IP: READ THE THREAD TOPIC.

Actually, read the whole FORUM SUBJECT. It's an immigration discussion.

Sorry to put a damper on your Bush-bashing, but really.

Also the Bush impeachment plan will never get off the ground. Even if they get the 50% in the House (which means even a lot of Democrats would have to admit their own mistakes - which is not likely to happen), it would never get the 2/3 majority in the Senate.

But JermCool, I thought this was the weather channel? I think she went for a ride on one those trees she was hugging during the tornado.

quote:

Of that 5 million how many have stolen more than one ID? I would think after a while they get too hot to handle and drop it like yesterdays diaper and get a new one. You said yourself they may have to change IDs. Question is, how often? Lets say its only once, to be nice. So now we're back up to 10 million Americans getting screwed.

Congratulations Davdah, you just failed remedial statistics 001.

Your premise is that illegals who are employed use fake SSN. Correct. So, we must eliminate those illegals that have either no need nor want to obtain an SSN. Thus we eliminate those who do not work because they are children or stay at home spouses, those who work for cash since no TIN is needed or required, and those who have an ITIN because of self employment reasons. So, that leaves 5 million by your estimates.

Now, here is the interesting part. How many have committed multiple ID theft. In statistics, the more who commit multiple acts only add to the total number of ID theft crimes being committed not the number of illegals who commit the crime. If we presume that one for one comparison for illegal alien to committing ID theft in the work place, then the max number is still 5 million. Now, compare that 5 million to the number of ID thefts being committed. This is where I sued 30$ of all households. That is 30 million where at least one individual in the household was a victim of ID theft. Now, how many were committed for employment reasons? Well, lets say 40%, JC's figure. That would bring the total number of ID theft cases from 30 million to 12 million. now 5 million out of 12 million is a significant number Davdah. Remember, we are making a simple, but unverifiable, assumption of one to one illegal alien to ID theft comparison. A simple, but unrealistic assumption because of the other factors we are not talking about. 5 out of 30 million is not. Both are correct, yet both are incorrect because of the simple assumptions we are making.

What you did Davdah was count the 5 million twice in your analysis and that is a fatal statistical flaw. Of course, we are not even dealing with USC or LPR who commit ID theft for employment or other purposes.

Ha ha, I know some of you would love for me to get swept with that tornado while hugging the uprooted trees. You could then carry on with your thuggish ways without interruptions.

But here's some news for Jasmin addicted to Faux News:

GALLUP: Women Moving FAST To Obama

Some good news from Gallup this morning: women are moving towards Obama in fairly dramatic numbers. Before I continue, one caveat - this is all good news, but please don't let poll numbers foster complacency. This campaign is going to take work and money and nothing can be taken for granted. A lot can happen in the next 5 months. Now, on with the analysis:

Since Hillary Clinton decided to concede the Democratic nomination to Barack Obama last week, Obama has established a lead over Republican John McCain in general-election polling. Obama's gains have come more from women than men, though he has picked up among both groups in recent days.
Obama's lead among women has now expanded from five percentage points to 13, while his deficit among men has shrunk from six points to two.

What's the cause of this shift? Clinton's exit of course:

While campaigning for president, Clinton demonstrated an especially strong appeal to women. She led McCain by 52% to 40% in her final full week as a candidate, exactly equal to the average since mid-March. By comparison, Obama held only an average 47% to 42% lead over McCain among women during the same time span. At least for now, he seems to be matching Clinton's performance among women versus McCain, given his current 13-point lead among female voters.

For all the hand-wringing amongst pundits about the angry, bitter feelings so many women feel about Clinton - the truth is women in this country are a lot more intelligent than these pundits are giving them credit for. They know what's at stake in this election. Once they learn the truth about McCain's record on women's issues, particularly abortion rights, their support for Obama will firm up even more.

More good news comes from another key Clinton constituency group: older women.

One of Clinton's core groups of supporters during the nomination phase of the campaign was older women. During the last few days of her active candidacy, Clinton led McCain by 51% to 41% among women aged 50 and older, while Obama trailed McCain among this group, 46% to 43%.

Since Clinton suspended her campaign, older women's vote preferences have shifted toward Obama, so that he now enjoys a six-point advantage over McCain.

there's more- with poll numbers

Aside, after HRC conceded, out of the 18 million supporters only 22% said they'd vote for McCain- which is mere 2 million of voters, who quite surely are repubs who voted for Bush anyway, so they are not lifetime Democrats.
Compare the 2 million traitors to 16 million who will vote Obama, Jasmin is in a tiny minority.

Ok, and what D. Morris says is the Bible, right?

Jasmin, you're a delusional nut. Probably very low to no education, low understanding of politics.
I am sorry you are a Faux News brainwashed watcher. Faux News should have their broadcast licence revoked for passing as an objective news media, which it isn't.
My only hope is that most women are smarter than that and see right thru the lies and propaganda.

quote:

And Obama has won the nomination by party insiders (superdelegates) and not by voters because most voters voted for Hillary and not for Obama.

Gosh, and here you are wrong. What about all the caucus states that didn't have primaries. Those don't count in the so called popular vote HRC tried to push. She succeeded with LIVs (low information voters) such as Jasmin, obviously. But it doesn't make it true.
There is a data out there that when you count the caucus states as if they were primaries, Obama actually comes out on top in the popular vote.
Another issue is the Soviet style primary in Michigan which HRC counted as if all the votes belonged to her, none to Obama.
Then yes, she had the popular vote, but it isn't real. Just a political gimmick.

I am truly amazed how Jasmin is able to sift thru information and retain only the parts that suit her wishes and pander to her racist hatred.
When she is presented with facts that point to the reality as it is, she doesnt respond or even read it.
Everyone knows the president lied about WMDs.
If we allow our presidents to lie, to shred the constitution, allow the government to eavesdrop, and to allow them to steal our taxpayer money to wage idealistic wars, be my guest. But the world hates the United States, and that hatred breeds more attacks on the country and makes us unsafe.

You may personally think whatever you want Jasmin. That doesn't change the reality.
You are very lucky that there are much smarter people than you are, and will carry you into a safer future despite your stupidity.

quote:

which should tell you that most women are not in ecstasy with the anticipation of having big "O"...in oval office...

Did you read the article I just posted?
GOLLUP says WOMEN ARE MOVING FAST TO OBAMA.

THESE ARE FACTS JASMIN.

You're among small tiny minority of disgruntled unhappy women who were damped by their men and nobody wants them.
Good luck with your life. You make me sad for you.

On a more serious note, well worth reading for any repub leaning person:

They're Scared

by Robert in WV
Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:40:28 PM EST

It kind of hit me at work the other day.

I think that republicans are afraid this time around. I have worked at the same place for a little over 10 years now, lived in the same community for more than 14 years, and gone to the same church for a little over 13 years. I am a bit settled in my ways.

I am also known as the local "crazy" liberal.


Funny, I never have thought of myself as crazy. I think I'm middle of the road, actually. But I guess we all think we're the middle.

Anyway...

During the 2000 and 2004 elections, the republicans in my workplace, church and community never bothered to really engage me in debate. Usually the conversations were more of a gloating on their part. I was ridiculed for backing Gore and Kerry. Both ran questionable campaigns, to be certain, but both were also obviously patriots and dedicated public servants.

But something is different this year. My republican and right-wing friends are actually trying to engage me in debate on issues. Not sure why, actually, but I have noticed that they always leave the debate at one point when they get stumped.

One friend said that he will vote for McCain simply because he feels that McCain will best protect his (my friend's) wallet. It's all about maximizing his own cash flow; the rest of the country be ****ed. I guess that this type of voter has always been around, but I've never really encountered one (or at least one who is so bold about his feelings). I think that he is afraid not only of an Obama presidency, but also of larger majorities in each house of congress.

I also have several pro-war friends. Again, none of these friends bothered me much in 2004. They knew I was against the war and simply ignored me for it. This time around, they're scared. They engage me in debate over the war and usually (and I'm being serious here, no hyperbole) they end up red-faced or with bulging veins in their foreheads as the debate progresses. I usually entertain their debates in a good natured manner. However, when I get tired of the same old talking points (Good Lord above, I still hear about WMD and that evil Saddam Hussein), I lean forward in my chair, look deeply into their eyes and ask simply what we're supposed to be "winning" over there. My pro-war friends are so afraid of "cut and run" or "losing" but have absolutely no idea of what they want to win. I mean there's not one of them that can vocalize a specific concrete goal that would mean that we've won. They just want to win. I once asked this friend if winning would mean wiping all Muslims out in Iraq and he verbally agreed before he thought about what he was saying. I think that deep down inside he really feels that way, and it saddens me.

One pro-war buddy was being stymied by me in our debate one day when the conpany controller walked in. My pro-war friend saw an ally (after all, aren't all upper management people always republicans?) and engaged the controller to talk some "sense" into me. Oops... The controller declared his support for Obama for no reason other than ending the war. I really think that McCain's 100-year war idea scared the controller straight. The controller explained that he saw nothing to win in Iraq and he was tired of spending our money needlessly over there. I wanted to engage the controller about wasting lives over there, but let is slide.

My pro-war buddy valiantly engaged the controller, but to no avail. Mr. pro-war stormed out of my office with a parting shot about the liberals just wanting to "lose" the war.

An interesting post-script to this debate is that one of the owners of the company found out about our discussion and decided to pin the controller down. The owner asks: "Why do you support Obama... one reason?" The controller responds "Because he will raise taxes on the rich." Owner walks away speechless. I only with I had been there to see it.

Just after the Edwards endorsement, my boss' boss pokes his head into my office and notices that I have printed a picture of Obama and Edwards from that day. Boss' boss starts foaming at the mouth (not literally, but close to it). He goes into a rant that was so incoherent I cannot really write anything about it here. What did strike me was that as he stormed out, he punched (literally) the picture of Obama and Edwards hanging on my office door and said that me and my "f***ing friends" were going to ruin this country. Our department secretary, who sits right ourside my office, heard it all. She waited untli boss' boss left and then suggested that I should use some Sharpies and draw black eyes on both Obama and Edwards and possibly add a bleeding lip. While I found the idea quite funny, I passed.

I guess that what I am saying is that the republicans in my little corner of the world are no longer dismissing us. They're frightened. That, ladies and gentlemen, should spur us on to dig in deeper. The fight's coming. We had better be ready. Someone said around these parts that Obama wants his campaign to behave as if it were always 10 points behind. We need to keep that in mind. Things may look promising now, but it's going to be a long five months.
--------------

Are you Scaarreeed?

link to original ending with a poll

HUDSON.

And you failed elementary reading comprehension.

Please re-read what I posted. I didn't say 10 mil illegals. I said 10 million crimes.


Ipersons Detroit

To Jasmin:
I was wondering and would like to ask you this question straight on:
Would you be glad/happy/satisfied if Obama was assassinated?

I was also wondering about your support for Clinton. You see, there is always a silver lining to every situation however bad it was.
I think that there's a great chance for Dem party to create a permanent majority in the shape that Karl Rove and the repub propaganda attempted to achieve (Faux News Channel, Rush Limbough, O'Reilly, CNN, Time, etc.)
I realized that many low information voters are not attached to the Rep. party by stitches, and they may swing once they get inspired by a candidate, as it happened in Hillary's case. There is a great chance that we can move women such as Jasmin, or PUSC away from the Rep. range of influence.
For PUSC I think it's too late since she came into this primary already brainwashed by the Rep. campaign against the Clintons. Realistically speaking, she has to admit to herself deep inside that there is basically nothing for her to abhor about HRC. She must realize she was brainwashed.
Those two women are classic examples of the so called, world famous American stupidity.
The whole world KNOWS the Bush administration is evil, and they hate America and Americans for their stupidity. The whole world knows and the whole world cheers for Obama. He raises America in the eyes of the world, and changes its image completely.
The only people who don't see what is really going on with this country are Americans.

Listen to us foreigners because we see you and this country from outside. We see clearly what is good for your country and for the world. It is like a choice between evil and good, death and life= those two choices- between McCain and Obama are stark and obvious.
Just open your eyes Americans.

About Davdah...
He is a classic example of one issue voter, and that is the wallet issue. His primary reason he is voting for any rep. candidate, however sleazy, deceitful and corrupt, is money- his own wallet.
He doesn't care about his own countrymen, the less privilaged, the disabled, the inner city black kids etc. etc. He will tell you how he gives to charities but you and I know it is b u l l. He will also lie and cheat himself, and use every means to achieve his ends.
He doesn't like people in general, in fact he hates other people. The only way he communicates with them are anonymous forums, more likely ones that satisfy his superiority complex which he feeds on.
He not only doesn't like other people, will use them to his own selfish ends, but he also doesn't like himself. He's a miserable lonely man who makes others as miserable.

Hudson is a similar personality but more deceitful because he's smarter than Davdah, but he is not smart either. I think he will vote for McCain because he may be conflicted inside between his selfishness and a desire for closeness. McCain is a conficted individual as well on many levels- but his evil side is always winning.
I presume Hudson has a controlling personality. It is a way for him to interact with the society by using control pressures and tactics. A reason why he chose to be married to a foreign, inferior in his mind woman.

There are no smart Republicans in my view. They are either selfish, and feeling superiority to other minorities, or they are plainly dumb (most Rep. women) who are largely subjugated by their controlling men.

You don't want to be a republican, and I hope that with Barack Obama, this will be the end of this corrupt party.

quote:

Originally posted by Jasmin:
It seems you MIGHT have hoped all along for President Bush to have died given all the derogatory words that you have used so far for him and his party, but we (Americans) are not like you who keeps a communist mentality. We respect other's opinions than telling someone of being racist/stupid/brain-washed/dead-brain person/no educated/etc just because our opinions are different than yours. We (again Americans) firmly believe in First Amendment of our Constitution for all people.

Let me remind you that Bush is a two terms US President. The whole country voted overwhemingly for him and his party during his second term election which was focused on War.

You better shut your filthy mouth before telling a US President as an evil and accusing him for hating this country and its people....Just stay out of our business (this country and its people's business) since you seem you are so intelligent and smart and we (Americans0 are so stupid which you said it...

You have no business to accuse our President particulary with all these derogatory names...We (Americans people) are divided on OPONIONS as democrats and Republicans but we are united as Americans...particularly from someone from other country...If you have your own opinions and disagree with anyone then say it without using derogatory names to US President...Stop spreading anti-American sentiments about our President and govt. while being on US soil...

You haven't answered my question Jasmin.
Would you be happy if Obama were assassinated?

Not only foreigners hate your president, 70% of this country does. Duh!

Europeans View America As A 'Force for Evil' Under Bush

(me included)

Last April, President Bush traveled to Europe to attend his final NATO summit. While there, he openly advocated that the alliance incorporate former Soviet republics Ukraine and George as full NATO members in an effort to “lay down a marker” for his “freedom agenda” legacy. However, NATO rebuffed, a “remarkable rejection of American policy in an alliance normally dominated by Washington.”

Next week, Bush is heading back. National Security adviser Stephen Hadley said Bush “will encourage Europe to work with the United States to confront a series of global challenges that face us both.” However, it is doubtful that Bush will encourage Europe to do much of anything as the continent’s view of the America’s role in the world has soured under Bush’s “leadership.”

Asking Europeans if “the United States is overall a force for good or force for evil in today’s world,” a recent Daily Telegraph poll found:

Anti-American sentiment still runs high [in Europe]. More people in France, Germany and Britain view the United States as a “force for evil” than good in the world, according to a poll last month for The Daily Telegraph newspaper of London.

Moreover, its unclear whether Bush’s European friends are even interested in hearing what he has to say, as many seem to believe his second term as president cannot end soon enough:

– William Keylor, professor of international relations at Boston University says “Europe is waiting for Bush’s successor because the president remains unpopular with much of the public.”

– “To say Europeans will welcome U.S. President George Bush on his farewell visit to Europe next week would invite a charge of verb-abuse. Welcome is hardly the word. But they will be glad to see the back of him.”

– “Many [European leaders] are looking forward now to the next president,” said Julianne Smith, Europe analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Indeed, the Telegraph poll also found that large majorities in Britain, France, Germany and Italy favor Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) over Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).

link

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
About Davdah...
He is a classic example of one issue voter, and that is the wallet issue. His primary reason he is voting for any rep. candidate, however sleazy, deceitful and corrupt, is money- his own wallet.
He doesn't care about his own countrymen, the less privilaged, the disabled, the inner city black kids etc. etc. He will tell you how he gives to charities but you and I know it is b u l l. He will also lie and cheat himself, and use every means to achieve his ends.
He doesn't like people in general, in fact he hates other people. The only way he communicates with them are anonymous forums, more likely ones that satisfy his superiority complex which he feeds on.
He not only doesn't like other people, will use them to his own selfish ends, but he also doesn't like himself. He's a miserable lonely man who makes others as miserable.

Hudson is a similar personality but more deceitful because he's smarter than Davdah, but he is not smart either. I think he will vote for McCain because he may be conflicted inside between his selfishness and a desire for closeness. McCain is a conficted individual as well on many levels- but his evil side is always winning.
I presume Hudson has a controlling personality. It is a way for him to interact with the society by using control pressures and tactics. A reason why he chose to be married to a foreign, inferior in his mind woman.

There are no smart Republicans in my view. They are either selfish, and feeling superiority to other minorities, or they are plainly dumb (most Rep. women) who are largely subjugated by their controlling men.

You don't want to be a republican, and I hope that with Barack Obama, this will be the end of this corrupt party.

I don't care about my own country yet I served in the military for six years. I'm greedy yet I receive the least benefit from the money I earn as compared to those I give it to. I feel superior yet I don't berate people unless attacked first. I don't care about black kids yet I don't call them 'N', like you.

Much of this can't be proven but I don't need to. As long as I know its true nothing more matters. You on the other hand possess a reputation that leaves little to question concerning your character.

This from Iperson's school of chaotic thinking.

Jasmin,
I don't hate Bush per se. I simply think he is a typical American dummy who got used by the corporatist-militarist machine. I don't blame him as much as I blame Rove & Cheney and their mindless pawns.
I really do hate Karl Rove and D. Cheney in every meaning of the word. I don't hate Bush. I hate his stupidity, as much as yours Jasmin. I don't have any hate feelings for you or anyone on this forum. I think you could open your eyes if you wanted.
I will not tolerate nor have patience for stupidity in this country in 21st century. There's no place for it, and I don't accept it. And I will use harshest words to fight it.

Bite me.