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Senior Member
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quote: I like Iperson, because she speaks her mind. She is very passionate and that is very respectable.
I don't. She's racist when it suits her own viewpoint. She's intolerant of any view other than her own. And her respectability flew right out the window the moment she called Mike_2007 a terrorist SOLELY because he's Jordanian.
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"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " - Thomas Jefferson
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| Posts: 775 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 05-16-2008 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by JermCool: quote: Originally posted by Hudson:
Jerm,
I agree that 36% is significant which ID theft is perpetrated for employment gains; however, your link fails to provide direct data linking ID theft squarely on illegal immigration. Yes, it uses an ad hominem argument stating that the states wit hthe highest illegal immigration also have the highest proliferation rates of ID theft. And this is what I am disagreeing with. From my professional experience, there are too many factors being discounted when dealing with ID theft and linking illegal immigration. For instance, mortgage fraud, credit card fraud, tax fraud, consumer fraud, and public information available through government agencies also contribute to ID theft which illegal immigrants may or may not be involved. But other groups such as gangs, criminal enterprises, unscrupulous individuals may be involved as well. And then you have to deal with the false reports of misuse ID theft.
That is why I would like to see more discussion on how to prevent ID theft than the unfounded allegations by placing undue fear as to who is allegedly responsible. For instance, I wold like to see some type of barrier around ATM machines so that individuals may not be able to steal the account numbers and/or name on the debit or credit card. Would like to see law enforcement personnel train human resource managers and employees in spotting fake or suspicious ID cards. Would like to have a national confidentiality law, if one does not already exist, on employees who hold or maintain confidential data with fines and/or prison time to any organization, business, individual, or other entity in the private sector and if such crime crosses state jurisdictions. I would also like to see a uniform code on a similar scale pass each state legislature. I do know that federal and state govenrment employees have such laws already in place.
I would love to find direct linking and proper statistics. It's not readily available online...yet. I'm sure that will be coming in due course as this problem continues to spread. But between AZ's 36% and the anecdotal evidence, it would wager that - federally - 15-20% of all ID theft is committed by illegal immigrants. I admit, this is speculation and I am not a statistician, but that seems to be a fair estimate. Granted, with the amount of ID theft growing, people should be more aware on how to keep their details safe to prevent things like this happening, but for those who have already had their details stolen, the damage has been done.
Jerm, you made a respectable position and I agree with what you posted.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by Kollerkrot:
Telling someone stupid, racist, dead brain person, trash and etc because his and her views are different than yours shows how some immigrants are bringing their rotten mentality to this country. In this country, we respect other people's right to express their views and choose a candidate. But if you cannot respect our consitution on this then you might consider leaving this country. After all this country is ours and not yours even if you say caring about it...
Now lookie here! That's what would be called pretty labsided. How is it that you want to be respected for your views, but you don't respect others' views. If Iperson thinks you did or said something stupid, that is still her view. Being the good American you are, you are going to respect it whether you like it or not - Period.
I like Iperson, because she speaks her mind. She is very passionate and that is very respectable.
No one is questioning her passion, just what and how she says things. And like anyone who is passionate about politics, she has, on more than one occasion, stuck her foot in her mouth. And when she comes in with a condescending tone, bashes a person's political or religious beliefs, and uses racial epitaphs to bait people into responding. This is not only childish and immature, but it also speaks volumes about a person's character, morals, and influence. I have given IP her space by not responding or debating with her, but she comes across with an attitude by calling people who disagree with her stupid, racist, trash, dead brain, etc. That is not a mark of a person from a civilized society, but one that is uncivilized, savage, intolerable, and ignorant. She has not only done this to me, but anyone and everyone who has disagreed with her.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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Power Member
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Kind of off topic I know but did anyone watch Jay Leno tonight? He had a game Jeopardy and had Bush, Clinton and Obama lookalikes on playing the game. It was hilarious LOL Some of the questions were: 'Foreclosure' = Bush answers, What comes before Threeclosure '1776' = Bush answers, How much gas will cost before my end of Presidency 'Lap Dance' = Clinton, What will I do to Obama if he let's me be work for him Obama answers = No, as I don't accept junk in that trunk. 'B-52' = Obama answers What McCain would rather be. 'Tourism' = Bush answers... Why are we at war. (Leno says no Mr President that is Terrorism, Bush answers no I know what I mean). Very funny..wish I remembered all of them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too  Mr S.U. |
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Power Member
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Kollerkrot, if koller means something derogatory I apologize. I only wrote it for sake of brevity. The truth is religion doesn't have that great affect aside some moral based issues. Abortion is one that comes to mind. Not to start down that path but as an example its a good one. Funny you should mention Lutheran. That happens to be the church I currently attend. Was raised Catholic. Spent a few years in various protestant churches. I can't say any of them had that great an influence to control or sway my already set ways. I think you're trying to connect dots from two different circles. Not many people equate their religious beliefs to the reason for hard work. It's just greed. I want a nicer car, bigger house, hotter wife, or what ever. The old adage of hard work had more to do with the then dominant industries. Years back it was primarily heavy manual labor. Nothing like today where the heaviest thing you might lift is a cell phone. Many foreigners think we are lazy. How can we be lazy and hard workers at the same time?
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
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| Posts: 5791 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by Hudson:
Anyone on welfare, anyone who would love your perfect credit score, anyone who may want to take revenge, just to name a few. Anyone one can be a victim of ID theft and anyone can perpetrate the crime as well. The choice to commit the crime goes beyond immigration status you are in or lack thereof.
The misconception that I see here is that you only think two dimensionally; that eliminating one group, whatever group that is, would significantly decrease ID theft.
Once again, nobody has said that illegals are the only ones to commit identity theft. You and I both know that exact statistics on this crime aren't available. Most of that is because much of it goes unreported. On top of that, the latest trend is to steal the identity of a child in order for the crime to go undetected for longer. Either way, you have said yourself that illegals are among those that commit this crime. So what is your point exactly? It's starting to look to me like you're simply saying that because they're not the only ones to do it, nobody has the right to say that any of them do it.
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The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch
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| Posts: 1222 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 07-29-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by Aroha:
Once again, nobody has said that illegals are the only ones to commit identity theft.
You and I both know that exact statistics on this crime aren't available. Most of that is because much of it goes unreported. On top of that, the latest trend is to steal the identity of a child in order for the crime to go undetected for longer.
Either way, you have said yourself that illegals are among those that commit this crime. So what is your point exactly? It's starting to look to me like you're simply saying that because they're not the only ones to do it, nobody has the right to say that any of them do it.
Aroha, Would you say it is logical or illogical to accuse a group of people of committing a type of crime without full knowledge how that crime is being perpetrated? Again, my point is you need to be careful when describing who or what is committing a crime unless you have exact data. The main reaosn why you cannot link Illegal immigrants is that the DOJ does not place immigration status as part of the criminal profile. And until the academia gains a more appropriate knowledge, speculating is generally a bad idea. This has nothing to do with free speech unless you want to take the consequences for your own words Aroha.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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Power Member
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The opinion of Honorable Wise Old E. In the matter of Aroha vs Hudson Stereotypes/profiles are used on daily basis by all and it's nothing but survival mechanism as illustrated by behaviors of all creatures in Nature (for reference search "Discovery" and "Planet Earth" on youtube.com). To lament it is to lament the flow of the river under the force of gravity. The law in the books (guiding principle) says that profiling/stereotyping is against it (with certain exceptions under certain circumstances), nor is it a manifestation of highest moral standard to stereotype, but can law guide or force one's perception? Obviously it can't, people are people and will always be so and do as they do. So, what does this argument boil down to? Whether you can use profiling to target a whole group for activity shared by some in it? By strictest application of law you can't, nor thou shalt if strictest moral standard is applied but in fact you may and it's not unlikely that you routinely will throughout the course of your life, no matter what your occupation or life circumstances are. The law (fear of punishment) and moral principles (ones' consciousness) are merely balancing against those natural tendencies to prevent extremes. With this I conclude my written opinion. Parties are dismissed. E.  P.S. You can appeal my opinion in writing on the pages of this thread within the next few days. Otherwise this opinion stands as final.
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It is not necessary for the public to know whether I am joking or whether I am serious, just as it is not necessary for me to know it myself.
Salvador Dali
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Power Member
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Hudson there is one overriding element here. When a USC does it, its done out of simple want. When an illegal does it, its out of need. The Gov has cracked down enough so that just making up a number will no longer do. They need a SSN that actually exists. The numbers may be difficult to quantify based on an absense of public data. However, the presumption of obviouse necesssity and the numbers present indicate a wide spread abuse. In other words the situation must exist if they are still here, still working.
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
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| Posts: 5791 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by Hudson:
Aroha,
Would you say it is logical or illogical to accuse a group of people of committing a type of crime without full knowledge how that crime is being perpetrated?
Again, my point is you need to be careful when describing who or what is committing a crime unless you have exact data. The main reaosn why you cannot link Illegal immigrants is that the DOJ does not place immigration status as part of the criminal profile. And until the academia gains a more appropriate knowledge, speculating is generally a bad idea. This has nothing to do with free speech unless you want to take the consequences for your own words Aroha.
That would be all well and good, Hudson, assuming my own words were the same as the ones that you've been seeing. Either your reading comprehension needs work or you're too bloody-minded to understand that. Whichever it is, I'm very tired of having to repeat myself, so I suggest you start typing at the people who've posted information and comments that actually fit with the ones you're attributing to me.
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The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch
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| Posts: 1222 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 07-29-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by OldE:
... To lament it is to lament the flow of the river under the force of gravity.
... The law (fear of punishment) and moral principles (ones' consciousness) are merely balancing against those natural tendencies to prevent extremes.
... Otherwise this opinion stands as final.
Official signature affixed: RationalE
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"The letter of the law is a sword that killeth; its intent is a spirit that giveth life."
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Power Member
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If HIllary was that smart she would be a nominee by now 
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It is not necessary for the public to know whether I am joking or whether I am serious, just as it is not necessary for me to know it myself.
Salvador Dali
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Power Member
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Like a used car salesman, its the dems attempting to create substance out of thin air. Obama will lose in a landslide. There will be claims of fraud, racism, wringing of the hands, and calamity.
You voted democrat. This country is not worth sneaking into any more.
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| Posts: 5791 | Location: San Antonio TX | Registered: 06-08-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by davdah:
Hudson there is one overriding element here. When a USC does it, its done out of simple want. When an illegal does it, its out of need.
The Gov has cracked down enough so that just making up a number will no longer do. They need a SSN that actually exists. The numbers may be difficult to quantify based on an absense of public data. However, the presumption of obvious necessity and the numbers present indicate a wide spread abuse. In other words the situation must exist if they are still here, still working.
There are always choices Davdah, not so much defined in terms of need or want. And by my interpretation, you ware willing to give certain groups "amnesty" for committing ID theft than others all for a simple fact that you despise one and not the other, so to speak. Again, the problem you are miking is those assumptions of"obvious necessity" as you put it. It would work for some illegal immigrants who knowingly steal an identity, but not all illegal immigrants. But again, that is not always the case. Some may have unknowingly ve given a SSN. Remember, most illegals do not know the basics of immigration laws. Some may be forced to work, through slavery, and be given an SSN and not fully understanding what it means to have one. And there are other ways which a person may use a SSN inappropriately. A common way is providing a duplicate SSN on the tax form being claimed as a dependent or as a spouse. Like I said, you think two dimensionally Dacdah.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by Aroha:
That would be all well and good, Hudson, assuming my own words were the same as the ones that you've been seeing. Either your reading comprehension needs work or you're too bloody-minded to understand that. Whichever it is, I'm very tired of having to repeat myself, so I suggest you start typing at the people who've posted information and comments that actually fit with the ones you're attributing to me.
And I am saying you and I are no where close on the same page.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by Hudson:
And I am saying you and I are no where close on the same page.
You're right about that. I'm wondering at this point if we're even on the same planet.
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The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch
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| Posts: 1222 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 07-29-2007 | |
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Power Member
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quote: Originally posted by Aroha:
You're right about that. I'm wondering at this point if we're even on the same planet.
Aroha, making personal attacks is technically against the rules of this board.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
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Power Member
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LOL! I called you a little green man?? It's not a personal attack, Hudson. It simply meant that we're far more separated than just different pages. However, you will read it however you want, as you have with everything else I've said. As far as the actual issue goes, other people have posted statistics and links. Another actually did make a rather huge blanket statement. So why are you concentrating on me when I haven't? The only thing I can think of is that you perceive me to be an easier target, for whatever reason.
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The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch
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| Posts: 1222 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 07-29-2007 | |
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