Aroha---What is your question? For some reason I apparently missed it.
I found it. Somewhere I did address this question. I am sorry I did not refer to your question specifically. I am sorry if I was misinterpreted. I am not the most articulate person on the block. I highly respect those that immigrate to the U.S. legally. My couson, a Mexican citizen did this very thing and we are proud of her. The one thing in her favor was she was educated, came from a prominant family, and had many connections. I am not saying this to mean she did not deserve to be given some preference. I am sure there are instances of immigrants with nothing going for them and they came legally. But we surely must know that most of the ones who come uninspected or come on a visitors visa and overstay have little chance to come legally. Those that came legally were lucky and also should be proud of the way they did it, but lets not make criminals out of those folks that came across the river on an innertube. They did break the law and should be penalized as CIR includes, but make some kind of path to legalize so their lives arn't destroyed. It will be beneficial to all of us. Sorry, I was not clear that my position is not meant to be disrespctful of those that came legally.
Jamin, we'll talk after you cool down. Maybe when the summer's over, hopefully you'll be able to think reasonably. In the meantime I suggest you pick up Audacity of Hope to learn about our next president. Imagine how you will feel when he's our president for the next 8 years and you still have this irrational hatred in your heart.
Until you've read the book.
Hey Chuck. I'll try to summon my thoughts into a coherent message on why I support Obama, in the next few months. Of course the beautiful mind is just the beginning.
I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
Originally posted by iperson: In the meantime I suggest you pick up Audacity of Hope to learn about our next president. Imagine how you will feel when he's our president for the next 8 years and you still have this irrational hatred in your heart.
I don't need to read a phony book which is written to mislead people. Everyone knows that talks are cheap, and Obama has offered nothing than just empty talks of "changes" and "hopes". Tell us what he has done to bring a "change' while being in the Senate for 4 yrs and many years in Chicago as legislator?? When he was unable to bring "change" so far then why do we believe it will do anything good this time?? He has nothing to back up his words because his record is empty in this regard. I need to have something concreate to believe on his promises than his empty words. You might care about big O, but I don't.
He could be the President of this country, but he would never get my respect and vote which is same to the fact President Bush has never been able to get yours even though he is the President of this country.
Posts: 203 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: 11-21-2003
Originally posted by chuck: JermCool---The question about the impact on the economy. My statement is an educated guess, in other words you might call it speculation. I do not have any hard data but I do follow the news quite comprehensively, and from looking at several states that have passed such repressive laws and made it so difficult for the undocumented that they are leaving those states, the impact of them leaving is becoming quite obvious. Business closings, slow business for the remaining, more for sale signs---not good. So, yes it is speculation and I think the risk is too great and CIR is much more appropriate in every way.
With the economy the way it is right now, you would have to admit that this anecdotal evidence could be the result of people pinching pennies and not because those state governments have restricted the "cheap labor"?
-------------------- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 775 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 05-16-2008
Fine Jasmin. We don't have to talk. In fact, I don't want to talk to you because you obviously are a person who likes to self inflict misery. Look what happened to your choice of a president- you're broke, poor, and probably lonely. You blame everyone else on your miserable life, and you think you need someone powerful and as destructive in the seat of power so that you feel empowered. It's the only way you feel safe when you have a bully as president who vows to wage endless wars against other people in the world and make them miserable too. You're not self-reliant, independant thinking person. You need someone to rely on to live.
That's how I picture you and the likes of you.
Obama is for free, strong, and self-reliant people, despite the misconceptions. Weak people vote Republican. Strong people vote Democrat.
And you're weak.
I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
oh there we go again with iiiiiiiiiiiperson dont you have something better to do in your worthless life iperson but attacking people and posting your trash all over the forum?and let me ask you this how did you know if shes poor and lonely and i dont know what? your acting like your from the moon or something and if you dont like the country why did you immigrate here and over stayed your visa which is (illegal)thing to do? and if she/he voted for bush at least this is their country and they have freedom which you did not have in your home country and thats why your jelous and thats why they can vote for whoever they like and if your polish president was so great why did you came here at the first place?am not done yet i have alot more to say before i slap your face iiiiiiiperson .and your talking about the u.s attacking people and i dont know what and why its ok for you to attack the people that you dont even know just because of who they voted for ? attack is not just when the army bomb some other countrys ,you are attacking everyone on the forum and killing us with your boring bull**** stories . first you came up with hillary and later you switch to obama!!!! and no one attacked you because this is your personal choice. i just dont understand people like you sometimes, more than 10 members in the past asked you to leave the forum because no body likes you so why are you still posting anyway ? i posted a video for you and i was wondering if you got the chance to see it and just in case here it is again http://youtube.com/watch?v=vixwcHWOiWo&feature=related
...................................................................................................................................... impossibility is a word found only in the dictionary of fools
Mike, she's a moonbat. It's what they do. Anyone who doesn't agree with her position is automatically: 1) A racist 2) A facist 3) A Nazi 4) A redneck hillbilly clinging to their guns 5) All of the above.
There is no room for a difference of opinion in their little minds. It's a belief that if they think that they're right hard enough the fabric of reality will change and everyone will conform to their ideas.
-------------------- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 775 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 05-16-2008
Originally posted by 4now: BLUE SCRIPT NOW Posting response
Why? Becuase YOU say so?
Yes, and I have the events since IRCA of 1986 to back up my statement. The amnesty and the employer sanctions that were provided for in that law have never been enforced. It had been all old politics and status quo since then by letting the system fend for itself. The illegal population in its critical magnitude is the direct effect of such inaction.
As usual RN, you do not put any blame on these people that disrepected the laws of the land becuase they wanted to.. Not because they needed to..
Er, in case you haven't noticed, we feed them for FREE ,educate them, clothe them, Healthcare them, say thank you to the hardworking taxpayers here. We did that.. NOw go home and get in line and PLAY FAIR like the rest of us. Well I see you didnt respond to the benelovance of the usa people paragraph. instead you get on the soapbox again saying nothing below.
Migration, emigration, and immigration are natural tendencies of men, that are, yes, as old as the history of men itself. It is more so in the case of America, the resplendent city on top of the hill, the dream destination of the world. What makes me wonder is that one country as great as the US can't or refused to adapt to this age-old truism that went side by side even before the time of its founding. Even the US Constitution framers themselves have this phenomenon in mind. Article 1 Section 8 has this to say: "To establish a uniform rule of Naturalization..." To me, this provision alone connotes that this country will be 'welcoming' peoples from all over the world into its fold. The legislative branch was ordained to undertake this task. Looking back, has it been done to the letter? If so, why do we complain about the effect of such a failure now?
Welcoming people who are inspected and have been approved for admittance for immigration.
Thank you Rev Wright.. oops, I mean Rev RN for that stirring sermon from the pulpit. Round of applause everybody
Sorry, but a devout catholic through and through.
Unfounded? Yours are the unfounded remarks.. Illegals have moved into major workforce markets that have taken away from the usa worker. You cannot deny construction and restaruant
Add to that the healthcare industry. Case in point. This particular portion of our economy is one of the prime sanctuaries for hiring illegal workers. Raids? Oops! They're off-limit, untouchables. Because these are jobs Americans don't want to do. Time to stop the hypocrisy. Construction and restaurants? Okay, Arizona is now feeling the pinch of their draconian anti-immigrant ordinances and it's only after only a few months of implementation. Construction projects have slowed down, and restaurants are moving their operations somewhere. For Rent signs on buildings are everywhere.
Thats ridiculous. Construction slowing down does not have anything to do with the illegals leaving those jobs. Those greedy restaurant owners are moving because they dont want to make less profit using legal help, and now they dont have the illegal customers to make that profit from. Good riddance. They didnt do anything to help the legal people here, just lining their pockets deeply. Same for the slumlords/landlords. It will take time to rebuild their towns and economy.
It doesnt matter what started Illegal immigration RN, the problem is that they are here and draining the system... Hence Illegal PEOPLE are a problem, despite whatever reason that they are illegal.
And the right thing to do, beyond pulling our hair and banging our chests because they are there causing us problem, is what? Never have I said, now and then, that they should be given a clean slate like the IRCA sort of amnesty. It has been proven to be a failure. What I said was that I submit to whatever formula the US Congress would come up with to address, deal with, or if possible, solve the problem. Because any problem is not meant to last, but meant to end. And looking the other way for so long now is not an intelligent option.
Rn, you already do not accept the fence project. You express some of the solutions as repressive, etc. Are you saying that you will support what congress comes up with even if you dont like the proposals/final legislations? are you going to accept them WITHOUT CRITICISM? You talk out of two sides of the mouth. The current legislations your are criticizing.... Why did you not just accept the current policy on illegals that sneak into the country? YOur obvious disrepect for the immigration policies is appalling. Your willingness to stand with people that break and fail to uphold the law of this great country is an act of betrayal, treachery, I will even go as far as saying TREASON. You cannot be on both sides... as you can not drink from two cups (evil/Lie and good/truth) You decide where you will stand in the harvest.
Ron Paul of course, not these three clowns.
Calling the three prevailing aspirants for the presidential nomination as 'clowns' is your First Amendment right. Ron Paul is a seasoned statesman and an honorable person. But, beyond the personalities involved, your obvious disrespect for the established process of selection institutionalized by the Twelfth Amendment of the Constitution is appalling. That's turning your back to the promise of allegiance that you have recited under oath during your naturalization ceremony. That's an act of treachery, an act of treason.
Hmmm....You are the person that is upholding the criminal acts of these lawbreakers that are in direct conflict with the laws here. Looks like, sounds like, must be... TREASON. Now me, I called the candidates clowns and you say it is an act of treason Oh yea, I forgot your fabrication about disrepecting the process.. crystal ball syndrome.. didnt take your meds again ,eh
Well some stupid person made up that saying. the voice of the people want to ok same *** marriages, I dont think that this is the voice of God.. at least that is not what the Bible teaches.. or is it Rev?
Beyond the controversy, hatred, and debate surrounding immigration, a little regard to the US Constitution that you promised to uphold is respectfully enjoined. As I said mixing my religion and faith with the things of this world is very seldom done by me, I already did a little bit in my previous post and that's it. You mean to say Illegal migration.. You are confused, and/or if you are trying to confuse the masses like the media by using the term immigrants in regards to these illegals.... IT IS NOT WORKING>>AMERICA IS ON TO THIS TACTIC. As usual, you havent given me even one reason... I didnt ask for 3 words
Not just the words, buddy. It's the inevitable meaning that the three words represent.
[/b]Pastor RN, then, accordingly, we should not be imprisoning criminals for their wrong deeds according to you and your take on things... correct?
As I said many times before, criminal acts could never be condoned. Once a criminal committed an act in violation of other people's rights and well-being, such criminal loses his own. He should pay his due, even with his own life. "Give unto Caesar what's for Caesar, and give unto God what's for God."
Yes I hope there is reform for legal immigrants and their families. This should not have any impact or relevance to illegals.
And ignoring their existence is poor governance and a dirty politics that's not good for America. They have been like this for years.. a few more years is no big deal while our government should be sorting out how to reunite legal immigrant families and make new reforms that will unite families quicker and be more fair. Rewards for following guidelines and being patient.
It has been said, and will continue to be said, becauase it is the right thing to say. Write your congressman to uphold the american value by not rewarding cheaters and liars. Direct them to not give comprehensive immigration reward to illegals. Do reward those that do good and have stood in line with patience and sincerity. Now, Save your scriptures and sermon for the appropriate applications Rev. Wright, because everything you site can be used to not uphold the penal system. But why not, you already endorse criminals and lawbreakers running amongst us. Just open the doors to the jails and let these people out, after all the usa has seperated them from their families right... Get a grip.
Objection please, my consistent position was to submit to whatever lawful order and procedure to be undertaken by constitutionally ordained branches of government. Please review my old posts if you will.
You complain about it now, and you will complain about it in the future if CIR does not give illegals/undocumenteds path to greencards.
Said it before and will say it again.... Comprehensive immigration reform should not include any aspect of Illegals. The entire reform should be about families of legal immigrants and solving current problems entangling them and getting spouses and/or loved ones here. ONly then after these problems are solved should any other legislation be talked about. Can I get an Amen
I say amen to God, to the US Constitution, and to the lawful order.
RN QUOTE IS BEST As I said many times before, criminal acts could never be condoned. Once a criminal committed an act in violation of other people's rights and well-being, such criminal loses his own. He should pay his due, even with his own life. "Give unto Caesar what's for Caesar, and give unto God what's for God."
Amen to that quote of yours RN Your quote RN says it all perfectly. I am glad to see you have come to your senses and accept that these lawbreakers should not be rewarded. CASE on Illegal immigration closed. NO REWARDS/NO PATH TO GREENCARD
Originally posted by chuck: 4now--- Sorry, Christianity is NOT about laws, the Old Testament is about laws, Christianity is as the New Testament describes. No one could say it better, "love thy neighbor as you love yourself". One does have to love himself/herself to do this and it is very difficult as you are finding out.
The underlying basis of Christianity is the law. The ten commandents are still in effect. The new testament says "I am giving you 2 new commandements. The basis of those two commandents if they are followed, will take care of all of the prior ten.
I am not finding out anything. It is not that difficult. These undocumenteds obviously disregard the commandment , because it is all about THEM. Maybe a little prayer and bible study is in order for them.. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things that one cannot change." They are coming here out of materialistic things.. not need.. it is a want, a covet, a desire, a lust. The underlying basis of the motivation is based from evil.
I am still waiting for your answer.. To give me two or even Just one reason why these illegals should get greencards before the people waiting in line legally.
Originally posted by chuck: DEMOCRAT LANDSLIDE IN NOVEMBER.
Maybe, maybe no. A little Presential History. Walter Mondale was way ahead in March during the 1984 Presidential elections, but Reagan won in a landslide. Clinton was either neck in neck at this time in 1992 until Ross Perot entered the picture. This split the Republican vote and allowed Pres Clinton to win a plurality in Novemeber and a huge win with the electoral college.
The point is the only true election poll that counts will be in Novemmeber and no where else.
Originally posted by chuck: 4now--- Sorry, Christianity is NOT about laws, the Old Testament is about laws, Christianity is as the New Testament describes. No one could say it better, "love thy neighbor as you love yourself". One does have to love himself/herself to do this and it is very difficult as you are finding out.
To paraphrase a parable in one of the gospels, when Jesus was asked by a Pharasee which commandment was the greateest, He answered "Love Thy Lord with all they heart, mind, and soul and Love thy neighbor as thyself."
However, I think the Apostle Paul said it best, "to live Christ, to die gain." Philippians 1:21
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hudson,
Originally posted by chuck: Iperson--your point that there is really nothing we can do about it so we better try to be more civil in our dealings makes much sence.
Chuck, There is a lot you can do if you start with the little things first. For instance, go to zone planning meeting that are not in your neighborhood. Go to City or County council meetings, go to School Board meetings. Go to community meetings. Or volunteer with a nonprofit organization on a regularly basis. Become a mentor. But do something instead of just smacking away in an internet forum. But the problem is most people want someone else to do something, to sacrifice, to make the "hard decision," yet only want to come into the fray when it is convenient.
If you cannot change or help people around you in your own area, then how can you change the world.
Hudson-Your advice is appropriate for someone that only "smack away on some internet forum".However I take offence to the implication that I am one of these folks. As a start, I am on 5 local boards including Habitat for Humanity. I have participated in the building of 12 houses since Habitat was formed in this county. I have been a part of 9 mission teams 2 to Haiti, 4 to Mississippi and Louisiana to help rebuild after Katrina, and work with the youth minister and mentor young folks. I volunteer to the state Dept of Natural Resources and Conservation Dept monitoring a stream for water quality. I go to city meetings and school board meetings. My time is appropriately utilized.
The reason I post on The Immigration Forum is beacuse I am very interested in the plight of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. My direct experience with this issue is mentoring a fine young man for the last 5 years who was a target for ICE to deport. We campaigned and gathered forces and reasons to support his fight with immigration which after 5 years was successful in a ruling of "cancellation of removal" and now ha has his Green Card. Someday he hopes to be a citizen.
There are other things that I participate in which are volunteer and too numerous to list. I am really not happy about stating the things I do, but had to set the record straight after your statement about, "smacking away on some internet forum" and not doing anything
Chuck, The "smacking away" comment was never directly toward you, but a more general statement about another poster.
I know you are interested in immigration and that is why you post here. It is also why most people post here irregardless of their political views. Immigration should never be about Democrat vs Republican, it should be about an equitable solution to allow those who wish to immigrant or temporarily stay in this great nation. Of course there are disagreements on how it the process should apply. I for one am not a fan of the current immigration system nor am I am a fan proposed by FAIRUS.org and other similar organizations. I have found that most people react from the national and local news being presented. They look at the face value of someone rather than what it inside. Hence is why you have proposed ordinaces like the one in Farmer's Branch or Hazelton, PA. it is more out of fear just like the Japanese, Italians, and Germans who were incarcerated at internment camps during WWII. And it starts with the local politics. Those school boards, city or county commissions, etc have a more direct impact on your daily lives than what Congress does in a year of passing laws. And whether you live in a small town or a major city, you will find immigrants. In summary, what I am trying to say is to keep politics out as much as possible with volutneer work. If you are a volunteer and you are doing the work, it should not be about changing political mindsets, it should be about education and let others reason for themselves who is best. Immigration is only one factor and sometimes it is a more important factor than what letter is next to the candidates name.
This board is too politicised. May be it's the way it should be, since immigration and politics can hardly be separated - after all it's political figures and those who elect them that set the course of events having direct impact on immigration policies. In any event this is not something I willget myself involved with, for politics is something I'll do my best to keep myself away from. And so is Presidential elections.
My advise to all immigrants (based on my life experience earned with some cost):
Stay away from political debates and let those whose job it is to determine, chips will fall as they may anyway.
Enjoy your life, it's short. Get into good business, use or develope your entrepreneural skills, this way you will not only make a profit but will actually improve the lifestyle of your own and those closest and most dear to you. It's something REAL you can do, as opposed to empty talk or expectations.
Get into Arts and Music if you want to fill your spare time with meaningful activities. Of course nothing beats sports, but to everyone their own.
Originally posted by chuck: 4now--- Sorry, Christianity is NOT about laws, the Old Testament is about laws, Christianity is as the New Testament describes. No one could say it better, "love thy neighbor as you love yourself". One does have to love himself/herself to do this and it is very difficult as you are finding out.
The underlying basis of Christianity is the law. The ten commandents are still in effect. The new testament says "I am giving you 2 new commandements. The basis of those two commandents if they are followed, will take care of all of the prior ten.
I am not finding out anything. It is not that difficult. These undocumenteds obviously disregard the commandment , because it is all about THEM. Maybe a little prayer and bible study is in order for them.. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things that one cannot change." They are coming here out of materialistic things.. not need.. it is a want, a covet, a desire, a lust. The underlying basis of the motivation is based from evil.
I am still waiting for your answer.. To give me two or even Just one reason why these illegals should get greencards before the people waiting in line legally.
You dont have one, do you? and neither did RN
Christ did not give two new commandments for Christians to follw, but summarized the commandments into two categories. The first six commandments deal with how to love the Lord your God and the last four is how to respect your fellow man. But, if you read Leviticus and Deuteronomy, you will find more than 600 commandments, not just ten.
For Christians, it is about Faith and Grace. Grace can be explained as God's Riches at Christ's Expense. Faith can be perfectly described in Hebrews Ch. 11.
What we also need to fear is not to be like the Saducees and Pharasees of the Sanhedrin. And we see this with numbersou parables in the Gospels. For instance, the parable of the Great Samarian, the parable of sowing of the seeds, the parable of the talents, etc. Law can be a useful tool, but it can also be a deadly enemy if used unjustly, unwisely, and injudiciously.
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Oh yea, I forgot your fabrication about disrepecting the process.. crystal ball syndrome.. didnt take your meds again ,eh
