back what is being taken from you and given to others NOW Iperson. 4now has always been 4now, no multiple Id. Stop with your lies or attempt to discredit me. Have a good trip but I am sure you are coming back.. afterall, citizenship is right around the corner.
Blaming illegals for the mortgage crisis is like blaming the Easter bunny for cavities. YOu are comparing apples and oranges when you compare the current mortgage crisis than the 1970's-1980's mortgage crisis in the Rust Belt. The current crisis id cause from a few greedy mortgage companies, lax regulatory oversight, and opulent customers keeping up with the Smith's. The restricting of credit has domino into the investment and business filed as well. Thus causing layoffs, lower groth expectations, and now inflation. We are hiving the reverese of what happened in 1982-1984 when Vockkers was Chairman of the Fed. As for the Rust Belt, economic forces, not illegal aliens, played an intengral roe in the mortgage collapse. Because steel workers had limited job skills, they could not adjust to the changing economic environment. Technology was the main culprit as well as changing economic trends. Manufacturing was becoming more efficient with less efficient industries and factories either becoming obsolete or redefined. We even see this in coputer programmers now becoming IT Tech support specialists. With increasing job skills, ie knowing multiple computer languages, has caused demand for programmers who meet the criteria while weeding out the less efficient ones. As for amnesty for illegals, any bill that grants amensty will not provide 100^ relief. or that is all illegals will become legal. However, if we provide the correct criteria to situations somewhat narowly defined, we can weed out the chaffs while keeping the fruitful wheat, so to speak. For instance, allowing children of illegal parents, not burn in the US, to remain and go to school as residents of the state they live can be one such example. Again, your apologies, although cute, is inherently flawed in both facts and premise.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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quote: Originally posted by ProudUSC: Hey Hudson
Hey Proud.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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quote: Originally posted by davdah:
Hudson, you and I agree on the point concerning spending and saving. Its insane the lifestyles people are trying to maintain on the money they earn. I look at the cars my employees drive. I would never get into that kind of debt being paid the money I pay them if it were me.
The point on 401-k loans should have included the reasons why there are penalties. Its to keep people from being stupid and spending their own life savings ahead of time.
First don't assume anything. Just because they are driving a nice car does not mean they purchased it through debt. Leasing is very popular for pople who have excellent credit but cash strapped. If one gets into the reasons for the early withdrawal penalty, then one must also go into the exceptions as well. The point was that if you borrow from a 401k account, you are borrowing your own money, nothing more.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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quote: Originally posted by Hudson: quote: Originally posted by ProudUSC: Hey Hudson
Hey Proud.
Oh, you saw my post - thought it got buried in there someplace! I hope you and your family are enjoing the summer, Hudson! I will have some awesome pictures to post after 7/4. |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by ProudUSC: quote: Originally posted by Hudson: quote: Originally posted by ProudUSC: Hey Hudson
Hey Proud.
Oh, you saw my post - thought it got buried in there someplace! I hope you and your family are enjoing the summer, Hudson! I will have some awesome pictures to post after 7/4.
Well, its mild here, mid 90's as a high. Looking forward to the traditional summer where one can expect 100 plus temps every day for 30 plus  days. Yippeeeee
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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quote: Originally posted by Hudson: quote: Originally posted by davdah:
Hudson, you and I agree on the point concerning spending and saving. Its insane the lifestyles people are trying to maintain on the money they earn. I look at the cars my employees drive. I would never get into that kind of debt being paid the money I pay them if it were me.
The point on 401-k loans should have included the reasons why there are penalties. Its to keep people from being stupid and spending their own life savings ahead of time.
First don't assume anything. Just because they are driving a nice car does not mean they purchased it through debt. Leasing is very popular for pople who have excellent credit but cash strapped. If one gets into the reasons for the early withdrawal penalty, then one must also go into the exceptions as well. The point was that if you borrow from a 401k account, you are borrowing your own money, nothing more.
I know they purchased it and got a nice big fat car loan to boot. Even after I told them how stupid it was. They asked me my opinion and I gave it to them. But like most 20 somethings they ask your opinion and proceed to ignore good advice. How many of those people who borrow against their 401 default against themselves? I bet the numbers are high.
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
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| Posts: 5743 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by 4now:
...
Employment was and is the enemy here. not personal responsibility for overspending.
America has and is becoming a service industry nation sadly. If you lose a job that was paying $25 hr and the only thing now available is $10 to $12 an hour... there is no way to survive to make the demands of the mortgage that one had. couple that up with gas prices being on unemployment until you find that service job. This is the reality. What is wrong with a special program to help this situation??? The USA sends out big bucks to countries all around the world. many of those countries that receive financial help goes right into the pockets of corrupt officials and never helps the cause that it was sent for. (mexico, columbia just to name a few.) It is a crisis point in america right now. Americans need help. They are watching their american dream go up in smoke.
And just like in times past, some people, or a certain group of people in particular, have got to get the blame. Anger management is highly recommended?
Is it fair to make illegals legal, who will then be eligible to use the 1st time homebuyer program and get a new home while an american (who never got to use that program) has lost his home? This is B.S. at best. And this is McCain's priority??? He needs to get a grip!!
Life in general isn't fair. Who said so? McCain getting a grip? Or you, of life's realities?
The reforms that Obama and McCain need to deal with on immigration are those that concern legal residents relief involving family wait times and marriages, and other quirks within the immi system.
The needed reform is COMPREHENSIVE that covers all aspects of the immigration mess. Patchwork undertakings have already been tried, and failed. It's now time to sit down, remove the hate, and deal with the whole issue guided by reason. That's what America is known for (... or used to be).
Nothing regarding illegals should enter into these reforms as of yet. That issue should be addressed seperately and ONLY after other major important problems in this country are solved for americans in their econonmic struggles.
Enough of this "what you and others like you 'say-so' approaches" in solving the current immigration problem. Tell-tale signs are there that a big thing, as far as immigration reform is concerned, in both houses of Congress, is bound to happen, and with an immigration-reform material for a future President, either one of them, to boot.
After all, illegals working for pennies drove down the wage in the first place. Construction jobs and landscape now pay a mere $7-$15 range instead of the $15-$35 hour range that it should. Or the restaurant dishwashing that americans used to hold.
'Should' is very much different from 'is' in real world. The question is genuine: 'who own the jobs' in the labor market, the workers or the employers? It all boils down to who should dictate the wages, the employers or the employees?
The government knows that it can do just as much to face this reality. Regulations are there establishing 'prevailing wages' for job hierarchies, but enforcing them are just up to the barest 'regulatory' minimum, or 'random sniping' onto erring employers just to 'send a message' to the business community that, hey, beware, big brother is watching.
Because government people know that ok, violators are there but, hey, not condoning illegality but they don't want to appear hurting the capitalistic free enterprise players at the same time.
That's human nature to desire to spend less and benefit more! Why are there 99cents stores? Why is there Rose? Why is there Walmart? Hint: to feed this human tendencies of going for anything cheap. The same thing is true in the case of hiring people.
Ok, we don't want businesses to hire cheap illegal workers, but we don't provide for them the available labor pool either. EB-3 (Other Workers/Unskilled) category has 5,000 allocation per year. H-2B seasonal workers classification has 66,000 per year.
The EB-3 is just being sparsely used due to the very long wait, so only mostly 245(i) beneficiaries are being covered. The H-2B has to be scrutinized closely. Bec
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