Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
Power Member
|
I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction," says Obama. UPDATED AND CORRECTED.
UPDATE AND CORRECTION: From reader Dan, with thanks:
The actual quote from the book is from page 261 and is as follows: "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Jermcool, thanks.. it seems that someone has taken liberties with that quote.
I find it very unethical and sad that people will misrepresent quotes in order to try to sway public opinion. It is further irritating that Muslim has become a code word for arabic and pakistani.
This is unacceptable journalism period.
In the wake of 911 it looked like it was going to be another fiasco like the Japanese or the Iranian fiasco .. but no way was this going to happen in this day and age, even though many would have given it their blessing.
This muslim scare tactic thing has got to go. Let this man stand on his merits and attack or praise the real issues for which he stands.
|
| |
|
Frequent Member
|
4now--Does Christianity have any tradition of welcoming and hospitality? I suspect scripture says more about welcoming and hospitality than anything about punishing someone for crossing a border illegally to earn enough money to feed the family. Come on!
I have had experience employing Hispanics and it was not illegal immigration first and than lower wages. It was the corporation rightly or wrongly lowering wages to the point that Anglos or other workers would not work certain jobs for the new lowered wages and the incentive was there to even recrute newly arrived undocumented immigrants along the Texas border, where I am aquainted.
Lets be honest, when we talk aboue "illegal alieans", we are mainly talking about Latinos. Yes there are many other undocumented immigrants, but more than 60% are Latino.
One reason why we should penalize for breaking the law and at the same time make some path that can allow those that are not felons to become legal. Many of these folk have established homes and families and try to be productive members of society. Many have purchased homes. In my community the real estate business would have been very bad, for the last 5 years before the houseing buble burst, if it were not for Latinos buying homes. Many Latino families have mixed legality, some undocumented some not, is it ethical or Cristian, or even morally responsible to try to split up these families?
We created this mess over the last 20 years by ignoring the problem because we need the labor. There are better solutions than enforcement only as is the current policy of ICE.
Yes, it is somewhat unfair to those that stood in line and followed the rules to immigrate. But I suspect very few resident visas are issued to laboring people. If I were in Mexico and could not make sufficient to feed my family, I would first see if I could immigrate legally. If I was told it may be a year or 10 years or never, I would go anyway legal or otherwise. My family might not survive 1/10 years. The key is to assist Mexico in creating as good an employment climate as in the U.S. We are not going to stop illegal immigration useing the methods we think acceptable. Yes, draconian methods would slow it down even more but we as a civilized society would rightly not accept.
Now you say it is absurd that we may create an underclass. I disagree, we have already started with our repressive laws that come with enforcement only policy. The situation in Europe with undocumented and documented immigrants from nations in Africa already are seeing the results of underclass creation.
I will stop her and make a prediction. Within 18 months of the November elections Congress and the new President will do the right thing and pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform. It will include some penalties, will weed out felons, will have a path to legalization, and will be the right thing to do, no matter what the Lou Dobbs of the world think, or the racists, or the nativists, or the Shawn Hennesseys think. It is the right thing to do. It is the ethical thing to do, it is the moral thing to do, and yes it is what Jesus would do.
|
| |
| Posts: 354 | Location: mo., u.s.a. | Registered: 11-19-2003 | |
|
Power Member
|
To all Clintonistas on this forum- read and for once THINK:I'm a 55-year-old white woman. Our greatest matter of urgency in America is to be sure a Democrat becomes President in November, and to get as many Democrats as possible elected to both houses of Congress. We need to do the same thing at state and local levels. altruista's diary :: :: I've never supported any political candidate enough to campaign or canvass for them. I've never felt that any candidate would be able to keep their campaign promises once they got into power and went up against the machinery that's occupying this country today. I've never felt strongly enough about a candidate to feel moved to be an activist for them. No candidate can ever be all things to everyone. And until now I've been able to keep a respectful silence while others with very strong feelings for either of the Democratic candidates for President have public melt-downs when their candidate has a political setback. I can't keep quiet now. I've just been watching a white woman in my age group on CNN going radioactive to the cameras about how she's going to vote for McCain if Hillary Rodham Clinton doesn't get the Democratic nomination. She gave as her rationale for this chop-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face tactic that the Democratic party has turned on its women supporters. To this woman, if you and others like you are reading this: and you'd like the proven record of Republican conservatives for their all-out war on women's rights? We're now paying the price for three decades of conservative domination in America---what it's done to the American character; the fact of American commerce now as morally bankrupt as it is; the abuses of Wall Street; the abuse of the environment; the poisonous cynicism and corruption of this administration---I could go on for pages. Back to the issue of women's rights. You, woman screaming into the cameras: you are old enough to remember the pre-Roe v. Wade days in America. Remeber coat hangers, Drano, women hurling themselves down steps, women dying and left unable to bear children from illegal botched abortions? Remember birth control outlawed? Remember the early 1970s, when a woman could not get a credit card or bank loan in her own name---when a woman needed an adult male co-signer's permission for them because we were deemed incompetent to manage our own financial affairs? Remember when sexual harassment and open *** discrimination were legal? Remember when we didn't have rape shield laws, when marital rape wasn't illegal? Remember when a woman being used as a punching bag by her husband had no recourse---had no earning power, no options, when the police she turned to often were abusers themselves and sympathized with the husband, when domestic violence shelters weren't even a *****le in anyone's eye? If I remember all of that---and I do---then you do, too, Screaming Woman. Republicans fought the changes that spare today's women those infringements of basic human rights. Give the Republican Party platform a close reading. They want to return us to those days. And because the Democratic Party enacts a decision you (and maybe I) don't agree with, you're really going to show them, and vote for McCain? The same McCain who, in front of a group of people and in a mouth-frothing rage, called his wife a ****? The same McCain who mocked Chelsea Clinton, a child at the time, as ugly? The same McCain who vows to appoint Supreme Court justices who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade? The same McCain who simply laughed when a Republican woman asked him, on camera, "How do we beat the *****?"---referring to Clinton, your candidate of choice? The Democratic Party's decision was worse than this? Please. Get things in perspective. I do not consent to watching Republicans---the American Taliban---imposing their misogynistic policies on my nieces. Grow up. I seldom use language this strong, and I understand your anger. But remember who our adversaries are. Rememeber what they're made of, remember the damage they've done already and the worse damage they surely will do if we vote them back into power. Truly, Screaming Woman, I cannot wrap my brain around any woman willing to hand all America's women over to these American Taliban if Clinton doesn't get the nomination. You implied in your meltdown that the Democratic Party is making a calculated effort to prevent a woman from winning the nomination because she's a woman. News flash: it's possible to support Obama and not be a misogynistic goon. I had to get that out of my system. Now please, calm down, get your emotions in check, and do this. Think critically, interpret what the candidates say and do, reach informed decisions based on their judgment, character, track record, and positions on the issues, and don't abuse the vote that women fought so courageously for so long to win. link
the "personal" is political
|
| |
|
Power Member
|
quote: Originally posted by iperson: To all Clintonistas on this forum- read and for once THINK:I'm a 55-year-old white woman. Our greatest matter of urgency in America is to be sure a Democrat becomes President in November, and to get as many Democrats as possible elected to both houses of Congress. We need to do the same thing at state and local levels. altruista's diary :: :: I've never supported any political candidate enough to campaign or canvass for them. I've never felt that any candidate would be able to keep their campaign promises once they got into power and went up against the machinery that's occupying this country today. I've never felt strongly enough about a candidate to feel moved to be an activist for them. No candidate can ever be all things to everyone. And until now I've been able to keep a respectful silence while others with very strong feelings for either of the Democratic candidates for President have public melt-downs when their candidate has a political setback. I can't keep quiet now. I've just been watching a white woman in my age group on CNN going radioactive to the cameras about how she's going to vote for McCain if Hillary Rodham Clinton doesn't get the Democratic nomination. She gave as her rationale for this chop-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face tactic that the Democratic party has turned on its women supporters. To this woman, if you and others like you are reading this: and you'd like the proven record of Republican conservatives for their all-out war on women's rights? We're now paying the price for three decades of conservative domination in America---what it's done to the American character; the fact of American commerce now as morally bankrupt as it is; the abuses of Wall Street; the abuse of the environment; the poisonous cynicism and corruption of this administration---I could go on for pages. Back to the issue of women's rights. You, woman screaming into the cameras: you are old enough to remember the pre-Roe v. Wade days in America. Remeber coat hangers, Drano, women hurling themselves down steps, women dying and left unable to bear children from illegal botched abortions? Remember birth control outlawed? Remember the early 1970s, when a woman could not get a credit card or bank loan in her own name---when a woman needed an adult male co-signer's permission for them because we were deemed incompetent to manage our own financial affairs? Remember when sexual harassment and open *** discrimination were legal? Remember when we didn't have rape shield laws, when marital rape wasn't illegal? Remember when a woman being used as a punching bag by her husband had no recourse---had no earning power, no options, when the police she turned to often were abusers themselves and sympathized with the husband, when domestic violence shelters weren't even a *****le in anyone's eye? If I remember all of that---and I do---then you do, too, Screaming Woman. Republicans fought the changes that spare today's women those infringements of basic human rights. Give the Republican Party platform a close reading. They want to return us to those days. And because the Democratic Party enacts a decision you (and maybe I) don't agree with, you're really going to show them, and vote for McCain? The same McCain who, in front of a group of people and in a mouth-frothing rage, called his wife a ****? The same McCain who mocked Chelsea Clinton, a child at the time, as ugly? The same McCain who vows to appoint Supreme Court justices who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade? The same McCain who simply laughed when a Republican woman asked him, on camera, "How do we beat the *****?"---referring to Clinton, your candidate of choice? The Democratic Party's decision was worse than this? Please. Get things in perspective. I do not consent to watching Republicans---the American Taliban---imposing their misogynistic policies on my nieces. Grow up. I seldom use language this strong, and I understand your anger. But remember who our adversaries are. Rememeber what they're made of, remember the damage they've done already and the worse damage they surely will do if we vote them back into power. Truly, Screaming Woman, I cannot wrap my brain around any woman willing to hand all America's women over to these American Taliban if Clinton doesn't get the nomination. You implied in your meltdown that the Democratic Party is making a calculated effort to prevent a woman from winning the nomination because she's a woman. News flash: it's possible to support Obama and not be a misogynistic goon. I had to get that out of my system. Now please, calm down, get your emotions in check, and do this. Think critically, interpret what the candidates say and do, reach informed decisions based on their judgment, character, track record, and positions on the issues, and don't abuse the vote that women fought so courageously for so long to win. link
And the same stupid democrats created a lethal weapon known as VAWA which is literary destroying entire America. It is like a cancer rapidly spreading among us and in no time will kill every American Men. No more STUPID Dems in the Govt.
I am not racist. I am not anti-immigrant. I am AGAINST CRIMINALS, FRAUDSTERS, WHO DISOBEY THE LAW, BREAK THE LAW AND PERPETRATE THE FRAUD.
You may not like what I have to say but that does not mean I am wrong.
|
| |
| Posts: 1617 | Location: For Women In Your Heart | Registered: 05-05-2008 | |
|
Senior Member
|
quote: Originally posted by chuck:
JermCool--For the last 20 years employers were never punished for hiring undocumented workers. In my experience there were elements in my particular industry that forced lower wages and our traditional American workers would not work for the reduced wages. To continue operating this industry agressively pursued Latino workers and since for 20 years there were no penalties it did not matter wheather documented or otherwise.
I don't disagree with any of that. Arizona had the right idea. The state started targeting employers who hired undocumented workers. As a result, illegal immigration is on the decline there. Illegals have started either going home or relocating to other states. If the federal government followed the Arizona example, they would just go home. link
--------------------
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " - Thomas Jefferson
|
| |
| Posts: 775 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 05-16-2008 | |
|
Senior Member
|
quote: Originally posted by chuck:
If they would "just go home" as you state it would be an unnaceptable blow to this nations economy. That is why we need Comprehensive Reform.
Is this speculation or do you have data behind this? I'm not being sarcastic. If there's honest-to-goodness data to support this statement, I might be willing to flex a little. But in the meantime, I do not support the enabling of people who thwart the law.
--------------------
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " - Thomas Jefferson
|
| |
| Posts: 775 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 05-16-2008 | |
|
Power Member
|
Can someone update me please..as I haven't been reading this thread for sometime.... Who is IP voting for now?? Is it Obama or has she gone back to Hillary? Just wondered like  Or IP can answer herself of course ..*waves to IP* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U. |
| |
|
Power Member
|
quote: Originally posted by 4now: ... >With due respect to Chuck to whom this original post was addressed, and my apologies to all non-Christians. I normally keep my faith personal and private, but I deviate this time for my statements to be relevant. RN<No path to legalization. >Why, because you say so?< It is not ethical nor is it Christian. >Doing nothing is unethical and un-Christian.< christianity is not built on lies and stealing. >"But the Lord so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son..." not for the sinless, but for the sinners.< In the opposite, the old and new testament have guidelines to take care of lies and stealing. >But also more on forgiveness, because ours is "a forgiving God, gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love." Then the parable of the Prodigal Son (or Lost Son) comes back to mind, the one that sets off to a distant land and squanders his share of his father’s wealth. But when he comes back a very poor man, his father welcomes him warmly with his excesses all but forgiven and forgotten, to the chagrin of his older loyal son. Then there’s that adulterous woman brought before Jesus by the Pharisees to be condemned by stoning. Wherefore, Jesus said to the crowd “any one of you without sin, cast the first stone.†They silently left. And Jesus said to the woman, “your sin is forgiven, sin no more.â€In the pontiff’s recent visit, immigration was his second topic before boarding the plane in Rome, and the first when he set foot in the White House. The country more than ever has been seeing the strongest multi-denominational advocacies in favor of Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Christians or not are one in petitioning the government to act.< It is unethical to disrespect the laws of a sovereign nation. this is cra-pola about creating an underclass. > Deuteronomy 10:18-20 “He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing. And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt. Fear the LORD your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name.â€< This does not and will not fly with the intelligent masses here. latino families are not the only people undocumented, as they are from all over the world that cross that border. >Just as the inaction and the campaign of hate and fear don’t and will never fly any longer. The seat of power where dramatic changes should happen is gearing up to be changed to its deepest core. First was the legislature that moved away a couple of years back from the losing politics of extreme right conservatism. And those who aspired to replace Bush, but whose convictions were extreme and hardline, were all but sidelined. Indeed, hope and change are in the offing. Whether we like it or not, we better believe it.<This sounds like a threat/blackmail to me about exploding if usa takes away rights that they technically do not have because they are not even supposed to be here. Are you saying a type of civil war is in the vision if they dont get their way??? It will be the end of Illegals/undocumented if that were to happen. Let them stay exactly as they are because this is more than they deserve. >Talk of civil war or rebellion is a bit extreme. But one thing is certain. The current immigration mess should and must be addressed. It’s a huge paradox for a superpower, the global police and disseminator of democracy and freedom the world over, to be leaving such a prehistoric morass in its own background unchecked. < They have cut the working wage to pennies and continue to take jobs in this fashion. they have moved into the construction and restaurant industries, and more to come to work cheap and destroy the wage base. >This unfounded piece of misinformation and madness should also end, to be replaced with logical reasoning. The issue of illegal immigration is not the problem, but rather, it is the result of a much deeper problem. Tweaking here and there, then and now, of an outdated and miserably dysfunctional system should be the thing of the past. Reforming the system comprehensively is necessary and inevitable.< Obama talks about taking away the incentives that bring them here so they wont sneak in, but I dont believe him for one moment because he wants to legalize them all. The other two clowns want to do the same. >Then who else would pass your standards? The three are there because the American populace has spoken. As the old saying goes: the voice of the people is the voice of God!<Tell me Two good reasons that these cheaters should be legalized and not the brothers, sisters and other relatives legally waiting in line to come here on petiton from us citizen first? In fact, give me ONE good reason, Chuck why this would be fair and ethical. Christian traditions do not reward bad behavior over the good behavior. >I’m not Chuck but I can give you three. 1) Comprehensive, 2) Immigration, and 3) Reform.< God does not say..."I am saving up a place for you in the heavens. Disrepect and covet your neighbors good fortune becuase I will reward you for this." Did he say "Satan for all your hard and dishonest work, I am going to make sure that you are rewarded"  >Matthew 26:28 “This is my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant, which will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven, do this in memory of me.â€<I get tired of this weak plea for why they need to become legal after all these years of just being here and driving down wages. >Fret no more. Your getting tired of it will soon end. CIR is bound to happen.< Go home.. get in line and come back in a legal way. Now that is ethical fair and christian. >Please say this to the freshly reorganized congressional lobby come January 2009. But beware, they may just smack you flat in the face!<Said it before and will say it again.... Comprehensive immigration reform should not include any aspect of Illegals. The entire reform should be about families of legal immigrants and solving current problems entangling them and getting spouses and/or loved ones here. ONly then after these problems are solved should any other legislation be talked about. >With due respect, please refer to the foregoing statements in bold.<
___________________________________________________________________
"The letter of the law is a sword that killeth; its intent is a spirit that giveth life."
|
| |
|
Power Member
|
OMG Jasmin! LOL Did she really? I missed that part LMAO!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U. |
| |
|
Power Member
|
Jasmin..was it you that she was trying to convert from Hillary to Obama when she switched? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too Mr S.U. |
| |
|
Power Member
|
quote: Originally RESPONSE posted by Rough Neighbor: BOLD quote: Originally RESPONSE 2 RESPONSE posted by 4now: RED
... >With due respect to Chuck to whom this original post was addressed, and my apologies to all non-Christians. I normally keep my faith personal and private, but I deviate this time for my statements to be relevant. RN<
No path to legalization. >Why, because you say so?< It is not ethical nor is it Christian. >Doing nothing is unethical and un-Christian.< Why? Becuase YOU say so?christianity is not built on lies and stealing. >"But the Lord so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son..." not for the sinless, but for the sinners.< In the opposite, the old and new testament have guidelines to take care of lies and stealing. >But also more on forgiveness, because ours is "a forgiving God, gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love." Then the parable of the Prodigal Son (or Lost Son) comes back to mind, the one that sets off to a distant land and squanders his share of his father’s wealth. But when he comes back a very poor man, his father welcomes him warmly with his excesses all but forgiven and forgotten, to the chagrin of his older loyal son. Then there’s that adulterous woman brought before Jesus by the Pharisees to be condemned by stoning. Wherefore, Jesus said to the crowd “any one of you without sin, cast the first stone.†They silently left. And Jesus said to the woman, “your sin is forgiven, sin no more.â€In the pontiff’s recent visit, immigration was his second topic before boarding the plane in Rome, and the first when he set foot in the White House. The country more than ever has been seeing the strongest multi-denominational advocacies in favor of Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Christians or not are one in petitioning the government to act.
| |
Add to del.icio.us
