quote:

Originally posted by chuck:
JermCool---Yes, it a smaller community under 25,000. The 70% comes from discussions with local undocumented. The population of the whole community is approx 12% Hispanic documented and undocumented. Why will the credit history be affected, The radical enforcement policies are not coming here?

He's referring to the credit score of the people whose social security numbers have been stolen by the undocumented workers and/or business owners. Nothing to do with radical enforcement policies.

quote:

Originally posted by Aroha:

quote:

Originally posted by OldE:
Politics.. same old...I know and understand it as well as myself

Reality beats the "ideal" for as long as I can remember ,and I have studied history very well

The problem with history is that it can be twisted to suit and much depends on the side of the fence the historian stands on.

Same as politics. LOL.

You mean "history is an agreed upon fiction"?
But that's not a problem with history, it's a problem with historians

My previous statement , btw, concerns the fact that "Real" beats "Idealistic" throughout the history; to know that you need to know the outcome of historic events, regardless of who describes them from what point of view.

4now--I am sorry, I just cannot bring myself to conclude that someone who decides he/she must cross that border uninspected to get a job that will be sufficient to provide for their family is an EVIL person as you state. Sorry, I hope few agree with you.

JermCool--Please define "cheesey rhetoric"?

quote:

Originally posted by JermCool:

quote:

Originally posted by chuck:
Don't give them a green card before those in line. Clear the line of those waiting patiently first, then after fines paid and all requirements met including background checks, the undocumented get green cards. There may be some form of temporary work permit for a probationary period and then they would get green cards. The way we are treating these families with the enforcement only policy is a horror and should stop immediately.

So let them work legally. That's what your saying, yes?

Chuck, I can read that over and over and it's still the same cheesy rhetoric that annoys the snot out of me.

What a childish argument to make: such and such are Evil or not Evil because...

People are people.
Hungry Mexicans (and those in similar countries) will do all they can to come and get a job here as long as they are paid more in US than in Mexico or elsewhere.

Those USCs whose lifestyle is disturbed in any way by the above mentioned group will do all they can to stop the flow and get rid of those who made it here so far.

Chips will fall as they may. If Nation as a whole still needs them , they will keep coming and stay. Otherwise, it will just as naturally go the other way.

The rest is rhetoric.

quote:

As far as I know this is a thread on presidential race, not immigration.
Start your own thread on the topic or move it to an existing one people.

Duh Look at the title of this thread....

Presidential candidates and their stand on immigration

quote:

Originally posted by chuck:
4now--I am sorry, I just cannot bring myself to conclude that someone who decides he/she must cross that border uninspected to get a job that will be sufficient to provide for their family is an EVIL person as you state. Sorry, I hope few agree with you.

Chuck,

I know your reading/comprehension skills are a little rusty, but please dont misquote me.

Here is the post again.. the discussion was about Illegals and you awere trying to use religion to justify their breaking into the country saying that it was out of need, hunger blah blah. Well even VINCENTE FOX will disagree with your statement. I have posted his statement about it several times in the past. He will tell you that there are plenty of jobs in Mexico and that his people are not starving. They come to USA for better pay, and opportunity and the free benefits.



This is not need to feed starving families, now is it Chuck?


This was the quote, please review and comprehend that their motivation to sneak in has its basis not from need but from greed. Greed has a tendency to make people disrepect others just so they can get what they want.


4now orginal QUOTE :

quote:

The underlying basis of Christianity is the law. The ten commandents are still in effect. The new testament says "I am giving you 2 new commandements. The basis of those two commandents if they are followed, will take care of all of the prior ten.

I am not finding out anything. It is not that difficult. These undocumenteds obviously disregard the commandment , because it is all about THEM. Maybe a little prayer and bible study is in order for them.. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things that one cannot change." They are coming here out of materialistic things.. not need.. it is a want, a covet, a desire, a lust. The underlying basis of the motivation is based from evil.

I am still waiting for your answer.. To give me two or even Just one reason why these illegals should get greencards before the people waiting in line legally.

quote:

Originally posted by Kollerkrot:
Jasmin, dream on! The reason the GOP has not scrutinized BO, is because they don't have anything to scrutinize him with. They can't answer to the war, not to the economy, not to honesty, etc. All they have is smears and guilt by association - the American people are smarter than that. Hillary has a BIG BAG of BAGGAGE including an almost impeached husband. Don't you think that the GOP, would awaken those ghost if she would be the nominee. The Clintons been involved in scandal after scandal throughout their political career. Hillary, is a pathological liar, there are people (Vince Foster is one) involved in the Clinton scandals that supposedly have committed suicide - nothing could ever be proven, but people do have a hunch and think that the Clintons did away with him and some others and I am sure that was weighing heavily on peoples minds. She is a pathological liar, she has proven it over and over again within the last couple of months. If women that follow her, want to vote for McCain - let them. This is a democracy, they have the right to.

I don't think that McCain will make the presidency, the GOP is in too much of a mess with the Bush and Cheney administration. We haven't heard the last of that either.

I definitely disagree Koller. No person is infallible, no one. But the question is how to approach the criticism. Obama has made good speeches, has a certain charism and charm, and even reminiscent of JFK and Ronald Reagan. However, each was heavily criticized during the election and won.

I have serious doubts about his health insurance plan and I have doubts about blaming certain groups for all the problems (about as bad as blaming immigrants for all the problems). If Sen Obama truly wants to unite this country, he has to include everyone to work together. Furthermore, this was proposed before and the Dems never, never, gave Pres Bush the benefit of the doubt. Now what has been set up is political payback.

TNow, the other part of the problem will be the DNC party platform. For instance, if the platform states that US combat troops will withdraw from Iraq no matter what by a given date, then how do you reconcile what Obama said about listening to the generals? Or does he replace the generals with "yes men." This is a problem, a very big problem for any candidate.

Finally, most Americans may not most of the specifics, but this is general in all democratically elected countries, including Gemrany.

quote:

Hudson---This a good one for you to read.

Here's another New York Times editorial that tells it like it is. I don't know any other publication that has been more vocal and on-the-mark about the injustices of the current American approach to immigration enforcement-without-reform than the Times. The Roman Catholic Church, Sojouners, ELCA, and a few other religious groups have also been consistently assertive about the need for justice, grace and humanity in immigration policies.

I'm wondering what we could do to show the world, and Washington, that the American people care about our neighbors without immigration status and demand justice for them. I'm thinking, something like a two-week "surge" of people, moving from the coasts to a central point, or maybe to Washington, converging on July 4th with a great concert and celebration and party and worship service.

Can we call this, or something like this, into being somehow, with prayers and preparations?

Chuck,
This might surprise you, but I am not a fan nor advocate fo FairUS or any other group. I am in favor of total comprehensive immigration reform for both legal and illegal immigrants. I am also in favor of the guest worker programs with a few minor changes as well as the SKIL act, just to name a few.

One of the changes with the guest worker program is to modify the current H2b program as the basis. I do believe that a visa limit of 400k visas is ample and to allow both legal and illegal immigrants to apply. I would also allow US companies to use the Embassies as a a recruitment tool through the Department of Commerce. The Department of Commerce would have guidelines that US companies current in their tax obligations would recruit the workers from abroad. Those immigrants that are illegal would apply through USCIS and would have to also meet their tax obligations. If none have filed a tax return and there is evidence of working, then a maximum period of three years would apply. And a fine no more than #3500 would be assessed. The fine can either be in full or in installments not lasting more than two years. All guest worker visa holders would need to return to their home country once in every three years. The time period would be six months to one year.

I would also increase the H1b visa cap to 95k visa per annum as well as family based immigrant green cards to 900k per annum to get rid of the backlog. Employment green card petitions would increase by 50%.

As for empllyers, I will not punish employers who mistakenly hire illegals b/c they could not differentiate between a really good fake and the genuine article. The law would read "any employer who willfully and negligently hire an illegal or who violate INA 274a2 shall be punished with a fine of no more than 500000 per occurrence and/or imprisonment no more than 5 years." I am eliminating "knowingly" from the equation and placing a higher standard. Furthermore, HR managers and employees must be certified by an appropriate law enforcement agency to differentiate between fake documents and real documents. This would also include a legal confidentiality clause that selling or any other means to assista anyone to allow conterfeiters to usurp the clause. Severe penalties would be enforced on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by JermCool:

quote:

Originally posted by chuck:
JermCool--Ya, you might say the negative things happening in Oklahoma and Arizona are due to penny pinching due to the economic slowdown, but I prefer the repressive law senario because I can visualize the effect in my community if we had similar draconian methods of removal in place here. We are hoping it won't happen here because the Latino element here has been the most agressive in starting new business and the element that has kept some activity in the real estate market. Yes, many of these folks are without proper documents, it is estimated that 70% of our population is undocumented.

You must be in a rather small community, Chuck. And seriously...70%? You don't see a problem with that? How many Social Security Numbers had to be stolen for those business start-ups? How many innocent people are going to have their credit scores permanently damaged when those businesses go under or those houses go into foreclosure?

There's a HUGE impact on innocent legals that these sympathizers just choose to ignore.

Sorry, there is no concrete data on this and your statement is more hysteria than actual fact.

Depending on the business entity being sought wold depend on what type of TIN being used. The predominant TIN for business is the EIN even with sole propirotorships. And you do not need to have a SSN to apply for an EIN. There is a number called an ITIN if an individual is applying for one.

quote:

Originally posted by Aroha:
He's referring to the credit score of the people whose social security numbers have been stolen by the undocumented workers and/or business owners. Nothing to do with radical enforcement policies.

This is more half truth and actual fact. It wold depend on the type of business entity and whether the owner or operator of that business is tied to the business loan. Too many factors to make this type of general statement.

Yes SSN's are being stolen, but it not just illegals. Can you say convicted felons, e-mail scams, and unscrupulous individuals with alterior motives. The individual can either be US citizen, an illegal, a legal immigrant, or one who is neither an immigrant or a citizen. But again, there is no concrete facts, only speculation from various agencies.

The point being made is a legal person will get a EIN based on their own valid SSN or ITIN. An illegal will not. The EIN will trace back to one of those two numbers. And woe be unto the actual holder of that number when the taxes and such are not paid.

Identities are stolen all the time. Does it justify yet another 12 million stolen SSN numbers because there may be a certain percentage of others doing it already? With that logic. If a few houses on your block get broken into during the month then its ok to break into yours? For the nay sayers wait until it happens to you. Then tell us its blown out of proportion.

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Originally posted by Sprint_girl07:
I'm sorry to disrupt this thread for a moment, but I do want to say something to IP regarding her post above, which I clearly missed.

IP, What the hell are you coming out with all this krap? Haven't you learned your lesson the last time around?
What was it you said to me not so long ago, about changing and being sorry?? Jeez you really do go below the belt sometimes when you open that bad mouth of yours.
Politics is damaging your brain big time, and your mouth.
You are proving more and more that you are racist. Calling Beverly the N word now Muslims terrorists.

I know you and Mike have always been at each others throats, but to take it out in his culture or religion is way below the belt.

You need to grow up girl, and you need to stop your motor mouth from spilling out krap and racism on here, or you will end up with more wrath than you can take.

I think you should join the likes of Cheryl, you both are unstable and obviously have some issues you both need to deal with.

Ha ha, now that is RICH. Considering Mike's post above full of K R A P as you call it. I wonder if you reported Mike's post, and instead chose mine to denigrate.
I think you really are as dumb as I initially thought and cannot read and comprehend posts content. You've got clear comprehension problems.
You are not able to grasp the irony in my post- I clearly said: in the language of rethugs- republicans are fearmongers, so I resorted to their tactics. Why not, since this forum is full of them anyway.
Stupid Sprintgirl.

quote:

Originally posted by Aroha:

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
As far as I know this is a thread on presidential race, not immigration.
Start your own thread on the topic or move it to an existing one people.

Is immigration not on the political agenda, iPerson? Did immigration not come up in each of their campaigns and did each candidate not state their stance and policy regarding it?

If the answer is yes to any of the above questions, then it is part of the election platform, part of the potential policies of the next President. It is perfectly relevant to a political conversation on an IMMIGRATION forum.

Yes when it is connected to the candidate, which it isn't in the exchanges that are going on right now.
It is a thread on presidential candidate AND/PLUS their stand on immigration. See the link?

Btw, to set the record straight- I am an LPR and I NEVER overstayed any visa.

And- Mike is right now in Mexico after he tried to cross the border illegally by pretending he is a US citizen. Considering the language he uses, he is a low life who is trying to scam this country, and should never be admitted to the US again.

Wow, I was just here yesterday and already several pages to read!

Just to congratulate the supporters of Obama for making history and clinching the nomination!

It's now Obama's "Change we can believe in" to McCain's "A leader we can believe in." For the sake of the USA and her people, may the best man win! Link

And may the ardent supporters of each candidate keep their cool and may the discussions and the debates here in the forum serve as an avenue for learning and sharing of information.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
It will probably be Hillary but it will be very close. A little too close to call. Ok, how about this. 2 hours for the Democrat nomine? You take Obama and I'll take Hillary. Are we on?

In light of the events that occurred yesterday, I thought it most appropriate to bring this post out of the closet - lol! Oh Davdah? Where are you???

I agree. Can you ask him to post his once in a lifetime pic of the Navy ceremony cross-dressing instead of the community service? LOL!